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Offline CG6468

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Into the Abyss?
« on: March 19, 2012, 07:59:02 PM »
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The U.S. Cruises Toward a 2013 Fiscal Cliff
As tax cuts expire and spending falls, the economy will be hit with a 3.5% decline in gross domestic demand.

By ALAN S. BLINDER

At some point, the spectacle America is now calling a presidential campaign will turn away from comedy and start focusing on things that really matter—such as the "fiscal cliff" our federal government is rapidly approaching.

The what? A cliff is something from which you don't want to fall. But as I'll explain shortly, a number of decisions to kick the budgetary can down the road have conspired to place a remarkably large fiscal contraction on the calendar for January 2013—unless Congress takes action to avoid it.

Well, that gives Congress plenty of time, right? Yes. But if you're like me, the phrase "unless Congress takes action" sends a chill down your spine—especially since the cliff came about because of Congress's past inability to agree.

Remember the political donnybrook we had last month over extending the Bush tax cuts, the two-point reduction in the payroll tax, and long-term unemployment benefits? That debate was an echo of the even bigger donnybrook our elected representatives had just two months earlier—and which they "solved" at the last moment by kicking the can two months down the road. And that one, you may recall, came about because they were unable to reach agreement on these matters in December 2010. At that time, President Obama and the Republicans kicked one can down the road 12 months (the payroll tax) and another 24 months (the Bush tax cuts).

The result of all this can kicking is that Congress must make all those decisions by January 2013—or defer them yet again. If the House and Senate don't act in time, a list of things will happen that are anathema either to Republicans or Democrats or both. The Bush tax cuts will expire. The temporary payroll tax cut will end. Unemployment benefits will be severely curtailed. And all on Jan. 1, 2013. Happy New Year!

Term limits! Can anyone spell, TERM LIMITS"???????????

Falling, falling, falling............ And failing, failing, failing
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 11:13:39 AM »
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At some point, the spectacle America is now calling a presidential campaign will turn away from comedy and start focusing on things that really matter—such as the "fiscal cliff" our federal government is rapidly approaching.

He lost my "Willing suspension of disbelief" at that point.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 12:32:21 PM »
Quote from: CG6468 on March 19, 2012, 07:59:02 PM
Term limits! Can anyone spell, TERM LIMITS"???????????

Falling, falling, falling............ And failing, failing, failing

Term limits will help in this type situation how ?

I'm sorry put the more some of you folks post the more I'm entertaining thoughts of Tighter voting controls or some such. No Offense CG but term limits would have exactly zero positive effect on this type situation,if anything may possibly  exasperate it more.
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It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline CG6468

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 04:00:15 PM »
We have to start somewhere.

Term limits are our only hope of taking out the garbage. The garbage has too many hands in its pockets to allow for a fair election, so simple elections don't work. With term limits, no matter how much support the garbage gets, it will still be gone.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 04:39:52 PM »
Quote from: CG6468 on March 20, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
We have to start somewhere.

Term limits are our only hope of taking out the garbage. The garbage has too many hands in its pockets to allow for a fair election, so simple elections don't work. With term limits, no matter how much support the garbage gets, it will still be gone.

How do you propose getting around the 1st,10th and possibly the 11th amendments to the US Constitution or the constitutions of the several 50 states. The only Federal election we have is for President.
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If California wants to send an idiot to Washington for life that's their call,same for any other state.
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It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline rich_t

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 06:17:45 PM »
Quote from: Zeus on March 20, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
How do you propose getting around the 1st,10th and possibly the 11th amendments to the US Constitution or the constitutions of the several 50 states. The only Federal election we have is for President.
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If California wants to send an idiot to Washington for life that's their call,same for any other state.

It's called a Constitutional Amendment.  There is a process for doing so.

BTW...  There is no Federal election for President other than the electoral college.  When you go to the polls, you aren't really voting for the President.  You are voting to indicate which way you desire your electoral delegates to vote.

The electoral college exists for a reason.  We ARE NOT a Democracy.
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"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Zeus

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 08:25:11 PM »
Quote from: rich_t on March 20, 2012, 06:17:45 PM
It's called a Constitutional Amendment.  There is a process for doing so.

BTW...  There is no Federal election for President other than the electoral college.  When you go to the polls, you aren't really voting for the President.  You are voting to indicate which way you desire your electoral delegates to vote.

The electoral college exists for a reason.  We ARE NOT a Democracy.

Never have been. Did you use to think so until someone corrected you.

You're attempting to split hairs with your EC Meme. True the EC elects the The President but the EC has jived with the popular vote in all presidential elections except for three. By the way the EC has nothing to do with whether or not we are a democracy or a Republic for that matter.

Good luck on the 3 US constitutional amendments and 50 state constitutional amendments.  should be done in oh about 200 yrs  :panic:
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It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline CG6468

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 12:33:14 AM »
Quote from: rich_t on March 20, 2012, 06:17:45 PM
It's called a Constitutional Amendment.  There is a process for doing so.

BTW...  There is no Federal election for President other than the electoral college.  When you go to the polls, you aren't really voting for the President.  You are voting to indicate which way you desire your electoral delegates to vote.

The electoral college exists for a reason.  We ARE NOT a Democracy.

AND the electoral delegates don't have to vote for anyone specific.
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Offline rich_t

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 05:43:00 AM »
Quote from: Zeus on March 20, 2012, 08:25:11 PM
Never have been. Did you use to think so until someone corrected you.

You're attempting to split hairs with your EC Meme. True the EC elects the The President but the EC has jived with the popular vote in all presidential elections except for three. By the way the EC has nothing to do with whether or not we are a democracy or a Republic for that matter.

Good luck on the 3 US constitutional amendments and 50 state constitutional amendments.  should be done in oh about 200 yrs  :panic:

Of course it doesn't.  A little thing called the Constitution has that covered.

I don't know why you think that it would take amending all 50 state Constitutions.  Did they amend them when the 17th Amendment was enacted?  I've never researched it.

Why do you think it would take 3 different Amendments to enact Congressional term limits?  It only took one to enact Presidential Term limits.
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"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Zeus

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Re: Into the Abyss?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 11:23:20 AM »
Quote from: rich_t on March 21, 2012, 05:43:00 AM
Of course it doesn't.  A little thing called the Constitution has that covered.

I don't know why you think that it would take amending all 50 state Constitutions.  Did they amend them when the 17th Amendment was enacted?  I've never researched it.
Why do you think it would take 3 different Amendments to enact Congressional term limits?  It only took one to enact Presidential Term limits.

There are arguments the 17th should never have happened but am not sufficiently enough versed on the issue to advance an argument of substance. It wasn't a restriction on the people though it gave them more power over elected officials.

The President is elected by all the people of the several 50 states etc. Congress members elected by the individual states

he 1st amendment protects freedom of speech, political speech by way of elections also protect right to petition the govt through chosen elected officials.

10th amendment should be self evident

11th Immunity of states from suits from out-of-state citizens and foreigners not living within the state borders. Lays the foundation for sovereign immunity

I suppose it is possible term limits could be done with a single amendment . just giving the federal govt more power over the people.
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It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.
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