Cracks amongst the crackpots

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Redfairen (439 posts)

Alabama passes school vouchers for students at failing schools, Dems erupt

 Source: Hot Air

<snip>

Citing hotair.com in LBN?

Stupid mole is stupid.

But then there's this:

Roy Rolling (956 posts)

1. Here's an idea

How about fixing the schools they were elected to manage rather than admitting defeat by paying money to enrich private schools?
 
When politicians admit they are incapable of solving the problem, they are even more incapable of choosing someone else who can solve the problem for them.

par for course but here's where it gets good:

golfguru (4,268 posts)

5. That approach won't work

Last edited Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:03 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The government can't fix anything as complex as a school system to run smoothly.
 Post office, Amtrack, ICE, etc are glaring examples.

US already spends more than double per student compared to averages in Europe and
 10 times as much as schools in China & India. And yet US students lag way behind in
 math & science testing. Just look at the foreign students grades versus US born students
 in US universities. The foreign students out perform by a significant margin.

What works best anywhere is those facing fierce competition. I will bet any money if the
 public schools faced stiff competition, they will improve quickly and spectacularly.

Wah!

thucythucy (1,056 posts)

6. "The US already spends more than double

per student compared to averages in Europe..."

The problem is that in Europe, Germany for example, the money is distributed more or less evenly across the entire nation, so that a kid in the poorest neighborhood gets an education roughly equivalent to kids in more affluent communities.
 
In the US most school funding comes from local property taxes, which means kids in rich neighborhoods get top quality public school education, kids in poor neighborhoods: not so much.
 
So yeah, we spend far more per kid on kids in Newton Massachusetts or Beverly Hills California. But I doubt the South Bronx spends "more than double per student" than is spent on kids in Berlin or Munich or Oslo or Helsinki.
 
As for government "can't fix anything" as complex as the Post Office..." The post office worked just fine until Republicans got their hands on it. And there are lots of "complex" systems government does a very good job at managing, from the Navy Seals to air traffic control to the EPA (again, before Republicans began their efforts to emasculate it).
 
It's depressing to see such right wing talking points echoed here on DU.

Jackpine Radical (36,158 posts)

7. Remember that private, for-profit corporation that got us to the moon?

Neither do I.

former9thward (5,855 posts)

10. Funny you would post that on the very day a private corporation

launched a rocket to re-supply the space station. NASA is unable to do it.

DAY-um!

ret5hd (10,003 posts)

11. Unable??? Or not funded?

former9thward (5,855 posts)

16. Unable.

They ended the Space Shuttle program and have no new technology to replace it. NASA's budget has gone up every year despite the ending of the SS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

former9thward (5,855 posts)

9. The South Bronx spend about 4 times what they spend in Germany.

New York City schools spend $19597 per pupil. http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/21/which-places-spent-most-per-student-on-education/ Germany spends $4682 per pupil. http://rossieronline.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/
 
Washington DC which has the worst schools in the country in terms of performance spends $18667 per pupil.

Those are liberal controlled districts, aren't they?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014411933

[DumbAss Tanker]

thucythucy (1,056 posts)

6. "The US already spends more than double

per student compared to averages in Europe..."

The problem is that in Europe, Germany for example, the money is distributed more or less evenly across the entire nation, so that a kid in the poorest neighborhood gets an education roughly equivalent to kids in more affluent communities.
 
In the US most school funding comes from local property taxes, which means kids in rich neighborhoods get top quality public school education, kids in poor neighborhoods: not so much.

Bullshit, as even DUmmie former9thward points out.  Many of the worst schools in the US are those where the amount spent per student is the highest, because throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it when you give the money to a pack of corrupt slime like the teachers, administrations, and school boards that run those schools. 

[thundley4]

IIRC, School funding for my school in 1979 was a little over $2000/student with the highest paid teacher making a little over $22K/year.

Teachers now make an average of $50K/year with almost $9.3k/student.


It's still a small county school.

