Author Topic: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?  (Read 2173 times)

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Offline JohnnyReb

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"750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« on: September 15, 2012, 08:45:41 AM »
I remember reading awhile back about the DHS ordering some thousands of rounds of hollow point ammo for SS, NOAA, and others. This morning I was reading a story of and Air Force general claiming that the DHS had ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammo and an additional 750 million of other ammo including ammo capable of piercing walls.

I then googled "750 million rounds of hollow point" and got numerous hits. What I'd like to know is it true or an internet rumor. ...and the original source.

If true, someone is planning something big.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 09:29:52 AM »
Weeeell, seeing that I was one of those who raised the red flags on our board, I've heard a couple of explanations.  One is that the various agencies (SSA, for example) purchases are barely enough to cover qualification and practice for multiple years.  That one seems to fly, at least for the SSA.  I can't remember the reason for NOAA getting the ammo.

The next part--the wall-piercing ammo--IDK about that one.  There's enough bullet combos that replicate the ballistics of the hollow points (Speer Gold Dots, IIRC) that wouldn't arouse suspicion as much.
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 10:39:32 AM »
Yes its true.

My problem is TSA does not have the same qualifications as a police force. Former inmates jailed for pedophilia are TSA agents. If these yahoos are going to be armed, they need to pass the same scrutiny as your standard cop on the street.

Offline Big Dog

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 10:54:53 AM »
Weeeell, seeing that I was one of those who raised the red flags on our board, I've heard a couple of explanations.  One is that the various agencies (SSA, for example) purchases are barely enough to cover qualification and practice for multiple years.  That one seems to fly, at least for the SSA.  I can't remember the reason for NOAA getting the ammo.

The next part--the wall-piercing ammo--IDK about that one.  There's enough bullet combos that replicate the ballistics of the hollow points (Speer Gold Dots, IIRC) that wouldn't arouse suspicion as much.

NOAA is pruchasing ammunition for their Fisheries cops. The per-officer allotment is 200 rds of pistol ammo for their go-bags, and 600 per year for range and qualification.

"Wall-piercing" is a bit of  :panic: from InfoWars. The FLETC purchase order included .357 Magnum handgun ammunition, which InfoTards said "could pierce walls." NO SHIT. Any centerfire handgun ammunition will penetrate both sides of a wall (2 layers of drywall, fiberglass insulation, and two layers of paint); in fact, ball ammo will penetrate more layers of wall materials than hollowpoints in the same chambering.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 12:07:35 PM »
copied from ... http://gaspeegazette.wordpress.com/

Finally a mainstream news outlet has printed a story from a credible, un-anonymous military source about the ridiculous trend of massive hollow-point ammunition purchases by Federal Agencies within our government. See link here from the Friday edition of The Daily Caller blog.

The Maj. General makes a terrifying point towards the end of his op-ed article:

“In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls.”

They have at least written the manual for the internment camps....

http://gaspeegazette.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/urgent-breaking-news-gaspee-confirmed-army-manual-for-internment-and-resettlement-is-legitimate/

BTW...and to tell the thruth ... the editor(???) for the Gaspee Gazette was to speak this morning on UN agenda 21(?) at the local Tea Party gathering... I was unable to attend.

...and there is an article on that site about a KBR contract to build the camps...and some info predates Obama and even Bush ll.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline BigTex

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 12:31:13 PM »
750 million is NOT true. It is 450 million and that is over a 5 year period and its not even that much as just a "credit limit" to buy up to 450 million.

Quote
In this case, DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years.  They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds.  Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years – not a onetime ammunition order.

http://westmoreland.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=642&Itemid=372
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 12:35:33 PM by BigTex »
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2012, 01:02:05 PM »
copied from ... http://gaspeegazette.wordpress.com/

Finally a mainstream news outlet has printed a story from a credible, un-anonymous military source about the ridiculous trend of massive hollow-point ammunition purchases by Federal Agencies within our government. See link here from the Friday edition of The Daily Caller blog.

The Maj. General makes a terrifying point towards the end of his op-ed article:

“In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls.”

They have at least written the manual for the internment camps....

http://gaspeegazette.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/urgent-breaking-news-gaspee-confirmed-army-manual-for-internment-and-resettlement-is-legitimate/

BTW...and to tell the thruth ... the editor(???) for the Gaspee Gazette was to speak this morning on UN agenda 21(?) at the local Tea Party gathering... I was unable to attend.

