defensive primitive being disrespectful of the Gloria Swanson primitive

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6575768

Oh my.

The primitives playing film critics.

patrice  (1000+ posts)        Thu Sep-17-09 11:08 PM
Original message
 
Fahrenheit 9/11 is a great movie.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Thu Sep-17-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. I was actually a little disappointed by it.

Although my expectations were admittedly far too high. Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, and I can't state enough what an important thing it was for our country. I just thought there were a lot more opportunities to show what liars they were. I would have liked to have seen more of a "Daily Show" technique of showing video of the liars repeatedly saying contradictory, misleading lies about the war. There was some of that to be sure, but there was a lot more material out there to hammer the point home using their own words. In a way I thought he kinda let them off the hook.

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Thu Sep-17-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
 
9. Everyone's an editor, everyone's a critic.

Everyone thinks the book should have had a different ending, the movie shouldn't have made that character into such a wimp, the song needed a different chorus.

The notion, given the time when it was made, that Moore let anyone even remotely "off the hook" is truly funny.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Thu Sep-17-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
 
11. Just my opinion

And I don't mean to dismiss the importance of the movie or say that it wasn't effective. But there was a lot more out there to hit them with, that was left unmentioned. I'm a cross examiner, not a film maker.

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Fri Sep-18-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
 
14. Did you know you can sometimes be a direct examiner?

No, really. You can.

As a working artist, I just grow weary of those people who sit back and, from the comfort of their own limited ideas, pronounce how much better something could have been if only it had been done the way they think it should have been done. If you think it should have been done differently, I recommend you get out there and do it.

Opinions, assholes - they do have a whole lot in common.

Ask a lawyer about that "direct" thing. It will considerably expand your role, such as it is.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-18-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
 
16. Thanks for the lesson in pompous gibberish

Damn. I never said "how much better it would be" or suggested that the film wasn't a success or remotely suggested that I could make a better film. I praised the film and gave a very limited critique of one aspect of it. I didn't mean to imply that I was cross-examining the film. What I meant was, I think the evidence was there to systematically tear them down brick by brick with their own words, much like in a cross examination. That would have been more satisfying to me. "As a working artist" surely you expect other to have an opinion on your work, because if no one does you probably aren't selling much art.

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Fri Sep-18-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
 
17. I do all right, thank you - I'm very lucky at that intersection where art meets commerce. Lots of friendly traffic.

But, look at what you wrote - how much Moore missed.

As I said, you do it, and show Michael Moore your vision. You "think" - really, you "think" - the evidence was there? Really? And how do you know this?

I know, I know - it's only your opinion.

Too bad you weren't able to clarify your position without trying - and failing - to take a cheap shot at me, but, hey, seriously, ask a lawyer about that "direct examination" thing.

You'll flip.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-18-09 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
 
20. You are losing me on that "ask a lawyer" line. I am a lawyer, in private practice for the last 15 years. I don't need to ask anyone about direct examination. The fact is as a criminal defense lawyer I make my living cross examining the government's witnesses far more often than directly examining my own. So I'm really not sure what you are talking about. If that is intended as some kind of a slam, I'm sorry to report is was lost on me. I'm not sure what cheap shot I took, but if one was perceived, then I apologize. That being said, your position that no one can have an opinion about art unless he can make better art himself is untenable and just plain goofy.

p.s. I really am glad to hear that business is good.

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Fri Sep-18-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
 
21. I'm sure you're glad - your shot at me was a clear indication of how you cherished my professional well-being. That's the kind of passive-aggressive that warms anyone's heart.

You weren't stating just an opinion; you were stating how it should have been done. That's a bit more than having an opinion; it's stating flat-out that your vision was superior to that of the artist.

My editor at HarperCollins told me that every monkey with a pencil fancies himself an editor. She was right.

And congratulations on your career as a lawyer. I did that for almost thirty years, and it's always funny to find out how many lawyers there are online.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-18-09 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
 
22. Seriously

What was my "shot at you"? Humor me. I am tired of splitting hairs over over whether my opinion was too opinionated for you, but I would like to know what you consider a cheap shot. You have a lot of anger for an artist. None of my business, I'm just saying.

p.s. The namedropping of your publisher was a nice move. Well done.

Tangerine LaBamba  (1000+ posts)      Fri Sep-18-09 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #22
 
23. Let's go past "pompous gibberish," and straight to ""As a working artist" surely you expect other to have an opinion on your work, because if no one does you probably aren't selling much art. "

And now you're a therapist, seeing anger in direct words. For a defense lawyer, you surely do skip the forest for the trees.

I've humored you in all kinds of ways, but, really, your position is right out there, from your first post. You thought Moore could have done it better. I love that you say something about my anger, and then proclaim "None of my business, I'm just saying." There's nothing cuter than a clueless passive-aggressive.

I wish you'd do it. I really do. If, in that time frame, there was a better work on the subject than that movie, I'd love to see it.

"You have a lot of anger for an artist" might be one of the most inane sentences ever uttered. Do you think artists are something besides human, with only the lightest and sweetest of emotions?

And straight, direct language is interpreted by you as anger, when, in fact, you didn't even realize that you took a shot at me (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, and agreeing that you are as clueless as you claim to be.)?

I'm finished here. Carry on by yourself.

DefenseLawyer  (1000+ posts)        Fri Sep-18-09 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
 
24. You don't have a lot of anger for an artist, I stand corrected.

You have a lot of anger for a person. Peace.

Incredibly, that exchange is much of the bonfire.

The scraps are mostly the primitives talking about the famous seven minutes, as if George Bush, upon hearing of 9-11, was supposed to not think about things, and instead within two seconds jump up, and run down the halls of the school yelling-and-screaming, as if that would help matters.

[GOBUCKS]

The old bat is getting vicious, probably as a result of being proven a moron in the DUmp brouhaha over Medicaid eligibility rules.

Lots of greenbriaresque name-dropping and braggadocio, in an attempt at reestablishing her elite status among the DUmp numbskulls.

Kind of like Pitt calling himself a "New York Times bestselling author".

But it's a tough assignment to disprove her moronocity. (I don't think that's a word, but it should be.)

[franksolich]

Yeah, that does kind of concern me, the Gloria Swanson primitive messing up on Medicaid regulations.

Which I attribute to the erosion of age, which alas happens, and here, we're talking about someone who was a classmate of Henry Stimson in law school.