More DUmmy economics

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9597820

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 02:57 PM
Original message
New Progressive Poll: Shall We Forgive All Debts and Start Over?
      

Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 03:54 PM by kenm
I have created a new progressive poll that I would very much appreciate if you would all vote in.

http://define.com

There are 4 paragraphs, then a question.

Here is the poll text:

Let's give majority consensus-based Democracy a try for a change!


A GLOBAL REFERENDUM

Concerning Our Environment, the Banking Industry and Our Collective Liberty.

Make Your Opinion Count - CAST YOUR VOTE and See the Latest Results Live!




Enough is enough. Our global petroleum-based economy and international commercial banking systems are in desperate need of reform. Our central banks are secretive, non-transparent and corrupt. They have become organized criminal shell games and ponzi schemes managed and controlled by Wall Street insiders and shadowy international bankers who have completely taken over our increasingly secretive political systems. Their puppet politicians ignore proven science, sound reason and basic human compassion in order to perpetuate obscene corporate profits. Their combined public environmental protection and poverty relief efforts are completely ineffective to the point of being farcically absurd. It is now without question or doubt. They absolutely do not represent the best interests of the majority of the people - the common citizens of our planet.



The simple truth is that the average human brain is very poor at long-term thinking and even rudimentary mathematics. Ordinary, hard-working, honest and well-intentioned people are lured by immediate rewards into becoming voracious dumbed-down consumers who accept debt-plus-interest credit obligations that are nearly impossible to repay, by intentional design of the money lenders who prey on this fallacy of human nature. As a result, the overwhelming majority of citizens have managed to end up deeply indebted to the richest of the rich and the greediest of the greedy - the international corporate for-profit banking institutions. The exceptions are the billions of people who are trapped in never-ending poverty because they are unable to receive credit in the first place.



It's time that we put a stop to this large-scale, wholesale, systematic, institutionalized, government-sanctioned plundering of our liberty and freedom and environmental health. We need to level the playing field, wipe the slate clean, and start fresh with a new non-profit banking system, directly owned and democratically controlled entirely by the citizens - all of us - one person, one non-transferable voting share each. This new democratic bank, with the authority to create capital as society demands, could honor the insured deposits of the too-big-to-fail commercial banks, which would be allowed, at last, to fail. This true bank of the people, as a non-profit, will grant loans at zero interest, which is, after all, the only fair rate there is.



With this new fresh start, we could immediately replace our petroleum-based economy with a truly Earth-friendly green economy, making the economics of clean energy affordable to all at last. It would also enable us to provide the poor, unemployed and retired with a Basic Income Guarantee sufficient to provide a high quality of life in modernity and much-needed Universal Health Care. This would render our IRS, government-based welfare programs, unemployment insurance programs, Social Security and Medicare programs, and many humanitarian non-governmental organizations (NGOs) unnecessary.

Will you vote, if given the opportunity, to forgive all debts, public and commercial, with the legal provision that you be allowed to keep the car that you drive, the home that you live in, and all your personal possessions free and clear, without owing debts or mortgage payments to any commercial banks, so that you can live freely, without fear or threat of homelessness or eviction?

Another sooper genius.

ljm2002  (1000+ posts)          Sat Nov-20-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. If they still owed THEIR debts then it would be highly unfair to them...
   ...however, the deal seems to be debt forgiveness for everyone, so I fail to see the problem.

The concept of a Jubilee year is ancient and has been used throughout history to deal with the fact that inequality tends to build up over time, especially due to interest owed on debts.

I think it's a great idea and should be built into our system to kick in every so often.

Instead we have a system that ends up being punitive to the majority of people, while allowing others to live like monarchs.

cleanhippie  (1000+ posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. So it is only institutional debt that is forgiven?
   Mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc.?

What is the upside for these companies to forgive all that debt?

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. There is no upside for the money-lenders, except all execs get early retirement in their nice homes
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:28 PM by kenm
These companies would all fail. They wouldn't have a choice.

Corporations don't get a vote.

The CEOs and executives can all cast their individual votes, but their votes count the same as everybody elses.

They could all go home to their large plush homes and could just retire there debt free. Maybe take up golfing or fishing.

Basically you just create a snapshot of the status quo, except everybody is free and out of debt.

 

cleanhippie  (1000+ posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Considering that all companies are owned and operated by actual people
   I am not following how this idea would ever get off the ground. The same people who would want their debt forgiven would also be the ones that own and work at these companies. Not only would their investments be worthless, their jobs would cease to exists.
I just do not see how this idea would work in the real world. In theory it seems like a good idea, but in practice, it would devastate the entire world economy, plunging BILLIONS of people into poverty and joblessness.