...and there is an article on that site about a KBR contract to build the camps...and some info predates Obama and even Bush ll.

Johnny,

MG (Ret) Curry retired from the Army in 1986. He describes himself as a business consultant and opera singer. He is no more a credible military source than you or me.

His op-ed article veers into Sillyland. I have a hard time taking seriously someone who forgot that people who carry weapons should practice and qualify with them; who says that hollow point ammunition is deadlier than ball ammo; and who believes that the Joint Chiefs of Staff (DOD) should take control of the Dept of Homeland Security, and execute a coup d'etat against the civilian government of the United States. Source: Daily Caller op-ed by Curry, final two paragraphs.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2012, 03:05:46 PM »
NOAA is pruchasing ammunition for their Fisheries cops. The per-officer allotment is 200 rds of pistol ammo for their go-bags, and 600 per year for range and qualification.

The Federal agency that does weather forecasting also oversees fisheries?  I thought that was some other agency that did fishery oversight.

Quote
"Wall-piercing" is a bit of  :panic: from InfoWars. The FLETC purchase order included .357 Magnum handgun ammunition, which InfoTards said "could pierce walls." NO SHIT. Any centerfire handgun ammunition will penetrate both sides of a wall (2 layers of drywall, fiberglass insulation, and two layers of paint); in fact, ball ammo will penetrate more layers of wall materials than hollowpoints in the same chambering.

I do believe it's .357 SIG, which is supposed to reproduce .357 Magnum ballistics in a semiauto.  Minor point, but one nonetheless.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

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Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 03:27:41 PM »
The Federal agency that does weather forecasting also oversees fisheries?  I thought that was some other agency that did fishery oversight.


National Marine Fisheries Service is under National Oceanic (and) Atmospheric Administration, which is under the department of commerce. 
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2012, 10:48:31 AM »
I do believe it's .357 SIG, which is supposed to reproduce .357 Magnum ballistics in a semiauto.  Minor point, but one nonetheless.

Roger that. It's .357 SIG. Thanks for the correction.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 12:09:54 PM »
National Marine Fisheries Service is under National Oceanic (and) Atmospheric Administration, which is under the department of commerce. 

I had no idea in 22 years of working with the Inspectors of the Department of Commerce to insure our plant met the standards of the the Government for Fisheries  were armed and deadly. 

Darn we had some wing nuts come in to the plant, One was removed when he slapped an Asian on the butt and 2 others for either sleeping on the job or not able to do their job due to Arrest and in jail.     Now I hear they were armed   ????

Good grief who were they armed against, the local lobsterman that comes into port to sell his catch, the week end fisherman that may have been been taking shorts home????

Working in the plants that prep and prepair fish for the market fish, Who do they need to defend themselves against ?????

It is true an inspector can shut down a plant at any time they find any problem, but believe me the plants go into high gear when they do a Kosher run and the Rabbi is  in the plant.   

Rather have an unarmed Rabbi checking into the the Plant then some dumb shit inspector who is armed sleeping on the job.   


Offline Big Dog

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 01:23:49 PM »
I had no idea in 22 years of working with the Inspectors of the Department of Commerce to insure our plant met the standards of the the Government for Fisheries  were armed and deadly. 

Darn we had some wing nuts come in to the plant, One was removed when he slapped an Asian on the butt and 2 others for either sleeping on the job or not able to do their job due to Arrest and in jail.     Now I hear they were armed   ????

Good grief who were they armed against, the local lobsterman that comes into port to sell his catch, the week end fisherman that may have been been taking shorts home????

Working in the plants that prep and prepair fish for the market fish, Who do they need to defend themselves against ?????

It is true an inspector can shut down a plant at any time they find any problem, but believe me the plants go into high gear when they do a Kosher run and the Rabbi is  in the plant.   

Rather have an unarmed Rabbi checking into the the Plant then some dumb shit inspector who is armed sleeping on the job.   

Ummmm... no, vesta.

We're talking about the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), not the US Dept of Commerce.

Source: NOAA Office of Law Enforcement

NOAA Office of Law Enforcement Special Agents and Enforcement Officers perform a variety of tasks associated with the protection and conservation of our nation's living marine resources.

OLE Special Agents and Enforcement Officers conduct complex criminal and civil investigations, board vessels fishing at sea, inspect fish processing plants, review sales of wildlife products on the internet and conduct patrols on land, in the air and at sea.

