The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on August 27, 2014, 08:37:27 AM
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025448172
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:04 PM
Puzzledtraveller (4,745 posts)
Should people who are able to work, have to work?
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
My knowledge of Marx is cursory at best but the above statement heralded by Marx but not attributed to him appears to be popular among many self identified Marxist. I wanted to know more about what Marx thought about the idea and found the following. My problem with the idea has always been that people should not have to work if they do not want to, it's that simple, for me. So I am struggling to understand why we would ever support such a system, at least the portion of "each according to his ability". As Marx himself appeared to understand that this would be applicable at some point in time in which work isn't the four letter word it is now to many. That being physical drudgery. I don't know about you but I do not see a time in the near future when work will not be physical, demanding, demeaning, repetitive and joyless as it can be to so many.
Personally I find the idea dangerous to progressivism, am I just understanding it wrong?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need#Debates_on_the_idea
Marx delineated the specific conditions under which such a creed would be applicable—a society where technology and social organization had substantially eliminated the need for physical labor in the production of things, where "labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want". Marx explained his belief that, in such a society, each person would be motivated to work for the good of society despite the absence of a social mechanism compelling them to work, because work would have become a pleasurable and creative activity. Marx intended the initial part of his slogan, "from each according to his ability" to suggest not merely that each person should work as hard as they can, but that each person should best develop their particular talents
Now do you see why Marx was an idiot?
Nevermind,impossible for you loons.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:10 PM
conservaphobe (1,107 posts)
3. If ample work is provided and workers are provided a living wage, yes.
I don't think there's many people out there who just don't want to do anything. Guess you don`t read the DUmp
I think there's a lot of people out there, including myself, who don't want to do the abusive and degrading work that comes with unlivable wage jobs.
There's many jobs I'm capable of doing and would be happy to do, if provided.
In an economy that provided work like that for everyone, there'd be no excuse for an able person to sit at home... but in this economy that is a totally irrelevant expectation.
So that is your built in excuse for being a parasite.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:12 PM
woo me with science (27,861 posts)
4. ...
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c0/ac/34/c0ac3452257a0b559267e0acd5ed9e48.jpg)
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:16 PM
Puzzledtraveller (4,745 posts)
5. Damn, thank you!
Thought I was on the fringe with how I see it, well, maybe it is the fringe, but I'm staying put.
Trust me,you are the norm for the democrat party base,a useless taker.
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:35 PM
Star Member hunter (19,733 posts)
10. R. Buckminster Fuller is correct.
We have the ability to get rid of all the shitty menial mind-destroying work, the ability to retire all the abusive bosses, and all the rotten cops.
The protestant "work ethic" needs to be killed dead and buried with all the other toxic crap of this society.
What we proudly call "economic productivity" is a direct measure of the damage we do to earth's environment and our own humanity.
Everyone needs to step back and chill out.
A twenty or thirty hour workweek, long vacations, early retirements with good pensions, free education throughout life, a minimum wage that supports a comfortable standard or living, a national single payer health care plan, and a very generous welfare system would be a good place to start.
You forgot the damn pony!
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:05 AM
Star Member BainsBane (28,698 posts)
22. We already have that. It's called capitalism
Only it's only a few who are supported by the many. But of course the perpetually self-entitled believe they should be able to sit back while the peons labor to support them. No wonder some speak so favorably of Rand Paul. He supports the idea that the rich should pay not taxes, have no regulation, and be entirely untethered in their exploitation of labor.
I have seen right-wingers joke about shit like this. but I have never encountered people who actually strove to do and be absolutely nothing.
Somehow you managed it now get busy,that sammich isn`t making itself.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:25 PM
Erich Bloodaxe BSN (3,228 posts)
7. Provide the jobs, and a lot more people will happily work.
Despite what RWers think, most people who aren't working aren't simply 'lazy'.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:25 PM
Matrosov (81 posts)
8. Then wouldn't the entire system unravel?
I have always thought of fFrom each according to his ability, to each according to his need" as a sort of contract between the people.
If you have the ability to work, then you should contribute to the rest of society in the best way that you can. In return for your contribution, the rest of society provides you to have your needs met.
The doctor works to keep people healthy. The farmer works to feed people. The tailor works to clothe people. The carpenter works to provide people with shelter.
In return, the ones I just mentioned don't have to worry about their health, their food, their clothes, and their homes, because society provides them with these things.
If someone has the ability to work but does not wish to contribute, they don't have the greater good of society in mind. They are being selfish, and this kind of behavior would lead to the unraveling of the whole system.
