Author Topic: This is what's wrong with education today  (Read 1971 times)

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Offline notaDUmmie

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This is what's wrong with education today
« on: July 31, 2010, 08:57:50 PM »
In the discussion about abolishing summer vacation from schools...please note the bolded parts.


 
Quote
tinymontgomery  (1000+ posts)      Sat Jul-31-10 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Parents won't like it
 most treat teachers like baby sitters (this  coming from a HS teacher). When we have a snow day they get pissed because they have to figure out what to do with the kid. Make them have to do more work on how to have someone take care of the kids will piss off a lot of parents. They may be forced into it but won't like it. I was speaking to a teacher at a conference who had just come from some town up north like MI or something and the town said they would have to raise taxes or go to 4 day school schedule. Residents voted down tax raise, school system went to 4 days, parents through a fit.

 
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Offline blitzkrieg_17

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2010, 09:06:52 PM »
**** off and die, Nazi twits. Just **** off and die.
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Offline PatriotGame

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2010, 09:23:22 PM »
Fracking *****s!

I grew up in Idaho Falls, ID. 4700 ft elevation. Lived across the street from my grade school and the winters were brutal and, I was still late for class! The wind ALWAYS blew, by mid-January there was 4-6 feet of frozen snow on the ground, temps of 25 BELOW ZERO were the norm! Jr high, grades 7-9, I attended Clair E. Gale Jr. High and was bussed 10 miles across town for school. Four months into my 7th grade year, a cross-town Jr. high, Central Jr. High, burned down. The Central school was combined with our school so we began 2.5 years of split-sessions where my classmates and I attended 7 AM to 12:15 PM and Central students attended 1 PM to 6 PM.
Point being, our buses picked us up at 6 - 6:15 AM, and during the months of December through February, we stood at the bus stop in temps BELOW -25, froze our asses off, and NEVER had a pissant "snow day"!
In February 1974, my 8th grade year, we had a cold-snap where the temp never rose ABOVE -28 for 23 days! Damn that was cold and for one week during that period, the fuel pipes in the school partially froze and the heat was partially disabled. The classroom temps hovered around 60 degrees! I complained to my dad and he told me "tough shit! Get to school, do your schoolwork, and keep your mouth shut!"

So, suck your lameassed whiny horse shit, DUmmy!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 09:28:44 PM by PatriotGame »
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2010, 09:56:37 PM »
Sounds like when I was going to school in Montpelier, ID.  And yeah, I can vouch for how brutal the winters get there.  They also had to do "split sessions" between the high school and junior high while they were building the new Bear Lake HS.
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Offline vesta111

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 10:21:47 PM »
Fracking *****s!

I grew up in Idaho Falls, ID. 4700 ft elevation. Lived across the street from my grade school and the winters were brutal and, I was still late for class! The wind ALWAYS blew, by mid-January there was 4-6 feet of frozen snow on the ground, temps of 25 BELOW ZERO were the norm! Jr high, grades 7-9, I attended Clair E. Gale Jr. High and was bussed 10 miles across town for school. Four months into my 7th grade year, a cross-town Jr. high, Central Jr. High, burned down. The Central school was combined with our school so we began 2.5 years of split-sessions where my classmates and I attended 7 AM to 12:15 PM and Central students attended 1 PM to 6 PM.
Point being, our buses picked us up at 6 - 6:15 AM, and during the months of December through February, we stood at the bus stop in temps BELOW -25, froze our asses off, and NEVER had a pissant "snow day"!
In February 1974, my 8th grade year, we had a cold-snap where the temp never rose ABOVE -28 for 23 days! Damn that was cold and for one week during that period, the fuel pipes in the school partially froze and the heat was partially disabled. The classroom temps hovered around 60 degrees! I complained to my dad and he told me "tough shit! Get to school, do your schoolwork, and keep your mouth shut!"

So, suck your lameassed whiny horse shit, DUmmy!

YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINT.

It is not the parents that complain it is the teachers Union that objects.

We no longer need our kids in the summer to help bring in the crops.

For 100 years or more teachers worked 9 months a year and were paid as much as if they worked 12.  They , the teachers had a choice here they could take a 3 month vacation or get a summer job.

Sometime in the 50's when the idea of year round schooling came to be, the PTA hit back on the side of the teachers that Children NEEDED to have a few months a year to just be kids.  No worry, no responsibility's, just enjoy being a kid as when they became adults things would change.  Childhood is short, the children should enjoy themselves and have fun now as they will have to spend 50+ years in misery as an adult . Or some kind of weird stuff.

