Author Topic: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf  (Read 2928 times)

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Offline HAPPY2BME

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Via Fox News:

    A U.S. Navy destroyer had another close encounter with an Iranian Revolutionary Guard “fast attack craft” in the Persian Gulf Monday.

    Two U.S. officials tell Fox News that the Iranian ship came within 1,000 yards of the guided missile destroyer USS Mahan with its weapons manned.

    The officials said the Mahan altered course to avoid the Iranian warship, sounded the danger signal, fired flares and manned its own weapons.

    The Iranian ship did not come closer than 1,000 yards and no warning shots were fired.

    “Coming inbound at a high rate of speed like that and manning weapons, despite clear warnings from the ship, is obviously provocative behavior,” said one American official in describing the Iranian actions.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/25/navy-destroyer-has-close-encounter-with-iran-vessel-in-persian-gulf.html

Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 05:43:59 AM »
I can't believe this.  Has this ever happened in the Persian Gulf before?  I can't even imagine this happening in the Persian Gulf, especially near the straight of Hormuz.
Unbelievable that an Iranian warship with weapons manned approached a small destroyer.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 07:10:48 AM »
I can't believe this.  Has this ever happened in the Persian Gulf before?  I can't even imagine this happening in the Persian Gulf, especially near the straight of Hormuz.
Unbelievable that an Iranian warship with weapons manned approached a small destroyer.

 :lmao:
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2017, 07:42:41 AM »
... a small destroyer.

 :o :o 8900+ tons is considered small nowadays? :o :o WW2 vintage Fletcher Class DDs were 2500 tons.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 09:06:10 AM »
:o :o 8900+ tons is considered small nowadays? :o :o WW2 vintage Fletcher Class DDs were 2500 tons.

Things change, a destroyer or frigate today would be a light cruiser by WWII standards.  But the Kellogg-Briand pact and the Washington Naval Treaty expired many decades ago.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 09:23:00 AM »
Things change, a destroyer or frigate today would be a light cruiser by WWII standards.  But the Kellogg-Briand pact and the Washington Naval Treaty expired many decades ago.

True, WW2 era cruisers were 6000-13000+ tons (DANFS has USS Atalanta at 6000 and USS Baltimore at 13600 tons). Aside from the Atlanta class, "light" and "heavy" referred more to the gun size than the displacement. E.G. CL Brooklyn displaced slightly more than CA Pensacola.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 10:31:12 AM »
True, WW2 era cruisers were 6000-13000+ tons (DANFS has USS Atalanta at 6000 and USS Baltimore at 13600 tons). Aside from the Atlanta class, "light" and "heavy" referred more to the gun size than the displacement. E.G. CL Brooklyn displaced slightly more than CA Pensacola.

The treaty limit was 10,000 tons although frequently cheated on by several players, and the only difference between light and heavy was the gun size, 6" for lights and 8" for heavies.  The CL Brooklyn, for example, was identical to the CA Wichita except that the CL had 5 triple 6" turrets and the CA had 3 triple 8" turrets (The first of a newer 8" that fired a significantly heavier shell than the US treaty cruisers); naturally there were some internal differences in armor distribution with five main turret barbettes in the CL rather than three in the CA, but if anything that meant the CL might have had a slight edge in weight (Official figures on ship weights are basically unreliable for any class initiated prewar since the US was one of the players who lied extensively on it, both for treaty and domestic political reasons, just not to the extent the Germans did).  The Japanese Mogami class CLs made it even simpler, their 5 triple 6" turrets were simply replaced one-for-one with 5 twin 8" turrets when the Japanese shitcanned the treaty.  The limits technically went out the window when the Washington Treaty expired, and the war program production was not limited by number or tonnage, just price tag and resources. 

The dominance of carrier warfare rapidly changed the role of cruisers and much of what they did pre-war is now in the province of ship types other than cruisers.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:21:00 AM by DumbAss Tanker »
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 11:10:06 AM »
The treaty limit was 10,000 tons although frequently cheated on by several players, and the only difference between light and heavy was the gun size, 6" for lights and 8" for heavies.  The CL Brooklyn, for example, was identical to the CA Wichita except that the CL had 5 triple 8" turrets and the CA had 3 triple 8" turrets (The first of a newer 8" that fired a significantly heavier shell than the US treaty cruisers); naturally there were some internal differences in armor distribution with five main turret barbettes in the CL rather than three in the CA, but if anything that meant the CL might have had a slight edge in weight (Official figures on ship weights are basically unreliable for any class initiated prewar since the US was one of the players who lied extensively on it, both for treaty and domestic political reasons, just not to the extent the Germans did).  The Japanese Mogami class CLs made it even simpler, their 5 triple 6" turrets were simply replaced one-for-one with 5 twin 8" turrets when the Japanese shitcanned the treaty.  The limits technically went out the window when the Washington Treaty expired, and the war program production was not limited by number or tonnage, just price tag and resources. 

The dominance of carrier warfare rapidly changed the role of cruisers and much of what they did pre-war is now in the province of ship types other than cruisers.

True. The ~6 months from PH to Coral Sea to Midway pretty much changed the definition of "capital ship" and how naval warfare would be fought. Whether in the Solomons or at Surigao Straight, gun battles were mostly at night. Even at Samar, the freighter-conversion CVEs gave IJN fast battleships and cruisers a good fight, with a lot of support from DDs and 18-knot DEs; had those been all DDs and either CVLs or CVs, Kurita might not have fared so well.

The impression I've gotten is that despite the much lighter shell weight, the 5" and 6" guns did better in gun battles than the 8" guns, due to their higher rate of fire.
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 11:33:34 AM »
The impression I've gotten is that despite the much lighter shell weight, the 5" and 6" guns did better in gun battles than the 8" guns, due to their higher rate of fire.

Really depended on the range and the target.  I have read a theory that Hood was actually blown up by an 8" round from Prinz Eugen given the firing logs from both German ships and the penetration ability of the KM's 60 calibre 8", while no 6" would have done it.  The 6" guns by and large did have a much better rate of fire, but that's also due to the projo being only half the weight in the first place.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 12:45:29 PM »
Really depended on the range and the target.  I have read a theory that Hood was actually blown up by an 8" round from Prinz Eugen given the firing logs from both German ships and the penetration ability of the KM's 60 calibre 8", while no 6" would have done it.  The 6" guns by and large did have a much better rate of fire, but that's also due to the projo being only half the weight in the first place.

Well, there's "hard kill" - like the Hood - and "soft kill". A lot of 6" and 5" hits wouldn't penetrate even the weakly armored Hood. But a lot of 6" and 5" hits could kill a lot of key personnel and damage important equipment, making a larger target much less to fight effectively (as happened with Hiei, though an 8" shell from San Francisco partly disabled her, keeping Hiei in range of daylight air attacks). Japan had much less capacity for repairing damaged ships than did the US, so a shot up IJN cruiser or battleship could be out of action longer than a similarly shot up USN CA, CL, or BB. And with the IJN stretched so thin, leave a greater hole.
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Offline Crazy Horse

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Re: Navy Destroyer Has Close Encounter With Iran Vessel In Persian Gulf
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 06:12:36 PM »
:o :o 8900+ tons is considered small nowadays? :o :o WW2 vintage Fletcher Class DDs were 2500 tons.

You didn't see what I did there.
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