The state of public education in America - open discussion

[Airwolf]

Teachers' unions have destroyed education in this country -- the US DOE had very little to do with it.   

If there is controversial materials/curricula being used in your District then lobby parents to unite and give your school boards hell.  They set policy -- make them change it.

well, it sounds easy enough to "set policy and make them change it" but the unions are way ahead of us.

our last school district could not get rid of entrenched board members because the teachers union would come out en masse to vote to keep those board members in place.

do you think liberal strongholds stay in liberal hands by chance? in a very blue area such as seattle, the Dems/lefties and unions outvote the parents by a large margin.

i gave up and am not looking back. i have more war stories here than i have time to write, but suffice it to say, its too broken to fix in seattle. i encourage people to homeschool or go private if they can afford it. there is no other option here.

Oh I don't know,there's always the nuclear option.LOL.

Now to get back to the thread. The Unions have a strangle hold on the system. If it was up to me ,Tenure would go out the window. No one has a right to a job and then proceeds by whatever means to keep failing at it just because their fat ass has spent time there and produced nothing. I don't care what job you have ,be it a teacher ,politician or gardener for Elvis Presleys gravesite,if you fail to do your job you need to be job hunting.

[Lauri]

We ask schools to do too much: teach, parent, instill some sort of values, give nutrition, give shots, give medical treatment, give vaccinations, prepare students for the workplace, etc. All in 6 hours a day, 180 days a year.


Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do.

And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

[Lauri]

The US spends the most per student in the world yet ours is the worst among industrialized nations so more money is not the answer. Why can't we just throw out our current system and just install South Korea or Norway's system?

With English of course.

i think Japan's is considered to be the best for math and science ..

[Lauri]

Teachers' unions have destroyed education in this country -- the US DOE had very little to do with it.   

If there is controversial materials/curricula being used in your District then lobby parents to unite and give your school boards hell.  They set policy -- make them change it.

well, it sounds easy enough to "set policy and make them change it" but the unions are way ahead of us.

our last school district could not get rid of entrenched board members because the teachers union would come out en masse to vote to keep those board members in place.

do you think liberal strongholds stay in liberal hands by chance? in a very blue area such as seattle, the Dems/lefties and unions outvote the parents by a large margin.

i gave up and am not looking back. i have more war stories here than i have time to write, but suffice it to say, its too broken to fix in seattle. i encourage people to homeschool or go private if they can afford it. there is no other option here.

Oh I don't know,there's always the nuclear option.LOL.

Now to get back to the thread. The Unions have a strangle hold on the system. If it was up to me ,Tenure would go out the window. No one has a right to a job and then proceeds by whatever means to keep failing at it just because their fat ass has spent time there and produced nothing. I don't care what job you have ,be it a teacher ,politician or gardener for Elvis Presleys gravesite,if you fail to do your job you need to be job hunting.

yep! we just ousted the head of our private school ..well, the board did. and a few parents got all twisted up and left, but i think the drama will leave with them, so no biggie.

getting rid of teachers ought to be as easy as firing someone for incompetence in the private sector.. but the unions screwed up public education long before NCLB came about.. NCLB was possibly just the final stumbling before the entire thing crashes down.

[Splashdown]

Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do. [/b]
And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

Nobody stopped the schools from doing it. The public school system is broken. And as far as medical treatment goes, for many students, the school nurse/specialist is THE medical professional the kid sees. Parents sign the forms, and, often, give up their parenting duties. School nurses, while they don't prescribe the medicine, are the ones who dole it out.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

I never said the values the schools are instilling were good values!

I agree with you, but when a child is suspended for hugging a classmate because that is a sexual act, but children are given condoms in schools, you tell me whether schools are instilling the liberals' values.

[DixieBelle]

Lauri, I totally agree with your take on things.

[Chris_]

Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do. [/b]
And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

Nobody stopped the schools from doing it. The public school system is broken. And as far as medical treatment goes, for many students, the school nurse/specialist is THE medical professional the kid sees. Parents sign the forms, and, often, give up their parenting duties. School nurses, while they don't prescribe the medicine, are the ones who dole it out.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

I never said the values the schools are instilling were good values!

I agree with you, but when a child is suspended for hugging a classmate because that is a sexual act, but children are given condoms in schools, you tell me whether schools are instilling the liberals' values.