What has not been taken into consideration is that Childhood is all about learning to survive as an adult and learn to take responsibility in later years.

To give children 90 some on days in one chunk of time to be irresponsible is insane.

Sure kids 16 can get summer jobs but what about the 5-15 year old that just run wild, no structure, no learning , just total fun and a gap in any kind of education.

The kids get a few weeks off during the school year, also isolated holidays here and there.    Life is really hard when for kids that are forced to attend school 200 days a year.

I would love to see kids in school 5 days a week for 300 days a year, all vacations to be broken into 4 day vacations.

However the Union will never allow that, they will Yell bloody murder if the teachers do not get their 90 day vacation + the other holidays that add up to spring and winter vacation and the other holidays thrown in.

Year round schooling a comfortable time for the actual education 5 hours a day, the elected classes Art and music, shop and home EC another 3 hours a day.

40 hours a week for both students and teachers, keep the kids out of trouble, and weed out the teachers that are in the job for the 90 day vacation each year.

I would put this in place for the 4 Th. grade as younger kids would fall asleep half way through the day.

Offline longview

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 11:11:10 PM »
YOU HAVE MISSED THE POINT.
It is not the parents that complain it is the teachers Union that objects.
We no longer need our kids in the summer to help bring in the crops.
For 100 years or more teachers worked 9 months a year and were paid as much as if they worked 12.  They , the teachers had a choice here they could take a 3 month vacation or get a summer job.

I disagree with all of your points.

Many kids still contribute to the family businesses during the summer vacations,  many ag-related, but not all.

Teachers in my state at least don't make 12 month wages when they start out, anyway.  And, they can choose whether they receive their pay on a nine or twelve month schedule.
If kids get 90 days where you live (our summer vacations are shorter) to be irresponsible, wild, and have no structure that is not the schools fault.  And as a single mom who worked usually 35 miles away, yet, my children were good responsilbe people, I lay the blame squarely at the parents feet.  It's not the schools' job to "keep them out of trouble."

I sure hope the DUmmies and anyone else out to take on the job of parenting our country's children never, never get their way.

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 02:24:34 AM »
The problem with education today is the kids are smarter than the teachers.  The teachers spend all their time teaching the children the PC crap, to make them "feel good about themselves", and next to no time on the 3 R's. 

Sooooooooooooooo, when little "DUmbasses" graduate from HS, he/she/it is still reading on a "See Spot Run" level, knows how to put a condom on a cucumber, and can practice homosexuality with the best of them, but can't understand why they can't hold a job at Burger King, because they were caught dunking for french fries in the fryer for the third time this month.

I admit, school bored me, and this was back in the late 60's-early 70's, BEFORE all this PC crap.  I had actually taught myself to read before I started kindergarten, so the "Fun with Dick and Jane" books seemed like a waste of time to me.  The best teachers I had were the ones that taught "off the grid" so to speak, going beyond the textbook, especially in the areas of science and mathematics (my favs).

During my senior year (1976-77), we had a major snowstorm in January, and due to the Carter presidency, a natural gas shortage, and a coal miner's strike, we were out of school the entire month.  The school system tried to make up the missed days by holding school on Saturdays (which I skipped, cuz I was working).  Despite being absent a total of 26 days that school year, I still graduated in the top 10% of my class, with a 3.65 GPA.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2010, 06:20:23 AM »
Quote
tinymontgomery  (1000+ posts)      Sat Jul-31-10 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
20. Parents won't like it
 most treat teachers like baby sitters (this  coming from a HS teacher). When we have a snow day they get pissed because they have to figure out what to do with the kid. Make them have to do more work on how to have someone take care of the kids will piss off a lot of parents. They may be forced into it but won't like it. I was speaking to a teacher at a conference who had just come from some town up north like MI or something and the town said they would have to raise taxes or go to 4 day school schedule. Residents voted down tax raise, school system went to 4 days, parents through a fit.

Gee I wonder how this school is doing on their state assessments?   wow.

Schools will never go to full year as state and municipalities cannot afford it.   They can't afford the 180 day school year they have in place now. 


Offline MrsSmith

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2010, 07:17:17 AM »
I don't know what school days are like in Europe now, but in my mother's time as a school child, she went to school 8 hours a day for 5 days and on Saturday (don't remember if it was a shorter day, or not.)  She had 8 weeks off during the summer.  (Of course, Europe has a short ag period, also.)   She thought US schools were far too lax when I was attending, and I graduated in 1977.  They have certainly gotten worse since then.