I don't get it.
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Freeper troll.

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. People would still have their checking and savings
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:47 PM by kenm
People who still have all of their real assets, except they would own them for themselves, instead of the bank.

They checking and savings accounts could be transferred to the non-profit bank, so people still have all their personal savings.

The object of the game to to provide the maximum number of people with real, true freedom. Freedom to live.

Real freedom means you don't have work if you don't want to.

For people who want to make money to save, they can work in the jobs that are truly essential to society. And those would become high paying jobs, because they would be compensated based on the true value to society.

Garbage collectors would be wealthy.

The ultimate goal as always.

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. People would still want to work, but not have to, so they could choose rewarding jobs
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:06 PM by kenm
Many people would choose to continue working, except they'd work in ways that are enjoyable to them.

It's a basic human need to be of service and to be creative. So this in no way means that everybody would be unemployed all of a sudden.

Except for the bankers.

 

notesdev (1000+ posts)          Sat Nov-20-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Zero interest doesn't work
   One default and you're in the negative and have no way to replenish that money.

What's to stop people from defaulting, regardless of the interest rate? Nothing. Sometimes people just can't pay and nothing can be done about it, and the lender has to eat the loss.

The solution is DEBT FREE LIVING not trying to come up with a kinder, gentler debt slavery system.

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It does if you can create your own money
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:17 PM by kenm
Not if you can make your own money.

Remember, this is a global bank, owned and controlled democratically by all of the citizens equally.

Money that a debtor borrows and is unable to repay just ends up back in the accounts of the same bank anyway.

One option is to have a dual currency system.

One currency, gold-backed, persistent.

The other currency, temporary, electronic, short lifespan.

This would allow a basic income guarantee.

The poor, unemployed and retired to basically get an allowance that expires if not used.

The object of the game is to make sure that the majority of the people always have play money in their pocket, but without creating inflation.

I'm talking about a real democracy here. Completely replacing the government with a truly egalitarian citizen-owned economy. We can make the rules however is necessary to make sure that everybody is at least provided with enough operating credits to participate in society and have shelter, mobility and health care.
   

Well that certainly explains it all.

They really believe this stuff folks.

[Freeper]

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. People would still have their checking and savings
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 05:47 PM by kenm
People who still have all of their real assets, except they would own them for themselves, instead of the bank.

They checking and savings accounts could be transferred to the non-profit bank, so people still have all their personal savings.

The object of the game to to provide the maximum number of people with real, true freedom. Freedom to live.

Real freedom means you don't have work if you don't want to.

For people who want to make money to save, they can work in the jobs that are truly essential to society. And those would become high paying jobs, because they would be compensated based on the true value to society.

Garbage collectors would be wealthy.

You know for people who complain that us teabaggers can't spell, use correct grammar, etc they should proofread their own posts.

Real freedom means you don't have to work if you don't want to, sums up liberalism quite nicely.
It sounds all warm and fuzzy that if you would rather spend your life fishing then why not? Or if you want to lie in bed all day instead of dealing with traffic to a job that tires your mind and body all day only to have to deal with traffic once again to return home at night.
Sounds like a true paradise, right?
Only problem is who would do all the work needed for a society to function if you could opt out of work?
I guarantee most folks would prefer to spend their days with their families or doing the fun hobbies they have instead of sweating away at a job all day. Society would crash overnight if liberals had their way.
The wealthy garbage collectors would probably stay home instead of collecting all the pizza boxes and Cheetos bags outside the DUmmies house.
We all would have a ton of cash but nowhere to spend it and nothing to buy.

[Vagabond]

Within the week after implementing this evil system, this DUmmie would be using force to make people clen bed pans in it's universal healthcare hospitals.  Garbage wouldn't be picked up.  Water delivery services and waste water removal would quickly fail.
 

[jukin]

If this were a politician posting this it wold be called a gaffe.

[blitzkrieg_17]

Real freedom means you don't have work if you don't want to.

Stupid douche.

[crockspot]

I vote yes. I will devote my life to watching porn on the innernets and masturbating. Oh wait! 

[Chris_]

global petroleum-based economy and international commercial banking systems

Because magic fairy dust and an enormous welfare state are so much better.

[USA4ME]

Uhh, primitive.... if you're gonna do all this, why even have money as a medium of exchange at all?  Just do away with money and make everything purely trade based.  This type of "global currency" would be worthless anyway because who knows when the rules are going to change.