You are not long for the world.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:28 PM
kelly1mm (2,644 posts)
9. There are thousands of people early retireing (in 30's-40's) due to the ACA and 401k
plans. My wife retired this past June after 22 years as a teacher (she is 46). I will retire next April (I am in the tax field) at 44. Some of said upon hearing of our retirement and especially our plan to use ACA subsidies to pay for health care that we had a duty to work,even though we have more than enough assets and after tax investments to last way past our pensions kicking in and then SS. Heck, even without SS we should be fine.
This has been discussed numerous times in early retirement forums. If interested, I would recommend Mr. Money Mustache for 'regular' early retirement tips and if you want to go hardcore (like 7 years from $0 to retired) then check out early retirement extreme.
No financial interest in either of them by the way. Just helped me to formulate a plan.
Hope you both are dead within a year you ****ing leech.
Response to Puzzledtraveller (Original post)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:44 PM
Star Member ohnoyoudidnt (734 posts)
11. No.
Our tax system defiinetely needs some adjustments, but no one should be forced to work. If the inheritance tax was 50 percent and an heir paid their tax and doesn't have to work for a living,
then I would have no problem with that.
Lazy vermin.
-
So, no matter what my qualifications may be, I should be allowed to do what I would like to do most, huh? ......I'm leaning toward brain surgery on DUmmies.
-
So, no matter what my qualifications may be, I should be allowed to do what I would like to do most, huh? ......I'm leaning toward brain surgery on DUmmies.
That's like running a tire shop for sleds.
-
That's like running a tire shop for sleds.
I will never be behind in my work.
-
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 27, 2014, 03:05 AM
Star Member BainsBane (28,698 posts)
22.
But of course the perpetually self-entitled believe they should be able to sit back while the peons labor to support them.
Spoken by someone who makes a living off of the taxpayers while begging money from benefactors. If only she were smart enough to recognize the pure irony of such an asinine statement...
-
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
to
"From each according to his ability only if you feel like it, to each according to his need."
If you ever wondered what it meant to be to the left of Marx, here it is.
.
-
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
...
A twenty or thirty hour workweek, long vacations, early retirements with good pensions, free education throughout life, a minimum wage that supports a comfortable standard or living, a national single payer health care plan, and a very generous welfare system would be a good place to start.
I would love to see a rational and cogent explanation of just how the economics of that one could possibly work. It makes the underwear gnomes look like physics professors.
-
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
to
"From each according to his ability only if you feel like it, to each according to his need."
If you ever wondered what it meant to be to the left of Marx, here it is.
Marx lived off his wife's inheritance. What did he ever contribute to society or to his own "needs"? He died poor of alcoholism.
-
Response to woo me with science (Reply #4)
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:35 PM
Star Member hunter (19,733 posts)
10. R. Buckminster Fuller is correct.
A twenty or thirty hour workweek, long vacations, early retirements with good pensions, free education throughout life, a minimum wage that supports a comfortable standard or living, a national single payer health care plan, and a very generous welfare system would be a good place to start.[/quote]
I would love to see a rational and cogent explanation of just how the economics of that one could possibly work. It makes the underwear gnomes look like physics professors.
See Greece for the answers you seek.
-
See Greece for the answers you seek.
No, Greece is what actually happens, but even Greece isn't a patch on what that idiot is describing.
-
I was expecting this
http://youtu.be/pqzpQPDSr2s
But it does fit.
-
My knowledge of Marx is cursory at best
Ya Think?
-
These people have got to be the laziest wastes of air in history. If they spent as much effort applying themselves to work as the do finding ways to justify lazing around the house this country would be in better financial shape
-
OK dummies. I have an idea. How about ya all move to a couple three states, set up your utopian country, and see how it works. There is one little catch... once you do that you can never, ever, ever return to the other 47 states that would make up the USA.
And while we are at it... let's build a fence to keep you in your utopia forever keep the uneducated rethuglican masses out of your wunnerful utopia.
Sound good?
-
OK dummies. I have an idea. How about ya all move to a couple three states, set up your utopian country, and see how it works. There is one little catch... once you do that you can never, ever, ever return to the other 47 states that would make up the USA.
And while we are at it... let's build a fence to keep you in your utopia forever keep the uneducated rethuglican masses out of your wunnerful utopia.
Sound good?
Yes, sounds good.
-
OK dummies. I have an idea. How about ya all move to a couple three states, set up your utopian country, and see how it works. There is one little catch... once you do that you can never, ever, ever return to the other 47 states that would make up the USA.
