Nadin on Common Core.

[dutch508]

I am only copying the Nadin because all the rest of the DUmpmonkiez don't matter. Nadin GETS. IT.

Why can't you?

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025118167

On common Core
I hate to even go there but...the concept of Common Core was a good one.

I don't know if any of you remember where it came from. So I will remind you...military brats. A common problem these kids had (and to a point still do) is that if parents were transferred from let's say Pensacola Fl, to oh San Diego, unless the kids staid within the military system, which is minuscule, they could lose grade levels, because they were going from a poorly performing school system to San Diego Unified, of Poway which were better If they went the other way, they could gain grade levels.

So the concept was, like many other countries around the world, that the kids would have to learn the same material if they were in let's say third grade.

I know it has become a punching bag and IMO it is not the concept that is the problem. At a high policy level that idea is not bad. This level of consistency is good. The problem is implementation. What some call low policy level.

We literally have a high level policy that was needed, implemented at a mid level in a way to benefit the testing industry. I don't know how many here remember Neil Bush? Remember what he does these days? Oh yeah he develops testing materials. That is where the charges of oligarchy comes in. Who else is involved in testing? Bill Gates, who also has enough money to be a kingmaker.

And like common core there are other examples. The high level intent is not that bad. It is, as they say, in the details.

IMO common core not just needs a top bottom review, but the testing is at the very least excessive. I would not mind getting rid of most of it...hey, it works for Norway, which has a version of national educational policy.

Some of the local implementation is ok. At least locally it now includes creative and critical thinking. Though this is not at the heart...testing is. See the problem?

The other problem is the inherent distrust of government. I hear it from both parents and candidates...local control...argle, bargle, local control...get rid of the DOE.

And why am I bothering to post this? This is the kind of actual policy nuance that many discussions lack, and not just here, even with candidates. At times even at the presidential level...(yes Perry I am looking at you, same goes for Ted Cruz, and I could include Rahm Emanuel and Cuomo on this) given the nature of media they run on ideology, not policy. And that...is a problem.

Argle Bargle.

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
4. And that us what the emphasis in creative thinking at San Diego Unified does

And we are talking a system that has gone from pedestrian performance under three really bad chief administrators to one under a young, vibrant one that is emphasizing creative thinking.

I know you hate it...but at a high policy level it is not a bad idea, in fact it is a very good idea. It is at the mid level policy and implementation where reviews need to happen. This was one of the defects of it. The only evaluation mechanism is testing, and that is a problem.

Norway, for comparison, has very little testing, if any..all the way to PhD. They have an extremely high performance system, with at times PhDs teaching HS physics. Pay is also conducive to attracting those teachers. We do not attract that caliber as a general matter.

We also have another problem, that is economic segregation. Until we deal with that, in a serious manner...

 

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
8. In other places around the world they would not have waited that long

To find out what the issue is.

I do not know the specifics of your son, but in general we have a series of implementation, not high policy issues, that are the serious problem.

I will not ask where you live, but taking a stab in the dark, if your school is in the wrong side of the tracks, or just in a poorer area, the resources are not there. This is a problem the local administration is trying hard to deal with (and somewhat successfully, still La Jolla High has more money than oh Martin Luther in South East...they have a long way to go but at least now they admit they have the issue...they denied that for decades)

By the way, you have valid reasons to hate it. I do not know if going over your school principal and demanding the services directly from the school board will work. At times, I have no idea of your particulars beyond what you have posted here, school boards order the school system to both test to find out the educational issues and pay for tutoring like Silvan.

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
11. Then your child would be in a special needs class

Sorry, I assumed ADD or other in the spectrum.

The difference is, in the US there is a certain level of shame and warehousing. In other countries there is adaptation and education and kids in the Autism disorder are considered valuable. (I am talking Europe, not Lat Am, where this does not even exist as a recognized issue)

What you are fighting is not common core, but social attitudes vs the disabled. This is a society wide issue, not just school related.

Ask the administration, I am as serious as a heart attack, about tutoring 

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
23. Ok I will go public with this.
Look, I get the issue. I have ADD. I know how kids in the spectrum learn differently. I went to school in another country where yes, I struggled. You think school is hard here, no it is not. It really is not.

When I went to school there was no ADD or autism or any of that recognized. Back in the 70s I was one of the first lab rats to get Ritalin. It helped by the way.

I learned of my diagnosis at 27, when I was struggling to finish a Masters in history. You think school is hard? Wait for college. I mean this, schools these days have a lot more help than they used to, but you need to ask. And this change at a policy level will not stop on account of your son.

But I have walked in those shoes...I failed, and had to take special tests for both math (it was pre calc in what in the US would be Second year HS, and Physics. No they were not AP, we did not that have that. They were part of the core curriculum mandated by the National University. It was a hell of a blow to my self esteem. But I am sure your son, with the help he needs, can succeed.

On the bright side I repeated Chem 101 in college (and still struggled, dysgraphia and a mild displacement of numbers is just great). I know you do not want to hear this. And I will understand if you put me on ignore...but if we had no common core your son would still have similar issues. States have had set achievement goals for decades. Depending on the state the Federal targets were either similar, California, under, Massachusetts, or well above, insert state here in the Deep South.

