http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=287x6906Oh my.
Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-29-08 07:59 PM
Original message
Need Help Please (bathtub drain)
The tub drains VERY slowly and I want to remove the stopper and snake it. The Draino just isn't working anymore. I've done this before in other places I've lived. No big deal. Just a little messy and smelly.
But I cannot get the frickin bathtub stopper out. I have spent hours trying to get this thing out. And I've Googled for information. Thought perhaps someone here at DU might have a suggestion.
Before I go any further I should probably mention that I have removed the overflow and am reasonably certain that the clog is in the horizontal area and will need to be accessed through the stopper to be removed.
The previous homeowner put a tub liner in the tub and installed a Watco push pull drain. Push and it holds water. Pull and it releases water. No twisting necessary. The stopper has a little mushroom knob on the top. This little mushroom knob unscrews. And leaves the stopper intact. I've tried closing the stopper and turning it counterclockwise in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. I've tried turning the stopper counterclockwise while open in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. I've tried pulling the stopper up while turning it counterclockwise in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. There is no set screw under the stopper. Not one that I can feel or see with a mirror and flashlight. After the little mushroom knob is removed a square tube is visible. It is probably between 2 to 3 inches deep. I've inserted a variety of screwdrivers into this square tube but cannot find a slot or screw to unscrew. I've also tried four sets of hex keys and allen wrenches hoping that one of them would turn the tube to remove the stopper. No luck.
What's the deal? Why is this so frickin difficult? Seems that this kind of thing is normal home maintanence that should be accomplished with a reasonable amount of effort. I really can't afford to call a plumber right now - and I don't think I should have to. Especially since I will probably need to do this again at some point in the future.
The always helpful sparkling husband primitive, who knows some things about bathrooms, especially bathrooms in the basement:
Husb2Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-29-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I am only guessing here (can't picture your situation), but try ....
.... unscrewing the threaded shaft to which the mushroom knob attaches. It could be attached to a threaded hole in the bottom of the drain fitting.
Another possible way forward ..... go to a hardware or plumbing supplys tore and look at the drains. You may find one just like yours, uninstalled and naked.
Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-29-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ummmm
The top looks like this:
after which image of something that looks like a teapot without spout and handle
The little mushroom knob on top threads into the larger stopper below - so when it is removed there isn't a shaft to be unscrewed. There is a square shaped tube. That tube sits inside the larger stopper. There is maybe an eighth of an inch between the rubber gasket below the stopper and the rim of the drain on the floor of the tub - barely enough to get a pair of needle nose pliers. Not enough to get much of a grip. And the stopper itself does not seem to unscrew anything.
Yes, I'm planning on hitting the hardware stores soon.
There is no good reason why this should be so obscure and difficult.
Wash. state Desk Jet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-29-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I t should unscrew ,but
There is a product called hair clog remover ,it is designed for tubs,showers and bathroom sinks. Buy a large bottle and dump i/4 of it down the overflow , than pop the stopper up and pours 1/4 of the bottle down the tub drain. Than run a little water down the tub drain to send the excess into the drain. Let the stuff set for ten minutes than run hot water down the drain. Lots of hot water. After that dump a little more in and repeat the process. Than pick up a bottle of drain care ,pre mix ,and treat the pipes.The stuff really works. And WD40 helps too,!. but Hair Clog Remover is far less of a hassle!Home depot Hair clog Remover red bottle, and Drain Care Green pre mix solution. Same company makes both products.
Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Makes sense that it ***SHOULD*** unscrew but it doesn't.
I've screwed that stopper every which way. A zillion times. It just spins. Forward. Backward. Whatever. Does not tighten or loosen. Just spins.
The square tube cannot be gripped with either pliers or a wrench - either above the stopper or below the gasket. There is not enough tubing above the stopper to get a grip and the space between the gasket and the tub ring is probably only an eighth of an inch or so. Again, very difficult to grip even with needle nose pliers. Hex keys do not seem to fit and I can't locate a screwdriver slot. Or a set screw.
I'm not sure if the metal is brass or brass finish. Eiher way I am somewhat wary of discoloring it with chemicals. And the ones I have used to date have not been particularly effective. An entire bottle of Draino or Liquid Plumber or any of the other chemical clog removers I've tried will get me about two or three showers before the damn thing is once again clogged.
