primitives discuss soaring murder rate in Yugo's paradise

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3672666

Oh my.

sabbat hunter  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 07:57 AM
Original message

Soaring murder rates in Venezuela
   
From the July 19th issue of The Economist.

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?stor...

ONE of Hugo Chávez’s lesser-known feats since taking over as Venezuela’s leader in 1999 is to have presided over a tripling of the annual homicide rate—and that’s according to the official statistics. Last year more than 13,000 people were killed in a country of 27m, producing a murder rate of 48 per 100,000, the second highest in the world (after El Salvador).....

Many homicides never get into the official statistics. They include those killed while supposedly “resisting arrest”. Yet in exchanges of fire between police and alleged criminals, 39 suspects are killed for every policeman, suggesting not much “resistance” is taking place. Another large (and growing) group of suspicious deaths excluded from the official data are those that have not yet been categorised—and probably never will be—though most are likely to result from murder. And then there are the jail murders. Every year, two in every 100 prisoners (more than one a day) are killed, but they are left out of the statistics, too.

Caracas is currently the second most dangerous city in the Americas (after San Salvador). Even by the official figures, the murder rate is 130 per 100,000; Mr Cedeño says the true figure is a staggering 166. One reason, he argues, is impunity. On average, only three of every 100 murderers are actually sentenced, he points out. Another is a presidential discourse that emphasises class warfare and has sometimes excused crime as a response to social inequality.....

So much for the paradise of Venezuela. If things are so great there why are people killing each other at record rates? Why has the murder rate tripled since Chavez took over?

Actually, only one primitive has discussed this thus far, the original poster.

The bonfire's brand-new, and I'll check it later today to see if Doug's ex-wife showed up to "explain" things to us.

[Carl]

I didn`t check the DU link but am sure once they all get their stories together and will touch the thread it will be blamed on those fighting against the socialist paradise.

[franksolich]

Oh my.

A primitive noticed this bonfire, and made an excuse for Yugo.

comtec  Donating Member  (760 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message

1. because the stats are being reported now?
   
just a thought, but maybe it's because the police are doing their job, and a more accurate picture is forming?

That's it so far, but as it's only 5:53 a.m. out in California, Doug's ex-wife hasn't wakened up yet so as to give a better excuse.

[DixieBelle]

^So jackbooted thugs doling out street justice = just doing their jobs? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

This blurb is telling -
"Another is a presidential discourse that emphasises class warfare and has sometimes excused crime as a response to social inequality....."

[HACKSAW]

Oh my.

A primitive noticed this bonfire, and made an excuse for Yugo.

comtec  Donating Member  (760 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message

1. because the stats are being reported now?
   
just a thought, but maybe it's because the police are doing their job, and a more accurate picture is forming?

That's it so far, but as it's only 5:53 a.m. out in California, Doug's ex-wife hasn't wakened up yet so as to give a better excuse.

It's too bad they don't defend the police in the USA as fervently as they do for some 3rd world communist shit hole.

[franksolich]

The lone star lion primitive's going to piss off Doug's ex-wife, when she wakes up and sees this bonfire:

texasleo  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message

2. Chavez is garbage.

[franksolich]

Doug's ex-wife must still be abed out there in California.

The latest, which isn't her:

marmar  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message

4. Yeah, the murder rate is ALL Chavez's fault.....F**king please.

Well now, if high crime in America is all George Bush's fault, certainly even higher crime in Venezuela is Yugo's fault.

[Tucker]

Waiting for Judy Lynn to check in. She and Doug's ex swap spit in their adoration of Hugo.

[franksolich]

Now this just in:

sabbat hunter  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4

5. no it isn't all his fault
   
But a lot of it is, because the rate has consistently gone up since he took office he is doing something wrong and everything isn't all fine and dandy in Venezuela like people here think. Crime is rampant, murder rates skyrocketing. If everything was such a paradise there, these things would not be happening.

[franksolich]

Oh my.

It's interesting, watching a primitive bonfire flare up.

Tierra_y_Libertad  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message

6. Well, if it's all Hugo's fault, the people will probably vote him out.
   
They could take an example from Happyland where the people have elected a mass murderer twice and the legislators, though they have the power to do so, have refused to remove him from office.

brook  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message

7. Statistics are interesting
   
frequently and easily manipulated to support an agenda.

In the early 60's, Venezuela was so dangerous that our home was surrounded by walls with jagged glass embedded along the top as a deterrent. Every section of the interior of the house was locked off from the other- to slow down an intruder.Homicide, rape and kidnapping were common enough that our husbands and fathers manned armed patrols in our area at night. American companies offered "danger pay" as an incentive to work there.

Violence is not new there.

wvbygod  Donating Member  (598 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message

8. Nothing to see here
   
The goalpost will catch up with the politics soon.

madokie  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #8

9. I vote never will that goal post stop
   
If it is true then I would ask someone look into what our cia special ops is doing. Its them, not Chavaz I worry about.

JNelson6563  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:50 AM
Response to Original message

10. I wonder
   
If Chavez would get wiht the program, sell his country's natural resources out to corporate interests as well as all the other demands of the IMF, would this stuff stop?

Damn that asshole for not selling his people to eternal servitude to the corporate giants of the world. Because of that we have to keep coming up with new ways to stir up unrest and coup attempts. That bastard!

Julie--marveling at how many DUers swallow corporate media pap

No Doug's ex-wife there yet, though.

Maybe she's having a coffee latte at Starbucks, and hasn't been on Skins's island yet this morning.

[Carl]

Not in the least bit surprising is it.
President Bush is to blame for everything under the sun but a tin pot despot can do no wrong as another country follows the inevitable chaos brought about by socialism/communisim.

[PatriotGame]

Another is a presidential discourse that emphasises class warfare and has sometimes excused crime as a response to social inequality.....

Just like the old age hippies and their new age anarchist offspring burning down your home because it is not green enough.
There is only one way to stop this you know, remove those that create this national victimized class warfare.
In this nation, that would be the liberals.

[PatriotGame]

comtec  Donating Member  (760 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message

1. because the stats are being reported now?
   
just a thought, but maybe it's because the police are doing their job, and a more accurate picture is forming?

Someone needs to tell this to moonbat "reporter" in Miami and his supporters at the DUmp.

[Servonaut]

Here you go Frank 

sfexpat2000  (1000+ posts)       Fri Jul-25-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. If you view those statistics in a vacuum.
 Edited on Fri Jul-25-08 01:04 PM by sfexpat2000
But if you take into account that the United States continues its effort at destabilizing Venezuela both directly and by proxy via Colombia, the stats begin to make sense.

USAID has been funding student violence that, coincidentally, the opposition can then point to as evidence that Chavez is soft on crime. Sound familiar? (I think the same group has been or is being kicked out of Peru for pulling the same stuff there.) And of course there's the Colombian paramilitaries that were busted,iirc, in safehouses in Caracas.

Crime is a problem in Venezuela and the United States wants to make sure it stays that way. This piece in the Economist reads as if it were written by (or for) the oligarchs who oppose Chavez because it seems to have all their talking points without considering the reality on the ground at all. Interesting.

sabbat hunter (1000+ posts)       Fri Jul-25-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. We aren't talking about
 student violence, this crime originates in the slums of Caracas. Similar violence happens in San Salvador, a country that out current government backs to the fullest (it is a right wing government).


A commonality between the two is rampant poverty.

sfexpat2000  (1000+ posts)       Fri Jul-25-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. There is no distinction in the stats, is there?
 Now, El Salvador much more closely fits the picture you paint. There is no concern for the people there and the country's owners have to live in cages and go about with armed guards to protect themselves from the poor. El Salvador lags behind all the other countries in the region on the human development index (or did,, in 2005) whereas indicators for Venezuela like food security just steadity improve. There is no real comparison.

Food security, all by itself, is being threatened in Latin America just as it is here. The Andean aligned counties have gone to local strategies where El Salvador and Colombia are still taking a global strategy that dovetails with BushCo economics. Pobre El Salvador y Colombia.

Here, fyi, is a report that documents the lowering poverty rate in Venezuela along with a long list of misrepresentations in the American press. It's hosted at the Venezuela government site but was done by the Center for Economic Policy and Research.

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/ceprpov.htm

 


 

[franksolich]

Oh my.

anonymous171  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message

12. It's all the capitalists' fault!
   
Chavez is too busy yelling at Bush to care about his people. Not that yelling at Bush isn't a good thing to do, but sometimes there are more important things to do (like improve the conditions in your own country.)

Thanks, Servonaut, for bringing Doug's ex-wife's "explanation" over here; after mid-morning, I sort of got tired waiting for her to show up, and wandered away.

[Servonaut]

Oh my.

anonymous171  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message

12. It's all the capitalists' fault!
   
Chavez is too busy yelling at Bush to care about his people. Not that yelling at Bush isn't a good thing to do, but sometimes there are more important things to do (like improve the conditions in your own country.)

Thanks, Servonaut, for bringing Doug's ex-wife's "explanation" over here; after mid-morning, I sort of got tired waiting for her to show up, and wandered away.

Your Welcome Sir.  I just got home from work, saw your post and figured I'd go DUmpter diving.   

[Bondai]

It's a CIA plot cooked up by Bush and his minions of death.....[/dummie mode off]

[USA4ME]

sfexpat2000

17. There is no distinction in the stats, is there?

Now, El Salvador much more closely fits the picture you paint. There is no concern for the people there ....

And, of course, the opposite is that Chavez *does* care for the people.

When one has convinced themselves that Chavez cares about something other than his own power, then they're beyond believing the truth about the situation.

.

[dandi]

sfexpat2000  (1000+ posts)       Fri Jul-25-08 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. If you view those statistics in a vacuum.
 Edited on Fri Jul-25-08 01:04 PM by sfexpat2000
But if you take into account that the United States continues its effort at destabilizing Venezuela both directly and by proxy via Colombia, the stats begin to make sense.

USAID has been funding student violence that, coincidentally, the opposition can then point to as evidence that Chavez is soft on crime. Sound familiar? (I think the same group has been or is being kicked out of Peru for pulling the same stuff there.) And of course there's the Colombian paramilitaries that were busted,iirc, in safehouses in Caracas.

Crime is a problem in Venezuela and the United States wants to make sure it stays that way. This piece in the Economist reads as if it were written by (or for) the oligarchs who oppose Chavez because it seems to have all their talking points without considering the reality on the ground at all. Interesting.

Unfreakingbelievable. You can almost set your watch by it. It's always everyone else's fault but Hugo.

Ya got a little something on your chin there, sexlesspat.

[dandi]

madokie  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #8

9.  If it is true then I would ask someone look into what our cia special ops is doing. Its them, not Chavaz I worry about.

Then get the **** out.