Author Topic: DUmbasses discuss realties even more alternate than the one they already inhabit  (Read 1710 times)

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Online SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Proud Liberal Dem (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 02:23 PM
Original message
Salon's latest silly counterfactual: Gore might have invaded Iraq too after 9/11 
 http://www.salon.com/news/al_gore/index....ident_iraq

I don't know what the writers (in this case, Steve Kornacki) at Salon.com are smoking but apparently Mr. Kornacki thinks (because-according to a poll he cites apparently a lot of people seem to believe that things wouldn't have been better/different last decade if Gore had been POTUS) that Gore might well have also invaded Iraq just like Dubya did in the wake of 9/11.

<snip>

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MissHoneychurch  (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I do believe
 that with a President Gore we would live in a much friendlier world now.

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TheWraith  (1000+ posts)      Tue Aug-30-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
44. I think that that is a staggeringly huge understatement. :)
 And yet, some people continue to justify the Nader 2000 disaster, and regurgitate the exact same "No difference between Democrats and Republicans!" mantra that handed the White House over to Bush. 

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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts)      Tue Aug-30-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. 1. I don't believe the attack of 9/11 would have occurred under Gore's watch.
 2. Even if 9/11 had occurred, Gore would have rallied the nation, just as FDR did after Pearl Harbor, and Bush did after 9/11 but he wouldn't have misdirected our anger and energy against Iraq and squandered the good will directed toward our nation from the rest of Earth.

3. The Republican House wouldn't have impeached during a time of war but even if they had, the Senate wouldn't have convicted.

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Xipe Totec  (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. If Gore had been president, there would have been no 9/11 nt

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BeFree (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. Headline, Aug. 7. 2001: We wish
 President Gore today issued an all points bulletin for suspected foreign terrorists who are in this country to use hijacked airplanes as a terror tool.

Having been briefed yesterday by the CIA concerning the terrorists, President Gore has taken immediate steps to round up the foreigners who may be plotting against us.

Repuglycans in the Senate claim he is just fear-mongering.

"A great tragedy has been averted thanks to our prompt action on the intelligence delivered to me toady [sic]" said President Al Gore in a special press conference yesterday, on Aug. 7. 2001.

He's referring to the Aug 8, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing.

One can only wonder what would have happened to Bush if he attempted the above course of action.

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MadHound  (1000+ posts)      Tue Aug-30-11 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
35. I don't know if Gore would have gone after Iraq like Bush did,
 But he would have gone after Iraq in one form or fashion, much like his mentor Clinton did, with sanctions, thrice weekly bombings, and yes, perhaps military invasion.

There was too large a pool of oil at stake.


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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts)      Tue Aug-30-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Gore would have aggressively worked to wean our nation away from oil dependence.
 I believe Gore would have supported Saddam Hussein's ouster but not in invading Iraq, there was simply no cause, no preeminent threat from that nation.
Gore understood far better than Bush or Cheney the geo-political complications of the Middle East.

My own gut feeling is that if Gore had been President in Office, the Arab Spring may have taken place sooner than it did.

Dammit! If we hadn't helped Bush steal the election we could have been living in PairADykes--I mean--paradise.

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Xithras (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Bill Clintons policies led to the deaths of nearly a million Iraqi's.
 Clinton didn't need to invade them to make their lives miserable. He simply deprived them of food, medicine, technology, clean drinking water, and pretty much everything else needed to maintain a modern society. The UN put the death toll of the sanctions at nearly 1 million people, including several hundred thousand children. It's also now public knowledge, and former SoS Madeline Albright has admitted, that the sanctions were only kept in place because of U.S. pressure. In her own words, " I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it."

According to the WHO, the total Iraqi death count due to warfare during the Bush regime was up to 223,000 people.

Al Gore promised to continue Bill Clintons policies. Given the numbers above, many Iraqi's might argue with the premise that they'd have been better off without the invasion. I opposed, and still oppose, the war, but this idea that Clinton/Gore would have treated the Iraqi people better is a rewriting of history. The Clinton policies were a nightmare for average Iraqi's.

So, according to DUmbass meth-a-matics: between Clinton and Bush we've killed 2,000,000 Iraqis, which is 1:12.