Whatever is in there needs to be removed. The previous homeowner had several children and this has been an issue since I purchased the home although admittedly it has become increasingly severe. I would not be surprised to find that the clog contains more than just hair.
The pipes cannot be plunged without removing the stopper. Plunging simply closes the drain otherwise.
This is the most poorly designed bathtub drain I have ever seen. Not surprisingly, the manufacturer does not have a website.
Apparently the problem is not at all unique to me. At least that is what my Google search results suggest. Unfortunately, the solutions suggested are conflicting or unclear or have failed to solve my problem. Or they are applicable to other models of Watco drains.
If I can ever remove this POS drain stopper I am inclined to replace it with a plain old ugly plastic tub stopper. It would be a definite improvement in functionality.
I am very tempted to take the Dremel to the damn thing to see if I can just cut the POS out and remove it that way.
This is ridiculous. This is a routine maintanence chore - something most homeowners should be able to accomplish with a minimum of effort and epertise in fairly short order. I've been able to successfully remove the stopper and clean the bathtub drain in the last five places I've lived. No problem until I encounter this POS drain. This should not require a $100n plus call to a plumber.
Given the time and trouble, the primitive should really call a plumber, to do a professional job.
And be sure it's a union-card-carrying plumber, too, so as to show solidarity with the working class.
After which the sparkling husband primitive, whose wife makes him share the bathroom in the basement with the family cat, offers some possibly helpful hints, but it's mostly pictures.
Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I've used a combination of flood light and flashlight with a regular mirror, a dental mirror and a magnifying mirror looking for a set screw under the stopper. I can't see one. I can't feel one.
My drain does not look like the chrome picture in your post.
The stopper has a little knob mush like that pictured in your post where the set screw and nipple are labelled. The knob unscrews from the stopper below. What you see after you remove the knob is a mostly square tube that, from above, looks very similar to what you have pictured above.
Thanks for the follow up. This has now become a personal challenge rather than just a huge frustration. Seems that the longtime mom and pop hardware store that specializes in helping folks with pesky problems is keeping reduced hours for the holiday weekend.
I have not been using a dumbell wrench. Didn't know there was such a thing. A quick Google search suggests that it just might fit that square tube and be able to grip it enough to loosen and remove the stopper. Tomorrow I will venture out to find one and try that.
Tomorrow just pick up the telephone and call a plumber.
And remember, a union-card-carrying plumber.
Wash. state Desk Jet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Look here
Hair Clog Remover , I don't care if you put is down the drain with a syringe. I am a contractor and , you can take your dremmel with a metal cutting bit and notch the drain than take a screw driver and hammer than tap it out. Simply buy replacement.
But if you buy the two products I said to buy, Hair Clog Remover red bottle-Home Depot ,and Drain Care ,green pre mix . the green pre mix breaks down the hard deposits in those pipes.That is at the root of the hair clogs.That is why you suspect something more. The procedure takes about three days.
DRAINO DOES NOT WORK ON HAIR CLOGS ,neither does liquid plummer.
The hair clogged in your drain traps the damn Draino.
That's why plumbers hate Draino.
OK, so put some protective tape around the drain and dump the hair clog remover down the pipes. Dump it down the over flow valve too! After that treat the pipes with drain care, It breaks down all the hard deposits in the drain line. Read the directions.
Hair Clog Remover and Drain Care same company manufatures both products.
Draino and Liquid Plummer are super market products! Go to home depot !
For me Friend ,it's a pain in my ass if I have to go out into my truck and pull out the snake. And it's not uncommon for me to run into a fifty year old bathtub,if you know what I mean !
I dunno. The four or five times franksolich has had some sort of cloggage, I've used sulphuric acid. Its sale is restricted and one has to be careful, but sulphuric acid works.
But of course maybe primitives, due to their general incompetence, aren't allowed to purchase sulphuric acid.
Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-01-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. boiling hot water poured down drain
teakettle works well
trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-01-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I second this. Also use a plunger.
Yes, a plunger. Seals much better around a tub drain than a toilet, and you can really get some back-and-forth fluid motion to dislodge stuff.