[ChuckJ]

IIRC, School funding for my school in 1979 was a little over $2000/student with the highest paid teacher making a little over $22K/year.

Teachers now make an average of $50K/year with almost $9.3k/student.


It's still a small county school.

And if your school is like my old school the test scores are lower now than they were back then.

[thundley4]

And if your school is like my old school the test scores are lower now than they were back then.

That I don't know for sure.

[Freeper]

Jackpine Radical (36,158 posts)

7. Remember that private, for-profit corporation that got us to the moon?

Neither do I.

Actually DUmmy, it was many private for evil profits companies that provided the government the technology to go to the moon.
The government didn't wave a magic wand and the Apollo rockets came into existence.

[Maxiest]

golfguru (4,268 posts)

5. That approach won't work

Last edited Fri Mar 1, 2013, 01:03 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The government can't fix anything as complex as a school system to run smoothly.
 Post office, Amtrack, ICE, etc are glaring examples.

US already spends more than double per student compared to averages in Europe and
 10 times as much as schools in China & India. And yet US students lag way behind in
 math & science testing. Just look at the foreign students grades versus US born students
 in US universities. The foreign students out perform by a significant margin.

What works best anywhere is those facing fierce competition. I will bet any money if the
 public schools faced stiff competition, they will improve quickly and spectacularly.

Wonder if golfguru is looking for a pizza?

The government will run nothing efficiently.  Never has never will.

That's why we as conservatives want less government.

Just take a look at any of those mentioned above.

Amtrack is a ****ing disaster and Teh oNe wants high speed rail?  The government has no business being in business.  Period.

As one of my favorite local talk show hosts says: "Government is there to do what the private sector won't, can't, or shouldn't do."

[wasp69]

Jackpine Radical (36,158 posts)

7. Remember that private, for-profit corporation that got us to the moon?

Neither do I.

Really, DUmbass?  Do the names General Dynamics, Convair, Grumman Aircraft,  and North American Aviation sound familiar, you commie ****wad? 

Nah, I didn't figure it did...   

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Really, DUmbass?  Do the names General Dynamics, Convair, Grumman Aircraft,  and North American Aviation sound familiar, you commie ****wad? 

Nah, I didn't figure it did...   

When their hero FDR called America the arsenal of democracy he was refering to for-profit private corporations.

[I_B_Perky]

Bullshit, as even DUmmie former9thward points out.  Many of the worst schools in the US are those where the amount spent per student is the highest, because throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it when you give the money to a pack of corrupt slime like the teachers, administrations, and school boards that run those schools. 

I disagree DAT. Many of the worst schools serve the inner city welfare paradises. The fruit don't fall far from the tree. Teachers can only do so much.

Back in the 70's the government tried an experiment.. they put the welfare pukes in the suburbs in the hopes that would fix the problem. Round here they put the welfare pukes down the road about 8 blocks in a 1 street "settlement". That's what we called it. It's still there.  Went to grade school with all of them. All of them ate the free lunch at school. All of them had their mommas at home, no dads. The rest of us, had mommas at home too while the dads worked and we walked home for lunch. We all cut grass in the summer, shoveled walks in the winter for spending money. The welfare pukes kids laughed at us. Their mommas gave them spending money.  We was all in the Boy Scouts. The welfare pukes kids were not. Our parents showed up to parent teacher conferences. The welfare pukes did not. All of them had the same educational opportunities the rest of us did.

Fast forward to 2013. One, out of about the 15 kids I went to grade school with, made something of himself. He is a Baptist preacher. The rest are in prison, strung out on drugs, dead, or got large welfare families of their own living in the HUD housing.

You can't bake a good cake with crappy ingredients. Unfortunately the crappy ingredients are outbreeding us due to government largess.

Pisses me off.

[jtyangel]

Really, DUmbass?  Do the names General Dynamics, Convair, Grumman Aircraft,  and North American Aviation sound familiar, you commie ****wad? 

Nah, I didn't figure it did...   

