Author Topic: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.  (Read 1080 times)

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Offline Mr Mannn

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SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« on: May 14, 2011, 06:40:03 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=34791&mesg_id=34791
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Sadena Meti  (332 posts)        Sat Apr-30-11 06:25 AM

Do any Activists believe in Direct Action or do you just sign petitions and collect signatures?
    
Just curious what the population of this board is like.

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HereSince1628  (1000+ posts)           

1. I think illegal acts and anarchy aren't topics much
discussed here.


Also if a person is into taking action outside societal norms, and I'm not, then a public conversation on a public board with a newbie who could be a government sock-puppet is potentially pretty dangerous for the person and for the board.
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Vinnie From Indy  (1000+ posts)        
2. What does "direct action" mean?
    
Welcome to DU!
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Sadena Meti  (332 posts)        

3. Direct Action can mean many things.
    Technically a protest or a boycott is a form of a Direct Action, just a very week one. Stopping the boycotted product from ever getting to market, that's a much stronger Direct Action.

It's much more common in Europe than in America.
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Vinnie From Indy  (1000+ posts)        

5. And how would one "stop" a product from getting to market?
    Cheers!
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Sadena Meti  (332 posts)        Sat Apr-30-11 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #5

7. Could be as mild as a labor action spoiling the goods or as strong as a transport disruption.
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Sadena Meti  (332 posts)        

10. Civil Disobedience often is lawbreaking, or you wouldn't be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.
    
Man I wish this forum had "Reply with Quotes" I miss vb

"Read the board rules. (For me, "lawbreaking does not include civil disobedience, where the "disobeyer" is out in the open and ready to be jailed, ala Emerson, Ghandi and MLK, Jr.)"


How about X?


"If you have something else in mind, perhaps it would help if you were less vague and get more specific. For instane, what exactly do you mean by terms like "transportation disruption?" And please don't give a response like 'It could be...."

You seem to be assidously dancing around what you really mean, and that's both tedious and suspicion inducing, whether you have 10 posts or 100,000."

I'm getting a feel for my audience. Judging the mood of the room. OK, here's a what if. Doesn't really work were I am because I'm land locked. A shipment of sweatshop shoes comes in from overseas. The cargo containers are loaded on to trailer beds. The activist attaches time delayed spike strips to the tires (you'd be amazed how easy these are to make). After a few miles, all the trailer bed tires go flat.

Criminal damage to property and probably some trespassing thrown in on top. If the trucker loses control at 65mph you might get Reckless Endangerment, but a trailer blowout just turns the bed into a sled.


Chaining gates is another example of Direct Action. Trespassing.
Superglue in locks. Criminal Mischief.
Both good ways to shut down a business instead of just boycotting it.

You see I'm used to www.RevLeft.com where these ideas are thrown about in the open. Hell, you usually would commit Sedition every hundredth post.

I want to get a feel for the populace here.

BTW, the rules, short as they are, even in expanded form, do not prohibit the discussion of illegal or criminal activity, just Sedition.

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No Elephants  (1000+ posts)        Sat Apr-30-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #10

13. "Civil Disobedience often is lawbreaking, or you wouldn't be arrested..."
    
no kidding.


On your other points:

I am not sure if someone who seriously suggests everyone should throw bricks through store windows of everyone who sells, say, lettuce, would get banned from DU after the first such post. I think the post would be deleted if alerted on, though. So, I am not sure if your questions will help you gauge the population of the board or only to gauge the policies of the board. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sedition

No telling what responses you'd get from some folk here if you were on a board whose policies were different because I think some here might indeed dbe amenable to flattening tires, while others would be horrified. Remember, though, this is "Democratic Underground" not "Radical Underground."



As for me personally, I have no problem with strikes, pickets boycotts, marches or other activity, even if an incidental result of that would be to shut down someone's business--as sit ins in the Fifties might have shut down an eatery--or damage private property or even hurt someone, as when police get physical unnecessarily and scuffles ensue. My Comment: Support for physically harming the police? Yep, we are on DU.

However, it would take a lot for me to set out with the immediate goal of getting someone hurt physically or having someone's property damaged for a "greater good" that may (or may not) ultimately result one fine day.

So many think what they want--like lower taxes or free speech for corporations or an end to the war or a nuclear ban or single payer, will ultimately lead to "the greater good." I agree with only some of those things. Therefore, I am very reluctant to endorse an "end justifies the means" philosophy, much less live one.

I rarely rule out anything entirely and forever--"never say never" and all that. However, I have not done anythig like that yet and getting me to do anything like that would take a great deal--not sure what. But, has my activism been confined to signatures? No.

