The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on November 07, 2014, 03:50:38 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025782779
Oh my.
MineralMan (68,406 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:44 PM
I Would Like a Democratic Socialist Government in the U.S.
That's the political philosophy I hold. That is the system I believe would be the best one for this country. I absolutely believe that such a system is impossible to obtain in the United States within the lifetimes of anyone capable of reading DU. I cannot get what I want, no matter how much I want it.
So, every election, I vote for the Democrats on the ballot. I vote in every election. In the primaries, I vote for the most progressive Democrat that is trying to get on the general election ballot. In the general election, I vote for the Democrat. I don't vote for a third party candidate who may actually be for democratic socialism. That candidate cannot win, and it's important that the Republican not win. Here's why:
Outcomes are important. There are many outcomes that I want to see. I wanted marriage equality. In a democratic socialist government that would be a given. In the U.S., it's not a given.
In 2012, I and the other Democrats in Minnesota elected a majority of Democrats in both houses of our state legislature. In 2013, we got marriage equality. The year before that, the previous Republican majority actually put a constitutional amendment on the ballot that would have made marriage equality almost impossible. Democrats vs. Republicans. Democrats moved toward my desired outcome on that issue.
In 2013, that majority also increased the minimum wage in Minnesota, despite the outrage of Republicans. They did not raise it high enough, but they did increase it. They made progress toward a desired outcome. There are many other examples. Democrats froze tuition in our state's Colleges and Universities. That was not an optimal outcome, but it was progress.
I vote for outcomes. I vote for progress toward outcomes. I vote for Democrats because past performance demonstrates that progress is made when Democrats are in control of government. When Republicans are in control, progress toward desired outcomes is blocked or reversed. It is a simple equation. Sometimes progress is dramatic. Sometimes goals are reached. Sometimes progress is slow, but there is still progress toward desired outcomes.
I can't have my democratic socialist nation and still live in the U.S. I can't afford to emigrate. So, I vote for the candidates who can win and who are the most likely to make progress toward desired outcomes in a long list of goals. I vote for Democrats, because of the two parties who are always in control, only the Democrats make progress toward the outcomes I desire.
Elections are about temporary control of government. That's all they accomplish. We either get progress or the blocking of progress for a two-year time period. Then, we have another election, which affects another two years. We can vote or not vote. If we do not vote, there is a greater chance that the party which seeks to block or reverse progress will be in power. I want progress toward goals and realize that democratic socialism is not possible. So:
I Vote For Democrats!
MineralMan (68,406 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:01 PM
1. Yes, I did Rec this thread.
I did not do so to get it on the Greatest page, but only after it already had. I Rec my threads because I believe in them. I stand by them. They are my opinion, so I do recommend this and other threads. I'm writing this reply, because some people seem to think it's wrong to Rec one's own thread. I disagree.
Warpy (79,709 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:29 PM
7. I'm with you on this one.
Going to a mixture of capitalism and socialism the way western Europe did is the smartest course, especially if government people realize they need to rein in the bankers and discourage the private wealth we've seen billionaires amassing since Reagan handed the country to them.
Democratic Socialism might be a way to get there.
MineralMan (68,406 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:37 PM
8. I just don't see a path to get there,
given the political split in the United States and the deeply-ingrained system we already have in place. I can't find any sequence of events that would lead to that kind of change. I wish I could. Maybe someone will reply to this thread with an outline of how it might be done.
upaloopa (5,021 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:03 PM
2. For Democratic Socialism to work I think it
would take a paradigm shift in thinking. Currently we champion competition over cooperation. We love playing zero sum games. For me to win someone has to lose.
I don't know how to change our society to one of mutual cooperation for the benefit and well being of everyone.
I'm thinking the commune idea from the sixties could come back were we have cells of cooperation and grow the cells to where they merge with other ones growing even bigger to become communities of social democracy.
On edit:
I think the idea going around yesterday that people didn't vote because their issue wasn't on the ballot or wasn't talked about is part of the problem thinking. Because we could also vote for the success of other issues even if they don't effect me. Thinking collectively rather than individually is needed.
MineralMan (68,406 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:08 PM
3. I truly believe that it is impossible in the U.S.
As closely divided as we are, I cannot see any possibility of such a major change in our system of government. The process required to establish a democratic socialist government is just not there. Unless we could somehow disenfranchise almost 50% of the population, there is simply no way to do it. Not in our lifetimes, anyhow. Not even in the lifetimes of the millennials among us, I think.
I'm 69. I'm absolutely certain we will not have democratic socialism in my lifetime, so I'll just keep voting for Democrats and encouraging others to do the same. That's what I can do.
upaloopa (5,021 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:20 PM
6. I'm 68. If the repubs don't **** with my pension
and Social Security I will be ok even though repubs are in power. But that does not mean I don't care about the problems of Milenials. Because I have a vision of what a good life we could make for everyone in this country. I know it is cornball thinking to most of us but I believe that if we all had the same vision and wanted it bad enough we could bring it about.
KingCharlemagne (1,077 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:08 PM
4. Hell, I'll settle down and shut up for Social Democracy, never mind the Socialism. But
we're going to be lucky indeed to avoid neo-feudalism.
Mature adults have to vote AGAINST the greater evil. Whatever flaws the Dems have, individually and as a party, pale before the EVIL that is today's Republican Party. (See the poll by True Blue Door for a catalogue of recent GOP perfidy and treachery if you need a reminder. It will blow you away.)
MineralMan (68,406 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:09 PM
5. Exactly.
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To summarize: "I am a socialist. I vote for Democrats."
Brevity is the soul of wit, you * son of a bitch.
*Edit: removed 'peg-leg'. This son of a bitch has both legs, to the best of my knowledge.
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upaloopa (5,021 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:03 PM
2.
Currently we champion competition over cooperation. We love playing zero sum games. For me to win someone has to lose.
If you're 68, and still think of economics in this fashion, it's no wonder you're under the delusion that a change in parties will somehow threaten your precious "benefits"... :whatever:
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Warpy (79,709 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:29 PM
7. I'm with you on this one.
Going to a mixture of capitalism and socialism the way western Europe did is the smartest course, especially if government people realize they need to rein in the bankers and discourage the private wealth we've seen billionaires amassing since Reagan handed the country to them.
Democratic Socialism might be a way to get there.
Yeah,and they are all effing bankrupt you stupid hag.
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upaloopa (5,021 posts) Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:03 PM
Currently we champion competition over cooperation. We love playing zero sum games. For me to win someone has to lose.
If you're 68, and still think of economics in this fashion, it's no wonder you're under the delusion that a change in parties will somehow threaten your precious "benefits"... :whatever:
The DUmmie has it exactly backwards. Socialism like they want is a zero sum game. All share in the rewards, but not all contribute. Someone has to give their share to the leaches and moochers like we do now. Only socialism makes everyone equally miserable.
In a purely capitalistic economy, most of you DUmmies would have starved to death long ago. Put out, or get out.
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I'm looking on the bright side here....I'll be long gone from this world when the DUmmies get their wish....but then, my son and grandkids might see that day, so there is no bright side. :thatsright:
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His lucid moments seem to be getting rarer as time goes by.
:mental:
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It sounds like Minnesota Moses has spent too much time wandering around out in the wilderness eating strange mushrooms.
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It sounds like Minnesota Moses has spent too much time wandering around out in the wilderness eating strange mushrooms.
Probably ate some bad Lutefisk.
Cripes, even the good stuff will have you "speaking in tongues".
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I notice there is no definition of this Democratic Socialism of which they speak. And there usually never is. It is a :stoner: dream. DUmmies.