The individual OLE Special Agent and Enforcement Officer rely on their FLETC training, seamanship skills, emerging technologies and close partnerships with various local, state, tribal, Federal and international law enforcement partners to protect over 3.36 million square miles of water and enforce international treaties on the high seas.

PATROLS

NOAA Fisheries Office for Law Enforcement Special Agents and Enforcement Officers perform a variety of tasks associated with the protection and conservation of our nation's living marine resources.

In order to enforce these laws, OLE special agents and enforcement officers use OLE patrol vessels to board vessels fishing at sea, and conduct additional patrols on land, in the air and at sea in conjunction with other local, state and Federal agencies.

In any given year, OLE Agents and Officers spend and average 10,000-11,000 hours conducting patrols and investigations, and an additional 10,000-11,000 hours on outreach activities.

The OLE maintains 19 patrol boats around the country to conduct a variety of patrols including Protected Resources Enforcement Team (PRET) boardings, protection of out National Marine Sanctuaries and various undercover operations.
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Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2012, 04:46:59 PM »
And vesta to continue the big dogs point, have you ever boarded a trawler that was fishing for large bails floating in the gulf stream?

How bout catching the two guys with 20k pounds of illegal stripers. The guy setting the illegal fish pots in closed waters knowing they're facing prison.  Should they just be armed with a wet noodle?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 02:52:58 PM by Crazy Horse »
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Offline vesta111

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Re: "750 million rounds of hollow point"...true or false?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 08:01:48 AM »
And vesta to continue the big fogs point, have you ever boarded a trawler that was fishing for large bails floating in the gulf stream?

How bout catching the two guys with 20k pounds of illegal stripers. The guy setting the illegal fish pots in closed waters knowing they're facing prison.  Should they just be armed with a wet noodle?

All I Know is the Lobster wars past and perhaps present off the East Coast and a few horror story's of the Vietnamese owned refugee shrimp boats being set afire off Texas by legal  and illegal competition.

At one time the foreign flag ships came in so close to shore with their sweeping nets they swept up thousands of set lobster pots.

TheGovernment was so afraid of an international incident between the American fisherman and a foreign ship destroying their property, a huge row broke out between the Americans loaded for bear to protect their property and rights that few lobster boats went out without being armed to the teeth to protect their traps.   

I can equate this with American ranchers near the Mexican border having their cattle stolen and brought back to Mexico.   Today it is vehicles that are stolen and find their way across the border.

Also today we have limits and no catching of indangered species for American registered fishing boats but what to do with the foreign boats that thumb their nose at the American Laws and come in so close to shore that with a good pair of glasses see the  workers covering up their spy equipment and bringing in nets of fish we cannot collect to be frozen aboard.   The huge Factory ships.

What can the Coast Guard do, cannot do more then perhaps board them and order them out to sea, the next day they are back.

We do not have enough Coast Guard to prowl both coasts to do all the jobs they are suppost to do,   We in this area are very Proud of our Coast Guard, they have brought in tons of drugs every year.   They are on the river with diving teams to search and rescue, the number of things they must handle are on our coasts mostly and we depend on them to keep us safe.

We have allways been a Navy/ Marine town with all the infighting and ruckus they cause but the Coast Guard has all ways kept a low profile. Not much help for the fisherman that have to watch a foreign registered ship destroy their property and earnings for a full year. So the locals arm themselves and the government get all upset about the consequences of the locals defending their property.

Have to come be raised in any sea port to understand, you see a scow covered with rust lying high in the water with $50,000 worth of radar on top,  Big tankers laying off the coast in quarantine waiting for inspection, and all these  local boats headed out to meet them before the inspection.

We do not have enough Coast Guard to be able to stop the smuggling and theft of our fishermans gear.  We need more boats and more people in the Coast Guard, as long as we are afraid to touch a vessel under a foreign flag -------And the crew may be Russion or Iran. but the boat registered to say Italy, then problems arise.  Whatever they catch is now a product of Italy even if caught off the coast of Maine.

You know that man that was arrested when his jet ski concoked out, he swam ashore onto an airfield.   Arrested for trespassing they said.      Problem is the law of the seas has a hefty fine for people in his situation that are NOT allowed on land.   Don't matter whose property Civilian or Government, I wonder if this man sued the airfield for not giving him relief, rest and false arrest for tresspassing on land.