Author Topic: "I Knew!"  (Read 2074 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12577
  • Reputation: +1731/-1068
  • Remember
"I Knew!"
« on: February 22, 2015, 08:26:03 PM »
*****-assed DUmpmonkey creis about war. He KNEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW was wrong.

 ::)

Quote
Fumesucker (38,896 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026259991

I remember how sick and hurt, bitter and ashamed I felt in 2003 watching the invasion gather
Knowing it was based on lies and ultimately destined to be a failure, the lies were obvious to anyone paying attention at the time and the outcome was also obvious to anyone with a modicum of understanding of the history of the region.

The final vote to give Bush his war to show he was a bigger man than his father is something that still raises bile in my throat if I dwell on it much, particularly knowing the truly disgusting, inhuman and dishonorable things done in the pursuit of that war.

Any face associated with that war still brings those feelings back when I see them, I can't help but think of the blood spilled and the human sacrifices made in the pursuit of that horrific and ultimately counterproductive mistake whenever I see someone I associate with that war.

I sat absolutely shocked for a long time after the Senate vote for the IWR, anyone paying attention knew Bush was going to invade, he was practically drooling on himself in quivering anticipation. I felt lost, abandoned, nauseated and most of all ashamed, ashamed that I could not do more to stop the senseless slaughter we all knew was coming.

And this song was running through my head. "War Pigs"


Quote
nashville_brook (19,462 posts)
1. perfect song for that year. as i remember there were the largest protests world-wide to stop that shit. everyone tried to stop it. now it seems like normal -- when have we not been at war with "Eastasia"?


yes yes... everyone was against the war.

Quote
Jackpine Radical (43,300 posts)
153. You are right, and your point deserves more than a gliding over

and an odd feeling of nostalgia for the feelings of solidarity among the activist groups and others in those times. My county Dems' chair was a Vet for Peace, my wife & many of her friends stood with Women in Black, we organized unified events among the local faiths. I remember Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Bah'ai, and pagans getting together for several celebrations of each other. It was a small flowering in a dreadful period in our history.

I think we really need to examine what happened--not only then, but in prototype in GW I, that permitted them to shift public opinion so rapidly. In GW I, in case you don't recall, the general public, still hurting from Vietnam, opposed it by huge numbers (70 or 80%iirc); within a matter of a couple of weeks, they had absolutely turned those numbers around, and the vast majority supported the war.

Somehow they perfected their techniques between the 2 wars. Maybe Grenada was just a field test of some kind.

Those protests you mentioned were hardly even noticed; they already had such tight control of the media that few images of the millions protesting in NYC and elsewhere ever made it to the general public.


Grenada was in 1983, you dumb ****ing hippy! 20 years before Iraq!

Quote
Fumesucker (38,896 posts)
7. I didn't realize either just how spectacularly that fool's errand would fail

Never dreamed it would go on more than twice as long as WWII..

Sherman was both right and wrong, war is hell but it's hell on the wrong people


It failed becuase after we won, Barry forced it to fail

Quote
sabrina 1 (50,109 posts)
130. It was a total success beyond the wildest dreams of the war profiteers/criminals. And it continues

to be more than a decade later.

But if you ever believed the REASONS they gave to get the support of the public, is was a horrible failure, costing hundreds of thousands of human lives, placing us in MORE DANGER than ever, according Diane Feinstein and Rodgers both admitting, inadvertently, in their effort to get MORE money for MORE war profiteers.


It is as if ISIS and radical islam doesn't even exist in their tiny little ****ed up world view.

Quote
Renew Deal (60,208 posts)
4. Since we're talking about memories, let me give you one...

I was in NYC on 9/11 and saw pretty much everything after the second plane crashed including Tower 2 disappearing (I hoped behind the smoke) and Tower 1 collapsing. I had nothing to do so I walked as close to WTC as I could. Cops were trying to close the streets, but they couldn't close them all.

One of the things I remembered while walking down there was the PNAC "New Pearl Harbor" wish.


"Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#.22New_Pearl_Harbor.22


And this was in light of their letter to Bill Clinton about Iraq:


We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts.

Sincerely,

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5527.htm


I knew that day on the street that we were going to Iraq. The gangsters got their excuse.


a bouncy from 9/11. how fitting.

Quote
sabrina 1 (50,109 posts)
80. They never went away. So many Bush holdovers still remain in place. Most of them in Defense. I expected a clearing out when Dems won everything in 2008. Instead we not only didn't get rid of the neocons planted by Bush, we got MORE brought back, see Gates, eg into positions of power.

So it appears they are who actually run this country's foreign policies and no matter who is president, they remain in positions of power.

We are getting ready for another Iraq invasion. And maybe a Ukraine proxy war.

And who is going to stop them this time?


a VRWC

Quote
McCamy Taylor (14,900 posts)
6. I can top that. I wrote one of about a half dozen letters to the editor in July 2012 saying "No War in Iraq" after Sy Hersh broke the story about how Bush and Co. planned to use 9-11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. Mine was in a major Texas newspaper. Most of the others were in the NYT. Meaning that I was against the war even before Obama was against the war. And I may well have been the first Texan against the war. Can I get a party nomination to something out of it?

 
wait... what? in 2012? What?

Quote
sabrina 1 (50,109 posts)
67. I know how I feel about politicians who were fooled, or not, into supporting a war in the WRONG COUNTRY to begin with. Did they really not know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11?

If they were fooled by the Cheney gang, they are definitely not fit to be in positions of power. Imagine how easily fooled they would be if they had the power to decide something as serious as that?

And if they DID know the Cheney gang were lying about Iraq but went along with it anyhow, that makes them a neocon. And neocons are dangerous.

That was a historical decision they were asked to make. To fail at the most important decision a member of Congress will be asked to make, demonstrates that they are unfit for powerful positions in our government.

I felt that way a decade ago or more, and have not changed my mind.

WE knew! Even those of us who were fairly new to politics. And THEY didn't? Or did? I'm not sure which is worse that they feel for the lies of the worst administration in living memory, or they supported that illegal invasion.


they still have no clue.

Quote
Panich52 (1,045 posts)
8. Seeing near orgasmic expressions on FauxNews anchor during Shock&Awe led me to put lock on chnl so I'd never again mistakenly watch it.


Walrus? Is that you?

Quote
sabrina 1 (50,109 posts)
52. Children burned to death with White Phosphorous! Military admits it, no problem.

Those videos we are seeing are pretty well produced. I wonder why our Intel Community cannot find out who is producing them?

I thought the NSA was spying on the world so that when there are 'threats' like ISIS, they would have the ability to collect THEIR data also.

I mean someone is putting them out there.

So why can't we find out WHO?

I remember one video being traced to a place in London a few years ago. So they CAN trace them. So why is there no interest in doing so?


Another liberal meme. another lie.

Quote
Mira (17,723 posts)
50. watching "shock and awe" happened in the same physical spot in my house as watching the challenger explosion. My screams were equally loud.
I lost an entire professional web-community over my protestations about it that day.
I never went back to them,I just could not.
 


such bullshit.
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline ChuckJ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4796
  • Reputation: +534/-37
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 08:34:25 PM »
Quote
Panich52 (1,045 posts)
8. Seeing near orgasmic expressions on FauxNews anchor during Shock&Awe led me to put lock on chnl so I'd never again mistakenly watch it.

How stupid do you have to be to MISTAKENLY watch Fox News? I don't care for MSNBC or CNN, but I've never had a problem with mistakenly watching them.
“Don’t vote for the person who tells you you deserve something. Just don’t do it if it’s something other than life, liberty, or the pursuit of possible happiness. If everyone is telling you you deserve something, vote for the one who is promising you the least. Be suspicious of the man or woman who tell you deserve everything. Because you don’t.” ---Mike Rowe

Offline Big Dog

  • ^^Smokes cigars and knows things.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15581
  • Reputation: +1954/-213
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 09:20:38 PM »
How stupid do you have to be to MISTAKENLY watch Fox News? I don't care for MSNBC or CNN, but I've never had a problem with mistakenly watching them.

Sure, but you're not Doug Bulna, back from the Walrus Protection Program with a new identity.
Government is the negation of liberty.
  -Ludwig von Mises

CAVE FVROREM PATIENTIS.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2015, 09:27:10 PM »
At the time, I thought all the dire pronouncements about Saddam's nuke program were some pretty thin beer, with no solid publicly-released evidence to back them up, and the whole question about whether there was anything to his chemical or bio programs could have been resolved by a reconnaissance in force to a half-dozen of the most likely sites without buying into all the crap involved in a full-scale invasion and occupation unless the large-scale raid found something really important.  I also thought (And still do, more than ever) that the touchingly-naive Rumsfeld-Bush-Cheney faith that everyone wanted to be Western democracies if only we removed their troublesome totalitarian rulers was ridiculously mistaken and could not end well. 

As a Soldier, of course, I was perfectly willing to do my best to support whatever mission the Army got, whether I personally thought it was informed by sound strategy or not, because that's what Soldiers do.  Of course Saddam and his two boys were definitely oppressive sadistic shitbags responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, and would have been responsible for hundreds of thousands more if left to their own devices, so taking them out was at least good kharma even if the reason and rationale for it was unfeasibly FUBAR beyond all coherent description.

A Soldier goes where his Army goes and fights its fights.  Anyone in the profession of arms who doesn't want to go where it's happening for his side is in the wrong line of work.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:47:23 PM by DumbAss Tanker »
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline docstew

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4741
  • Reputation: +282/-187
  • My Wife is awesome!
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 09:38:49 PM »
As much as that DUmmie knew that OIF was a mistake, I KNOW that ANY military venture under the command of this administration is not only a mistake that will fail, but that it will experience severe mission creep, have laughable strategic goals and a pitifully communicated endstate, and will be undermined from the top before it even starts (i.e. "we're going to advise the IA in liberating Mosul in June", thereby giving ISIS 4 months to move forces there).

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 09:56:07 PM »
As much as that DUmmie knew that OIF was a mistake, I KNOW that ANY military venture under the command of this administration is not only a mistake that will fail, but that it will experience severe mission creep, have laughable strategic goals and a pitifully communicated endstate, and will be undermined from the top before it even starts (i.e. "we're going to advise the IA in liberating Mosul in June", thereby giving ISIS 4 months to move forces there).

True.  Ironically, the grossly-misguided belief of the Bush administration that Sharia-based government and democracy are compatible, possibly their most singular strategic blunder, is a bet that has been doubled-down upon by the current Oministration.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline HawkHogan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1160
  • Reputation: +101/-24
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 11:17:55 PM »
Reading the Dummy talk about watching the towers burn, I wonder why no Dummy has claimed to be one of the responding firefighters yet?

Offline diesel driver

  • Creepy Ass Cracker and Smart-Ass White Boy!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9130
  • Reputation: +609/-55
  • Enhancing My Carbon Footprint!
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 09:24:49 AM »
Because it would mean the DUmmie had a JOB, and therefore had to WORK.
Murphy's 3rd Law:  "You can't make anything 'idiot DUmmie proof'.  The world will just create a better idiot DUmmie."

Liberals are like Slinkys.  Basically useless, but they do bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
 
Global warming supporters believe that a few hundred million tons of CO2 has more control over our climate than a million mile in diameter, unshielded thermo-nuclear fusion reactor at the middle of the solar system.

"A dead enemy is a peaceful enemy.  Blessed be the peacemakers". - U.S. Marine Corp

You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out of office.

Offline obumazombie

  • Siege engine to lib fortresses
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21814
  • Reputation: +1661/-578
  • Last of the great minorities
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 10:25:31 AM »
True.  Ironically, the grossly-misguided belief of the Bush administration that Sharia-based government and democracy are compatible, possibly their most singular strategic blunder, is a bet that has been doubled-down upon by the current Oministration.

The departure point is the powers that be thinking that islam is the religion of peace.
There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1710/-151
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 09:41:46 PM »
The departure point is the powers that be thinking that islam is the religion of peace.

They're so busy shrieking and freaking out whenever a town puts up a Nativity scene, or a veterans' cemetery has a cross, or the word 'God' is mentioned in school, that they have not the slightest clue how strong a grip a real theocracy has on the minds of its people.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline RayRaytheSBS

  • "There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men."
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
  • Reputation: +200/-13
Re: "I Knew!"
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 07:14:18 AM »
Quote
sabrina 1 (50,109 posts)
52. Children burned to death with White Phosphorous! Military admits it, no problem.

Those videos we are seeing are pretty well produced. I wonder why our Intel Community cannot find out who is producing them?


First off DUche, like one of your counterparts has quoted 'war is hell'. We in the United States Military have done more to prevent unnecessary casualties than any other army in the history of the world... PERIOD.

 That being said, civilian casualties in a counterinsurgency fight like we were in in Iraq post-OIF I were inevitable.

The ignorance of the american public as to why we have so many 'preventable' civilian casualties is why we have not been able to fully prosecute this war  to the fullest from the start.

If the military had had to prosecute the civil war or WWII with the same restrictions we have today, they would have never succeeded.

 



“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms”

“The best things in life are beyond money; their price is agony and sweat and devotion ... and the price demanded for the most precious of all things in life is life itself - ultimate cost for perfect value.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers