The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Miss Mia on July 08, 2008, 01:47:45 PM
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:39 PM
Original message (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3581115)
The price of gas is too high. Why doesn't the government stabilize the price for us?
Most people are really feeling the pinch of gas prices at the pump. Wouldn't it make sense for the government to lower the price? It could be done in several ways.
First, the government could just make it illegal to sell gas for more than $3.00 per gallon.
Second, the gas companies could sell for whatever price they want, but we could get a rebate check for $1.00 or $2.00 for every gallon of gas we buy. A variation on that would be to allow the subsidy but make is so only poor and middle class folks would qualify for the rebate.
There are other ways to lower the price that I'm willing to hear.
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. But that would require **REGULATION**!!
AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH! Govt regulators actually regulating! HORROR OF HORRERS!
alyce douglas Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. stabilize the price for us??
they are making money off us, and those oil companies CEO's are rolling in it now. Cheney's wet dream has come true.
jpcrecom (87 posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. ways to reduce gas prices
1. Increase supply
2. Reduce demand
increasing supply looks not to be an option. Either because the E&P companies don't want to get more in order to keep the price high, or (more likely) because the planet is seriously depleted of oil and the supply either isn't there or it's just cost prohibitive to get to.
Reducing demand is the only option. Putting government controls on prices would only increase demand (since it would be cheaper for everyone). People need to change behaviors. Making it cheaper for people to buy gas will not only not address the underlying issues, but actually make them worse.
We need to reduce the demand for oil by investing in other energy sources. Whether they be wind, sun, water, or even (maybe, I'd have to look into it more) nuclear.
dmesg (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Option 3: Decrease liquidity
Supply is up and demand is actually down from this time last year. The problem is liquidity and fluidity: instead of 4 transactions between me and the oil well this time last year, there's currently an average of 12.
NickB79 (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Incorrect: Demand in the US is declining, but GLOBAL demand is still rising
http://omrpublic.iea.org /
"Global oil product demand is expected to average 86.8 mb/d in 2008, 80 kb/d below last month’s estimate, following the reduction of price subsidies in several non-OECD countries. Global growth is cut even more steeply by 230 kb/d to +0.9% or +800 kb/d when historical upward revisions to 2006 and 2007 data are factored in.
Global oil supply rebounded by 490 kb/d in May to average 86.6 mb/d, lifted by higher OPEC crude supply. The rise however comes after extensive downward revisions to 1Q08 non-OPEC production and lower biofuels and NGLs for the rest of this year. Despite this, a recovery in non-OPEC output is forecast for the second half of 2008."
So, global demand still exceeds global production by 200,000 barrels per day, AND global demand is expected to INCREASE by 800,000 per day in 2008, further increasing the gap between supply and demand. And we all know what happens when demand exceeds supply of a non-fungible good.
dmesg (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Fair enough, but don't ignore transaction weight
If you have to point a single finger here -- particularly in a direction where the government can actually do some good -- point at the tripling of the number of transactions from well to pump.
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. Your "first" shows a lack of understanding of basic economics
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 01:11 PM by scheming daemons
Price controls always produce the exact OPPOSITE effect of their stated intent.
By mandating a price of $3.00 or less, many gas stations will be forced to get out of the business of providing gas....since doing so would be a net loss to them. It would cost them more to buy the gas than they could get in return.
As more and more stations go out of business, gasoline would become more scarce in this country, as the providers would take their business to other countries where they could sell at a profit.
This scarcity would create a "black market" for gasoline in this country in which the price was MORE than $3.00.... much more... because of the basic laws of supply and demand. The real price to CONSUMERS would be higher.
This is the worst part of socialism..... price fixing. It always results in the exact opposite of the desired results.
The government needs to get OUT of the business of price controls in EVERY area. The American public will, through their choices, either cause the price to go down (by having less demand) or alternative forms of energy to become more viable (when their costs are less than the costs of gasoline).
Republicans are wrong about a lot of stuff..... but the laws of supply and demand know no political party. They are undeniable.
