help New York secede!

[Celtic Rose]

CR,

Read the entire decision in Hepburn v. Elzey (1804) (decision here). It does not define a "state" as you have described. Basically, according to Hepburn, a state is a state, and the District of Columbia isn't a state.

Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that your reading and application of Hepburn is correct. Applying Hepburn to the secession of the Confederate states fails, because any of the Confederate states could have sent their Senators and Representatives to Congress; they chose not to.

Texas v. White addresses the point you are making, and rejects it. Read the decision here. The Supreme Court decided that Texas never had the right of secession in the first place, and the US was not bound by the state's act of seceding. Once a state is in the Union, it's in.

 

I actually used the dissenting opinion's reference to Hepburn to build my argument.  Rebel makes a good point.  The 10th amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  One could make the argument, easily, that at secession is not mentioned in the constitution, that it is a right reserved to the states.  It was a 5 to 3 decision, and three of the pro justices were appointed by Lincoln, one of who had been his campaign manager, and another the Secretary of Treasury. 

[BlueStateSaint]

I'm kinda with you, Defiantsix.  I've made no comments anywhere on any of the internets.  I understand completely how pissed people are, especially with massive voter fraud having taken place.  New York puzzles me a little bit.  I can see wanting to become "North New York" and "South New York," though.  It is culturally two different entities.  Some parts around here would remind you of Rocky Top, TN.    

I'd put "South New York" somewhere south of Albany . . . or, at its' highest, the Mohawk River.

[Chris_]

[youtube=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc&feature=g-u-u[/youtube]

[wasp69]

[youtube=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQV_YKBvxbc&feature=g-u-u[/youtube]

Well, isn't that interesting.  I am a firm believer in the right of a Sovereign State to exercise its right to secede from the Union when the governed determine a "divorce" is in their best interest.  I think it would be stupid, our strength lies in our unity, not diversity but I still believe in it as a right.

What the various persons who submitted these petitions to obinga seem to forget is that to secede, one does not ask permission, one makes a declaration.  Asking a tyrant for permission psychologically puts one in a position of subservience and weakness.

[Rebel]

I think it would be stupid, our strength lies in our unity, not diversity but I still believe in it as a right.

That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades. This is our definition of "marriage":


[youtube=425,350]jLWTFhiqYog[/youtube]

[Dori]

That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades. This is our definition of "marriage":

I agree with you.  That ship has sailed. Now with all this talk of amnesty for all the illegals (coming from both sides of the isle) is only going to insure that the Democrats will always have a majority in future elections.  The Mexican immigrants have never voted for a Republican above 40%, even after Reagan's amnesty.

Wake up and smell the coffee folks, it's time for conservatives to make other plans for their future and their children's futures.

[wasp69]

That ship sailed long ago. I do think a divorce is inevitable. This unity you speak of just does not exist anymore and the difference can be seen in any election map dating back 2 decades.

I know.  It has been demonstrated that a fractured America does not bode well for anyone, least of all us.  The same election maps show increasing conservative popularity in many states where it did not previously exist while at the same time showing a higher concentration of looters which have bred prolifically over the years. 

How do liberty and freedom minded people overcome that?  I don't think secession is the answer in this day and age, I really don't.  Forcing the blue shitholes to have to live with their decisions is the best answer but seceding Sovereign States choosing alliances based on the wishes of the urban hellholes will only harm the very people we have been able to reach over the last 20 years.

[Rebel]

I know.  It has been demonstrated that a fractured America does not bode well for anyone, least of all us.  The same election maps show increasing conservative popularity in many states where it did not previously exist while at the same time showing a higher concentration of looters which have bred prolifically over the years.  

How do liberty and freedom minded people overcome that?  I don't think secession is the answer in this day and age, I really don't.  Forcing the blue shitholes to have to live with their decisions is the best answer but seceding Sovereign States choosing alliances based on the wishes of the urban hellholes will only harm the very people we have been able to reach over the last 20 years.

THE most liberal senator President in history was just re-elected with a 7.9% U3 rate, almost 18% U6 rate, 10+ more million on food stamps, gas over 3.00 a gallon, a 16 trillion dollar debt, 3+ years of a 1+ trillion dollar deficit, and without a budget for the past 3 years. His plan to fix it is to gut the military, double down on entitlements, and raise taxes on the very people that create the jobs. I see NO way out of this. There may come a time when a mutual, voluntary split may be the least violent way to deal with our differences. The liberals don't want the "Teathuglican" states, and we damn sure don't want to associate with those moonbats who would just as soon rather shit on the US Constitution than actually uphold it. We're in the age of the rule of man, majority rule, MOB rule. As Dinesh so eloquently put it, when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul. Stick a fork in us.

[wasp69]

THE most liberal senator President in history was just re-elected

Barely, and with no mandate to do anything other than continue the gridlock of the last two years.  Look at the map, Reb, we're not defeated.

[Rebel]

Barely, and with no mandate to do anything other than continue the gridlock of the last two years.  Look at the map, Reb, we're not defeated.

The map is pretty immaterial, other than gauging where ideology lies, as most of the red are counties and areas in general with sparse populations. In the meantime, or the next four years shall I say....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kennedy

Both 76. That was one of the MAIN damn points I was trying to tell all these ****ing idiots vowing to show their displeasure by voting for Gary Johnson. We should have won this election in a landslide with ****ing Daffy Duck running with Goofy as his ****ing running mate. He does have a mandate. He has a senate on his side. Gridlock you say? How did that work at stopping this dictator wannabe the last 2 years? He does whatever the **** he wants to do, and when someone says something about it, the Damn media is out there trying to destroy the person.

Yeah, we're pretty ****ed. I've tried to remain the optimist. Last week killed it. No one is going to sell me poison ivy wrapped in azalea packaging.