Rs are getting ashamed/embarrassed by truthful facts about their side.

[dutch508]

Star Member KS Toronado (6,619 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216527330

Rs are getting ashamed/embarrassed by truthful facts about their side.
Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2022, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Visited my usual Friday R group at the VFW last night,    when I sat down with them they were discussing the war between Russia/Ukraine. So I asked about chemical/biological weapons being used, and before I knew it everyone at the table was saying UKR had none and Russia was getting ready to use them or already had.

So then I asked "If all thats true......why the hell was tucker carlson saying last night that Hunter Biden was
financing some biolab in Ukraine?" (1)

Went from lively conversation to dead silence with everyone looking down at the table, not at each other to see who
was going to rebuke me. Evidently they had all seen tucker's remarks and now just hung their heads in
shame or embarrassment. 

I hadn't thought about it at the time but this was basically the same reaction I got shortly after Jan 6th when they
were talking about the insurrectionists when I said "Lock up all those #*@%#*^# Antifa people" No one came to
their defense but looked at me in silence like "you know they were republican". 

So going into the midterms we need to make Rs ashamed/embarrassed of their side whenever we can for voting for Rs.
Need to convince them the only way to save their party is to vote them all out of office so they change their ways.


On edit, added

When talking with Rs (I'm surrounded by them) from my experience, never say anything negative about IQ4.5,
it'll lead to an argument you don't need. Best not to even mention his name even though he deserves a lot of
criticism, now that might change after the Jan 6th Committee indicts him, until then be careful he's still their
Lord & hero.

(1) https://nypost.com/2022/03/26/hunter-biden-played-role-in-funding-us-bio-labs-contractor-in-ukraine-e-mails/
A trove of e-mails on Hunter Biden’s infamous laptop — the existence of which was exclusively reported by The Post in October 2020 — found that he played a role in helping a California defense contractor analyze killer diseases and bioweapons in Ukraine.[/i]

ouch...

However, Russia’s new claim that the first son’s investment fund was involved in raising money for biolab projects in Ukraine was accurate, according to e-mails involving Hunter Biden’s dealings in Ukraine, first obtained by The Post and initially reported on by The Daily Mail Friday.

Star Member soldierant (3,615 posts)

60. If the location of the meeting is any indication,

some if not all of this group are veterans. That does not make them politically savvy by any means ... but it does mean they have seen some things that R's with no military connection have not. And that means that sometimes - not always - they will be able to recognize truth when they see it.

There may also be a factor of personality here. I suspect they know that if they try to push back OP could take them to pieces. That he chooses not to is excellent strategy as well as excellent manners.

They are not just veterans. They are Veterans of Foreign Wars. You had to have boots on the ground to be in the VFW... as apposed to the American Legion, who's membership requirement is simply to have served, somewhere, during a conflict.

Star Member gab13by13 (8,806 posts)

5. I live among the Magats

and none of them would react that way in my town.

Perhaps because they read that Hunter's laptop emails show that the Russians were telling the truth...

stopdiggin (6,294 posts)

15. Putin is different

The Putin loving, Putin apologist thing has always made the MAGA crowd kind of uneasy. (they basically tried to pretend that it wasn't there all through 45) And with the brutal invasion of Ukraine - they're back stepping as fast as they can.

I still hear a small amount of whataboutism, two-sides-ism (no doubt gleaned from the usual sources) - but it is basically offered up with a helping of diffidence and placation - rather than the full throttle roar that they have been want to present all their other opinion.)

Putin is an evil piece of sh*t .... and they're fully aware of it.

 

Star Member jcgoldie (8,748 posts)

10. Keep up the good fight at the VFW

I frequently have similar conversations at the local elevator and the hay auction.

Jetheels (806 posts)

16. I haven't noticed any shame among the R's I know.

I don’t think shame is even in their wheelhouse.
Regardless, D’s don’t any messaging apparatus.
Maybe a clever tweet here and there from Bette Midler and a couple other actors, and The Lincoln Project. But I doubt any of that reaches much beyond the choir.

Star Member DownriverDem (5,298 posts)

24. What will it take

to get the repubs (not trumpers) to see their side clearly? They have voted repub for decades. If only they saw clearly how close we are to losing our country to the authoritative view. I have no idea how we can get them to wake up. They claim to be conservative, but are blind to what is actually going on.