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EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. Get serious
 Does no one remember the Iraq invasion? It went like this:

9/11
Bush: Iraq did it!
Everyone else on the planet: No, Iraq didn't do it.
Bush: Yes they did! They have weapons of Mass Destruction!
Everyone else on the planet: No, they don't.
Iraq: No, we don't. Look if you don't believe us.
Bush: Yes you do!
Inspectors: Nope, not there.
Bush: Well **** you inspectors! You're getting out because Iraq has WMDs!
Inspectors: They don't.
Bush: You're fired!
UN Security Council: Iraq is led by a jerk, but they don't have WMDs.
Powell: Iraq does too have WMDs (imlying) and here's proof (imlying) in this satellite photo (imstilllying)
Bush: See!
UN Security Council: Wrong.
Bush: Iraq is trying to build a nuke!
Valerie Plame: No they aren't.
Bush's fixer: **** you and your cover.
Bush: See! I told you!

Do you really think Gore would have done this? The thing that sticks out in my mind the most about the whole fiasco was how asinine the rationales became for invading Iraq. The bush administration was acting like a 3 year old trying to wheedle a cookie out of a parent that keeps saying no. Every day they would make up a completely different rationale or bring a different "fact" to light, and every time the conclusion was "We have to invade Iraq now". They would have drawn that conclusion even if Iraq had surrendered before the fact.

I remember it being nothing like that. But then I've been sober for more than a decade and a half.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1843854#1843931

You can't even call this shit revisionist. Revisionists tweak around the edges and spin what they can.

This is shit made-up from wholecloth and/or chemically-induced dementia.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

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They "believe" and "think" things are whatever they want them to be, just like the emtpy-suit candidate they backed in 2008.  They "believed" and "thought" he was great, too.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline thundley4

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WTF?  These DUmmies believe that 9-11 would not have happened under Gore?  It's an established fact that the plans were well underway under president Clitoon.  Al Qaeda was going to carry out the attack regardless of who was in office.

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MissHoneychurch  (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. I do believe
 that with a President Gore we would live in a much friendlier world now.

I guess that is why US standing in the world has fallen since the Won has taken office.  The world loves the US under DemonRat presidents.

Offline Freeper

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9/11
Bush: Iraq did it!
Everyone else on the planet: No, Iraq didn't do it.
Bush: Yes they did! They have weapons of Mass Destruction!
Everyone else on the planet: No, they don't.
Iraq: No, we don't. Look if you don't believe us.
Bush: Yes you do!
Inspectors: Nope, not there.
Bush: Well **** you inspectors! You're getting out because Iraq has WMDs!
Inspectors: They don't.
Bush: You're fired!
UN Security Council: Iraq is led by a jerk, but they don't have WMDs.
Powell: Iraq does too have WMDs (imlying) and here's proof (imlying) in this satellite photo (imstilllying)
Bush: See!
UN Security Council: Wrong.
Bush: Iraq is trying to build a nuke!
Valerie Plame: No they aren't.
Bush's fixer: **** you and your cover.
Bush: See! I told you!

Total bullshit! Not once did anyone say that Iraq was behind 9-11, not once did anyone say that he had the weapons yet, if you morons had watched the news and heard what they were saying, you would know that the idea was to get him before he had them. The notion that Bush lied is also bullshit, the whole world including Clinton had said that Saddam was working on them. I don't know if it's just them being partisan hacks or the dope they ingest constantly that makes them rewrite history so often.



I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline Freeper

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WTF?  These DUmmies believe that 9-11 would not have happened under Gore?  It's an established fact that the plans were well underway under president Clitoon.  Al Qaeda was going to carry out the attack regardless of who was in office.

I guess that is why US standing in the world has fallen since the Won has taken office.  The world loves the US under DemonRat presidents.

I shall splain, if Albert Gore had been president in 2001 then he would have lead the entire world in a verse or 2 of kumbaya, then he would have bought the world a coke, and everyone would have smiled, and there would be peace for 1000 years. 
I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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I normally enjoy alternate history SF, but that one failed the plausibility test.  Especially Xipe Totec's remarkably stupid and uninformed comment.  If you're going to write this genre, you need to use the historical facts up until your point of departure as givens, not move the goalposts like that.  Al Quaeda started the wheels in motion for the 9-11 attack well before the 2000 election was held. 