And while we are at it... let's build a fence to keep you in your utopia forever keep the uneducated rethuglican masses out of your wunnerful utopia.
Sound good?
I hope WV won't be one of those 3 states. I hold dual citizenship to both WV and VA,
I'd leave VA in a heartbeat since it insists on electing dimrats, and especially over our governor and 2 Senators.
-
I wonder what her DU name is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
-
Just got done reading the whole pile of stoopid. The headache is too bad to comment much, except....
Marx lived off his wife's inheritance. What did he ever contribute to society or to his own "needs"? He died poor of alcoholism.
It's a wonder what unending free time, bankrolled by someone elses' labor or good fortune will produce.
(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608037017121523317&pid=1.7)
:mental:
-
I wonder what her DU name is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
jump to the 8:30 mark, the dialogue between it and it's mom is great!
-
I wonder what her DU name is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
An 'UndergrouindPanther' wannabe. :whistling:
And, the admission at 2:45 is a relief.
-
jump to the 8:30 mark, the dialogue between it and it's mom is great!
That's one time a mom should have had an abortion.
-
That's one time a mom should have had an abortion.
Retroactive, even.
-
That's one time a mom should have had an abortion.
With the size of that, it probably would've taken two.
-
Is that thing named Pat by any chance? At one point it described not caring about finding a girlfriend. Mentally ill homo or mentally ill trans? :mental:
-
Is that thing named Pat by any chance? At one point it described not caring about finding a girlfriend. Mentally ill homo or mentally ill trans? :mental:
From the way she kept rubbing and wiping her runny nose, I'd say she's also a cocaine/meth addict. Maybe she'll self abort(overdose).
-
In an economy that provided work like that for everyone, there'd be no excuse for an able person to sit at home... but in this economy that is a totally irrelevant expectation.
You Dummies would ALWAYS find an excuse to sit on your ass.
The world runs on individuals pursuing their self interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a, from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way.
~ Milton Friedman
-
Is that thing named Pat by any chance? At one point it described not caring about finding a girlfriend. Mentally ill homo or mentally ill trans? :mental:
Redundantly redundant much? :cheers1: :hi5:
-
Tue Aug 26, 2014, 10:04 PM
Puzzledtraveller (4,745 posts)
Should people who are able to work, have to work?
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
My knowledge of Marx is cursory at best but the above statement heralded by Marx but not attributed to him appears to be popular among many self identified Marxist. I wanted to know more about what Marx thought about the idea and found the following. My problem with the idea has always been that people should not have to work if they do not want to, it's that simple, for me. So I am struggling to understand why we would ever support such a system, at least the portion of "each according to his ability". As Marx himself appeared to understand that this would be applicable at some point in time in which work isn't the four letter word it is now to many. That being physical drudgery. I don't know about you but I do not see a time in the near future when work will not be physical, demanding, demeaning, repetitive and joyless as it can be to so many.
OH my Gawd. I can't believe y'all are that lazy and selfish. Anyway, lazy useless dolt, I don't care if you don't work but don't you expect any type of assistance from people that do work. Sweet Jesus you are worthless! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
-
I wonder what her DU name is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
What a disgusting piece of crap. So many good hard working people die every day. Why do people like that continue wasting their lives? Why does life let them exist? Life is so cruel. :rant:
-
Why do people like that continue wasting their lives? Why does life let them exist? Life is so cruel. :rant:
Because, as a greater society, we allow this type of mediocrity to flourish because we aren't allowed to "judge" people and we've allowed the vermin to control social issues in the name of "more important things".
-
Because, as a greater society, we allow this type of mediocrity to flourish because we aren't allowed to "judge" people and we've allowed the vermin to control social issues in the name of "more important things".
everything has it's place. As a foil to the fine and upstanding members of society, it is unfortunate but necessary that we maintain worthless mounds of life's failures as a lesson on not what to become.
-
What a disgusting piece of crap. So many good hard working people die every day. Why do people like that continue wasting their lives? Why does life let them exist? Life is so cruel. :rant:
I don't want kids.. well what guy would want to screw you enough to get one? :whatever:
I don't want to get fired.. Who would hire you in the first place?. :banghead:
Banned from working at Hot Topic.. .Can't imagine , oh fat one with silver fangs... :loser:
Don't wanna to work retail There are many occupations besides retail, you moron!! :rant:
**** YOU!! Nice language skills dipshit!! :thatsright:
-
DUmmies make great employees. Just ask the convenient store manager that hired DUmmy Amber or the organization that hired DUmmy walldude.
