primitives discuss where free speech goes to die

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021075332

Oh my.

xchrom (79,083 posts)

Where Free Speech Goes to Die: The Workplace

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-03/where-free-speech-goes-to-die-the-workplace

In America you can say pretty much whatever you want, wherever you want to say it. Unless, that is, you’re at work. Simply put, there is no First Amendment right to “free speech” in the workplace—potentially perilous for many employees in a polarized political year with a tight presidential race.

Current news provides plenty of examples of just how much leeway managers have to limit their workers’ freedom of speech, or to encourage political activity among employees. On Aug. 2, an Arizona-based medical supplies manufacturer, Vante, dismissed CFO Adam Smith for berating a Tucson Chick-fil-A employee for working at what he considered a homophobic company. Chick-fil-A has made national headlines recently for its president’s controversial comments about same-sex marriage.

“I don’t know how you live with yourself and work here,” Smith says in a video of the exchange, which was posted on YouTube (GOOG). “This is a horrible corporation with horrible values. You deserve better.” Vante quickly fired Smith, and posted its regrets about the incident in a statement on the home page of its website.

Bosses and those who work under them are not equal when it comes to free-speech legal claims. Employers have the right to take action against any employee who engages in political speech that company leaders find offensive. With a few narrow exceptions the Constitution and the federal laws derived from it only protect a person’s right to expression from government interference, not from the restrictions a private employer may impose, lawyers say.

90-percent (4,462 posts)

1. Run government like a business

Being employed in this day and age is a daily taste of what it's like to live in a

TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATE

At work employers seem to have all the rights while the employee has none. The possible exception being medical rights to privacy.

Employment in America presently is about as non-democracy as you can get.

Why the **** anybody in their right mind would want our government "run like a business" is beyond my comprehension!

The one exception might be in a workplace that has a healthy UNION. That can at least afford you some BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS at work.

"They" treat people like animals and get away with it every working day in America.

I know there's exceptions and good for all my fellow DU'ers that are enjoying a "good job". Covet it like it was your child. It is rare and precious.

Gidney N Cloyd (8,951 posts)

2. Was Adam Smith fired for exercising his 1st Amendment rights or for being an asshole?

twizzler (140 posts)

4. He was fired for being an asshole

I'm just speculating here but, when you get to that level of management, you usually have to sign a code of conduct contract which lays out what is expected of your behavior on and off the job.

One of those provisions is don't do anything that will bring negative attention to yourself or your employer, which he obviously did.

Also, when at that level of management, you are usually assigned a company vehicle, he was on his lunch break, so it's quite possible that he was using a company vehicle when he went off on his little rant which is more than enough grounds for termination.

He has since apologized, but he should have known better.

loli phabay (651 posts)

3. I guess it depends if you are on your own time or purporting to be the company and what exactly you are saying. Or if you decide to go worldwide viral.

twizzler (140 posts)

5. He was purportedly on his lunch time but being a salaried employee, I think that is still company time.

[Big Dog]

annabanana (43,325 posts)
7. And this may be THE most compelling reason for an online pseudonym! . .n/t

View profile
(not really annabanana)

Yeah. Ask Steve Dawes, failed candidate for City Council, how that worked out for him.

Here's a novel idea, DUmmy AnnaYellowPhallicSymbol. Don't write or say things you don't want attributed to you. Just like Steve Dawes, you have Friends everywhere.

[franksolich]

Apparently there's a misimpression among the primitives that governmental employees are free to speak their minds, more so than private-enterprise employees.

I'm not sure.

I worked for the Nebraska Department of Health during much of Bob Kerrey's single gubernatorial term, and I must say free speech was not tolerated in that Democrat administration.

In fact, that's proven the most restrictive conditions I've ever worked under.  Even Immigration & Naturalization under Bill Clinton, while antagonist towards free speech, tolerated more of it, than was tolerated there.

And among private-enterprise employers, I've been free to speak my mind--always aware at the same time that free speech has consequences, some of which one may not like.

Too bad for the primitives.

[WinOne4TheGipper]

If Adam Smith had penned a letter to the editor, written a blog post, or even joined the kiss in with his boyfriend, he'd still have a job and still be the 967,652nd most famous Adam Smith.  But he had to be verbally abusive to a woman whose only sin was having a job.  No one wants a douchebag like that as an employee.

[Bad Dog]

Yet they all whine for Clear Channel to fire Rush when he hurts their feelings.

[freedumb2003]

Apparently there's a misimpression among the primitives that governmental employees are free to speak their minds, more so than private-enterprise employees.

I'm not sure.

I worked for the Nebraska Department of Health during much of Bob Kerrey's single gubernatorial term, and I must say free speech was not tolerated in that Democrat administration.

In fact, that's proven the most restrictive conditions I've ever worked under.  Even Immigration & Naturalization under Bill Clinton, while antagonist towards free speech, tolerated more of it, than was tolerated there.

And among private-enterprise employers, I've been free to speak my mind--always aware at the same time that free speech has consequences, some of which one may not like.

Too bad for the primitives.

I worked for the State of California and any political speech was explicitly not allowed.  No campaign buttons, posters, or anything like that.  You could talk privately but I learned early on that conservative opinions were the way to ensure you got nowhere.

[Big Dog]

Apparently there's a misimpression among the primitives that governmental employees are free to speak their minds, more so than private-enterprise employees.

I'm not sure.

I worked for the Nebraska Department of Health during much of Bob Kerrey's single gubernatorial term, and I must say free speech was not tolerated in that Democrat administration.

In fact, that's proven the most restrictive conditions I've ever worked under.  Even Immigration & Naturalization under Bill Clinton, while antagonist towards free speech, tolerated more of it, than was tolerated there.

And among private-enterprise employers, I've been free to speak my mind--always aware at the same time that free speech has consequences, some of which one may not like.

Too bad for the primitives.

Federal employees are strictly restricted in the workplace, for political and non-political speech.

We are permitted by law to support and take part in political activity in our off-duty time, with some important restrictions. See Political Activity and the Federal Employee, page 4, for a list of permitted and prohibited political activities.

Non-political free speech also has limitations. Federal employees may be disciplined or terminated for public speech and actions which advocate illegal activity, or bring discredit upon the United States of America or the Federal agency. A hypothetical example would be an FBI agent who made X-rated movies in his off-duty time.

[98ZJUSMC]

And among private-enterprise employers, I've been free to speak my mind--always aware at the same time that free speech has consequences, some of which one may not like.

Too bad for the primitives.

The mouthbreathers will never understand the concept of the responsibilities inherent with rights, especially speech.  Unless, of course, it is they that consider themselves offended.  Subject to whatever slot the Wheel-O-Victim stops on that day.

[98ZJUSMC]

Yet they all whine for Clear Channel to fire Rush when he hurts their feelings.

Exactly!

 

See above.

[Big Dog]

Robb (35,295 posts)
11. A sensible opinion, until you are faced only with job opportunities with bigoted companies.

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The choice -- starve your family or tacitly support the bigots who sign your paycheck -- is fast becoming universal, and is untenable.

You take the Man's money, you play by the Man's rules. If you can't handle that, find a new Man or work for yourself.

...

Yeah, yeah, I know. I made a false dichotomy. DUmmies will do what DUmmies do; suck at the public teat and complain about the milk.

[Skul]

xchrom (79,083 posts)

Where Free Speech Goes to Die:

DUmpmonkey undergound.
Go ahead, post a few dissenting comments, then see what happens.
Got pizza?

[jukin]

In a socialist/fascist/progressive/democrat party controlled Utopia. Always has, always will.

Remember we are always just one regulation away from that Utopia.