.

[JohnnyReb]

Real freedom means you don't have work if you don't want to.

DUmmies are doing that now on our nickel....I could go along with that if they also instituted, "Man shall earn his bread  by the sweat of his brow."....in other words, if you don't work, you don't eat....die DUmmie die.

[true_blood]

cleanhippie  (1000+ posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. So it is only institutional debt that is forgiven? Mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc.? What is the upside for these companies to forgive all that debt?

So? In other words, why don't you just say that loans will be non-existent and all will be free? The gubberment will be your babysitter and make all through life a breeze from cradle to grave.
The stupid is rampant in that thread.

[zeitgeist]

Because magic fairy dust and an enormous welfare state are so much better.

When dealing with Skinner the Red Nosed Communist and the rest over at the Island of Misfit Goys well yes, yes it is. 

[Karin]

I'd better take off and go to the ER, as my brains have leaked out reading that.  That thread is quite a find.  Every now and then, we see those types of things.  Gems, one and all, and I love how it displays the Dump stupidity for all to see. 

[Wineslob]

Again, you think the DUmbshites can't lower the bar anymore....

[BEG]

kenm (31 posts)        Sat Nov-20-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. People would still want to work, but not have to, so they could choose rewarding jobs
   Edited on Sat Nov-20-10 06:06 PM by kenm
Many people would choose to continue working, except they'd work in ways that are enjoyable to them.

It's a basic human need to be of service and to be creative. So this in no way means that everybody would be unemployed all of a sudden.

Except for the bankers.

Under your idiotic plan, try to get someone to come empty your septic tank or unclog your shit clogged pipes. DUmmies are so juvenile.

[delilahmused]

Okay, now how is this this global commune bank supposed to work? George Soros who own half the damn world is going to put his bazillions into the same bank with my savings which basically amounts to pocket change for him and we're going to have an equal say in things? And throw the Saudis and Ahmanutjob in there, too, who I'm sure won't mind sharing with the Jews as long they don't build any settlements with the safety deposit boxes. And what about my 401k, stocks, Roth IRA? And no interest too, huh? Yeah, that'll work. Dumb Ass! 

[Reality vs DU]

DUmmy kenm has got to be a mole.  Nobody is that stup...oh that''s right it's the DUmp, never mind.

[true_blood]

I'd better take off and go to the ER, as my brains have leaked out reading that.  That thread is quite a find.  Every now and then, we see those types of things.  Gems, one and all, and I love how it displays the Dump stupidity for all to see. 

You got that right Karin.

[BlueStateSaint]

This Brit would be in line with the OP.  What's her DU name?

Pregnant again, the mother with five children in care who vows to keep having babies until she gets a council house

By Andy Dolan
Last updated at 5:22 PM on 22nd November 2010

Comments (272) Add to My Stories
 
An unemployed benefits claimant whose five children were all taken into care has vowed to continue having babies until she is granted a council house.

Lavine Samma, 27, is now pregnant with her sixth child and fully expects the baby to be taken from her by social services at birth, just like the last three infants.
 
Since 2002, the feckless mother has given birth to three boys and two girls by three different men and doesn't even know who the father is of one.

She does not work and rakes in around £600 a month in benefits.
 
But Miss Samma claimed yesterday that it was her 'human right as a woman to have children' and vowed to continue falling pregnant until the local authority moved her from her 16th floor inner-city council flat to a 'proper council house'.

Leeches all.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331943/Lavine-Samma-Mother-vows-having-babies-gets-council-house.html#ixzz162fBhvuA

[true_blood]

This Brit would be in line with the OP.  What's her DU name? Leeches all.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331943/Lavine-Samma-Mother-vows-having-babies-gets-council-house.html#ixzz162fBhvuA

That is what you call garbage.

[ROCKURWORLD]

ljm2002  (1000+ posts)          Sat Nov-20-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. If they still owed THEIR debts then it would be highly unfair to them...
   ...however, the deal seems to be debt forgiveness for everyone, so I fail to see the problem.

The concept of a Jubilee year is ancient and has been used throughout history to deal with the fact that inequality tends to build up over time, especially due to interest owed on debts.

I think it's a great idea and should be built into our system to kick in every so often.

Instead we have a system that ends up being punitive to the majority of people, while allowing others to live like monarchs.

Hmmm if I remember the bible right, yes every 50 yrs debts are cleared but all mortgage property goes back to the original owner (bank). I could be mistaken.