primitives discuss academics and athletics; bash SEC, Big 12 as usual

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=215x188712

Oh my.

The condom primitive, the professional student, from Iowa City:

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Wed Oct-19-11 12:45 PM
Original message

Academics & Athletics: The 400 Best Schools in the World
   
Let's take a look at the Big Conferences (not including the Ivy League, obviously), shall we? Congratulations to the Big Ten, truly America's Premier Athletic but more importantly ACADEMIC Conference for putting 11 out of your 12 members on this distinguished list. An aggregate score of 100. Just awesome!!

Fabulous job to the PAC 12 for having 10 of your institutions included. Most excellent. Aggregate score of 151. The ACC comes in with 9 schools with an average ranking of 166. Very, very good.

The Big 12. A whopping 4 schools are represented. Score? 223. Ummm. I don't know.

The Big East. At least you have 5. But 281?!? I don't know what to say.

Finally, the SEC. I'm almost surprised you have 5. But that's the bright spot. Average score of 290. Gosh, fellas. Knowledge is good. Really. Well, then. Who talks the talk and who walks the walk?

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universitie...

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Wed Oct-19-11 12:53 PM
Response to Original message

1. And one more thing. Hello? Notre Dame?
   
A ranking of 223. Below every single Big Ten school with the exception of Nebraska. Hey, guys. If we need ya', we'll be sure to give you a hollar. Okay?

lazarus DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-19-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message

5. interesting how people talk about academics when they don't win championships.

It's football and money. Academics is a distraction the college presidents and NCAA use as an excuse to do what they want. Did the Mountain West and CUSA merge for better academics?

Bobby Bowden actually said in an interview that they applied to the SEC for 30 years, then decided they didn't fit the academics there and switched over to the ACC. Bull. They knew they could dominate the ACC and not the SEC in football, pure and simple. Academics was just an excuse. As always.

I don't know why we're talking academics in the Sports forum anyway. Take it to Education.

lazarus DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-19-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #10

13. that affects the team, so it would go in Sports
   
but who has the highest graduation rate? Relatively meaningless. Who has the highest grades? Last time I checked, GPA wasn't included in the BCS formula.

For instance, at an elite school like Bama, quite a few of the players are leaving after three years to go pro. That can't help the graduation rate, but is it because the players are academically deficient, or because they want to make tens of millions of dollars?

Don't forget, Bill Gates is a college drop out. If my grand daughter, who is going to be an awesome beach volleyball player, has the opportunity to make big money on the circuit after three years of college, I'll say go for it. The point of college is to get a good job and make good money. If you can do that without a degree, you've saved time and money.

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Wed Oct-19-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13

14. You can damn well guarantee that Academics is an important part of the Expansion issue.
   
At least in the Big Ten. Hey. If the SEC picks up Missouri at #371 it will improve your average. Oops. On second thought. Maybe not. Texas A&M is #158, though. That helps.

lazarus DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-20-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #14

25. I disagree
   
they love to talk about academics, because it maintains the fiction of the "student-athlete", which was coined by the NCAA to get out of paying for disability when an athlete was injured. "They're not employees, they're student-athletes." That was the scam, and it's still going on today.

The Big Ten doesn't want Missouri. It has nothing to do with Mizzou's academics, it's the fact that Mizzou brings nothing to the table for ratings or recruiting, nor is it a traditional powerhouse like Nebraska. The SEC really doesn't want Mizzou either, for the same reasons. We took A&M because that gives us a foothold for recruiting in Texas, giving the SEC all three of the top states for recruits. Academics, as usual, had nothing to do with it. It's all football money.

Money uber alles. Remember that. That's college football.

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #25

26. As far as television ratings go for Mizzou, the KC and St. Louis markets are pretty substantial.
   
Nope. The Big Ten was clearly not interested in Mizzou for some reason. As far as the SEC goes I hear some of the big wigs at the schools are concerned with travel costs. Clearly, a factor. Of course, it comes down to money. Again, the Big Ten Channel initiated this whole expansion issue. Delaney will have to move, eventually. But the schools have to be the right fit. And academics will be a large part of that fit.

lazarus DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-20-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #26

28. I guess the question is, why?
   
Why does academics matter to what is, in essence, a money-making alliance of schools based primarily on region for sports? If I was looking for the best school to go to for engineering, I would say, "Gee, I need to pick a Big Ten or Pac-12 school," I'd be looking for the specific school that fits my needs.

