Desperate defense of "3 boo-boos and collect an heiress" Kerry's "man-up" remark

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

phleshdef (9,438 posts)

"Man up" is not sexist. Its just a figure of speech. It doesn't denigrate women.
 

Man up owes its early popularization to another American sport: football, where it originally had a more technical meaning relating to man-to-man pass defense. In 1985, for example, the New York Jets head coach Joe Walton praised the work of his defensive coordinator to The Times: “They’re playing the kind of defense that I wanted and that Bud Carson teaches — aggressive, man up, getting after it, hustling all over the field.” A year before that, a high-school coach in Texas previewed a coming game for the local paper, The Baytown Sun, by saying, “We’re expecting them to use an eight-man front with their secondary manning up on us.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/magazine/05FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0

This is one of those things where people are looking way too hard for something to be angry over. Its a stupid hill to die on and for anyone sincerely interested in women's rights issues, its a case of choosing your battles very unwisely.

I consider myself a strong advocate for women's rights. I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-equal pay for equal work. I'm deeply concerned about issues where women tend to be the disproportionate victims, whether it be rape, domestic abuse, sexual trafficking/sexual slavery and many other things where women are getting a raw deal... not just in this country but all over the globe. These are worthy battles. These are real problems that deserve our full attention.

In terms of our own country, the conservative side of American political ideology would love to subjugate women beneath men as much as possible. They see placing women on equal footing economically, socially and in positions of leadership as a threat to the way they think people should live. We should be fighting that and not be getting twisted in knots over trivial figures of speech or the fact that some woman is looking "sexy" on a magazine cover.

I just think this kind of stuff makes us all look rather silly and it makes it harder to take us serious and does no justice when it comes to fighting the relevant, important, impactful issues regarding women and the shitty things they have to put up with.

MineralMan (64,035 posts)

1. Actually, it is exactly a sexist figure of speech.

It, and "grow a pair" are about as sexist as it goes. It's sexist by the very words it uses.

I think you are incorrect.

It depends on which pair you're growing, I'd think.





I dunno. Maybe it's just me.

Brickbat (15,955 posts)

5. Actually, it's pretty sexist in that it upholds binary gender roles.

Placing women on equal footing economically, socially and in positions of leadership means dropping phrases such as "man up" from your vocabulary. A woman in a board room who is told to "man up" during the course of a corporate merger would pretty much be a great example of a shitty thing she would have to put up with.

However, shall humanity continue on with binary gender roles?

unblock (25,037 posts)

16. one could argue that tactically this isn't worth fighting about, but you can't deny it's sexist.

it overtly assigns an behavioral expectation to one gender where gender isn't and shouldn't be relevant. it's transparently sexist. the maleness of the word "man" is right there for everyone to read or hear.

something words or phrases that are, strictly speaking, sexist, arguable are invisibly so to most people, e.g., "seminal" as in, "this great book was the author's seminal work, and it created an entire new branch of literature." most people would be oblivious to the maleness of the word "seminal" in this context, so a case could more easily be made for ignoring the technically sexist nature of the word.

not so for "man up". not even close.

Remember how a few weeks ago these people were salivating for a civil war?

Laelth (19,893 posts)

21. No, it doesn't denigrate women.

It may, however, reinforce patriarchy (and there might be a good reason for that).

The fact that men are taught "big boys don't cry" or to "man up" is a social construct. That's learned behavior, passed down from mothers to their sons for centuries (if not millennia). And there's probably a good reason for that. My mother wasn't stupid, and I refuse to believe that mothers (for centuries) have been stupid. They taught their male children that "big boys don't cry" and to "man up" for a long time because they knew that their boys needed love and a mate, and they knew that most women would not choose a "wimp" as a sexual partner, so they taught their boys to be "strong" and to repress their emotions. That makes good, biological sense to me.

It's mothers who teach their boys not to express emotion (and they do so for very good reasons--unless you want to argue that most mothers are stupid, and I refuse to believe that).

-Laelth

Yeah, who wouldn't want a society engineered by RedGash and ScreechBeyond?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020007



pussies

[thundley4]

Brickbat (15,955 posts)

5. Actually, it's pretty sexist in that it upholds binary gender roles.

Placing women on equal footing economically, socially and in positions of leadership means dropping phrases such as "man up" from your vocabulary. A woman in a board room who is told to "man up" during the course of a corporate merger would pretty much be a great example of a shitty thing she would have to put up with.

