Author Topic: Is a life sentence without parole cruel and unusual punishment for juveniles  (Read 2757 times)

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Offline CG6468

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Is a life sentence without parole cruel and unusual punishment for juveniles convicted of serious crimes?

I voted YES. Do the crime, pay the time.
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Offline wasp69

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No.

Next!
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

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A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

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Offline thundley4

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Is a life sentence without parole cruel and unusual punishment for juveniles convicted of serious crimes?

I voted YES. Do the crime, pay the time.


:???:

Offline Zeus

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I can't go with a blanket No. There are always extenuating circumstances. The particulars of the crime have to always be considered.
It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Is a life sentence without parole cruel and unusual punishment for juveniles convicted of serious crimes?

I voted YES. Do the crime, pay the time.

Depending on what you mean by "Serious," no, it's not cruel and unusual.  If it would be an appropriate penalty for the same crime committed by an adult, then it's okay for a teen-ager.
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Offline Eupher

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The standard bleeding-heart argument for these types of questions involving youngsters is, "But...but...but they're not MATURE yet! Their BRAINS don't arrive in adulthood until they're 25!"

Then they throw all sorts of medical mumbo-jumbo in your face, written by academics and other bleeding-heart liberals that those kids are just victims of their own circumstances. The missing father, the crack ho mother, etc.

But I agree with Zeus -- gotta look at the extenuating circumstances to some level. But if the evidence shows a level of cruelty or incorrigibility, the perp is going to learn entirely new ways to torment, torture, rape and murder while in prison -- the least the justice system could do is provide a venue where the perp can practice those things on fellow inmates.
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Offline Rebel

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I'll go further. If there's a 15 year old thug that walks into a neighborhood store and robs and kills the owners? Fry that sumbitch.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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I'll go further. If there's a 15 year old thug that walks into a neighborhood store and robs and kills the owners? Fry that sumbitch.

We may disagree on rabbits. Agreed on that.
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Offline vesta111

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We may disagree on rabbits. Agreed on that.

Have to think about this, English and most of Europe had Draconian laws, an adult stealing bread was hung, when the thief was a 3-4 year old the convicted had sand bags tied to their legs to give enough weight to snap their neck.

Why are some 18 year olds called teenagers at times and Adults at others????   Age of the convicted is a problem, a 40 year old with an IQ of 75 is not insane but we have given Capital punishment to people with less IQ then that.

Old times of public hanging a thief ,the pickpocket's had a field day stealing as the people stood watching the execution.

Today we bitch about the Sharia law. Chopping off the hands of a 7 year old thief, stoning to death or public whipping of young girls accused of embarrassing their family's in one way or the other.  We are aghast when parents Kill their children for committing the horrid crime of disobedience, dressing or acting Western style.   Refusing to marry a chosen husband by the family that has accepted money from the suitor for her really causes problems. The kids know the harsh penalty of their bad actions, but still risk their lives to make their own decisions.

Children will get into almost every thing they can, Yes they may know right from wrong but are not thinking of the consequences.   We had a safety net years ago that a child was not an adult until they turned 21.   Most finished school at 18 still were the responsibility of the parents.

 We foolishly dropped the drinking age to 18 so the young adults were bringing booze on the school bus to share with the 16-17 year old. Now that was Cool the kids could vote but that idea ended in disaster.  A kid would go to bed at 17 and awake to find his family have put his clothing on the street and waved BY, BY.

No way did this benefit a child, the benefit was to the politicians that wanted their vote and the parents that were tired of supporting an ungratefully kid.

See what the Liberals have done to family life ?????

What have we done to our children, child at 8-10 makes the same mistake people 40 years older then they are, they get the same penalty ??

We need that 3 year gap between end of school and adulthood back.  We need to make the parents responsibly for their kids, give the parents back the authority they use to have to insure the kid was ready to do well in the world.

May as well go back to sand bagging and hanging kids as to locking them away for life.  And making the parents  responsible for the crap their kids do. 

They tried this in the Chicago projects at one time, if parents could or would not control their kids they were thrown out on the street.   Seemed to work well, unfortunately the Liberals raised a rucks and declared no one was  responsible for the actions of others. 

This is not a black and white issue, much history behind it, no child should live their life as a caged animal, the parent or those in charge of their well fare need to be held accountable as much as the child.

Piss me off, to think a child can be imprisoned for life for doing something that others do  3 times their age and get 10 years for.

Put a fork in me I am finally done ranting.  time for a stiff drink and a prayer for America.





 




Offline Rebel

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Vesta, you have a way of making a post completely in-****ing-discernible. we're talking about capital offenses here, not stealing a damn loaf of bread.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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....but you do keep it interesting and I do see you as an asset to the site. Lol
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline CG6468

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Depending on what you mean by "Serious," no, it's not cruel and unusual.  If it would be an appropriate penalty for the same crime committed by an adult, then it's okay for a teen-ager.

That fits in well.
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Offline vesta111

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Vesta, you have a way of making a post completely in-****ing-discernible. we're talking about capital offenses here, not stealing a damn loaf of bread.


But Rebel, stealing a loaf of bread WAS a capital offence back then, no questions asked, no quarter given. Be you 90 years old or 3 years old and starving the same punishment was handed out.

Why do you think people fled to America in the first place.??   You have heard of the Huguenot's that faced first a trial, then all their bones were broken ,then they were hung, along side all members of their family have you not??

Capital offence hung many a horse thief in America, Steal a cow or pig, to feed a starving family, same thing.