Like Freeps said, the fairy godLBGTperson waived their magic skittle colored wand and out popped the space program and all its toys. No private enterprise was ever, oh, I don't know, contracted by the magical federal government. It's, you know, the same way drug companies don't make medications that save their sorry hides--it magically appears in a chemistry set without much thought or time then a 'beaker' skit and when it does happen, dummies should have access to said drug totally free of charge. What a bunch of mental midgets.

[jtyangel]

I disagree DAT. Many of the worst schools serve the inner city welfare paradises. The fruit don't fall far from the tree. Teachers can only do so much.

Back in the 70's the government tried an experiment.. they put the welfare pukes in the suburbs in the hopes that would fix the problem. Round here they put the welfare pukes down the road about 8 blocks in a 1 street "settlement". That's what we called it. It's still there.  Went to grade school with all of them. All of them ate the free lunch at school. All of them had their mommas at home, no dads. The rest of us, had mommas at home too while the dads worked and we walked home for lunch. We all cut grass in the summer, shoveled walks in the winter for spending money. The welfare pukes kids laughed at us. Their mommas gave them spending money.  We was all in the Boy Scouts. The welfare pukes kids were not. Our parents showed up to parent teacher conferences. The welfare pukes did not. All of them had the same educational opportunities the rest of us did.

Fast forward to 2013. One, out of about the 15 kids I went to grade school with, made something of himself. He is a Baptist preacher. The rest are in prison, strung out on drugs, dead, or got large welfare families of their own living in the HUD housing.

You can't bake a good cake with crappy ingredients. Unfortunately the crappy ingredients are outbreeding us due to government largess.

Pisses me off.

I actually share your sentiments; where I find the education wheel complicit is that they know this; they do, but not acknowledging it and pretending helps to keep them well funded. Nobody dares utter the real solutions to this since some of them would infringe upon the parents' freedoms in a major way. I don't know the answer either, but the bar in my opinion might be set a wee bit low for what is considered a 'fit parent'. I just don't see how having your child play on the street corner while you 'booty pop' with your homies to filthy lyrics in earshot of those children is really a fit parent worthy of receiving welfare to spread that knowledge on to the next generation. I've always felt once the kids are here, some of them would be a thousand times better off getting a shot with a REAL family--hell even many homosexual couples could do a much better job then some of the lowlifes that occupy HUD housing.

And even with that said, how many single parents who are actually decent people lose their children because they can't always provide adequate supervision or fight the huge crap influence in their communities and their kids are lost to a culture they are having a hard time escaping. The one in 15 you said probably had a parent like that who told them to take advantage of the opportunity he/she had been given since in the real world they would never have a shot to attend a school like they are being bussed to on their family's income. I hate those craphole areas because of that. They breed human refuse and that refuse sometimes take the small percentage of good kids who have solid parents who happen to be poor with them.

[RobJohnson]

I disagree DAT. Many of the worst schools serve the inner city welfare paradises. The fruit don't fall far from the tree. Teachers can only do so much.

Back in the 70's the government tried an experiment.. they put the welfare pukes in the suburbs in the hopes that would fix the problem. Round here they put the welfare pukes down the road about 8 blocks in a 1 street "settlement". That's what we called it. It's still there.  Went to grade school with all of them. All of them ate the free lunch at school. All of them had their mommas at home, no dads. The rest of us, had mommas at home too while the dads worked and we walked home for lunch. We all cut grass in the summer, shoveled walks in the winter for spending money. The welfare pukes kids laughed at us. Their mommas gave them spending money.  We was all in the Boy Scouts. The welfare pukes kids were not. Our parents showed up to parent teacher conferences. The welfare pukes did not. All of them had the same educational opportunities the rest of us did.

Fast forward to 2013. One, out of about the 15 kids I went to grade school with, made something of himself. He is a Baptist preacher. The rest are in prison, strung out on drugs, dead, or got large welfare families of their own living in the HUD housing.

You can't bake a good cake with crappy ingredients. Unfortunately the crappy ingredients are outbreeding us due to government largess.

Pisses me off.

Good points.