-
Milady, you just summed things up rather nicely. H5.
-
I wonder what her DU name is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
The person in the video has a Youtube account. She has a lot of videos of herself and goes by Monica Punk.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MsLoveLoveLove1231
Sounds like a typical DUmmie. Some comments are really idiotic.
hePinkhamsterino1 month ago
Despite her flaws, I'd rather spend time with this mellow lady than the circle of arrogant ****s commenting on this video. 
NaziPunks****Off4 months ago
Gotta love the keyboard jockeys slagging off someone who's obviously disabled. Good going, guys. Do it for 'Murica!
I have seen disabled people who do more work than this one.
-
Star Member BainsBane (28,698 posts)
22. We already have that. It's called capitalism
Only it's only a few who are supported by the many. But of course the perpetually self-entitled believe they should be able to sit back while the peons labor to support them. No wonder some speak so favorably of Rand Paul. He supports the idea that the rich should pay not taxes, have no regulation, and be entirely untethered in their exploitation of labor.
I have seen right-wingers joke about shit like this. but I have never encountered people who actually strove to do and be absolutely nothing.
A star player for team "kollectivist klam", rambling about "the perpetually self-entitled"...it doesn't get much richer than that.
CMD
-
I think there's a lot of people out there, including myself, who don't want to do the abusive and degrading work that comes with unlivable wage jobs.
In order to provide the goods and services that society needs and demands, someone is going to have to get out there and work, and some of that work is going to be menial and tedious. Until we create an army of self-replicating robots hat operate on a free and unlimited power source, I don't see any way around it.
Of course if you want to live out in the woods like a hermit, living off the land gathering grubs and roots to eat and sheltering in a mud hut you made, fine. I say go for it. May you never have to work again.
But if you're expecting me to shoulder the load, working and paying for those goods and services for you to enjoy while you sit and contemplate your navel fuzz, you're going to be disappointed.
And what is "degrading" work anyway, unless you're blowing people in restrooms for spare change? I've never done any kind of manual labor I considered degrading. I might not have liked it, but it was honest work. I never felt myself "too good" to do a job no matter how dirty or tiring it was.
-
everything has it's place. As a foil to the fine and upstanding members of society, it is unfortunate but necessary that we maintain worthless mounds of life's failures as a lesson on not what to become.
Fine, but I'd rather not pay them.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_iW9DzG-g0
I have an idea you fat worthless blob of pierced organic waste matter... how about we cut off your welfare? You don't want to work? Fine! Not a problem. YOU CAN JUST STARVE!!!!
The day will be coming when the welfare does end and it may be coming sooner than anyone thinks. I, for one, will be more than happy to fill your fat worthless ass full of lead when you, hungry beyond belief, come to steal my dogs dinner so you can stuff your starving pie hole. After that, I won't have to worry about feeding my dogs for about a year or so... judging by your video. My doggies will eat anything up to and including your lard laden dead carcass when they get hungry.
-
I have an idea you fat worthless blob of pierced organic waste matter... how about we cut off your welfare? You don't want to work? Fine! Not a problem. YOU CAN JUST STARVE!!!!
The day will be coming when the welfare does end and it may be coming sooner than anyone thinks. I, for one, will be more than happy to fill your fat worthless ass full of lead when you, hungry beyond belief, come to steal my dogs dinner so you can stuff your starving pie hole. After that, I won't have to worry about feeding my dogs for about a year or so... judging by your video. My doggies will eat anything up to and including your lard laden dead carcass when they get hungry.
I want to know what her disability is?? is she wearing a shirt?? I have a better idea..
1. Go see some doctors, psychiatrist, a family practitioner, and a nutritionist.
2. Stop feeling sorry for yourself!!! Go to a Planet fitness and get some of the weight down!!(Take your mom with you!!)
3.Stop looking down on those people who do have low paying jobs, at least they get off their ass and contribute to society, and not expect society to shoulder a financial burden.
4. Oh you want children. All women have some sort of maternal yearnings(if you will), there is nobody out there who wants to screw a woman who doesn't give a shit about herself or life.
5. If I had this attitude towards life, I would be heading to Bedlam!!
-
I want to know what her disability is?? is she wearing a shirt?? I have a better idea..
1. Go see some doctors, psychiatrist, a family practitioner, and a nutritionist.
2. Stop feeling sorry for yourself!!! Go to a Planet fitness and get some of the weight down!!(Take your mom with you!!)
3.Stop looking down on those people who do have low paying jobs, at least they get off their ass and contribute to society, and not expect society to shoulder a financial burden.
