Michael Moore Sues Weinsteins Over 'Fahrenheit 9/11' (Updated)

[thundley4]

He claims he was cheated out of at least $2.7 million in profits from his hit documentary.

Filmmaker Michael Moore has sued Harvey and Bob Weinstein, accusing the brothers of “Hollywood accounting tricks” and “financial deception” that cheated him out of at least $2.7 million in profits from the hit documentary Fahrenheit 9/11.
In a lawsuit filed today in Los Angeles Superior Court, Moore says the Weinsteins and an affiliated entity called the Fellowship Adventure Group agreed to split profits from the film 50-50 but then diverted monies to hide them from Moore. 
 
The suit for breach of contract, breach of fiduciary duty and constructive fraud claims that in 2008 Moore conducted an audit of the 2004 film, which grossed $222 million worldwide, and “discovered substantial irregularities in the accounting” that resulted in a “gross underpayment to [Moore],” the lawsuit says.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/blogs/thr-esq/michael-moore-sues-weinsteins-fahrenheit-97138

I guess it is about the money after all.

[formerlurker]

I see it as a perception problem.  Let's exchange Weinsteins with Obama.....

"An independent auditor came in and discovered that the Weinsteins Obama had re-routed at least $2.7 million dollars that belonged to Michael Moore from "Fahrenheit 9/11."

See no worries right?   

Unless of course Mr. Moore is in fact a greedy capitalist pig.......... couldn't be, right?

[JohnnyReb]

He's already eaten up his share of the profits and like the good liberal he is...he now wants their share.

[rubliw]

Meh - one's distaste for Moore aside, I'd be willing to bet he has a legitimate case....

The term "hollywood accounting" didnt appear out of nowhere.

I remember a suit from the Tolkien estate - the Lord of the Rings movies made over a billion in real profit and the Tolkien estate was owned a good solid portion of that, but they hid it all with accounting tricks and only paid them to the tune of $60,000.

[Rebel]

Meh - one's distaste for Moore aside, I'd be willing to bet he has a legitimate case....

The term "hollywood accounting" didnt appear out of nowhere.

I remember a suit from the Tolkien estate - the Lord of the Rings movies made over a billion in real profit and the Tolkien estate was owned a good solid portion of that, but they hid it all with accounting tricks and only paid them to the tune of $60,000.

He shouldn't care about profits. He hates Capitalism. .....or at least he says he does. Please tell me he's not overtly saying that shit just to sell movies. Please tell me he's not secretly a Capitalist. Why, that would make him like Al Gore, the energy hog.

[rubliw]

He shouldn't care about profits. He hates Capitalism. .....or at least he says he does. Please tell me he's not overtly saying that shit just to sell movies. Please tell me he's not secretly a Capitalist. Why, that would make him like Al Gore, the energy hog.

Yea, but he also seems to hate big corporations who screw people out of their money.

[Rebel]

Yea, but he also seems to hate big corporations who screw people out of their money.

How does a corporation screw people out of "their" money? You think there's some big stash of money in D.C. and the more a corporation gets, the less a person gets? Wow. Economics isn't your strong suit, is it?

[rubliw]

How does a corporation screw people out of "their" money? You think there's some big stash of money in D.C. and the more a corporation gets, the less a person gets? Wow. Economics isn't your strong suit, is it?

No, the more a corporation is able to fudge the numbers to reduce its profits on paper, the less they have to pay to all those people who are owed royalties or a share of the profits.  In this case, a corporation is allegedly using accounting tricks that hide genuine profits from a person to whom is owed a percentage of those profits.  It happens *ALL* the time, especially in Hollywood - where large numbers of people are compensated by profit sharing or royalties.

This isnt economics - its accounting.

[Rebel]

No, the more a corporation is able to fudge the numbers to reduce its profits on paper, the less they have to pay to all those people who are owed royalties or a share of the profits.  In this case, a corporation is allegedly using accounting tricks that hide genuine profits from a person to whom is owed a percentage of those profits.  It happens *ALL* the time.

This isnt economics - its accounting.

Link? You made the claim, the onus is on you to provide the truth.

Fudging numbers to reduce profits would make the company look less profitable and less appealing to new investors and/or stockholders. What you did was pull some ultra-left wing talking point out of your ass and, unlike DU, thought it wouldn't be challenged here. A company survives on investors. They can't grow without investors. You're saying they're actively making themselves look less profitable. That, IMO, is an example of 1+1=potato.

BTW, not all stock pays dividends.

[Ralph Wiggum]

...claims that in 2008 Moore conducted an audit of the 2004 film...

Well, there's your problem right there.  To my knowledge, Moore is not a CPA, now is he?  I'm sure any "audit" he would do likely would be worthless.

[rubliw]

Link? You made the claim, the onus is on you to provide the truth.

Fudging numbers to reduce profits would make the company look less profitable and less appealing to new investors and/or stockholders. What you did was pull some ultra-left wing talking point out of your ass and, unlike DU, thought it wouldn't be challenged here. A company survives on investors. They can't grow without investors. You're saying they're actively making themselves look less profitable. That, IMO, is an example of 1+1=potato.

BTW, not all stock pays dividends.

