The USPS: Government efficiency at its finest.

[franksolich]

And it seems to me it was well into the 60s when we were still buying "Air Mail" stamps, and those special envelopes designated for air mail.

I used to collect stamps, like Fat Che collects ISP numbers, pasting them into albums.

If I recall correctly, the air-mail delivery rate (usually two or three cents more than the first-class rate), was discontinued in 1971.

[Rebel]

Are you saying that it takes more than 2 dollars (about the sum of an average batch of mail) to get my mail to my box, when he's in the area collecting that from everyone? 100 homes would be 200 bucks. He'd spend, what, 10 dollars on gas in that one little area?  Not to mention they deliver to a lot more than 100 homes. Umm, okay, whatever.  

Reading comprehension. I'm referring to a neighborhood. It doesn't take a big area to hold 100 homes. 10 dollars is about right. If you're referring to rural areas, again, most people do not LIVE in rural areas and the costs would average out.
 

True.  They need to raise prices to reflect what it actually costs, including their legacy personnel costs.

Ok DAT, why don't you tell us all your plan to fix the issue, instead of acting like there is no problem. Raising prices isn't a fix for everything. It sounds as if you think there is no bloat in the USPS and that there's no way POSSIBLE that it could be done cheaper. Bullshit.

[franksolich]

In the United States a railway post office, commonly abbreviated as RPO, was a railroad car that was normally operated in passenger service as a means to sort mail en route, in order to speed delivery. The RPO was staffed by highly trained Railway Mail Service postal clerks, and was off-limits to the passengers on the train......From the middle of the 19th century, many American railroads earned substantial revenues through contracts with the U.S. Post Office Department (USPOD) to carry mail aboard high-speed passenger trains; and the Railway Mail Service enforced various standardized designs on RPOs. In fact, a number of companies maintained passenger routes where the financial losses from moving people were more than offset by transporting the mail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_post_office

By the 1880s, railway post office routes were operating on the vast majority of passenger trains in the United States. A complex network of interconnected routes allowed mail to be transported and delivered in a remarkably short time. Railway mail clerks were subjected to stringent training and ongoing testing of details regarding their handling of the mail. On a given RPO route, each clerk was expected to know not only the post offices and rail junctions along the route, but also specific local delivery details within each of the larger cities served by the route. Periodic testing demanded both accuracy and speed in sorting mail, and a clerk scoring only 96% accuracy would likely receive a warning from the Railway Mail Service division superintendent.

In the United States, RPO cars (also known as mail cars or postal cars) were equipped and staffed to handle most back-end postal processing functions. First class mail, magazines and newspapers were all sorted, cancelled when necessary, and dispatched to post offices in towns along the route. Registered mail was also handled, and the foreman in charge was required to carry a regulation pistol while on duty to discourage theft of the mail.

At its height, RPO cars were used on over 9,000 train routes covering more than 200,000 route miles in North America. While the majority of this service consisted of one or more cars at the head end of passenger trains, many railways operated solid mail trains between major cities; these solid mail trains would often carry 300 tons of mail daily.

An interesting feature of most RPO cars was a hook that could be used to snatch a leather or canvas pouch of outgoing mail hanging on a track-side mail crane at smaller towns where the train did not stop.....With the train often operating at 70 mph or more, a postal clerk would have a pouch of mail ready to be dispatched as the train passed the station. In a coordinated movement, the catcher arm was swung out to catch the hanging mail pouch while the clerk stood in the open doorway. As the inbound pouch slammed into the catcher arm, the clerk kicked the outbound mail pouch out of the car, making certain to kick it far enough that it was not sucked back under the train. An employee of the local post office would retrieve the pouch and deliver it to the post office.

At its height, RPO cars were used on over 9,000 train routes covering more than 200,000 route miles in North America. While the majority of this service consisted of one or more cars at the head end of passenger trains, many railways operated solid mail trains between major cities; these solid mail trains would often carry 300 tons of mail daily.

When the post office made a controversial policy change to process mail in large regional "sectional centers," the remaining railway post office routes, along with all highway post office routes, were phased out of service. In September of 1967 the POD cancelled all "rail by mail" contracts, electing to move all First Class mail via air and other classes by road (truck) transport.

After 113 years of railway post office operation, the last surviving railway post office running on rails between New York and Washington, D.C. was discontinued on June 30, 1977.

[franksolich]

Air Mail as a distinct service was effectively ended within the United States on October 10, 1975, however, when all domestic intercity First Class mails began to be transported by air whenever practical and/or expeditious at the normal First Class rate. Domestic Air Mail as a separate class of service (and its rate structure) was formally eliminated by the successor to the Post Office Department, the United States Postal Service (USPS) on May 1, 1977.

Oops, so I was wrong about 1971 being when air-mail stamps were discontinued.

But it seems to me that circa 1971, all mail was being carried via air anyway.

In June 2006 the USPS formally trademarked Air Mail (two words with capital first letters) along with Pony Express.

One wonders why they did that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airmails_of_the_United_States

[JohnnyReb]

There was a time--although no one here's old enough to remember it--when the post office sorted and delivered long-distance mail via railway train; they actually had guys on the train, sorting mail and putting it into bags or cubbyholes (as needed), picking up and dropping off large bags of mail as the train passed by each town.  

Back in the 50's, the high speed passenger train from New York to Miami used to pass thru the little town of Bethune SC where my mothers parents lived. I remember watching the mail car. Way up the track the mailman on the train would slide open the window on the mail car and look to see if the mailbag was hanging on the post. If it was, he would duck back in the window and then lean back out the window with a hook. The train would be doing 70 to 80 miles an hour when he would snatch that bag off the post. Soon as that bag went in the window the engineer would get on the engines and pickup speed.

I always wanted to put a cannonball in that mailbag. I was a bad little boy.

[franksolich]

Back in the 50's, the high speed passenger train from New York to Miami used to pass thru the little town of Bethune SC where my mothers parents lived. I remember watching the mail car. Way up the track the mailman on the train would slide open the window on the mail car and look to see if the mailbag was hanging on the post. If it was, he would duck back in the window and then lean back out the window with a hook. The train would be doing 70 to 80 miles an hour when he would snatch that bag off the post. Soon as that bag went in the window the engineer would get on the engines and pickup speed.

I always wanted to put a cannonball in that mailbag. I was a bad little boy.

What was the name of that train, John, sir?

It's so rare any more that I run into someone who remembers passenger trains; they were fading out quite quickly when I was a little lad.

[Splashdown]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hox-ni8geIw[/youtube]

[DumbAss Tanker]

Reading comprehension.

Or "Writing ability." 

It's pretty clear you don't actually understand much of anything about the system in the first place, or its cost structure and legal constraints that drive that cost, but jsut want to bitch about it and fundamentally don't want to pay more than you do already in postage.  It's not really worth wasting any more of my time discussing it, given that starting point.

[Rebel]

Or "Writing ability." 

It's pretty clear you don't actually understand much of anything about the system in the first place, or its cost structure and legal constraints that drive that cost, but jsut want to bitch about it and fundamentally don't want to pay more than you do already in postage.  It's not really worth wasting any more of my time discussing it, given that starting point.

I understand there there is way too much damn bloat in the USPS.

http://membership.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_NewsRelease_07082003c

http://membership.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10116

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110511006716/en/CAGW-Urges-Five-Day-Service-Postal-Losses

http://membership.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12384

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/USPS+Races+Downhill+and+Loses+Money%3b+Postal+Officials+Continue+to...-a0104851390

http://fleetowner.com/news/fleet_usps_attacked_losses/


....but you go ahead and bury your head in the sand and continue to say the taxpayers should pick up the losses due to piss-poor management and operational bloat. 

[JohnnyReb]

What was the name of that train, John, sir?

It's so rare any more that I run into someone who remembers passenger trains; they were fading out quite quickly when I was a little lad.

There were 2 high speed passenger trains at that time on that segment of the Seaboard Line. One was called The Silver Comet that went to Birmingham Alabama and the Silver Meteor that went to Miami. I think the Silver Meteor was the one referred to as "The Orange Blossom Special". Back then The Silver Meteor didn't make many stops on its trip to Miami.... New York, N.J., Penn., Washington, one stop in Va., two in N.C, one in S.C., one in Ga. and two in Fla..

My uncle Ray was a conductor for Pullman Coaches back then.

[GOBUCKS]

What was the name of that train, John, sir?

It's so rare any more that I run into someone who remembers passenger trains; they were fading out quite quickly when I was a little lad.

As a kid, I went on baseball excursions to Crosley Field aboard the Fast Flying Virginian. $10 for a box seat, box lunch, and round trip rail, but when you get $1.25 for mowing a lawn, ten bucks represents a lot of work.

[JohnnyReb]

There were 2 high speed passenger trains at that time on that segment of the Seaboard Line. One was called The Silver Comet that went to Birmingham Alabama and the Silver Meteor that went to Miami. I think the Silver Meteor was the one referred to as "The Orange Blossom Special". Back then The Silver Meteor didn't make many stops on its trip to Miami.... New York, N.J., Penn., Washington, one stop in Va., two in N.C, one in S.C., one in Ga. and two in Fla..

My uncle Ray was a conductor for Pullman Coaches back then.

I did a google search. I wasn't to far off for 55-60 year old memories.

[franksolich]

I did a google search. I wasn't to far off for 55-60 year old memories.

So you were on the Seaboard Air Line, which ran in competition with the Atlantic Coast Line.

By the time I was around, they'd merged into the Seaboard Coast Line, and their passenger trains were about the only ones still making money.

[franksolich]

As a kid, I went on baseball excursions to Crosley Field aboard the Fast Flying Virginian. $10 for a box seat, box lunch, and round trip rail, but when you get $1.25 for mowing a lawn, ten bucks represents a lot of work.

Damn, I had to look it up.

So you were on the Chesapeake & Ohio.

I'd heard of the Fast Flying Virginian, but couldn't place the road.

The Fast Flying Virginian (FFV) was a named passenger train of the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway.

The FFV was inaugurated on May 11, 1889, and ran until May 12, 1968. The train was operated on a daily daytime schedule between Union Station in Washington, DC and Union Terminal in Cincinnati, Ohio. The train operated westbound as #3 and eastbound as #4. The train operated between Washington, DC, and Charlottesville, VA over trackage rights from the Southern Railway. In Charlottesville, the FFV joined home rails, and continued west to Ohio. Major station stops included Alexandria, VA, Charlottesville, VA, Charleston, WV, Huntington, WV, Ashland, KY, and Cincinnati, OH.

Charlottesville, besides being a junction point for all traffic going to or coming from Washington, was also where an extension of the train from Newport News, VA was combined. This separate section was labeled in timetables as #43 westbound or #44 eastbound.

The Fast Flying Virginian operated alongside George Washington and Sportsman, being one of the C&O's most prestigious passenger trains. Unfortunately for the FFV, and the majority of American railroads, passenger trains become less popular over time, as the public embraced the automobile and the airplane. By the mid-1960s, the C&O, as with other railroads, depended on mail and express packages to keep passenger trains marginally profitable. That ended in 1967 when the U.S. Postal Service canceled all their mail contracts with the railroads. Instead the USPS preferred to ship mail by airplane or truck. This spelled the end of the FFV, which made the final run on May 12, 1968, after each train reached its terminal destinations.

[JohnnyReb]

Another memory Frank...Mail Buses...back in the 50's and 60's there used to be one that passed our house everynight about 10 pm. The lights in side it would be on and you could see the fellows sorting the mail. Not as glamorous as the train mailcar.

[GOBUCKS]

Damn, I had to look it up.

So you were on the Chesapeake & Ohio.

I'd heard of the Fast Flying Virginian, but couldn't place the road.

I think the Fast Flying Virginian was westbound, and the same train was called the George Washington eastbound. Or maybe vice versa..it's been a few years. I don't remember the Sportsman.

[franksolich]

I think the Fast Flying Virginian was westbound, and the same train was called the George Washington eastbound. Or maybe vice versa..it's been a few years. I don't remember the Sportsman.

You grew up in an area famous for its luxury passenger trains, but that of course was before your time.

There was, for example, the Powhatan Arrow; I forget which road that was on, probably the Norfolk & Western.

The Baltimore & Ohio ran the Capitol Limited, I think, in that same neighborhood.

Over in John's region, surely he was close to the famous Crescent Limited of the Southern, running between New York City and New Orleans.

Also in your area, there were used some of the largest steam locomotives ever devised, but again, that was before your time.

[thundley4]

Surprisingly, Amtrak still offers some long trips with sleeper cars.  http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FPage%2FAdvancedSearch&p=1237748590271&cid=1237748590271&show=all&search_included_routes=routes&q=city+of+new+orleans&search_results=25&sr=full

[GOBUCKS]

You grew up in an area famous for its luxury passenger trains, but that of course was before your time.

There was, for example, the Powhatan Arrow; I forget which road that was on, probably the Norfolk & Western.

The Baltimore & Ohio ran the Capitol Limited, I think, in that same neighborhood.

Over in John's region, surely he was close to the famous Crescent Limited of the Southern, running between New York City and New Orleans.

Also in your area, there were used some of the largest steam locomotives ever devised, but again, that was before your time.

My grandfather was a brakeman for years on the Powhatan Arrow, and it was on the N&W.
One of my earliest memories is of my dad taking me to the station to stand beside an N&W engine, a huge steam locomotive.
I remember how the big drive wheel would slip before gaining traction when the train started up. I was really little, no more than four years old or so, but that's the kind of thing that stays in your mind.

I don't know a thing about trains, but I think the biggest engines had to be the ones that hauled coal. Some of the trains would pull a couple of hundred loaded gondolas, and a big coal gondola is about a hundred tons. Today, the same train will have three or four diesel engines.

The railroad is an example of unions at work. In the cab of a steam locomotive, the engineer ran the train, and the fireman shovelled coal into the firebox. After the conversion to diesel, the fireman remained a part of the crew, and I think he still is. I have no idea what the fireman on a diesel locomotive does. Maybe he's the navigator.