primitives discuss paying cash under the table

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022432699

Oh my.

By accident, it seems I wandered into a primitive campfire miles and miles long, so again I'll just quote the PoP, omitting the more-numerous PoNC.

phylny (2,801 posts)       Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:09 PM

What should the response be to someone wanting to be paid in cash for a service?

I have a woman who owns a housecleaning company who has just begun cleaning our house once a month. She did a great job last time, and when it was time to pay her, I asked her how to write out the check (to Jane's Housecleaning Service, or Jane Smith, etc.) and she said, "You can write it to cash, or better, give me cash the next time."
 
I was a little shocked, because her company name is on her truck, and I know she's bonded and licensed. I wrote the check out to cash.
 
I guess the reason I wonder about it is that she's probably paying herself and her employees in cash and she's most likely (can't be sure, of course) is not paying taxes on all of her earnings, and her employees most likely aren't paying taxes, either, or into Social Security. I don't want to be the tax police or anything, but the more I think about it, the more it bothers me thinking of people scamming the system, yet gaining the benefits - taxes are our dues for living in and taking part in a civilized society.
 
What advice, if any, do you have for me? She's really a lovely lady, and as I said, she did a great job. Should I leave cash as she suggested, or write a check?

Warren Stupidity (30,991 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:13 PM

26. There are no IRS implications for the op.

Nor is there any requirement for a business to accept any form of payment other than cash. In fact they don't have to accept cash either, they could demand payment in Squirrels as long as they did so up front. So if the op doesn't want to pay for services using the legal tender of the us government, the op should take his business elsewhere, or mind his own business.
 
For more than 25 years I've bought bagels at a great mom and pop bagel bakery every week and they only take cash. I never once thought that in doing so, in taking payment using legal tender, they were law breaking illegal immigrant exploiting tax evading criminals, but that is just the way I roll.

Cleita (62,078 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:19 PM

4. She's responsible for filing her taxes not you.

However, in California it is required that you pay FICA or file for it anyway and give her a 1099 at the end of the year if she is a housekeeper. If she has her own company, she should have a business license of some sort which means she files taxes and pays insurance. I don't know if it's the same wherever you are. Check with an accountant for your liability.

kestrel91316 (44,534 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:47 PM

16. Pay her however she wishes and get a receipt. After that, it's really not your concern.

.
.
.
.
.

IdaBriggs (5,768 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 08:57 PM

19. Welcome to the Underground Economy.

Of course she isn't claiming all of her income (but I guarantee she is taking every deduction allowed by law).
 
If you aren't comfortable knowing that you are hiring a tax scammer (did you really think it was just a "big business" thing?), hire someone else. Or quit asking questions and either a) write a check to her business name, or b) suck up the fact that even NICE people think they are entitled to not pay their fair share.
 
Optional: demand a receipt, which you should be doing when you pay for a service. Yes, she is bonded and insured (altho I would demand CURRENT proof, and make a phone call to verify) so if one of her employees starts stealing you would have proof they actually worked for you, but odds are good most people don't ask, and if she does have a problem, she can either disappear or deny if there is a claim. (Come on - when a person scams the government because they are entitled to, what makes you really believe they are going to treat you differently? It is a character thing, and it is how we behave when we think no one is looking that our true character comes shining through.)
 
Welcome to peer pressure, and ten thousand reasons to pretend you don't know what is going on. You will find many in this thread: The big guys do it, so who cares? Who are you going to squeal to? What proof do you have? Etc.
 
At the end of the day, do you want her to clean your house or not? People who pay taxes will charge more. How much is a clean toilet worth to you?
 
No one is watching. Are you going to take money out of someone else's pocket because of YOUR morals?
 
It is easier when we can play stupid, isn't it?

phylny (2,801 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:07 PM

22. Vulcan mind meld, Ida

It's funny - we've put two through college, and our last is a junior so our salaries have gone up a bit, but expenses are declining. I said to my husband, "I'm freaking exhausted. Can we PLEASE have someone clean one time a month PLEASE???" (and yes, he does his fair share inside and out, but I work hard). We are at a place in our lives where we can afford it.
 
So, to read on this thread that I would begrudge someone making a living (don't know me very well), that the big guys cheat so it's okay, how do I know she's not paying taxes? You know, if I ask for cash, there's a reason for it, most likely because I don't want a paper trail

Ida, you bring up great points, especially about liability and proof of bonding. I'm not looking to get someone to work for "cheap" - I am willing to pay a fair price. The house is "very well kept" (her words, thank you, not mine) and she's cleaning only one floor - two bedrooms (only one is slept in) two bathrooms, kitchen, living room, sunroom, dining room. $100. Probably comes out to $30/hour or so.