The wiki page on hollywood accounting has a good overview - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

Hollywood accounting can take several forms. In one form, a subsidiary is formed to perform a given activity and the parent entity will extract money out of the subsidiary not in terms of profits but in the form of charges for certain "services". The specific schemes can range from the simple and obvious to the extremely complex.

Three main factors in Hollywood accounting reduce the reported profit of a movie, and all have to do with the calculation of overhead:

Production overhead – Studios, on average, calculate production overhead by using a figure around 15% of total production costs.

Distribution overhead – Film distributors typically keep 30% of what they receive from movie theaters ("gross rentals").

Marketing overhead – To determine this number, studios usually choose about 10% of all advertising costs.

All of the above means of calculating overhead are highly controversial, even within the accounting profession. Namely, these percentages are assigned without much regard to how, in reality, these estimates relate to actual overhead costs. In short, this method does not, by any rational standard, attempt to adequately trace overhead costs.

Due to Hollywood accounting, it has been estimated that only about 5% of movies officially show a net profit, and the "losers" include such blockbuster films as Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and Batman, which all took in huge amounts in box office and video sales.

....

A WB receipt was leaked online, showing that the hugely successful movie Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix ended up with a $167 million loss on paper

Now whether this sort of thing happened to Moore, who knows at this point - but it wouldnt be surprising.

[Janice]

Poor Mr Moore already made about $20M on the film and now he needs more ...

Fat body, fat head, fat ego and ??? else??

Mr anti-capitalist aint getting his cut now?

Puleeease .... wheres the violins?

[Rebel]

The wiki page on hollywood accounting has a good overview - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

Now whether this sort of thing happened to Moore, who knows at this point - but it wouldnt be surprising.

Just for the record, your complaint is with Hollywood? Perhaps you should have made that more clear instead of the general "big corporations" label. I could give a rat's ass about any Hollywood sect. It's all left. You guys have a ball with that. I just like pointing out blatant hypocrisy.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The term "hollywood accounting" didnt appear out of nowhere.

Absolutely correct.  Accounting has as much to do with real economics as 'Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines' has to do with aviation history.

Anyone who signs onto a Hollywood contract for percentage of net in a normal partnership sense is just asking to take it in the shorts.  There are a million ways for the side that wrote it and controls the accounting to profit from it and still come out looking (In a technical accounting way) like the partners all lost money on the deal, so Mr. Outside gets totally screwed.  Nobody in their right mind who expects to see a dime back should ever sign a Hollywood-bred contract written by someone else's accountants and attorneys for a 'Percentage of net profit.'  This is why you hear of the key talent using their bargaining power to sign for 'Percentage of gross,' while others with some kind of leverage reserve a particular right entirely, like toy licensing.  The peons are mostly subcontractors, hourly, or working on a flat fee.

Not that I have any sympathy for that dildo Moore.  He should have known better.

[dandi]

The wiki page on hollywood accounting has a good overview - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

Now whether this sort of thing happened to Moore, who knows at this point - but it wouldnt be surprising.

That's nice.  What happens between greedy-assed leftists is nothing surprising; there is no honor among thieves.

Now, how about a real corporation that does that?

[Eupher]

Sigh.

wilbur strikes again.

Ranting and raving about evil capitalist pig big corporations when in fact, he's wailing and gnashing his teeth about evil capitalist pig Hollyweird.

A few notable exceptions notwithstanding, Hollyweird isn't worth the powder to blow it to hell.

[rubliw]

Sigh.

wilbur strikes again.

Ranting and raving about evil capitalist pig big corporations when in fact, he's wailing and gnashing his teeth about evil capitalist pig Hollyweird.

Except I havent been "ranting and raving" about "evil capitalist pig big corporations"....  nor have I done any teeth gnashing.    You must be a product of our public schools.

[DefiantSix]

In a lawsuit filed today in Los Angeles Superior Court, Moore says the Weinsteins and an affiliated entity called the Fellowship Adventure Group agreed to split profits from the film 50-50 but then diverted monies to hide them from Moore.

Please tell me that I'm not the only sick **** who caught this...

[Texacon]

What does Michael Moore have against Jews?  Why Michael?  Why don't you like Jews?

KC

[Eupher]

Except I havent been "ranting and raving" about "evil capitalist pig big corporations"....  nor have I done any teeth gnashing.    You must be a product of our public schools.

 

Wait a minute - you spell your screen name backwards and you accuse me of being a product of public schools?

  

Let's be real, wilbur. You said this:

Yea, but he also seems to hate big corporations who screw people out of their money.

Of course, you were speculating as to Michael Moron's thoughts about "big corporations who screw people out of their money", but you were really projecting yourself onto Mikey, in a Walter Mitty kinda way, weren't you?

 

Thanks for playing! Come on back when you can't stay so long! 

[rubliw]

Of course, you were speculating as to Michael Moron's thoughts about "big corporations who screw people out of their money", but you were really projecting yourself onto Mikey, in a Walter Mitty kinda way, weren't you?

In a word.... no.   

[Eupher]

In a word.... no.   

 

Sure, wilbur. Sure.

[Duke Nukum]

Yea, but he also seems to hate big corporations who screw people out of their money.

I read on the Internets that Moore believes there should be more democracy and less capitalism, therefore, my vote is for Moore to get screwed out of his evil capitalist profits.  /Democrat Party Mode