What's wrong with separate but equal terms for the genders?  Use man up for men, and use "put your big girl panties on" for women and liberal males.

[Chris_]

Never mind that Kerry is incompetent as Secretary of State, let's quibble about some words because a bunch of harridans on the internet feel offended.

[FlaGator]

These people need to seriously man up

[USA4ME]

Laelth

My mother wasn't stupid

Now that would almost be debate worthy.

Let's see, if Laelth is an example of her handiwork, then I've gotta go with Yes, she was stupid.

Hey, I said "almost."

.

[Chris_]

What's wrong with separate but equal terms for the genders?  Use man up for men, and use "put your big girl panties on" for women and liberal males.

The word 'panties' is now offensive.  Didn't you get the memo?

[fatboy]

MineralMan (64,035 posts)

1. Actually, it is exactly a sexist figure of speech.

It, and "grow a pair" are about as sexist as it goes. It's sexist by the very words it uses.

I think you are incorrect.

Dude,,, that's not going to get you laid. Maybe you should change your screen name to MineralPerson. But I guess that will not get you laid either.

[thundley4]

The word 'panties' is now offensive.  Didn't you get the memo?

Why yes I did. The memo I got was to offend the easily offended as often as possible.   

[JohnnyReb]

Liberal wyminz will only be happy after they have emasculated men to the point that they can't get it up any more and wyminz have to extract sperm from them with a needle.

[Carl]

I just think this kind of stuff makes us all look rather silly and it makes it harder to take us serious

Take my word on it...that Rubicon was crossed years and years ago.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Different thread:

Drunken Irishman (26,127 posts)

The left's swift boating of John Kerry is disgusting, moronic and offensive
   
It shows me, when you rip away the layers, the left ain't no different than the right in attacking and vilifying someone based on absurdities never uttered.

Frankly, when you get down to it, John Kerry is far more a hero, in every measure of the word, than Edward Snowden - who has consistently lied and ran away from responsibility. Kerry owned his words, returned home and stood his ground - despite the threats from the right, and even his government run by one of the most corrupt, and untrustworthy presidents in American history.

Comrade Eddie isn't even worthy of cleaning John Kerry's boots.

DU really is turning into a site run by the extremes - people who vilify the cult of personality of Obama supporters and yet blindly back the much more dangerous cult of personality of Glenn Greenwald and Comrade Eddie. Scary stuff.

Cali_Democrat (20,342 posts)

1. The folks calling for John Kerry to leave government aren't "the left"

They're the right pretending to be the left.

No, they're consistent leftists.

Eich donates $1000 for traditional marriage: you fascists scream he must never work again.

Ditto Paula Dean, Sterling, Phil Robertson or anybody else who disagrees with you.

You earned this. This is everything you worked for.

RobertEarl (6,856 posts)

12. Kerry for president!
 
Oh wait, we tried that. Damn!! All that work and they stole the election right out from under us/him. The DU is called the underground because we didn't like that the establishment D's above ground, LIHOP.

imthevicar (230 posts)

43. Kerry Sold his soul for the almighty Buck!

He gets what he deserves!

I'm not sure what his marriages have to do with this but...whatever.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025020825

[franksolich]

Dude,,, that's not going to get you laid. Maybe you should change your screen name to MineralPerson. But I guess that will not get you laid either.

comment 2460:
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=81827.2450

[Carl]

comment 2460:
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=81827.2450

When you look like that much bad road one might as well just go fishing.

[JohnnyReb]

comment 2460:
http://conservativecave.com/index.php?topic=81827.2450

He should have held that minnow closer to the camera so it would've looked bigger.

[Karin]

Not what I pictured. 

As for the topic, all these people are so easily offended, it's just no use anymore.  Off yourselves.  Life is waaaay too painful to bear. 

[Gina]

patriarchy

Did they just all learn this word in the last week?

[diesel driver]

When you look like that much bad road one might as well just go fishing.

Easy, Carl.

It took a lifetime of liberal stupidity for him to look that good.   

I wonder how many fish he scared off before he caught that one...