And was Nebraska that great an addition from an academics POV?

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #28

29. That's a question for Mr. Delaney, laz.
   
Mike Slive said that he could have 10 teams in a minute in the SEC. The same holds true for the Big Ten. Big Jim kept his mouth shut the whole time this last go round. Interesting to see what happens in the next five years. As far as the Nebraska deal, time was most definately of the essence. Nebraska wanted out of the Big 12 and Texas. The Big Ten acted. At the time, Big Red was in the AAU. They fell out after they joined.

madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Wed Oct-19-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message

16. How the hell did you calculate all that shit, condem??
   
That must have been some high level ****ing math that you took at Iowa!!

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Wed Oct-19-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #16

17. LOL, mad.
   
My school isn't on the list. Probably around 472 or so. I'm surprised no one's called me out on the use of aggregate not once but twice. Sheer stupidity, mad.

1gobluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-20-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message

20. Which Big Ten school didn't make the cut?
   
I hope you all noticed which one is ranked the highest.

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #20

21. Nebraska.
   
They're a bit of a different situation, though. A Land grant University so if you are a native Nebraskan and can afford the tuition, you're in.

http://admissions.unl.edu/requirements/Index.aspx

caraher (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #21

22. I hadn't heard nearly-open admission defined a land grant university
   
Lots of Big Ten schools are land grant universities:

Michigan State
Penn State
Illinois
Purdue
Minnesota
Ohio State
Wisconsin

From what I can tell from your link, they're a more selective than you describe for traditional freshman admission. They have a set of core courses including 4 years each of math and English, 3 years each of science and social sciences, and 2 years of foreign language. And you need to clear a somewhat low bar in terms of either class rank or test scores:

In addition to meeting the above core course requirements, traditional freshmen students seeking admission to the University should:

* be ranked in the upper one-half of their high school class, OR
* have received an ACT composite score of 20 or higher*, OR
* have received a SAT total score (Critical Reading and Math only) of 950 or higher*.

Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #22

23. Absolutely right, caraher.
   
Some ****ing shitty information from my better half. Should have verified it a little better.

happyiowan Donating Member (643 posts) Thu Oct-20-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #22

24. Shitty Info Other Half Checking In...
   
Wow - you're so right you have to be a C minus student or have an average ACT or below average SAT score. I don't have the correct vocabulary for their admissions program, but it is significantly more lenient for Nebraska residents.

caraher (1000+ posts)  Thu Oct-20-11 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #24

30. For sure, the bar isn't at all high
   
I'd imagine that the core curriculum list is the main barrier for weak students given how low the test scores are.

[USA4ME]

Doesn't matter.  Game of the Year is still coming down to LSU vs. Alabama.  Don't miss it.

.

[JohnnyReb]

I don't watch or care much for football be it high school, college or pro...BUT my hats off to the football teams of the US military academies, ARMY, NAVY & USAF.

Maybe if the military academies would take DUmmies, drunks, dopers, rapist and thieves they would get better scores.

[docstew]

I don't watch or care much for football be it high school, college or pro...BUT my hats off to the football teams of the US military academies, ARMY, NAVY & USAF.

Maybe if the military academies would take DUmmies, drunks, dopers, rapist and thieves they would get better scores.

never happen. Graduates of those schools are required to be able to get a security clearance. DUmmies stand no chance, can't get past the question "Have you ever advocated for the violent overthrow of the US gov't?"

[JohnnyReb]

never happen. Graduates of those schools are required to be able to get a security clearance. DUmmies stand no chance, can't get past the question "Have you ever advocated for the violent overthrow of the US gov't?"

I was in my stupid way trying to get the point across that the cadets were first and foremost fine young men with brains first ....then athletes.

If all college athletes were held to the same high standards as the military cadets are, I believe the Military foorball teams would run all over the others.