Personally, I would have no problem with longer school days and longer semesters...or a third semester every year.

However, aside from the teachers objections, there are other considerations.  For example, many schools are still not air conditioned...or have just enough added to the rooms to keep today's kids from being completely miserable.  Not many of today's kids live without A/C at home.  Many school buildings would have to be renovated to add the necessary A/C equipment...and the utility costs would skyrocket.  A/C is more expensive than heating, at least for anyone that heats with natural gas. 

Another consideration is that, while teachers are technically "off" during the summer, this is also their time to get Continuing Education, attend conferences, etc.  I know my husband goes to 5 or 6 different conferences every summer, and usually takes a summer course at a local university or online.

Of course, since he teaches at a college, he also teaches all summer...mostly online classes, so isn't technically "off" anyway...just doesn't keep regular office hours.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 07:24:42 AM »
Gee I wonder how this school is doing on their state assessments?   wow.

Schools will never go to full year as state and municipalities cannot afford it.   They can't afford the 180 day school year they have in place now. 



Actually, from my experience in recruiting and dealing with schools, the reason some of them in CA went to year-round (six weeks off in summer, longer spring and X-Mas breaks) is precisely to save money.
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Offline miskie

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 07:37:47 AM »
I suppose there are a lot of answers to this equation, but I think the solution lies in the hands of the parents. There are always summer programs that kids can attend for a variety of activities, that can supplement their education, provide fun, or both.

My 11 year old is just finishing up her program through her school, where she would do a couple of courses a day - Spanish, French, Swimming, and art.

My 7 year old has done art, science, and assorted field trips.

My 4 year old goes to a daycare/ preschool education program twice a week, and is performing at a 1st grade level. He also goes on little field trips.

The first two are free, the third does have cost, but its not that high. And all three of them still have time to do fun stuff, see friends, go places.. Etc.   The free programs have nothing to do with income, although there are other programs for the needy as well ( The missus and I make about 90K a year ) - So, really Id say it's up to the parents to decide with their kids what to do, and there is a lot out there if one is willing to burn a tiny bit of shoe leather and look.

So, personally, I say leave summer vacation alone. It allows us to give the kids supplemental learning they would not get if they were restricted by formal schooling year round.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2010, 08:57:28 AM »
Well said, longview and MrsSmith; it's easy to hate on the teachers and blame them for everything including the colossal amount of parenting failure in our society, but most of them don't deserve it at all.  In fact a lot of good ones leave the field because it's all too easy to perceive that every hand is turned against them because everyone else wants to make the teachers the scapegoats for their own failings - the school administration, the board, the local government, the parents, the taxpayers, and of course the kids themselves.
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Offline jukin

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 10:09:54 AM »
I'm SHOCKED that whiney liberals are blaming someone else for their own failure.  S-H-O-C-K-E-D!!!
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Offline Celtic Rose

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2010, 10:11:50 AM »
I don't know what school days are like in Europe now, but in my mother's time as a school child, she went to school 8 hours a day for 5 days and on Saturday (don't remember if it was a shorter day, or not.)  She had 8 weeks off during the summer.  (Of course, Europe has a short ag period, also.)   She thought US schools were far too lax when I was attending, and I graduated in 1977.  They have certainly gotten worse since then.

Personally, I would have no problem with longer school days and longer semesters...or a third semester every year.

However, aside from the teachers objections, there are other considerations.  For example, many schools are still not air conditioned...or have just enough added to the rooms to keep today's kids from being completely miserable.  Not many of today's kids live without A/C at home.  Many school buildings would have to be renovated to add the necessary A/C equipment...and the utility costs would skyrocket.  A/C is more expensive than heating, at least for anyone that heats with natural gas.  

Another consideration is that, while teachers are technically "off" during the summer, this is also their time to get Continuing Education, attend conferences, etc.  I know my husband goes to 5 or 6 different conferences every summer, and usually takes a summer course at a local university or online.

Of course, since he teaches at a college, he also teaches all summer...mostly online classes, so isn't technically "off" anyway...just doesn't keep regular office hours.

My understanding is that while European students are in class longer, they generally have less homework to take home (or at least that was true at some point).  That means that they are truly free to do their own thing, or help out at home, after school. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 10:14:38 AM by Celtic Rose »

Offline AprilRazz

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Re: This is what's wrong with education today
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2010, 10:14:28 AM »
Those wondering what is wrong with education need to look no further than the OP and people like greenbriar.
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