...and although "Johnny can't read", he must be promoted to the next grade to maintain his "self esteem", we have more liberal values.   

[formerlurker]

No Child Left Behind needs to be completely thrown out. Or at least heavily revised.

It has served its purpose.  It woke up the establishment.  Sure you hear bitching about how all that is happening now is "preparing for the tests".  Before NCLB, they were doing nothing but babysitting and waiting for the next social promotion.

This time, since we are going to have the federal government diddling with our local schools, something positive came out of it.  Not much, but it was a start. 

What actual positives have resulted thus far due to that program?  I admit that I may have missed any.

I covered that in the first paragraph. 

You made a blanket statememt.

I am asking for more specific details concerning the good done.

a very plugged in parent in my neck of the woods considered NCLB a sort of "Trojan Horse" to put a harsh spotlight on how bad our schools had become under Dem rule the past 40 years.

I'd say it worked, but I dont know that Bush 'strategized' it that way. Bush was somewhat hoping that his signing of Teddy Kennedy's legislation was a reach across the aisle to the Dems. Well, as we all know.. that certainly didnt happen.

But it had the unintended consequence of showing how teachers just teach to the tests and that the kids arent learning as much as we thought they could.

Its been a great program for enlightening ALL politicians as to how bad the problem really is.. but I dont expect Bush or any other president to really make a difference in how it changes. That is up to parents to leave public education and homeschool or go the private route and let the system collapse in on itself.

Not all public school districts are bad so I am not going to paint them all with the same brush.   Catholics schools in my state cannot hold a candle to public education.  We aren't doing too shabby here.   Perfect?  Nah, but our children are getting a good education and that is what I care most about.

Parents uniting is a very powerful force to wreckon with in regard to School Committees.  Would it make a difference in NYC?  probably not.  However it would in most other Districts. 

I stated before that teachers' unions are destroying public education in this country, and that is a damn shame.

[Lauri]

Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do. [/b]
And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

Nobody stopped the schools from doing it. The public school system is broken. And as far as medical treatment goes, for many students, the school nurse/specialist is THE medical professional the kid sees. Parents sign the forms, and, often, give up their parenting duties. School nurses, while they don't prescribe the medicine, are the ones who dole it out.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

I never said the values the schools are instilling were good values!

I agree with you, but when a child is suspended for hugging a classmate because that is a sexual act, but children are given condoms in schools, you tell me whether schools are instilling the liberals' values.

ok, then we are in agreement here.. just using different words I think.

as for the parents not stopping the schools? In my neck of the woods we just keep voting down the school bonds cause most of it never gets to the kids anyway - but the administrations seem to find other ways to raise our taxes without our consent.

its a hostage situation at this point and its definitely broken. i dont consider private school a luxory any longer; i consider it a lifeline for our kid for the future.

[formerlurker]

Teachers' unions have destroyed education in this country -- the US DOE had very little to do with it.   

If there is controversial materials/curricula being used in your District then lobby parents to unite and give your school boards hell.  They set policy -- make them change it.

well, it sounds easy enough to "set policy and make them change it" but the unions are way ahead of us.

our last school district could not get rid of entrenched board members because the teachers union would come out en masse to vote to keep those board members in place.

do you think liberal strongholds stay in liberal hands by chance? in a very blue area such as seattle, the Dems/lefties and unions outvote the parents by a large margin.

i gave up and am not looking back. i have more war stories here than i have time to write, but suffice it to say, its too broken to fix in seattle. i encourage people to homeschool or go private if they can afford it. there is no other option here.

Oh I don't know,there's always the nuclear option.LOL.

Now to get back to the thread. The Unions have a strangle hold on the system. If it was up to me ,Tenure would go out the window. No one has a right to a job and then proceeds by whatever means to keep failing at it just because their fat ass has spent time there and produced nothing. I don't care what job you have ,be it a teacher ,politician or gardener for Elvis Presleys gravesite,if you fail to do your job you need to be job hunting.

I totally agree.

[Lauri]

Lauri, I totally agree with your take on things.

yeah, you and i usually line up on education issues     i just wish i could find one of those 'first rate' public school systems here in the northwest.. 

[formerlurker]

We ask schools to do too much: teach, parent, instill some sort of values, give nutrition, give shots, give medical treatment, give vaccinations, prepare students for the workplace, etc. All in 6 hours a day, 180 days a year.


Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do.

And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

Actually they do.  School nurses regularly give insulin shots, check sugar levels, and adminster whatever else is required by health plans which is dictated by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.

Note that school districts are reimbursed for the cost of these nurses duties by Medicaid.

[Lauri]

No Child Left Behind needs to be completely thrown out. Or at least heavily revised.

It has served its purpose.  It woke up the establishment.  Sure you hear bitching about how all that is happening now is "preparing for the tests".  Before NCLB, they were doing nothing but babysitting and waiting for the next social promotion.

This time, since we are going to have the federal government diddling with our local schools, something positive came out of it.  Not much, but it was a start. 

What actual positives have resulted thus far due to that program?  I admit that I may have missed any.

I covered that in the first paragraph. 

You made a blanket statememt.

I am asking for more specific details concerning the good done.

a very plugged in parent in my neck of the woods considered NCLB a sort of "Trojan Horse" to put a harsh spotlight on how bad our schools had become under Dem rule the past 40 years.

I'd say it worked, but I dont know that Bush 'strategized' it that way. Bush was somewhat hoping that his signing of Teddy Kennedy's legislation was a reach across the aisle to the Dems. Well, as we all know.. that certainly didnt happen.

But it had the unintended consequence of showing how teachers just teach to the tests and that the kids arent learning as much as we thought they could.

Its been a great program for enlightening ALL politicians as to how bad the problem really is.. but I dont expect Bush or any other president to really make a difference in how it changes. That is up to parents to leave public education and homeschool or go the private route and let the system collapse in on itself.

Now all public school districts are bad so I am not going to paint them all with the same brush.   Catholics schools in my state cannot hold a candle to public education.  We aen't doing too shabby here.   Perfect?  Nah, but our children are getting a good education and that is what I care most about.

Parents uniting is a very powerful force to wreckon with in regard to School Committees.  Would it make a difference in NYC?  probably not.  However it would in most other Districts. 

I stated before that teachers' unions are destroying public education in this country, and that is a damn shame.

i hold the teacher's union most responsible for allowing the NEA to dictate what would happen in the classrooms; teachers could have pushed back on this stuff decades ago and did not.. parents had no idea it was coming their way til way too late. so we're agreed on that point.

the parents do shoulder a fair amount of the blame as well. i had a mom tell me yesterday (we're roughly the same age..40s) and she thought that her parents had dropped the ball by allowing sexuality into her school and now its just the norm for everyone. to go against it now is to be considered a fundie nutjob living in the dark ages.


and of course all school districts arent bad, but overall, the US has fallen behind some third world countries with a tiny fraction of money alloted to students that they have. if a kid in Slovenia can get a first rate classic education for hundreds of dollars a year (or less), surely we can do much more with the tens of thousands we spend on kids from one coast to the other? granted, i know the cost of living is much higher here, but those kids in other countries should be - according to our homegrown liberals - unable to reach a first rate classic education on so little. but they do.

[Lauri]

We ask schools to do too much: teach, parent, instill some sort of values, give nutrition, give shots, give medical treatment, give vaccinations, prepare students for the workplace, etc. All in 6 hours a day, 180 days a year.


Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do.

And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

Actually they do.  School nurses regularly give insulin shots, check sugar levels, and adminster whatever else is required by health plans which is dictated by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.

Note that school districts are reimbursed for the cost of these nurses duties by Medicaid.

i will take your word for it.. i have only one lifelong diabetic friend and when we lived next door to each other, her insulin issues were hers to control throughout her day... interesting how that appears not to be the case any more.

[formerlurker]

No Child Left Behind needs to be completely thrown out. Or at least heavily revised.

It has served its purpose.  It woke up the establishment.  Sure you hear bitching about how all that is happening now is "preparing for the tests".  Before NCLB, they were doing nothing but babysitting and waiting for the next social promotion.

This time, since we are going to have the federal government diddling with our local schools, something positive came out of it.  Not much, but it was a start. 

What actual positives have resulted thus far due to that program?  I admit that I may have missed any.

I covered that in the first paragraph. 

You made a blanket statememt.

I am asking for more specific details concerning the good done.

a very plugged in parent in my neck of the woods considered NCLB a sort of "Trojan Horse" to put a harsh spotlight on how bad our schools had become under Dem rule the past 40 years.

I'd say it worked, but I dont know that Bush 'strategized' it that way. Bush was somewhat hoping that his signing of Teddy Kennedy's legislation was a reach across the aisle to the Dems. Well, as we all know.. that certainly didnt happen.

But it had the unintended consequence of showing how teachers just teach to the tests and that the kids arent learning as much as we thought they could.

Its been a great program for enlightening ALL politicians as to how bad the problem really is.. but I dont expect Bush or any other president to really make a difference in how it changes. That is up to parents to leave public education and homeschool or go the private route and let the system collapse in on itself.

Now all public school districts are bad so I am not going to paint them all with the same brush.   Catholics schools in my state cannot hold a candle to public education.  We aen't doing too shabby here.   Perfect?  Nah, but our children are getting a good education and that is what I care most about.

Parents uniting is a very powerful force to wreckon with in regard to School Committees.  Would it make a difference in NYC?  probably not.  However it would in most other Districts. 

I stated before that teachers' unions are destroying public education in this country, and that is a damn shame.

i hold the teacher's union most responsible for allowing the NEA to dictate what would happen in the classrooms; teachers could have pushed back on this stuff decades ago and did not.. parents had no idea it was coming their way til way too late. so we're agreed on that point.

the parents do shoulder a fair amount of the blame as well. i had a mom tell me yesterday (we're roughly the same age..40s) and she thought that her parents had dropped the ball by allowing sexuality into her school and now its just the norm for everyone. to go against it now is to be considered a fundie nutjob living in the dark ages.


and of course all school districts arent bad, but overall, the US has fallen behind some third world countries with a tiny fraction of money alloted to students that we have. if a kid in Slovenia can get a first rate classic education for hundreds of dollars a year, surely we can do much more with the tens of thousands we spend on kids from one coast to the other? granted, i know the cost of living is much higher here, but those kids in other countries should be - according to our homegrown liberals - unable to reach a first rate classic education on so little. but they do.

The cost per pupil spending is consumed by the cost of the teacher's contract.   Unions protect teachers from being accountable for their incompetence (for those who are incompetent).

I agree with you there.

[formerlurker]

We ask schools to do too much: teach, parent, instill some sort of values, give nutrition, give shots, give medical treatment, give vaccinations, prepare students for the workplace, etc. All in 6 hours a day, 180 days a year.


Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do.

And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

Actually they do.  School nurses regularly give insulin shots, check sugar levels, and adminster whatever else is required by health plans which is dictated by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.

Note that school districts are reimbursed for the cost of these nurses duties by Medicaid.

i will take your word for it.. i have only one lifelong diabetic friend and when we lived next door to each other, her insulin issues were hers to control throughout her day... interesting how that appears not to be the case any more.

No it is for older students.  Elementary students however need assistance and school nurses provide that. 

I have no problem with it.

[Lauri]

We ask schools to do too much: teach, parent, instill some sort of values, give nutrition, give shots, give medical treatment, give vaccinations, prepare students for the workplace, etc. All in 6 hours a day, 180 days a year.


Splashdown, with all respect... we didnt ask schools to do those things. Schools mandated that they WOULD do those things in order to get more federal dollars. We spend billions on breakfast and lunch and snacks for kids who otherwise could eat at home. Taxpayers do that and we have never been given the choice to vote on it; it is simply demanded that we do.

And what schools give vaccinations? Or medical treatment? If anything, schools are not allowed to give even aspirin to kids. They can take temps, give a bandaid or call a parent to come pick a child up. There is far too much liability to allow schools to administer treatments of any kind.

as for instilling values? I sure hope not! Most parents I know do NOT want teachers doing this .. but the teachers and administrators have decided that it IS their job to instill their values, whether they are in line with the families or not.

Actually they do.  School nurses regularly give insulin shots, check sugar levels, and adminster whatever else is required by health plans which is dictated by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act.

Note that school districts are reimbursed for the cost of these nurses duties by Medicaid.

i will take your word for it.. i have only one lifelong diabetic friend and when we lived next door to each other, her insulin issues were hers to control throughout her day... interesting how that appears not to be the case any more.

No it is for older students.  Elementary students however need assistance and school nurses provide that. 