To sum up:
Price fixing limits supply...which leads to expensive black markets and eventually HIGHER prices.
Please...please....please... take a basic Economics course. Lack of understanding of basic economics is why so many Hillary supporters were in favor of the stupid "gas tax holiday".
We do ourselves no favors when we work to restrict the free movement of goods and services.
There are only TWO ways to lower gas prices:
1. Increase supply
2. Reduce demand
That's it. There are no other solutions. The Republicans are focusing on #1 ("drill, drill, drill") and the Democrats are focusing on #2 ("explore alternative fuels, conserve more").
The Republicans' priority increases green house emissions, speeds up global warming, and delays getting this country onward to the next generation in energy.
The Democrats' priority results in a cleaner environment, slows global warming, and accelerates getting this country to the next generation in energy.
jpcrecom (87 posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. How dare you!
Edited on Tue Jul-08-08 01:14 PM by jpcrecom
Use my same answer (#5) but do so better than me. That's not very nice.
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Congress controls the money. The DEMOCRAT controlled Congress.
What the **** does Cheney have to do with this? :mental:
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Link?
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Ask Dick Turbin why his state has 80 cents a gallon tax on gas but beleives that the people that bring the gasoline to the consumer making 8 cents/gallon are robber barons?
Ask why the state of California will make $5.3 billion on gas this year and only made $2.4 billion in 2007?
Price of oil in January 2007 $43/bbl now it is over $140/bbl. What party was in control of congress during those 18 months?
The government, the democrat controlled government, is stabilizing the price. The liberals just want that stable price at $8/gallon.
Point number 256,387,951 why they are called DUmmies.
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AND the tax on gasoline in Illinois is based on the SELLING PRICE of the gas, not on a per/gallon basis.
The higher the selling price, the greater the tax grab by Gov. Bagoshit and the Daley machine.
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AND the tax on gasoline in Illinois is based on the SELLING PRICE of the gas, not on a per/gallon basis.
The higher the selling price, the greater the tax grab by Gov. Bagoshit and the Daley machine.
*sighs* Thanks for the warning. Guess I'll be driving to the other side of the mississippi to get my gas then.
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Link?
Sorry. :( I totally bungled that up, I fixed it now.
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
Details, . . . details . . . :mental:
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
Toll Roads. :censored: :censored: :censored:
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
God forbid they actually consider PRIORITIZING all of that waste fraud and abuse of the taxpayers dollar they buy our votes with. Actually live by a BUDGET or something? :hammer:
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
Toll Roads. :censored: :censored: :censored:
yeah, i know.... our esteemed governor Queen Christine Gregoire, thinks this is a peachy idea. so is a new gas tax...
she has screwed it up so badly, but since all she's ever done is work for the govt, she really has no idea how bad it is out here. poor idiot.
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
Toll Roads. :censored: :censored: :censored:
yeah, i know.... our esteemed governor Queen Christine Gregoire, thinks this is a peachy idea. so is a new gas tax...
she has screwed it up so badly, but since all she's ever done is work for the govt, she really has no idea how bad it is out here. poor idiot.
Why do you think I only VISIT my family in the People's Republic of Washington? Believe it or not, I miss being able to sail the Puget Sound, but not so badly that I'd ever move back.
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Ask Dick Turbin why his state has 80 cents a gallon tax on gas but beleives that the people that bring the gasoline to the consumer making 8 cents/gallon are robber barons?
Ask why the state of California will make $5.3 billion on gas this year and only made $2.4 billion in 2007?
Price of oil in January 2007 $43/bbl now it is over $140/bbl. What party was in control of congress during those 18 months?
The government, the democrat controlled government, is stabilizing the price. The liberals just want that stable price at $8/gallon.
Point number 256,387,951 why they are called DUmmies.
i think they believe that the public doesnt know who is who... the media keeps constantly calling it "Republican" as in the OP article. yet, most people know who Pelosi and Reid are. they know Bush hasnt gotten the Congress to do one damn thing (thank God) that was good for the country - not that he hasnt tried. but the Dem Congress has basically blocked all the good stuff, and thrown temper tantrums when the hippie museum doesnt get made in upstate NY...