Capital offence in Salem Mass. meant if accused of being a witch, one was burned at the stake, unless one was smart and admitted the offence and went to prison after their land was confiscated by the Church, old Cotton Mather was a sly one.

Capital Offence means many things,  In the South blacks were hung just for speaking to a white woman. Not long ago but up to the 1950's, and lynch mobs into the 1960's.   Hell for all I know this may still be going on in out of the way back country.

Capital offence is now brought down to felony's, there must be hundreds of laws that are now considered felony's. Hard to keep us as they grow year to year.

We have these new laws that tell us if we are mugged by someone of another race we cannot protest and call them a dirty name.   ------ Get your hands off my little girl you dirty, what, once you use the race word in a moment of desperation, the attacker has the upper hand.   

So someone invades my home and I shoot them and they do not die but report I called them a bad name, who goes into federal investigation for a raciest crime ?????

All kinds of questions, would I have shot them had they been of my race, why did I use the naught word to them before or after I defended my life and my kids life????

Shit, Capital Crimes and felony's change every day.  Be you 8 years old or 48 years old, we are digressing to the very reason people came here to America in the first place.

 

Offline Rebel

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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Mr Mannn

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No. I've seen some of the heinous crimes kids are capable of. People who commit a crime like that are lost, they is no rehabilitation, or salvation awaiting him/her at a later date.

Society needs to be protected. Put the kid away for life or execute him. Far kinder than unleashing the animal back on society in a few years.

Offline CG6468

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Mr. Mann speaks the truth.
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Offline Celtic Rose

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While it may be true that the brain doesn't fully mature until the early 20's, there are certain activities (such as murder) where not a great deal of maturity is needed to realize that they are wrong.  I'm a fan of rehabilitation for younger criminals when possible, but in the case of cold blooded murder, pre-meditated murder without extenuating circumstances, etc. a life sentence or death penalty is appropriate in my mind. 

Offline Zeus

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Not to hijack the thread but I got a question.

If a crime is bad enough to warrant life without Parole why not just skip to the end game and execute the convicted ?
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Offline Ballygrl

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Offline Eupher

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Not to hijack the thread but I got a question.

If a crime is bad enough to warrant life without Parole why not just skip to the end game and execute the convicted ?

Because allegedly, the "punishment" of enduring three hots and a cot, along with anything else you'll need or want in prison (if you have the money and yeah, that includes drugs, alcohol, and anything else that prisoners aren't supposed to have) is a punishment beyond hell -- especially if you endure that cell every day for decades.

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Offline vesta111

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While it may be true that the brain doesn't fully mature until the early 20's, there are certain activities (such as murder) where not a great deal of maturity is needed to realize that they are wrong.  I'm a fan of rehabilitation for younger criminals when possible, but in the case of cold blooded murder, pre-meditated murder without extenuating circumstances, etc. a life sentence or death penalty is appropriate in my mind. 

Much of this is new world thinking here.    Kids are just not what we were in youth. 

When kids went nuts and killed in the past, they were considered monsters.   So different from others that they became  national sensations.  So odd that books and movies were written and played out as aberrations in life.

In the last 15-20 years the leap to murder and mayham has gone sky high.  At first we blamed Cartoons where the Road Runner and the Coyote seemed to survive everything.   But they all ways came back to life, so the kids that grew aggressive thought if they pushed someone off a cliff, pulled a very bad practical joke on another, the victim would not actually die as the idea of death being permanent was not in their mind.

Some where in the 1980's Dungeons and Dragons came about, My kids played the game for fun, others took it so seriously they committed suicide when another killed off their charactor.  ---Or they committed violence against the game player that killed them off.    To be killed off was to become excluded from the game and friends.

Little by little the games evolved into good guy-bad guy and the kids with computers could not only mentally kill off an enemy but see and cause the death with a remote control.  Become immune to blood and violence, control themselves the amount of suffering they could cause to the enemy.

Some of the  "Games " are so realistic -----Gone is the Froggy games in an Arcade but now at home realistic cartoons that gave me the creeps.    In came the Programs of realistic sex, give a command and the figures reacted as you wish.

So kids as young as 5-6  now can play some of the most violent games learn to shoot and stab their enemy, control others lives or deaths.  This is not good for kids that are in a suition of being bullied at school or in an abusive home life.

This is no longer an aberration for the kids, this is hours of practice of learning how to control others through violence and how to dehumanise their victims.

A 14 year old that has played these games, all so real life to them has been exposed since they were 5-6 in 2002 and have had 10 years of this expouser, 10 years as the games became more and more real life to them.

You Tube has had mega films on what happens when an 8-12 year old is shut down from playing games.  Some become Phycotic, destroy their rooms, attack parents, the games have become their reality and being told they cannot play any longer causes a mental break from reality they have and the reality of those that take that away.

Kids cannot be treated by society to the same punishment as those that are 30 years older and receive much less punishment for reasons that the Adult has never been in trouble before and has a family to support or owns a business.

Kids act on their  reality, environment and what has been feed into their mind so far.  They have no other reality for good or bad, still too young to ever be in the reality of an Adult that can make a choice of their actions.

We have summer camps that take kids away from the computer games and their parents that are ---MY poor Baby, stick these kids into the reality for 3 months of no technology, and learn about trying to use their own Witt's when hungry or cold.   Force these kids to solve their own problems with their own thinking and devise from their own mind how to survive.  No mommy or daddy to bail them out when in a tight spot, no doctors or lawyers to come marching in, kids as young a 5-6 learn reality.   Some of these programs are called the BOY SCOUTS and GIRL SCOUTS .