The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: asdf2231 on July 13, 2008, 01:37:47 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3611629
evilkumquat (244 posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:03 PM
Original message
Why Exactly is it Bad to Speak Ill of the Dead?
Advertisements [?]This is not meant as a snarky question, or a belligerent post, but exactly why are the dead supposed to get a "free pass" from the living?
There have been several recent notable deaths of either very evil people, or people who helped enable evil people. For each of these passings, the threads have been full of posts gloating or chastising the gloaters.
Why exactly is it bad to acknowledge that the world is a slightly better place now that some people are gone, if for nothing more than a sense of justice?
"They aren't here to defend themselves" is a weak argument, since many bad people, while living, felt no guilt in attacking the defenseless.
"It's disrespectful" also does not work. What is it about death that automatically grants one the respect that many were not willing to grant them in life because of their evil deeds?
"Think of the family?" Did the deceased think of the families of those who they were hurting? Did the deceaseds' families try and prevent the evil done by their loved ones? Didn't the deceaseds' families usually directly benefit from the actions taken by their dead relations at the expense of someone else?
"It makes us look bad." Should we really care about what "they" think of us at this point? "They" have been working so hard for so long to hurt us; what they think of us should be the least of our concerns at this point.
So please, someone, anyone, give me a good reason why I shouldn't feel pleased when evil people die. I absolutely, sincerely want an acceptable answer to this.
EvilCumSquat wan't to know what the big deal is with threads celebrating Tony Snows death.
tridim (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. People like Tony Snow don't listen to us dead or alive.
IMO it's necessary to criticize BushCo enablers even in death.
SpiralHawk (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Hell, we do it all the time. Smirk." - Commander AWOL
Edited on Sun Jul-13-08 01:10 PM by SpiralHawk
"Look where it's gotten us Have-More Homelanders. We gots America and the world by the short hairs. Heh, heh. Smirk."
- Commander AWOL,
Skull & Boner Occult Division
of the Vaunted Republicon Chickenhawk Brigade
I think it was trying to be funny...
Liberal Veteran (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have decided that about a week is enough time to remain respectfully silent.
After that, grave piss to your heart's content.
BTW: I hope it's hot down there in hell, Jesse Helms. Thank you for making the world a better place.....by dying.
TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. The dead don't get a free pass, but...
to understand it goes back to when religion was taken more seriously than now. The idea is that when they're dead, it's time for God to judge them, and well past time for anything that we could do to them. Even without God in the picture, there's always that mean ol' Karma that can get em.
One way or the other, though, the rotten bastid is dead and we can't really do anything to him any more, so remember the crimes but let the criminal go on to his whatever.
Even more than all that, though, I suspect there's so much superstition about death that somewhere we got it into our heads that Karma will come back and nail us if we don't respect the dead. Or, even if they don't suck our blood and eat our brains, they will haunt us.
dadsblacksheep (542 posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. It seems speaking the truth is also confused with speaking ill of the dead.
which is too bad.
Phred42 (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Because DU mods will delete your posts
Robeson (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. And there it is. The OP's question has been answered.
pitohui (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. because we the living are supposed to eat any kind of shit apparently
tony snow is an evil man, i remember well when he announced that bush would be following a "soft dollar" policy -- a policy that has utterly destroyed the value of our savings and means that my husband can't project any circumstance where he will be able to retire after a lifetime of work
if we can't speak ill of such a monster, who has cheated us of something precious, i would like to know just who we're allowed to speak ill of
you cannot libel or slander the dead, the dead have no more interest in our conversation, but we the living have every interest in frank HONEST discussion
when frank honest discussion of evil is not allowed because one of the evil doers has passed away, i have to raise an eyebrow
What a banner week for DU!
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evilkumquat (244 posts) Sun Jul-13-08 01:03 PM
Original message
Why Exactly is it Bad to Speak Ill of the Dead Conservatives?
Fixed
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I am all for letting DUers speak to their heart's content - let the world see them for who they are.
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I am all for letting DUers speak to their heart's content - let the world see them for who they are.
Agreed. And forward the links to Rush and Hannity, so that they can be broadcast worldwide.
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I am all for letting DUers speak to their heart's content - let the world see them for who they are.
Agreed. And forward the links to Rush and Hannity, so that they can be broadcast worldwide.
Is someone doing that? If not, we should. Subscribers would have better results.
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I would have no problem dancing on the grave dancer's grave.
NONE.
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Pamela Troy (562 posts) Sun Jul-13-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. Okay. Here's my answer.
“Should I feel guilty because I’m glad he’s dead? If I feel like liberal democrats are American traitors, isn’t that a logical response?â€
Comment made in the wake of Paul Wellstone's death on Lucianne.com
First of all, let's make something clear -- the announcement by the moderators about removing inappropriate comments in the wake of Snows death was NOT prompted by mere criticism of Snow's career. It was prompted by ugly "jokes" that were posted here in the wake of news about Snow's relapse several months ago. Some people here are trying very hard to pretend that the moderators are overreacting to "thoughtful criticism" of Snow. That's not what it is about. It's about people mocking the man's suffering, and the suffering of his family.
Now, to answer your questions:
Why exactly is it bad to acknowledge that the world is a slightly better place now that some people are gone, if for nothing more than a sense of justice?
In most cases it takes a rather staggering freight of hubris and malice to declare unequivocally that the death of an individual human being has made the world "a slightly better place." Making this assumption in the context of politics isn't just arrogant and malicious -- it's dangerous. The notion that the death of certain human beings will make the world a better place is what has driven institutionalized mass murder on both the right and the left.
"They aren't here to defend themselves" is a weak argument, since many bad people, while living, felt no guilt in attacking the defenseless.
Whether or not the person in question felt guilt about "attacking the defenseless" is completely beside the point. Moral and decent people do not take their cues on morality and decency from the immoral and the indecent. A system of "ethics" that's applied ONLY to people you like is not a system of ethics.
"It's disrespectful" also does not work. What is it about death that automatically grants one the respect that many were not willing to grant them in life because of their evil deeds?"
It's not just Tony Snow's death. It was just as disgusting when people were mocking him for his terminal illness when he was still alive.
"Think of the family?" Did the deceased think of the families of those who they were hurting? Did the deceaseds' families try and prevent the evil done by their loved ones? Didn't the deceaseds' families usually directly benefit from the actions taken by their dead relations at the expense of someone else?
I had no idea you knew Snow's family so well and on such a personal basis that you can make such a confident assertion. That said, I can only repeat: Moral and decent people do not take their cues on morality and decency from the immoral and the indecent. A system of "ethics" that's applied ONLY to people you like is not a system of ethics.
"It makes us look bad." Should we really care about what "they" think of us at this point? "They" have been working so hard for so long to hurt us; what they think of us should be the least of our concerns at this point.
Inasmuch as "they" are not just Freepers and right-wingers, but other liberals and Democrats who loathe Freeper-like behavior whether it comes from Freepers or DU-ers, yes, we should care. This is a POLITICAL BLOG. Much of politics involves not engaging in such repulsive behavior that you alienate the very people you are trying to convince and embarrass those who would otherwise be on your side.
I've written a great deal about this kind of malice, and how destructive, how ugly it is. In most of my writings, I've used the many, many examples available from the right side of the aisle.
So I'm not going to bite my tongue when I see Democrats and liberals engaging in similar mockery of the personal tragedies of Republicans and Conservatives.
I really have to say I'm astounded by the emotional stake so many DUers seem to have in hatred. Some of you clutch it to your chests like an alky hugging a bottle. Is reserving a group of people you can despise unreservedly so very important to you guys? Is everything truly spoiled for you if you DON'T have someone whose sufferings you can mock? I'm reminded of the people who become outraged at the prospect of prison inmates NOT being mistreated, NOT being abused, NOT being raped or tortured.
Is that nasty tickle you get when contemplating the pain of someone whose politics you dislike so very, very important to you?
The bolded portion pretty much sums up The Hive.
This Pamela person makes far too much sense. Probably won't last long.