(Edited to delete "with D.C." from the end of the subject line.)

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Citizen Worker  (922 posts)        

21. Direct action is too long overdue.
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Downtown Hound (1000+ posts)        

23. I've participated in a Black Bloc led breakaway march
    in San Francisco during the run up to the Iraq War. There was no property destruction but it did turn into quite a boisterous time with the police chsing a crowd of 500 of us up and down Market Street. Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV1mHXqmi-o

I was arrested blockading the financial district of San Francisco during the Day X (the weekend the Iraq war broke out) protests. No video available.

I was arrested again blockading an intersection outside of San Francisco's state supreme court when they upheld Prop 8 two years ago. Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1SzihxCRY

I personally have taken a vow of non-violence (which includes not destroying property), but I do not condemn those that engage in property destruction or vandalism of corporate property (the black bloc, ELF, ALF). I do draw the line at pyhsically harming human beings though. I have and will engage in civil disobedience again.

I could care less what government stooges or law enforcement personnel read this, I'm quite open about my belifs and am willing to spend time in jail for them.

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 04:42:16 AM »
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Downtown Hound (1000+ posts)

23. I've participated in a Black Bloc led breakaway march

That's only because you wanted to cruise the bathhouses in the Castro district, and the march was going away from that area.  Continuing with the quote . . .

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Blah, blah, blah . . .

I could care less what government stooges or law enforcement personnel read this, I'm quite open about my belifs and am willing to spend time in jail for them.

That's because the only people who "love" you are the Bubbas in prison. :fuelfire:


"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

Offline Skul

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 08:43:25 AM »
That's because the only people who "love" you are the Bubbas in prison. :fuelfire:

Do you suppose that lad will find out where the term "hardened criminal" originated?  :-)
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 09:56:02 AM »
We should take his advice and take some "direct action"... baseball bat to his head.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 10:19:04 AM »
Do you suppose that lad will find out where the term "hardened criminal" originated?  :-)

Or "hard time."  H5.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

"All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk!" -Ayn Rand
 
"Those that trust God with their safety must yet use proper means for their safety, otherwise they tempt Him, and do not trust Him.  God will provide, but so must we also." - Matthew Henry, Commentary on 2 Chronicles 32, from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

"These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."--Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

Chase her.
Chase her even when she's yours.
That's the only way you'll be assured to never lose her.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 10:22:01 AM »
Or "hard time."  H5.

Think saltpeter........ then imagine trying to stuff a wet noodle up a wildcats ass.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline movie buff

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Re: SW Anarchist Looking for Love...and Public Endangerment.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 10:09:24 AM »
Anarchist psychos like Sadena just use the term "Direct Action" as a euphemism for "Vandalism, violence, looting, and rioting," because they know that if they expressly state their purposes (i.e. on a website, or in fliers they distribute), there's an excellent chance they could get arrested for incitement, and Anarchists fear nothing more than having to face the consequences of their actions. That's why they're always wearing those stupid bandanas over their faces, to make it harder for the cops to identify them when they throw a brick of a Molotov through a random store window.

Downtown Hound is an idiot. Those groups he claims he won't condemn such as ALF and the black bloc freaks have no problem using violence and threats of violence against people to achieve their goals. Animal rights psychos such as the ALF send death threats to the families of people who are involved in animal testing, or even just do business dealings with companies involved in it (as in, say you're a medium- level executive at some science company that has some level of business dealings with a separate research- lab company that has been known to engage in animal testing: Chances are, if the ALF psychos find out about it, you, your spouse, and your children will all be targeted for harassment, death threats, and possibly even a mail bomb from them). The black bloc Anarchist psychos who descended on St. Paul for the 2008 Republican National Convention had no problem terrorizing and at times physically attacking women, children, the elderly, conservative counterdemonstrators, and anyone else who they saw as disagreeing with them (And that's not even counting their attacking police officers). A couple of them dropped sandbags and bags of concrete off overpasses onto passing buses filled with delegates, which could have easily killed someone. They probably would have hurt even more innocent people and even killed some of them if it weren't for the fact that the St. Paul police did a freaking awesome job doing pre- emptive raids against the Anarchists' safehouses in the days before the convention, arrested many of their leaders on valid charges, and confiscated a ton of their stockpiled weapons. Brandon Darby, a liberal activist who became a police informant when he realized how truly dangerous the black bloc Anarchists were, helped foil a plan by them to attack police officers with firebombs during the convention, and has since received numerous death threats from the Anarchists' buddies for his role in the sting operation.
These are the people that this fool Downtown Hound is defending, and refusing to condemn.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 10:13:10 AM by movie buff »