What,I should pay a penny for the free shit I demand?????

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027595683

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 08:32 AM

Star Member Recursion (44,973 posts)

Just. Pass. A. Damn. VAT.
Just do it. Take the rich out of the equation. Just pass a VAT on retail spending and let all of us decide where the money goes.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is the only way. The rich won't care about spending if it's funded by a VAT.

You mutts think that only a few will lose for you to get your handouts.
Europe found out otherwise and is still going broke trying.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 08:59 AM

Star Member el_bryanto (10,828 posts)
3. Well they will still oppose regulation, won't they? They'd still oppose a strong labor department

or ERA? Taking the rich out of the equation seems like an odd goal; they are the ones who benefit most from society, shouldn't they pay their way?

Bryant

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:55 AM

Star Member annabanana (48,465 posts)
11. but

A VAT would take a much higher percentage out of a poor person's spending ability.. And THEY'RE the ones buying just the stuff they really need.

How is this not regressive?

So you should pay nothing?
Yeah,I know.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 12:23 PM

Gormy Cuss (30,636 posts)
15. VATs and other sales taxes are both regressive

Just raise tax rates for high earners, close most tax exemptions for businesses over a certain revenue, and raise the minimum income subject to taxation.

In other words "Gimme"

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 12:45 PM

Yavin4 (21,483 posts)
18. I agree with you 100%. I would add exemptions for groceries, some clothing, health care, and

education. That would protect the poor.

Response to Yavin4 (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 01:09 PM

Star Member SoCalNative (1,970 posts)
28. Except nothing is exempt under VAT

in the European model. There may be different percentages..i.e. in the Netherlands, food and drink are 6% while everything else pretty much is 21%.

Wow,FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE sure is expensive.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 01:04 PM

Star Member BlueJazz (25,248 posts)
27. I agree. Anybody making less than 15 bucks an hour gets a pass. from 15 up...sliding scale.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 01:27 PM

Star Member LonePirate (2,879 posts)
31. VATs are regressive taxes. We absolutely do not need one.

You expect me to pay? 

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 01:32 PM

Warpy (86,466 posts)
32. Let's not pass a VAT, it's too ****ing regressive

Instead, let's bring back the progressive income tax and let's index it to inflation this time so that people aren't being squeezed to death by bracket creep the next time some bunch of countries decide to jack up the price of a necessary commodity.

Tax ugliness...you will be at 200%

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 05:22 PM

LittleBlue (9,653 posts)
40. VAT is regressive. Burdens the poorest disproportionately

Also, what do we do with states that already have a sales tax? The poor would be crushed with both a state and local sales tax + VAT.

DOTY Rolex Randy Shaw said a good liberal should be happy to pay 50% of their income in taxes.
What is wrong with you?


Eat shit and die you worthless assholes.

[CollectivismMustDie]

LittleBlue (9,653 posts)
40. VAT is regressive. Burdens the poorest disproportionately

Oh bullshit.

The poorest and those making very little, benefit from the secondary market, where there are NO taxes, disproportionately. Ever heard of craigslist? Yard sales? Newspaper adds? Smart people looking to save and on lower or fixed incomes shop them, to a very large degree. People who are poor and low income that are not (D)Ummies, that is.

What you asshats call a VAT, should be the ONLY tax there is. And only at retail. It would energize the secondary market, improve understanding of the value of items, and then money, and then time. And it would give every last one of us the ability, when the idiots in government want to spend spend spend, to say "NO no no" and deprive government of our tax revenues in protest, by switching the bulk of our shopping to the secondary market in protest. I like to think of it as, "withdrawal of consent".

But the most important reason is that it would unite the taxpayer, unlike the commie bracket system we have now which is used as a tool of division, that causes idiots like you to rant about the rich.

 

CMD

[Carl]

Oh bullshit.

The poorest and those making very little, benefit from the secondary market, where there are NO taxes, disproportionately. Ever heard of craigslist? Yard sales? Newspaper adds? Smart people looking to save and on lower or fixed incomes shop them, to a very large degree. People who are poor and low income that are not (D)Ummies, that is.

What you asshats call a VAT, should be the ONLY tax there is. And only at retail. It would energize the secondary market, improve understanding of the value of items, and then money, and then time. And it would give every last one of us the ability, when the idiots in government want to spend spend spend, to say "NO no no" and deprive government of our tax revenues in protest, by switching the bulk of our shopping to the secondary market in protest. I like to think of it as, "withdrawal of consent".

But the most important reason is that it would unite the taxpayer, unlike the commie bracket system we have now which is used as a tool of division, that causes idiots like you to rant about the rich.

 

CMD

The full measure of the welfare state elevates those that partake well into the middle class.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Oh bullshit.

The poorest and those making very little, benefit from the secondary market, where there are NO taxes, disproportionately. Ever heard of craigslist? Yard sales? Newspaper adds? Smart people looking to save and on lower or fixed incomes shop them, to a very large degree. People who are poor and low income that are not (D)Ummies, that is.

What you asshats call a VAT, should be the ONLY tax there is. And only at retail. It would energize the secondary market, improve understanding of the value of items, and then money, and then time. And it would give every last one of us the ability, when the idiots in government want to spend spend spend, to say "NO no no" and deprive government of our tax revenues in protest, by switching the bulk of our shopping to the secondary market in protest. I like to think of it as, "withdrawal of consent".

