"How Long Did We Leave Troops In Japan/Germany?"

[dutch508]

If you don't want to read the stupidity I will paraphrase: VWRC Talkingpoint say we left troops in NAZI Germany and Japan after WWII to 'stabilize' those countries. No we didn't.

TrollBuster9090 (2,136 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025021338

Dumbass Neocon Talking Point of the Week: "How Long Did We Leave Troops In Japan/Germany?"
Okay, as soon as President Obama announced that all troops would be out of Afghanistan by the end of the year, I heard the same talking point appear on several different 'panel' discussions, simultaneously. So, I figure it must have been circulated in a right-wing talking points bulletin. Since it's a particularly STUPID talking point, I can't believe they're actually running with it.

Predictably, it goes something like this. A right winger on the panel will say it's too soon for us to leave, followed by a left winger saying "well how long SHOULD we stay," followed by the right wing talking point "How long did we leave troops in Japan and Germany after WWII?" (In fact, I just saw Charles "Dracula" Krauthhammer say exactly that. That Japan and Germany were the best examples of the US Army 'stabilizing' a country after a war, and we left troops there for over 50 years. US troops are STILL in Germany.)

You can see it appear here, at the 6:30 mark, for example:
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/05/bloody-bill-kristol-loses-his-mind-over


Uh...is nobody going to call them on this dumbass talking point? Hello: We did NOT leave troops in Germany and Japan (or Korea) to STABILIZE THE COUNTRY, you idiots. We occupied those countries after WWII, and the process of stabilization was over in a matter of MONTHS. We then proceeded to LEAVE troops there for the next 50 years as a deterrent to the SOVIET UNION. It had absolutely nothing to do with stabilizing those countries.
I'm surprised the only person to call a neocon on this bullshit talking point was Peter Beinart, who called William "The Bloody" Kristol on it on Crossfire, and even HE didn't do a particularly good job of it.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/05/bloody-bill-kristol-loses-his-mind-over 

The process of stabilization and rebuilding took years if not decades until both Germany and Japan are now- from bombed out shells in 1945- leaders in industry and economics on the world stage. Both have no large military and depended on the US and NATO for stability to rebuild, with our help.

randys1 (1,064 posts)  (<----------- is troll )

1. The liars dont need to have coherent talking points, remember who the target is

The dumbest american is the one who watches fox news...think about it

The talking point could be

Bleb, gorn to4 dakhta nachos, Obama bad...and they would agree

This, below, is almost the must stupid thing I have ever read on DU.

all american girl (454 posts)
3. OK, someone needs to remind these dumbasses that Germany and Japan are not war zones

My husband is in the Army and we have lived in both Germany and Japan. I have also been to Korea (girls trip  ). Never did I feel like I was in a war zone....because it isn't. I can't tolerate stupidity.

 


Berlin, 1945



Tokyo, 1945

TrollBuster9090 (2,136 posts)
4. Given that neocons get most of their world view from watching Ronald Reagan acting in old WWII

movies on late night TV, it wouldn't surprise me if they DID think Germany is still a war zone. (Nice user icon, btw. I'm a big fan of Melies.)

The reason that Berlin and Tokyo are, today, modern cities is because we rebuilt those nations after WWII.

[JohnnyReb]

Mere months, huh.....then why did we waste all that money on "The Marshall Plan"?

ETA: .....and "The Berlin Airlift"?

[Dori]

From Wiki

The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany was signed in Moscow, USSR, on 12 September 1990, and it paved the way for German reunification on 3 October 1990.

Under the terms of the treaty, the Four Powers renounced all rights they formerly held in Germany, including in regard to the city of Berlin. As a result, the united Germany would become fully sovereign on 15 March 1991, with Berlin as its capital. It would be free to make and belong to alliances, and without any foreign influence in its politics. All Soviet forces were to leave Germany by the end of 1994. Before the Soviets withdrew, Germany would only deploy territorial defense units to areas where Soviet troops were stationed. After the Soviets withdrew, the Germans could freely deploy troops in those areas, with the exception of nuclear weapons. During the duration of the Soviet presence, Allied troops would remain stationed in Berlin upon Germany's request.

There are still a couple of dozen U.S. military and NATO installations in Germany.

[I_B_Perky]

Well dummie... maybe if we had waged total war on Iraq and Afghanistan, like we did in WW2 to Germany and Japan, their civilian population would be ready to cede defeat and accept a different form of government. At the very least there would have been a lot less muzzies wanting to be terrorists.

Instead we had ROE's and you libs worrying to death about civilian casualties hamstringing the military. This is what you get when you go to war and do not wage it totally. Typical lib policy... never works.

[Airwolf]

Somebody needs to remind those morons that Korea is a war zone. They signed a cease fire agreement not a peace treaty.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The reasons we stayed in each of them morphed as the years went by.  Our immediate goal of stabilizing them took a minimum of ten years, arguably up to 20.  The German armed forces were reconstituted in the mid-50s, around the time the surviving 10% of Germany's WW2 POWs held by the Soviet Union were finally returned to her.  After the first 10 years, both countries still faced threats of internal Communist subversion, if no longer existential threats, but the main reason for us staying was more to counterweight external Communist threats on a regional basis rather than to back up the national governments of each former adversary.

Of course, that same need for basing rights to exert regional influence and suppress our biggest threats applies just as much to the CENTCOM area of operations now, as it did to the EUCOM or PACOM areas back in the depths of the Cold War.

[I_B_Perky]

The reasons we stayed in each of them morphed as the years went by.  Our immediate goal of stabilizing them took a minimum of ten years, arguably up to 20.  The German armed forces were reconstituted in the mid-50s, around the time the surviving 10% of Germany's WW2 POWs held by the Soviet Union were finally returned to her.  After the first 10 years, both countries still faced threats of internal Communist subversion, if no longer existential threats, but the main reason for us staying was more to counterweight external Communist threats on a regional basis rather than to back up the national governments of each former adversary.

Of course, that same need for basing rights to exert regional influence and suppress our biggest threats applies just as much to the CENTCOM area of operations now, as it did to the EUCOM or PACOM areas back in the depths of the Cold War.

Quit confusing the dummies with facts, DAT.  It don't jibe with their worldview.   

[98ZJUSMC]

Mere months, huh.....then why did we waste all that money on "The Marshall Plan"?

ETA: .....and "The Berlin Airlift"?

Nuh-uh.  You VRWCwInGnUtZ!!1!! always think Obama's going to declare Marshall Law.  What wurld do you live in?

/[(D)ipshit]

[98ZJUSMC]

Somebody needs to remind those morons that Korea is a war zone. They signed a cease fire agreement not a peace treaty.

Damn right it is and in the late 70's, the ROKs were deadly force serious about it.  Sandbagged bunkers between the runways and on the perimeter.  Sentry towers with locked and loaded .30 LMGs and guard posts with M-2 Carbines ready to spew, if you didn't know the password.

<<<Found out one night walking back from the radar site.  It was only that he recognized us that he didn't open up.  We were obviously American Marines.

And this wasn't on the DMZ (D)Umbasses.  Just a forward rural airbase (K-58).

[Airwolf]

Damn right it is and in the late 70's, the ROKs were deadly force serious about it.  Sandbagged bunkers between the runways and on the perimeter.  Sentry towers with locked and loaded .30 LMGs and guard posts with M-2 Carbines ready to spew, if you didn't know the password.

<<<Found out one night walking back from the radar site.  It was only that he recognized us that he didn't open up.  We were obviously American Marines.

And this wasn't on the DMZ (D)Umbasses.  Just a forward rural airbase (K-58).

Had something similar happen to my company one time when we left late from training for SQT test. It was getting about 10:30 pm and the trucks we were riding in ran into a ROK roadblock. Didn't care much for the fact they automatically open the back of the truck and we see gun barrels pointed at us with live rounds in them

[GOBUCKS]

Damn right it is and in the late 70's, the ROKs were deadly force serious about it.  Sandbagged bunkers between the runways and on the perimeter.  Sentry towers with locked and loaded .30 LMGs and guard posts with M-2 Carbines ready to spew, if you didn't know the password.

Years ago I played golf at a very nice club in Seoul.

All over the course there were coils of steel cable in the rough.

Our host said at night the cable was stretched across the fairways to prevent glider landings in case of invasion.

It gave you a creepy feeling to realize how close those Nork savages were.

[Chris_]

But did it improve your game?

[GOBUCKS]

But did it improve your game?

No, but I was happy to play another eighteen in the face of the enemy.

Another oddity, for an American, was that all the caddies were women.

[txradioguy]

all american girl (454 posts)
3. OK, someone needs to remind these dumbasses that Germany and Japan are not war zones

My husband is in the Army and we have lived in both Germany and Japan. I have also been to Korea (girls trip  ). Never did I feel like I was in a war zone....because it isn't. I can't tolerate stupidity.

Then you must be extremely intolerant of yourself.  Korea is STILL a war zone you twit.  There's only a cease fire keeping the two sides from all out war...again.

We did NOT leave troops in Germany and Japan (or Korea) to STABILIZE THE COUNTRY, you idiots. We occupied those countries after WWII, and the process of stabilization was over in a matter of MONTHS. We then proceeded to LEAVE troops there for the next 50 years as a deterrent to the SOVIET UNION. It had absolutely nothing to do with stabilizing those countries.

So you're saying the Marshall Plan was a failure?  OR that we should have left the entire country of Germany to the Communists?