I have no problem with it.

i dont have a problem with it, but i do have misgivings of school nurses being responsible for any kid that has a life threatening issue should they not be taken care of in a timely manner.. such is the case with diabetes.

i will admit that far too many parents use the schools for more than they should, but the teachers should push back and not allow it. our second grade teacher at the private school wont even pick up a pencil off the floor for our kids. she tells them probably 100 times a day, "I'm not your mother"  But she says it in a kind way..

[delilahmused]

This is a real soapbox issue for me and some of my views are radical, but I'll break it up into more than one post and deal with the more radical stuff later. Before we homeschooled both my sons went to public  school (my older son is my stepson but I've raised him since he was 2 years old)...luckily my youngest wasn't there very long. I was very committed to their education...when they went to school, I went to school. I did everything from Art Literacy Coordinator, fund raiser, classroom volunteer, room mother, etc. They had good teachers, horrid teachers, and average teachers. But the system itself is broken and even good teachers eventually burn out, in part, I believe, because there's no incentive to try harder.

Whether you're dedicated or just showing up, you make the same amount of money and I think they get as worn down by the "sameness" of the curriculum as they do with the fact that regardless of what they put into teaching they aren't going to be recognized any more than the teacher who is mediocre. In my experience, it's the NEA that's socialist, not necessarily individual teachers. There's a lack of trust in teachers (or maybe just an overbearing need to make sure students are indoctrinated properly...if you don't thing that happens even in the best schools you aren't paying attention). This has led to a cookie-cutter educatiion where teachers lack the freedom to teach what they want HOW they want. However, teachers seem to have very little interest in fighting back against the dictates of the NEA, which is sad because it's the kids (and the country) that suffer most.

As an example, in my state homeschoolers have to provide an "equivalent" education to public school. But how I do that is up to me. No one is handing me a textbook telling me WHAT to teach (or what POV I'm teaching from). The only "textbook" we had was for math. I realize there's a flexibility with homeschooling that isn't possible when you have 30 students, but when Jake wanted to learn about WWII, he wrote back and forth with his grandfather who was part of the 4th ID, landed at Normandy and marched to Berlin. He wrote to his grandmother who served stateside, but whose story was no less compelling because she was one of the first lady Marines (when she was growing up there was no such thing). For Vietnam, he communicated with his great uncle who was Air Force Special Ops.

There's no reason a public school teacher couldn't contact a local veteran's organization to have them visit or become pen pals. Imagine the different perspective students would have being able to learn from people who proudly served their country instead of the usualy leftist drivel. Not to mention the way history comes to life when you hear about it from someone who lived it. Don't get me wrong...we read the biased crap too, I thought he needed to know the kinds of things his peers were learning so we read a book called Lies My Teacher Told Me, which I'm convinced was ghost written by Ward Churchill. Education is about critical thinking, values, and even patriotism.

When I pulled Jake out he hadn't learned a stitch of American history. He'd made Indian pueblos out of jello boxes and sugar cubes, celebrated several Earth Days, learned about Kwanzaa, and could tell you all about Sacagawea. He certainly was beginning to develop a sense that white (mostly male) Americans had screwed up the entire planet and probably most of the known universe as well...were he in school today he'd most likely come out feeling responsible for the global warming on Mars. It just isn't possible for children to understand who they are if they don't understand their roots, the beauty and the greatness of this nation. There's nothing wrong with teaching them we still have much to do, but that should NEVER come before they have a sense of pride in who they already are.

Cindie

[delilahmused]

Probably the most controversial point of view I have about public school is that I do not believe attendance should be mandatory. What purpose does it serve to warehouse kids who don't want to be there? You know the saying...you can lead a horse to water...it's true about learning as well. It's disruptive to the students who WANT to be there and removes the responsibility from the parents and puts it on the school, teachers, and classmates. Think about how much time just one disruptive student takes away from everyone else. It's pretty hard to concentrate on the lesson when little Billy is whacking you over the head with his ruler. Jake is a very calm, measured person...it's why he makes and excellent Marine...(he came out of the womb that way, which worked out rather nicely for me since I tend to be more on the neurotic side of humanity) and was always the one who had to sit next to the little heathens. I actually had a teacher tell me...and she was one of the better ones, I even requested her for both my sons...that she put Jake next to them on purpose hoping "his calming influence would rub off" on them.

Children are naturally curious...think about everything they learn before they even get to school...mediocrity and monotony drive that thirst to know away. Eventually they'll get bored with doing "nothing" and school won't seem like such a bad thing. Those that don't were probably destined for homelessness or Cheeto's eating basement-dwelling anyway. Society can't save everyone. Sometimes children have a learning style that public school can't accommodate and (this will probably piss some people off) it's the parent's responsibility to see their needs are met, not a school that has to attempt to meet the needs of hundreds of kids. This might simply mean finding a charter school, it might mean putting them in a private school, or (and this is a wonderful option for those who can't afford private school tuition) homeschooling.

It might mean you have to lower your standard of living (someone has to teach the rug rats), give up your career, or work from home. Nine times out of ten, this falls to moms, but nurturing is really what God (or Gaia or wood elves or whatever you believe) made us to do. You know your children better than anyone, you love them more than anyone, it's your responsibility to give them the very best you can. Fathers have to be willing to bear the burden of being the bread winner. That's a profound responsibility that I don't honestly think I'd want, but I'm sexist that way. Sometimes that second paycheck that allows you to buy Nikes and Guitar Hero isn't as important as looking for bugs in the grass with the magnifying glass you bought at the dollar store.

Society is a monolith that is slow to change. Public school is "easy". Drop your kids off, make sure they do their homework, attend a conference here and there, maybe volunteer, join the PTA, do Scouts, sports or 4H and continue on your merry way. And it's not like you're not dedicated parents because most of us are...we would sooner saw off our right arm with a butter knife than see our children suffer. But I think we all get complacent. It's that "everybody's doing it" seduction. And it's ****ing hard to come up with a solution. But I think the state of today's public education should scare the piss out of you, whether you have kids or not because these children will be the people we count on to carry on the ideal that is America.

The other reason I'm against mandatory attendance comes from having raised boys and the problem is twofold...boys and girls learn differently when they're young, and public school is very biased against boys...granted there was a time when girls probably got the short shrift, but society tends to swing the pendulum too far in the other direction when trying to right a wrong. School pretty much demands that children sit still...the quiet ones are rewarded, the noisy ones (usually boys) are punished. The problem is that at a time when children are expected to "pay attention" boys and girls are developing very different skills. These are generalizations, I know, but it's true for the majority. Boys and girls ARE different, something schools "generally" forget.  Right as school starts boys are working on large motor skills...running, jumping, riding bikes, assertiveness skills they'll need as adults. Girls, OTOH, can spend hours quietly playing with Barbies, dolls, paper dolls, coloring...the kinds of activities that require intense concentration. Nine year old boys are loud, raucous, and silly, but they're the most wonderful, freest creatures on the face of the earth. To take that away from them is heartbreaking. They're simply not ready to "sit still" for long periods of time. It's wrong to have the same expectations of them that we have of girls (just as it would to have the same expectations of girls that we have of boys). In a perfect world boys wouldn't consider going to school until they were at least 10 years old...the noisy, silly stuff is much too important to be stifled.

Unfortunately, I don't know that most Americans are aware of the reasons for our broken education system, let alone how to fix it. Humans tend to wait until things are (almost) beyond repair before they change...seriously how much money to we have to throw at something before we understand it isn't going to work. When you consider the literacy rate BEFORE mandatory public education was 95%, when families had nothing more than a Bible and a sense of purpose, it shows just how warped things have gotten. I know many parents are doing yeoman's work trying to make the public education system work, they're better people than me, that's for sure. Until the stranglehold of the NEA and the federal government is removed from the education system I doubt true change is possible. Okay, off my soapbox.

Cindie

[DixieBelle]

Loved your posts Cindie. You're not radical at all. In fact, you're very on the money from my point of view. As a mother of a 10 year old boy, I wholeheartedly agree. I've been Room Mom, gone on field trips, etc...it seems like the teacher is nothing more than a cattle herder. It takes every ounce of restraint in my body NOT to whack some of these little kids in the back of the head. A lot of them need a trip to the woodshed once or twice. And then there are those who seem null and void. The lights are on but nobody is home. And then you have the bright, energetic ones who would thrive off of the special attention and tactile learning but no, it's done at one pace and geared to fit all minds. And then you see the teachers who are beat down and the ones who quit caring a long time ago and are just null and void themselves. It's sad.

The more I think about it, the more I toy with the idea of educational alternatives.