But the most important reason is that it would unite the taxpayer, unlike the commie bracket system we have now which is used as a tool of division, that causes idiots like you to rant about the rich.

 

CMD

But then, the poor would complain that the "rich" aren't buying enough new stuff to pay the tax so the poor can get all their shit for free. Of course, a loss of revenue would lead to "moderate" charges for college, rationed health care (You're over 50? Fuggetaboutit), rationed medications, with ever increasing taxes and additional "fees" (it's not a tax, it's a fee), leading to more complaints about the filthy rich not buying enough.

Liberals disgust me.

[CollectivismMustDie]

But then, the poor would complain that the "rich" aren't buying enough new stuff to pay the tax so the poor can get all their shit for free. Of course, a loss of revenue would lead to "moderate" charges for college, rationed health care (You're over 50? Fuggetaboutit), rationed medications, with ever increasing taxes and additional "fees" (it's not a tax, it's a fee), leading to more complaints about the filthy rich not buying enough.

Liberals disgust me.

The marxist maxim "accuse others of what you do" is so ingrained in them, that its no longer just an accusation, its a belief. If primitives had a conscience like they claim to, it would be guilty as hell.


CMD

[Carl]

The marxist maxim "accuse others of what you do" is so ingrained in them, that its no longer just an accusation, its a belief. If primitives had a conscience like they claim to, it would be guilty as hell.


CMD

H5 +

[thundley4]

Warpy (86,466 posts)
32. Let's not pass a VAT, it's too ****ing regressive

Instead, let's bring back the progressive income tax and let's index it to inflation this time so that people aren't being squeezed to death by bracket creep the next time some bunch of countries decide to jack up the price of a necessary commodity.

Let's bring back the tax rates prior to Kennedy cutting them. It's time everyone paid a share.  Way back then, the good time tax rates on the wealthy that the DUmmies long for meant that everyone paid income taxes.

If you worked and made money, you paid an income tax. Too ****ing many people are getting a free ride.

[docstew]

Oh bullshit.

The poorest and those making very little, benefit from the secondary market, where there are NO taxes, disproportionately. Ever heard of craigslist? Yard sales? Newspaper adds? Smart people looking to save and on lower or fixed incomes shop them, to a very large degree. People who are poor and low income that are not (D)Ummies, that is.

What you asshats call a VAT, should be the ONLY tax there is. And only at retail. It would energize the secondary market, improve understanding of the value of items, and then money, and then time. And it would give every last one of us the ability, when the idiots in government want to spend spend spend, to say "NO no no" and deprive government of our tax revenues in protest, by switching the bulk of our shopping to the secondary market in protest. I like to think of it as, "withdrawal of consent".

But the most important reason is that it would unite the taxpayer, unlike the commie bracket system we have now which is used as a tool of division, that causes idiots like you to rant about the rich.

 

CMD

That tax system exists, it's called The Fair Tax.

[I_B_Perky]

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Feb 9, 2016, 12:45 PM

Yavin4 (21,483 posts)
18. I agree with you 100%. I would add exemptions for groceries, some clothing, health care, and

education. That would protect the poor.

That tax system exists, it's called The Fair Tax.

Yep. And since it was a right wing idea the dummies are against it.  I think it is a good idea myself. 

[Patriot Guard Rider]

That tax system exists, it's called The Fair Tax.

Which would require the rich to buy the shit the poor won't to support to poor in their quest to get free shit.

The secondary market would explode.

By the way, I'm a firm believer in the fair tax.

[CollectivismMustDie]

That tax system exists, it's called The Fair Tax.

I really wish we could make it happen, although I wouldn't be happy until we had ONLY that, and all other taxes were gone, state/local/property/etc. If someone gets disgusted enough they ought to be able to withdraw from participation as they see fit (withdrawing consent as one of the governed), without the threat of losing their property (assuming they own it 100 percent) for example. This is, I suspect, why taxation was put on income rather than retail spending initially, and the reason why property taxes were implemented. To disempower the ability of the individual, to withdraw consent and mean it.



CMD

[I_B_Perky]

The fair tax is actually fair. It requires everyone to pay their fair share... including dummies.  It would tax the imported goods the same as domestic goods. It levels the playing field which is a good thing. It will also make those working under the table to pay too.  The illegals would pay, the underground economy would pay, everyone would pay. It takes the power back from the government since they will no longer be able to use the tax code to favor anyone.  They want to raise taxes? They gonna do it on everyone and promptly lose their jobs.

 That right there is why the fair tax will never be enacted.

[CollectivismMustDie]

The fair tax is actually fair. It requires everyone to pay their fair share... including dummies.  It would tax the imported goods the same as domestic goods. It levels the playing field which is a good thing. It will also make those working under the table to pay too.  The illegals would pay, the underground economy would pay, everyone would pay. It takes the power back from the government since they will no longer be able to use the tax code to favor anyone.  They want to raise taxes? They gonna do it on everyone and promptly lose their jobs.

 That right there is why the fair tax will never be enacted.

Yep. As has been said by many people, many times, the government does not relinquish power once it has attained it.


CMD

[Ralph Wiggum]

DUmmies + discussing economics and or taxation = MISERABLE FAILURE