So I will ask, if CC was not here...who would be to blame? 

 

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
29. Then consider home schooling

Because the issue is not Common Core, those are state goals of what a child needs to learn at grade level... they existed before Common Core, California for example, has had state minimum goals for decades, before Reagan was governor even. I am serious. The issue you have is with curriculum implementation. and some implementation and assessment is well, to put it bluntly...lousy

I have walked those shoes. Been there get it. When your son goes to college there are state minimum mandates as well for both community colleges and four year colleges. It is part of the credentialing, certification of programs. They came to be well...before Common Core. Common Core is a big picture policy matter. Curriculum is the implementation of those mandates. And a school that receives state/federal funds has to meet those teaching goals. It is the law. So there is no way they are following it for the English curricula, but not Math. If they are doing that, they are violating state and federal law.

What Common Core does at a policy level is take standards and make then national, so a kid going to school in Pensacola is learning multiplication at the same grade level as a kid in San Diego. Believe it or not...how school districts meet the actual goal is up to each district. Which is actually, IMO, a weakness. But it is doing nationally what states used to do. San Diego kids are supposed to learn the same things at grade as kids in San Jose, it's been the law for decades. Now they want this to be national regardless of where the kid is going to school.

As to funding yes, it matters. We don't invest enough in schools. That is not Common Core...it is resource allocation and at a very large picture level, DOE gets less than 5% of the Federal budget...DOD gets 57%. And it depends on your state as to how much your state spends. If you are in a donor state you are likely not seeing one red cent from the Federal Dept. of Education budget. If you are on a taker state then you are.

Internally in states some wealthier counties are also donor counties, sending money for poorer counties, through the state General Fund, or whatever nomenclature the state uses. But your local school is getting most of your school money from your mostly local property taxes. Rich cities have more money than depressed areas. IMO, and that of experts this also leads to economic and academic segregation.

Sorry, for the long explanation, but if you really need to be angry at anybody, it is whoever is developing the curricula locally and implementing it and you should ask, funds should be there, for tutors.

I am trying seriously to help. I want your son to succeed, but the big picture policy is not the issue, it is the implementation of the policy at the local level. That has been a problem well before Common Core. Hell, San Diego Unified and Poway, they share borders, do not share the same teaching material. Did I mention they are right besides each other? Poway is better than San Diego at carrying out the high level policy. But we all are asking for how long incidentally. It is...a superintendent and money issue.

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
36. I am not arguing

I can present you facts. I am not surprised teachers are blaming CC for their own lousy, or more likely their own district lousy implementation. See, I don't blame the teachers, but they are also blaming the wrong horse and I am sure they used to blame state goals too. I know one of our veteran teachers admitted as much in a moment of candor. It is much easier than fighting her management. Which incidentally, I get...it is at times next to impossible.

And yes, it is a money issue...but it is also an implementation issue and that is not done by the Department of Education at either the Feds or State level. That is the way it actually is. So you can be in the trenches all you want, blaming the wrong horse ain't gonna help. But keep at it, I will now ignore anything you write on this subject. Trying to point you in the right direction is not going to work, so will not waste my time any longer. I wish you luck though, because you will need it.

 
 
**** you. I give you facts and you JUST. DON'T. GET. IT!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Nadin on Common Core.

So that's the newest street name for crack, is it?

[franksolich]

Oh. Good. God.

The cousin's so full of it surely she's about ready to burst.

[Big Dog]

Oh. Good. God.

The cousin's so full of it surely she's about ready to burst.

gNads just entered the 2014 DOTY race. She had a weak first half, so she must double down on the DUmmitude.

[Wineslob]

Oh. Good. God.

The cousin's so full of it surely she's about ready to burst.

+1

[Rebel]

She wishes she didn't know all this shit.

[franksolich]

+1

I didn't base my evaluation on only what dutch508 copied-and-pasted for here.

I went to the link and read the whole thing in the original, hoping to see some bullies there (they weren't), and having read the whole entire thread, I'm now more than ever convinced the cousin's bloated to where she surely must explode soon.

[franksolich]

And why am I bothering to post this?

Yeah, nadin, why did you bother?

[Gina]

Freaking Frack!  Reading one of her long posts makes me really think I can solve one of those common core problems 

[franksolich]

Freaking Frack!  Reading one of her long posts makes me really think I can solve one of those common core problems 

I dunno why the cousin's interested in what must be an esoteric issue for those with no vested interest (i.e., children) in public education.

nadin's got an opinion--and rather, uh, unusual insight--in everything.

Nothing escapes her; if it's there, she has an opinion on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if some day the cousin talks about dog-sledding.

[thundley4]

I don't know if any of you remember where it came from. So I will remind you...military brats.

 

Bullshirt. It was Bill Gates.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/63870

[GOBUCKS]

nadin's deep knowledge of education policy is an offshoot of her study of exploding wind turbines.

There's one glaring difference.

When she and Crazy Miriam write about exploding windmills, it's boring but entertaining.

nadin's analysis of education is simply boring.

One thing is clear:

I repeated Chem 101 in college and still struggled, dysgraphia

She's telling the truth about dysgraphia - a learning disability that affects writing and coherence.

Before the educational system went to liberal hell, we called that "stupid".

[Gina]

 

[67 Rover]

nadinbrzezinski (134,834 posts)
23. Ok I will go public with this.
Look, I get the issue. I have ADD. I know how kids in the spectrum learn differently. I went to school in another country where yes, I struggled. You think school is hard here, no it is not. It really is not.

When I went to school there was no ADD or autism or any of that recognized. Back in the 70s I was one of the first lab rats to get Ritalin. It helped by the way.

Ritalin has been around since the 50's.

[Gina]

Ritalin has been around since the 50's.

gNads wishes she did know that 

[67 Rover]

gNads wishes she did know that 

She got the placebo.

[obumazombie]

She wishes she didn't know all this shit.

Emphasis on the sugar honey ice tea.

[franksolich]

She's telling the truth about dysgraphia - a learning disability that affects writing and coherence.

Before the educational system went to liberal hell, we called that "stupid".

You know, I always wondered about something.

These days, they break things down into 2,893 different problems, or conditions, and try to "treat" each individual one.

As you know, and it gives me no pain to admit it, I was born what's medically defined as an "environmental accident;" born without ears and hearing, because of pre-birth exposure to Accutane.

There's a whole lot more to it than that, though.  The propensity for social problems, behaviorial problems, learning problems, emotional problems, speech problems, perceptual problems, and in theory, we're uneducable.  We're expected to be able only to sit on our asses in a comfortable recliner in the parlor-car of the disability gravy-train.

Although I recall my childhood and adolescence with nothing but fondness and gratitude, I have reasons to believe that, in reality, I was quite a bit of trouble for those involved in raising me.  A whole bundle of problems.

But in hindsight, when thinking of all those who surrounded me, it seems there was this attitude, "Just leave it alone; he'll grow out of it."

And damn, they were right.

I'll bet nearly all that ailed the cousin in her early years would've gradually gone away, evaporated, if she didn't have so many people around her trying to interfere with, and manipulate, her growth into maturity.

I will caution, though; never having been a parent, I'm not sure it's easy to "leave things alone, to take care of themselves on their own, with time."  But even if it's not easy, it's possible, and it's the best remedy of all. 

[98ZJUSMC]

So that's the newest street name for crack, is it?

[98ZJUSMC]

I went to the link and read the whole thing in the original,

Is that humanly possible?

Freaking Frack!  Reading one of her long posts makes me really think I can solve one of those common core problems 

  True, the wear and tear on the brain would be equal.

[formerlurker]

That was honest to cripe the most painful thing I have read from her to date.

Nads - you are a moron.  You couldn't define "local control" if your life depended on it.

There is nothing good about national standards.  NOTHING.

Students with disabilities are not better off in Europe.  That you just pulled out your ass. 

[GOBUCKS]

That was honest to cripe the most painful thing I have read from her to date.

Well, then, you haven't seen this:

Fri Jun 20, 2014, 10:27 PM
nadinbrzezinski (134,922 posts)

From my notes on Picketty's Capital in the Twenty First Century


Broadly speaking, it was the wars of the twentieth century that wiped away the past to create the illusion that capitalism had been structurally transformed.


Piketty, Thomas (2014-03-10). Capital in the Twenty-First Century (p. 118). Harvard University Press. Kindle Edition.

This is a fascinating observation since it sets the table for another period of social instability. This is not a happy thought since we have to add climate change and all that to the story. It is also one that many of us do suspect to be the case.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025129554

      

[formerlurker]

Well, then, you haven't seen this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025129554

I stand corrected.

nadinbrzezinski
4. I know that I will have to try to finish this in the weekend
but it is not an easy read.

Almost as bad as city budgets

Can we just retire this comment Nads?  The budget you claim to have analyzed was hardly raw numbers or the presentation of a zero-based budget.  It was line item appropriations with full narratives that you cut/paste and paraphrased.

Mmmkay?


 

[franksolich]

Can we just retire this comment Nads?  The budget you claim to have analyzed was hardly raw numbers or the presentation of a zero-based budget.  It was line item appropriations with full narratives that you cut/paste and paraphrased.

Mmmkay?

But it's a good example of the way the cousin operates.

She makes a trivial, inconsequentlal thing look as if it's difficult or long or complicated or important, but she's doing it as a favor, a good deed, for the rest of us, so we don't have to.

nadin wants to be appreciated for all the sacrifices she makes for us.

[obumazombie]

But it's a good example of the way the cousin operates.

She makes a trivial, inconsequentlal thing look as if it's difficult or long or complicated or important, but she's doing it as a favor, a good deed, for the rest of us, so we don't have to.

nadin wants to be appreciated for all the sacrifices she makes for us.

Is there a category of DOTY for the most entertaining primitive measured by the quality and quantity of posts about them here at the cave ? If not, maybe there should be one. We would already have a frontrunner.