4. Oh you want children. All women have some sort of maternal yearnings(if you will), there is nobody out there who wants to screw a woman who doesn't give a shit about herself or life.
5. If I had this attitude towards life, I would be heading to Bedlam!!
Entitlement laziness. Probably born in a generational welfare family. Looks like she spends her day grazing. Got enough money to dye her head mop red, get her lips pierced (I would think that would get in the way of her grazing), got an internet connection and the device to use it.
In short she is nothing more than a complete useless blob of adipose tissue living off the sweat of working folks.
-
I have an idea you fat worthless blob of pierced organic waste matter... how about we cut off your welfare? You don't want to work? Fine! Not a problem. YOU CAN JUST STARVE!!!!
The day will be coming when the welfare does end and it may be coming sooner than anyone thinks. I, for one, will be more than happy to fill your fat worthless ass full of lead when you, hungry beyond belief, come to steal my dogs dinner so you can stuff your starving pie hole. After that, I won't have to worry about feeding my dogs for about a year or so... judging by your video. My doggies will eat anything up to and including your lard laden dead carcass when they get hungry.
Don't be cruel to animals...err...your dogs.
What could your dogs possibly do to deserve...that?
:tongue:
CMD
-
Mother was reading some kind of thing that told of some of the first American settlements up and down the East coast in the early 1600 and found something interesting.
Some of the settlements decided to go with the collective society. All worked for the community to build, farm, and protect society. To each their ability and all receive the bounty from all.
Human nature, some refused to hoe the corn fields as they had a bad back, others refused to learn a trade as they claimed to be Doctors and Lawyers.
Ultimate decision that led to survival back then when was when the powers that be up ended this community crap and informed the residents that no more socialism, they had so many acres of land each and it was up to them to grow their own food, to clear their own land, raise their own live stock, spin their own wool for clothing ----themselves.
Help came from the community's and Churches but this had to be paid back to them.
Widows with children were cared for but their children on their death had to return to the community all their mother owned, be it land or just a bed pot or 2 dishes and one chair.
Some how we the fruit of the loin of these people went on and survived to today, when we are looking back with technology and wondering how the heck our family our DNA came to this time
-
Mother was reading some kind of thing that told of some of the first American settlements up and down the East coast in the early 1600 and found something interesting.
Some of the settlements decided to go with the collective society. All worked for the community to build, farm, and protect society. To each their ability and all receive the bounty from all.
Human nature, some refused to hoe the corn fields as they had a bad back, others refused to learn a trade as they claimed to be Doctors and Lawyers.
Ultimate decision that led to survival back then when was when the powers that be up ended this community crap and informed the residents that no more socialism, they had so many acres of land each and it was up to them to grow their own food, to clear their own land, raise their own live stock, spin their own wool for clothing ----themselves.
Help came from the community's and Churches but this had to be paid back to them.
Widows with children were cared for but their children on their death had to return to the community all their mother owned, be it land or just a bed pot or 2 dishes and one chair.
Some how we the fruit of the loin of these people went on and survived to today, when we are looking back with technology and wondering how the heck our family our DNA came to this time
I think over the years, society has made it too easy, and we are too far ahead of ourselves to go back.
-
I think over the years, society has made it too easy, and we are too far ahead of ourselves to go back.
I watched a program called "Secrets Of The Manor House".
It was about the land ownership of the British Aristocracy and the division of the classes. Most of the people were dependent on their lords and masters for their jobs or livelihoods.
It didn't phase out until the early 1900's. It seems that what brought about
the change was modern technology and getting away from economics based on agriculture.
Vesta, your story reminds me of William Bradford's description of socialism practiced by the Pilgrims. It's written in Bradford's journal called "Of Plymouth Plantation".
-
I have an idea you fat worthless blob of pierced organic waste matter... how about we cut off your welfare? You don't want to work? Fine! Not a problem. YOU CAN JUST STARVE!!!!
The day will be coming when the welfare does end and it may be coming sooner than anyone thinks. I, for one, will be more than happy to fill your fat worthless ass full of lead when you, hungry beyond belief, come to steal my dogs dinner so you can stuff your starving pie hole. After that, I won't have to worry about feeding my dogs for about a year or so... judging by your video. My doggies will eat anything up to and including your lard laden dead carcass when they get hungry.
She has a lot of videos and one of them calls 911 because people are mean to her. :mental:
-
Retroactive, even.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRT0g7lZtHE
Clearly disturbed. :mental: