primitives discuss re-imposing the Volstead Act

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022420737

Oh my.

The extra-chromosomed primitive has become one of my favorites; she's a riot.

xchrom (87,783 posts)   Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:41 AM

The Case for Closing Liquor Stores

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/case-closing-liquor-stores

Liquor stores attract violent crime the way honey attracts flies. On many maps showing the location of both liquor stores and violent crime, the dots representing crime look like metal filings drawn to a powerful magnet—the booze outlet. The discovery that violent crime is related to places, not only people, and that about half of all crimes tend to occur in about 5% of locations, was made in New York City in the 1980s. Focusing on the role that alcohol outlets play in a city's violent crime patterns has vastly improved the effectiveness and efficiency of policing. But when it comes to the obvious logical conclusion—that the number of stores be dramatically reduced—public officials have balked. Putting small businesses out of business is not the American way.
 
Since the 1980s, this systematic approach has changed the way crime is dealt with in many states. So-called criminogenic places, or hot spots, often have poor lighting, transit stops, abandoned buildings, nightclubs and…liquor outlets. A mass of evidence showing the connection—in terms of both proximity and concentration—between liquor stores and crimes like murder, rape and assault has come from all over: Indiana, Riverside, California, Baltimore’s John Hopkins University, and the environmental think-tank the Pacific Institute, using statistics from New Jersey to Australia, to name a few.
 
In a study at the University of California/Riverside comparing federal crime data for youths, ages 13 to 24, to a wide range of factors, including the density of liquor (and beer and wine) outlets, in 91 of the biggest US cities, researchers found that a higher concentration of booze businesses was significantly linked to higher rates of homicide. Access to alcohol was right up there with poverty, drugs, guns and gangs. And of all these causes, only liquor stores are even remotely susceptible to direct control. “Our findings suggest that reducing alcohol outlet density should significantly reduce the trends of youth homicide,” said Robert N. Parker, co-author of the UC/Riverside study.
 
A related study found even more specific factors that further underscore the connection between liquor stores and crime: including more retail outlets that sell single-serve containers of alcohol in their coolers. Even the percentage of cooler space made a difference—the more space for loose Millers, grab-and-go Four Lokos and the like, the more violent crime.

hobbit709 (25,044 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:43 AM

1. That was tried once before. It didn't work out too well.

It won't work out too well when they try it with firearms too.

datasuspect (25,048 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:46 AM

2. i live in an exurban farming community in illinois.

they sell beer at the gas station. there's one liquor store in town.

there's never any problem.

i guess it depends on where the beer store is located. the problem isn't the beer store itself.

In_The_Wind (34,796 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:17 AM

4. It's never gonna happen.

Arkansas Granny (14,298 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 08:39 AM

6. Around my town it seems that drug stores are hit more often than liquor stores.

Is that an argument for closing them also?

KharmaTrain (30,269 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:50 AM

8. A Mixed Bag Here...

I can use the example of Evanston, Illinois...the longtime home of the Woman Christian Temperance Union. Until the mid 80s the town was totally dry and today the only liquor sold is by the drink (at restaurants). That didn't stop certain areas from suffering from urban blight...package good stores lined the streets in adjacent towns. Another move to limit liquor stores in some Chicago neighborhoods led to a rise in drunk driving accidents as those who wanted to buy hopped in cars rather than able to walk to a nearby store.
 
That said...it is depressing to see how many liquor stores and bars proliferate in the poorest and most run down neighborhoods. It's a sign of the desperation...the lack of jobs and other opportunities...especially among teens and young adults...that turn to drinking, drugs and violence. As long as unemployment remains high in these areas so will violence and alcohol abuse. Liquor stores themselves have become sources of government corruption with shakedowns from city inspectors...

^^^Yep, that tends to happen in places run by Democrat party machines.

surrealAmerican (7,240 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:13 PM

11. While the history you cite is correct ...

... you are mistaken about present-day liquor sales in Evanston. There's a liquor store downtown that has been there for at least 20 years, and alcohol is also sold in supermarkets. There are also a number of bars. There's even a local distillery. Francis Willard would be very disappointed, but there are very few vestiges left of the "dry town" she knew.

KharmaTrain (30,269 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:22 PM

12. Thank You For The Update...

...I lived across the canal in the 60s and 70s...when it was still very dry and then recall the battles to change the law. In the early 70s I worked at a company that was at McCormick and Church in Skokie...every morning I'd see people lining up outside the liquor store next door...almost all coming over from Evanston. So while the city was "dry"...the students at Northwestern and many other residents weren't.

MindPilot (10,449 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:57 AM

9. There was no such reluctance to close MMJ dispensaries for the very same reason.

"they attract crime".

^^^They do attract crime, though, which is a good reason to shut them down.

Silent3 (6,625 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:25 PM

13. Is "attracting crime" the same as "increasing crime"?

Would the crime "attracted" by liquor stores be reduced if the liquor stores weren't there, or still be there, but distributed differently geographically?
 
Even if crime would be reduced in some ways and in some areas, given the mess generated by Prohibition, I have a hard time believing that the "cure" of getting rid of liquor stores wouldn't be worse than the disease it was meant to cure.

Recursion (23,210 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:29 PM

14. Yellow fingernails are linked with emphysema

But de-yellowing a smoker's fingernails won't make the emphysema go away.

There's a market for alcohol in high-crime neighborhoods, but taking away the alcohol won't make the crime stop, IMO. Other things you'll find in high-crime neighborhoods are check cashing stores and chinese carryouts.

disclaimer: franksolich doesn't indulge in alcohol--hasn't since 1987--but franksolich would be reluctant to deny others the opportunity to do so.

[NHSparky]

Funny, the liquor stores here in NH are state-run affairs (beer and wine can be had in grocery or convenience stores, but that's it) and yet I've yet to see a concentration of crime in the immediate vicinity of these establishments. 

Do tell, DUmmies.  Or could it be for another reason this issue exists?

[Dori]

Do tell, DUmmies.  Or could it be for another reason this issue exists?

Couldn't have anything to do with liberal run towns could it?

[GOBUCKS]

Do tell, DUmmies.  Or could it be for another reason this issue exists?

A real puzzle. Same as Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas.

All these places just need more 0bamaites.

[thundley4]

datasuspect (25,048 posts)    Sun Feb 24, 2013, 07:46 AM

2. i live in an exurban farming community in illinois.

they sell beer at the gas station. there's one liquor store in town.

there's never any problem.

i guess it depends on where the beer store is located. the problem isn't the beer store itself.

Funny, the liquor stores here in NH are state-run affairs (beer and wine can be had in grocery or convenience stores, but that's it) and yet I've yet to see a concentration of crime in the immediate vicinity of these establishments. 

Do tell, DUmmies.  Or could it be for another reason this issue exists?

For some reason , most of the liquor stores here that have crimes occur near are the ones the advertise accepting EBT cards.

[Carl]

No crime problems here with liquor or beer stores.

Seems that only areas with a high concentration of DUmbasses experience this.