IdaBriggs (5,768 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:22 PM

32. It's tough stuff, especially when they are LOOKING at you.

My last cleaning woman (hired because my MIL, bless her, has higher cleaning standards than I do, and helps us out with child care, and there is No Way I will EVER clean "good enough" for her, if you know what I mean - lol!) asked for "checks made out to cash." We paid it that way, but it blew up on us at the end.
 
The "check scanner" at her bank had an issue where it read the line on the left hand side of the box as a "1" and an extra hundred dollars was removed from the account by accident. Oops! Since it was made out to Cash, our bank had some issues with it, and at first told us someone had altered the check "on purpose." She had actually gotten the extra hundred / not noticed / blah, blah. We were reimbursed, but by the end, there were some hurt feelings, and we mutually terminated the relationship. (It really was a bank error, and I believe it was an oversight on her part, but it sucked up a lot more of my time than I was happy with.) Plus, did I mention the lectures from the bank people?
 
Yuck.

I am not going to go Holier than Thou on this one - I have been uncomfortable about it, but I paid Cash and comforted myself with the fact I pay my taxes, etc. Classic enabler. Sigh. Good, honest trustworthy cleaning folk are hard to find!

.
.
.
.
.

Warren Stupidity (30,991 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:15 PM

27. I grew up in a world where "cash" was the normal form of payment.

What the **** happened?

Jeff In Milwaukee (12,369 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:15 PM

28. Ultimately, it's not your responsibility

My guess is that she's not reporting income. If you don't like being a party to something like that, then you hire someone else. As an alternative, you could tell her that for your own personal accounting purposes, you need to pay her with a check. If she balks, that's the end of it.

Nye Bevan (9,689 posts)    Tue Feb 26, 2013, 09:19 PM

29. Maybe she finds cash more convenient. Her tax affairs are none of your business.

Buzz Clik (26,722 posts)   Tue Feb 26, 2013, 11:15 PM

52. Cash.

lonestarnot (70,785 posts)    Wed Feb 27, 2013, 01:21 AM

74. When shit happens as it has, and people are shoved into marginalized society they create underground economies to survive. Let your conscience be your guide. How much does richie rich have over on us on the graphs these days? Own 90% of everything yet?

Lots of other primitive comments at the link above, but these are the PoP.

By the way, isn't it odd that s-o-o-o-o many primitives can afford cleaning ladies?

[Celtic Rose]

I've never heard of somebody writing a check out to "cash." 

[Freeper]

I've never heard of somebody writing a check out to "cash." 

I have and they were scamming someone. 

There was a time I didn't have an atm or debit card so what I would do is write the check out to myself when I needed cash.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I've never heard of somebody writing a check out to "cash."

Young people... ;D

Just teasing ya' CR!!!

[thundley4]

Young people... ;D

Just teasing ya' CR!!!

I remember it being done long ago, too.


I skimmed through the replies, but didn't see any mention of the obvious.  The company probably has illegal immigrants working for them.

[franksolich]

I've never heard of somebody writing a check out to "cash." 

I have, and it's still done, but the only reason I can think of is it's when one wants money out of his checking account and doesn't have his plastic card with him.

In other words, at least around here, "cash" means one's writing a check to oneself.

Hint: also, since it's a check, one doesn't pay any ATM fees.

[JohnnyReb]

WHAT!!!!!!!!! ......A Democrat getting paid under the table......avoiding paying income taxes......can't be true.

[Freeper]

I have, and it's still done, but the only reason I can think of is it's when one wants money out of his checking account and doesn't have his plastic card with him.

In other words, at least around here, "cash" means one's writing a check to oneself.

Hint: also, since it's a check, one doesn't pay any ATM fees.

A lot of banks don't have any ATM fees if you have an account with them and use only their machines.
And most people use debit cards for everything so the practice of cashing a check with it made out to cash is probably not used much anymore.

[BattleHymn]

I do write checks out for cash.  

Most bank plastics institute daily transaction limit fees, with the debit side being lower than if it were swiped as credit.

[Dori]

WHAT!!!!!!!!! ......A Democrat getting paid under the table......avoiding paying income taxes......can't be true.

There is a huge underground economy.  That's why I've always supported a Nat'l sales tax in place of an income tax.

Just the illegal drug trade alone would bring in hundreds of billions more in tax revenue. 

Also, as far as not being able to track cash receipts, it isn't as hard as you might think.  A good auditor/accountant knows where to look to figure out.