Guy relegated to basement by spouse naturally opposes performance based pay

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Nov-17-10 11:44 PM
Original message
BREAKING: Baltimore Teacher's Union votes to commit mass suicide
   
At 6.35 EST, the local news reported that the teacher's union membership voted to accept the City's proposition that does away with all step raises and raises tied to education and replaces them with a performance based pay scheme that is tied to student performance (test scores).

I wish all teachers well. This vote simply astounds me. The Charter School Movement, Inc is now firmly ensconced in this city that still has no idea what harm is about to befall them.

This link will update. At the time I posted it, the link had a 1 hour old story and a flashing "Breaking" note that the vote passed: http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/region/baltimore_city/...

Note to Mods, while this is breaking news, I posted here in GD instead of LBN because I wanted to put my own disgusted editorial spin on it.

WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list    Wed Nov-17-10 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Talk about "will rue the day"!! Well, this proves to me that teacher ed. has gone down-hill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9578920

Serious question: Why are teachers supposed to be exempt from performance-based pay when it is good enough for the rest of the planet?

[diesel driver]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9578920

Serious question: Why are teachers supposed to be exempt from performance-based pay when it is good enough for the rest of the planet?

Because teachers are "special".   

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Because teachers are "special".   

Even if DUmbasses aren't rational they still rationalize. I'm curious as to what that is supposed to be.

[Celtic Rose]

Even if DUmbasses aren't rational they still rationalize. I'm curious as to what that is supposed to be.

I think it has to do with all of there justifications for why children do poorly on test (Bad testers, poor nutrition, lack of parental involvement, etc.) and that because there are variables beyond their control, they should not be judged based on test scores.

[thundley4]

I think it has to do with all of there justifications for why children do poorly on test (Bad testers, poor nutrition, lack of parental involvement, etc.) and that because there are variables beyond their control, they should not be judged based on test scores.

Yet many of the charter schools face those same problems and produce better students. 

[Carl]

I don`t think it is simply because they are teachers...it is because they are a publicly paid,highly unionized and reliably liberal voting apparatus.
It is DUmmy nirvana,control of the legislative process and beneficiary of it.
All their dreams come true.

[Celtic Rose]

Yet many of the charter schools face those same problems and produce better students. 

Well, fancy that.  You mean good teachers can overcome roadblocks?  What a thought!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I think it has to do with all of there justifications for why children do poorly on test (Bad testers, poor nutrition, lack of parental involvement, etc.) and that because there are variables beyond their control, they should not be judged based on test scores.

So in other words, teachers are powerless by-standers who should be paid a shit-ton of money for working 9 months out of a year holding down chairs?

No doubt many of those variables do exist and do weigh heavily on a child's performance but collecting excuses soon turns into reasons to stop trying.

If they're so ****ing powerless they should GTFO but the teacher who can overcome those adversities--and it is possible--deserves far more money than their peers.

[thundley4]

If they're so ****ing powerless they should GTFO but the teacher who can overcome those adversities--and it is possible--deserves far more money than their peers.

Something like merit pay? 

[true_blood]

MadHound  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Wed Nov-17-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Not that teacher ed has gone downhill, But rather that teacher desperation has gone up, way up. I recently graduated with a couple of education degrees, and the fact of the matter is that this administration helped screw me out of a job this year. Last year's stimulus didn't cover education over into this year, and the only money available from the the Feds was that travesty of Race to the Top. Teachers were laid off throughout the country as a result. True monetary assistance didn't come until it was far too late, in September this year, after all the hiring and firing decisions had been made.
What these teachers are doing is looking into a real bleak future and trying to hang onto their jobs by any means necessary. It was probably accept this now, or face massive layoffs in the spring. After all, those government faves, TFA grads, are ready and willing to fill those vacant spots for pennies on the dollar.

Hey DUmmie, still want your "hope" and "change"?! (How'd that work out for ya anyways?) Wasn't the stimulus bill supposed to stop unemployment @ 8% and help boost the economy? It did NEITHER and with all that money spent and we have to pay back, WITH INTEREST. Where did it go? Things don't look much better neither over a year later.

[jukin]

I don`t think it is simply because they are teachers...it is because they are a publicly paid,highly unionized and reliably liberal voting apparatus.
It is DUmmy nirvana,control of the legislative process and beneficiary of it.
All their dreams come true.

Well said. HI5!

[DumbAss Tanker]

I think it has to do with all of there justifications for why children do poorly on test (Bad testers, poor nutrition, lack of parental involvement, etc.) and that because there are variables beyond their control, they should not be judged based on test scores.

There is some validity to parts of that, because to some extent the teachers do have to play the cards they're dealt with the students they get, and I sure don't envy any teacher getting performance-based raises in a shithole like inner Baltimore or Camden NJ.  A rational approach would be to make performance a factor, but not the only factor, however a multivariate approach like that seems to be beyond the mental reach of most administrators.   

[Karin]

Before I joined CC and the DUmpster, I confess I was very, very naive.  I had no idea about the real liberals & lefties infesting our country.  The first shocker came with a thread professing sexual attraction toward the Gitmo prisoners, and a desire to make them dinner. 

The second shocker came with a profanity-laced diatribe from Proud2BLibKansan, who said "Take your merit pay and shove it up your ass!!"  I'd lived with merit pay all my working life, and did quite well with that system.  Who on earth could object to the idea behind it? 

I'm a little bit older and so much wiser these days. 

[true_blood]

A rational approach would be to make performance a factor, but not the only factor, however a multivariate approach like that seems to be beyond the mental reach of most administrators.   

I agree DAT.
DUmmies don't like competition. (Do as little as possible.) Just like how they hate the competition that sparks capitalism.

[Splashdown]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9578920

Serious question: Why are teachers supposed to be exempt from performance-based pay when it is good enough for the rest of the planet?

MSB: How can we tell whether a teacher is doing a good job day-to-day in the classroom?

Think back on the best teachers you ever had. How can you accurately quantify their work? It's at best a difficult proposition, I think.

[VivisMom]

As a former Baltimore City teacher, I'm torn.

On the one hand, I agree that they should do away with automatic raises every year-the City pays their teachers pretty well. Now granted some of that should be considered hazard pay, but they don't need step raises, etc, every year.

On the other hand, have you BEEN to Baltimore lately? Anyone watch The Wire? That show was so real it should scare the piss out of people. Teaching in Baltimore public schools is like teaching in a poorly run prison where the inmates run the show. It's sad. Even the best teachers have difficulty teaching in that environment.

There are circumstances that make me feel that the pay based on test scores is a bad idea, not the least of which is that standardized testing doesn't actually test cognition but insted tests ability to memorize. I'm all for merit based pay, but not for test scores-I would rather it be based on how many kids passed the classes, and with what grade. That is more of a true indicator of what students actually know than filling in bubbles on a scantron.