Terror networks do not have nuclear-powered aircraft carrier task forces at their disposal to dispatch on round-the-world attacks on a week's notice, they have to move money, people, and things piece by piece over a protracted time through a network of stovepiped safe points, all as unobtrusively as possible.  An operation like 9-11 would take something like 18-24 months from the first overt starting moves to the actual attack.   
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That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

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I normally enjoy alternate history SF...

I would hasten to add that with everything from Mogadishu to the embassay bombings etc. coupled with Clinton's ham-fisted, half-hearted Tomohawk strikes against UBL the plan would have gone forward especially because Clinton's "deputy-commander" had inherited the WH.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline BEG

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I think Gore would have sucked even more as President than Obama has (for different reasons), if that is even possible.

Offline Vagabond

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Xithras (1000+ posts)        Tue Aug-30-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Bill Clintons policies led to the deaths of nearly a million Iraqi's.
 Clinton didn't need to invade them to make their lives miserable. He simply deprived them of food, medicine, technology, clean drinking water, and pretty much everything else needed to maintain a modern society. The UN put the death toll of the sanctions at nearly 1 million people, including several hundred thousand children. It's also now public knowledge, and former SoS Madeline Albright has admitted, that the sanctions were only kept in place because of U.S. pressure. In her own words, " I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it."

According to the WHO, the total Iraqi death count due to warfare during the Bush regime was up to 223,000 people.

Al Gore promised to continue Bill Clintons policies. Given the numbers above, many Iraqi's might argue with the premise that they'd have been better off without the invasion. I opposed, and still oppose, the war, but this idea that Clinton/Gore would have treated the Iraqi people better is a rewriting of history. The Clinton policies were a nightmare for average Iraqi's.

 :bs: No such thing is true.  Bill Clinton, under resolutions agreed to by your vaunted United Nations, allowed Iraq to sell as much oil as it wanted, pursuant to Iraq's international agreements.  This means that if Saddam Hussein were an honest man, he could have bought all the food, medicine, and civilian scope technology he wanted.  Instead he used the money to build palaces for himself and his cronies, buy weapons illegal for him to posess, oppress the Iraqi Shias and Kurds (I thought you DUmmies liked oppressed people),and finance the Palestinians against Israel.

Baghdad had all of the fresh water filter and pumping stations that it needed.  Seven to be exact.  Six of the seven had been redirected to Saddam's palace complex to make the lakes safe for Saddam to swim.

I happened to tour Victory Over America Palace with an Iraqi farmer who lived two or three miles beyond the complex walls.  He pointed out his home from the balcony.  He told us how the rest of Iraq died of thirst, and knew nothing of all the water Saddam was holding in the lakes.  I have a picture showing his farm, but need help posting it.

I guess oppression doesn't matter to a DUmmie as long as America can't be blamed.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline Vagabond

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Total bullshit! Not once did anyone say that Iraq was behind 9-11, not once did anyone say that he had the weapons yet, if you morons had watched the news and heard what they were saying, you would know that the idea was to get him before he had them. The notion that Bush lied is also bullshit, the whole world including Clinton had said that Saddam was working on them. I don't know if it's just them being partisan hacks or the dope they ingest constantly that makes them rewrite history so often.

They also refuse to see all the WMD shells we did find in Iraq.  A lot of them.  One intelligence agency did state that Iraq did not seem to have a current WMD program.  Gore likely would have decided to invade Iraq given the same evidence and concerns.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline Freeper

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They also refuse to see all the WMD shells we did find in Iraq.  A lot of them.  One intelligence agency did state that Iraq did not seem to have a current WMD program.  Gore likely would have decided to invade Iraq given the same evidence and concerns.

I don't think Gore would have. The carbon footprint would have been too big.
I may not lock my doors while sitting at a red light and a black man is near, but I sure as hell grab on tight to my wallet when any democrats are close by.

Offline Duke Nukum

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I think Gore would have sucked even more as President than Obama has (for different reasons), if that is even possible.
I have to agree. First he put himself first, before the country after he lost the election. Then he became psychically unstable, gained 100 lbs and dug in on the whole Global Warming(TM) scam.

Actually, I think he was already psychically unstable leading up to the election.
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