 

Star Member PatrickforB (13,396 posts)

27. This is a really good thoughtful post, and I have something personal to support your point.

Again, on a strictly personal note, there have been several times in my own life where events have forced me to a realization of how wrong I had been. I have heard this kind of thing be called an 'epiphany,' and so suppose I can call it that since the word is defined as a usually sudden manifestation or perception of the essential nature or meaning of something, or an intuitive grasp of reality, where different pieces of the puzzle fall into place and suddenly you realize the enormity of something.

In the way back when, I was in my twenties during the 1980s, and was a 'Reagan Republican.' I was this because my grandma Max was, and shared screed after screed with me - long tracts in small font designed to gin up fear of the old Soviet Union - the 'commies.' This made me a truly obnoxious college student. I can remember being a horrible thorn in the side of the professor teaching a class called Social Change.

He taught the class from a Marxist perspective, which drove me bananas, and forced me to write my semester paper using a Marxist perspective. Of course, I bent over backwards putting qualifying language in it, because I didn't want anyone to think I was a 'commie' for goodness sake!

When I look back on my behavior in that class, I am truly ashamed because I was an awful bully during class discussions, and it was the very first class this professor had taught, and I drew him into a proverbial pissing contest. Horrible experience, I'm sure, for the rest of the students in the class, and all because of me. I suspect I ruined the class for everyone. Sigh.

Later on, as time passed, I learned things. I was exposed to different ideas by people I respected, and darned if I did not keep remembering things people had said in the class referenced above, things the professor had said, things his guest speakers had said. Since I am a curious individual and a voracious reader, I compiled a list of authors I wanted to read, beginning with the Communist Manifesto. You know, the USSR and Maoist China never reflected what Marx actually said. I ended up doing additional massive research in economics - looking at books on money supply and central banking, and on the doctrine of shareholder primacy - what capitalism really means.

And, of course, Noam Chomsky - I found him difficult reading. I liked Howard Zinn much better, and his book, "A People's History of the United States," literally blew me away. I learned about oligarchs, wedges, manufactured consent, and then read Klein and learned about shock and awe capitalism. We saw that applied here by Brownie in the aftermath of Katrina. The Bushies allowed private sector companies to maximize profits at the expense of the people who had lost everything in the hurricane.

Somewhere along the line I had the epiphany and became the fervent Democrat I am now.

I share this painful memory because I am human. I was wrong, and when I felt the full weight of my former zealotry, I was ashamed. Big time.

For this reason, I cannot support the assertion by many that no Republicans have any sense of shame. All human beings have a sense of shame. Oh, I don't hold out any hope for dirt-bags like Hawley, Cruz, little Marco, Bats**t Boebert, Marjorie 'Traitor' Greene, McCarthy, Cotton, Gohmert and the rest. They are useful idiots that are towing the line for the billionaire parasites, the oligarchs that have so corrupted our Republic.

But - I am an economist, and interact regularly with people in both parties - local elected officials, economic developers, chamber executives, businesspeople, postsecondary educators, and leaders in other community based organizations. Some, I suppose, are sociopaths. In fact a couple of them are, for sure. But not all, by a long shot. Most are basically decent, and DO have a sense of shame.

The problem is they get their 'news' from biased sources such as Fox and talk radio, because Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine way back in 1987, and we have seen the growth of what Rachel Maddow calls the Right Wing Noise Machine. That is truth, and Trumpy took that to a whole new level, and now we have the Kluxers, Nazis, crazy-right Evangelicals and other tin-foil types crawling out from under slimy rocks everywhere.

This is why I harp on forcing changes to corporate charters to get rid of shareholder primacy. On identifying the government's role as providing services where the profit motive is in direct conflict with the interests of the people receiving the service - like healthcare. On why we should consider eliminating the Fed and having the US Government take over central banking. On why we need to beef up voting rights by passing that John Lewis Act. And so on.

Policies affect us, you know. And some of the policies put in place around taxation, courtesy of Reagan and the supply-side people at the Chicago School, have really, really hurt the Republic. They have.

Anyway, I am human. I was wrong. I have a sense of shame. I was ashamed. I changed.

So can nearly every other human being. But it is hard. When you believe something fervently and are confronted with facts to the contrary, it causes massive discomfort.

If we are to save this Republic, we must, it seems, change our minds as a people.

Sorry for the long post. If you have read this far, why, you get a nice gold star!

 

****ing idiot

Cozmo (1,044 posts)

36. I gotta believe that the in-fighting with the Rpubs that will divide the party

And secure a Dem win in 2022

 

Star Member Chin music (16,747 posts)

39. Here we are talking about mid terms like all things are equal like last time.

There's been no voting rights bill. All things aren't equal, and on top of it, I hear several here who say they won't even put up a yard sign. Things have changed dramatically. When does Congress take up voting rights again? TX was 'the writing on the wall." They thew out 13 THOUSAND mail in ballots. If that doesn't make you sit up to attention.....I don't know what will. The assumption being what? 13 THOUSAND people are trying to commit a felony? And I don't read anything about those people being called to correct those ballots in any way. That's a red light, w a red flag, w a red dawn rising in the background. What are we going to do about it?
Putting all of that aside, nobody who planned the coup has been arrested, let alone put in jail. New offenses arise like ginni ("I'm a ninny" ) Thomas and here's a litany/chorus here who start w the position that she shouldn't be gone after bc 'nothing will happen' and the same refrain about holding Clarence responsible. IMHO, WE CANNOT START OUR ACTIONS BY SHUTTING THEM DOWN.
Yes it's hard. Yes things sometimes seem lopsided, but, it's not an excuse for just shrugging our shoulders and giving them a pass. We have to go through the motions. EVERY TIME. OR nothing will change. jmho.
This "nothing will happen" to the newest of the offenders trope has to stop bc it seems to breed inaction on big things.
Then again, it's just my observation. Maybe I'm wrong.

Star Member DeeDeeNY (3,065 posts)

50. Unfortunately, I don't think that

the Jan 6 Committee has the power to indict. They can only recommend criminal charges to the Justice Dept. But as Adam Schiff has pointed out in numerous interviews, there is no reason why the Justice Dept can’t go ahead at any time to issue subpoenas, start investigations and bring criminal charges, especially since they already have TFG recorded on tape threatening Georgia AG that he needed to find 11,000 votes for him.

Star Member 70sEraVet (1,109 posts)

63. I'm in an American Legion post, and I'm sure most of the guys are Republican.

But my post leadership is pretty strict about forbidding divisive political discussions at the meetings.
Wednesday morning coffee and donut Get togethers is another story, but the discussions never seem to get out of hand.

 

The US awarded $23.9 million to Metabiota later in 2014, with $307,091 allocated for a “Ukrainian research projects,” government spending records showed.

The younger Biden bragged to investors that his company organized funding for Metabiota and helped it “get new customers” including “government agencies,” according to e-mails.

 

[jukin]

Assumes made up facts not in reality.

[SVPete]

Star Member KS Toronado (6,619 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216527330

Rs are getting ashamed/embarrassed by truthful facts about their side.
Last edited Sat Mar 26, 2022, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Visited my usual Friday R group at the VFW last night, ...

  In what -infested perpendicular alternative universe?

[ADsOutburst]

Man, democrats project like a 9,000 lumen spotlight

Democrats ought to be feeling ashamed by truthful facts about their side. People were dismissed as 'conspiracy nuts' for talking about Hunter's laptop, entrapment in the Whitmer kidnapping plot, and a host of other things. And yet, right now the 'conspiracy nuts' look like the top of the class, while the deniers look like they missed the bus and failed art and phys ed.

[CollectivismMustDie]

Man, democrats project like a 9,000 lumen spotlight

Democrats ought to be feeling ashamed by truthful facts about their side. People were dismissed as 'conspiracy nuts' for talking about Hunter's laptop, entrapment in the Whitmer kidnapping plot, and a host of other things. And yet, the 'conspiracy nuts' look like the tops of the class, while the deniers look like they missed the bus and failed art and phys ed.

Not to mention...


WE aren't the ones pushing pedo enablers into positions of power like SCOTUS, causing or supporting high energy prices, indoctrinating children into the gay/pedo/gender cult, leaving the southern border unguarded, shutting down economies over covid, or smearing concerned parents as terrorists for objecting to the grooming of their kids.


That's ALL democrat, and the American people are going to show them just how much they appreciate all of the above, come november.

[BamaMoose]

So, does that mean the DUmmy doesn't believe the Biden administration who have admitted that Ukraine has biological labs that are supported by the US.  Putin's claims are BS, but DUmmies ignoring reality doesn't change the facts.  They remind me of children who will tell a lie for no apparent reason, even when they know you know they are lying.  Most children grow out of that phase, I guess the rest become DUers.