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
Still isn't too bad of a subsidy.
$.80 a liter comes out to what? about $3.20 ~ $3.50 a gallon?
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Obviously the OP doesn't remember this (probably too young or too many dead brain cells):
(http://www.treehugger.com/line_at_a_gas_station_1979.jpg)
My dad owned a gas station back then -- I was the lucky guy who got check gas gauges and put the "last car" sign on the last car. Good thing I had a 90+ lb German Shepherd/Wolf mix as my personal bodyguard. People would get truly pissed.
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
That's about 3.20 a gallon. Also, you have to take into account their cost of living over there. Everything is relative. The Venezuelans pay about 12 cents a gallon (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/). Sounds great right? Well, not when you live on a dollar a day.
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
Still isn't too bad of a subsidy.
$.80 a liter comes out to what? about $3.20 ~ $3.50 a gallon?
but our govt doesnt give each of us money to go buy gas... what would gas actually cost there without the subsidy?
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
That's about 3.20 a gallon. Also, you have to take into account their cost of living over there. Everything is relative. The Venezuelans pay about 12 cents a gallon (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/). Sounds great right? Well, not when you live on a dollar a day.
It was about $1.15 US a liter in Jamaica a few weeks ago. But they have an island economy.
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Obviously the OP doesn't remember this (probably too young or too many dead brain cells):
(http://www.treehugger.com/line_at_a_gas_station_1979.jpg)
My dad owned a gas station back then -- I was the lucky guy who got check gas gauges and put the "last car" sign on the last car. Good thing I had a 90+ lb German Shepherd/Wolf mix as my personal bodyguard. People would get truly pissed.
I rememeber seeing a picture in the local paper when I was a kid and there was a gas station owner filling a cars tank up and in the belt band was one of these ,
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7056/msautomagblksvii7.jpg)
A .44 Magnum Automag. It was there to keep people from driving off or robbing the place. These DUmmies either forget or don't care but i think Nixon tried to freeze prices back in the 70's and it didn't work so well then either.
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Goes right to the kernal of the liberal mind/teenager/leech mentality.
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Houses are too expensive. Why doesn't that ****ing shrub buy me a McMansion?
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The USSR stabilized the price of potatoes and bread..............you just couldn't find a place to buy them.
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Ask Dick Turbin why his state has 80 cents a gallon tax on gas but beleives that the people that bring the gasoline to the consumer making 8 cents/gallon are robber barons?
Ask why the state of California will make $5.3 billion on gas this year and only made $2.4 billion in 2007?
Price of oil in January 2007 $43/bbl now it is over $140/bbl. What party was in control of congress during those 18 months?
The government, the democrat controlled government, is stabilizing the price. The liberals just want that stable price at $8/gallon.
Point number 256,387,951 why they are called DUmmies.
i think they believe that the public doesnt know who is who... the media keeps constantly calling it "Republican" as in the OP article. yet, most people know who Pelosi and Reid are. they know Bush hasnt gotten the Congress to do one damn thing (thank God) that was good for the country - not that he hasnt tried. but the Dem Congress has basically blocked all the good stuff, and thrown temper tantrums when the hippie museum doesnt get made in upstate NY...
Trust me, Lauri, this is one resident of Upstate NY that's very glad that that museum wasn't built.
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um, so... let me just interject this for the DUmmies..
our govt is LOSING money since gas prices went up. people stopped driving as much and the govts revenue maker (gasoline) went down.
so what are they doing? proposing toll charges all over the country. people cannot escape paying tolls, even if they drive very littlle. i use the bridges over the water here quite a lot, so they know they have us.
they arent going to lose even more tax dollars by lowering gas - its not in their best interest.
Toll Roads. :censored: :censored: :censored:
I'm a firm believer in Troll Roads. :lmao:
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Obviously the OP doesn't remember this (probably too young or too many dead brain cells):
(http://www.treehugger.com/line_at_a_gas_station_1979.jpg)
My dad owned a gas station back then -- I was the lucky guy who got check gas gauges and put the "last car" sign on the last car. Good thing I had a 90+ lb German Shepherd/Wolf mix as my personal bodyguard. People would get truly pissed.
Oh yeah, I remember quite well. I was alotted 60% of what I had used the year before for my business. I had twice the equipment, twice the hired help and twice the work lined up to operate on almost half the fuel. ....but 10 cent a gallon over market price would get you all the fuel you wanted.
As a side note: Off road diesel fuel in oct. of 1973 was 15.9 cent a gallon. By the time Carter left office in jan. '81 it had been up to $1.39.9. The lowest I remember it being since then was around 45.9 in the late 80's.
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The price of gas is too high. Why doesn't the government stabilize the price for us?
Because that's not their job.
Really DUmmies...this is easy stuff here...why are you making it so darn hard?
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
That's about 3.20 a gallon. Also, you have to take into account their cost of living over there. Everything is relative. The Venezuelans pay about 12 cents a gallon (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/). Sounds great right? Well, not when you live on a dollar a day.
Great point, the other thing is that a subsidy does not make the gas cost less, it just shifts the "Who is paying for it" part around. Our government could subsidized gas too, of course that would mean adding a national sales tax or kicking up the marginal income tax rates to pay for the subsidy...so everyone that pays taxes now would be paying even more for their own gas in the end.
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Ask Dick Turbin why his state has 80 cents a gallon tax on gas but beleives that the people that bring the gasoline to the consumer making 8 cents/gallon are robber barons?
Ask why the state of California will make $5.3 billion on gas this year and only made $2.4 billion in 2007?
Price of oil in January 2007 $43/bbl now it is over $140/bbl. What party was in control of congress during those 18 months?
The government, the democrat controlled government, is stabilizing the price. The liberals just want that stable price at $8/gallon.
Point number 256,387,951 why they are called DUmmies.
i think they believe that the public doesnt know who is who... the media keeps constantly calling it "Republican" as in the OP article. yet, most people know who Pelosi and Reid are. they know Bush hasnt gotten the Congress to do one damn thing (thank God) that was good for the country - not that he hasnt tried. but the Dem Congress has basically blocked all the good stuff, and thrown temper tantrums when the hippie museum doesnt get made in upstate NY...
Trust me, Lauri, this is one resident of Upstate NY that's very glad that that museum wasn't built.
the fact that it was even suggested, with a million dollar price tag (from the Hilary camp no less!) - astonishes most of us.
but we have issues in every state like this; we have infrastructure in need of being shored up - but our budgets get spent on Jesus Art in a glass full of pee... or metal art in downtown, or something equally stupid. we have a dam in our little town that is number one in the entire state for failure. instead of fixing that, apparently it was more important to spend 15 million on a condo for bums downtown to get them off the streets.
oh, and they had to have had SIX DUIs before they could land in the new digs.. :banghead:
and the dam sits waiting ... while we have record snowfall and heat... *sigh*
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The only way to stabilize the price of gas under real-world global market conditions is to force an aggregate planet-wide decline in the use of it, which has some unfortunate second and third order effects such as global economic collapse.
i was hearing today that gas in india costs only 80 cents a liter.. and that had gone up. it used to be less.
why? cause their govt subsidized it to the populace and they want to stop doing that. China and another country want to stop subsidizing their populace as well and the real price of gas is being shown to all of them. does this have an impact on prices globally?
That's about 3.20 a gallon. Also, you have to take into account their cost of living over there. Everything is relative. The Venezuelans pay about 12 cents a gallon (http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/). Sounds great right? Well, not when you live on a dollar a day.
Great point, the other thing is that a subsidy does not make the gas cost less, it just shifts the "Who is paying for it" part around. Our government could subsidized gas too, of course that would mean adding a national sales tax or kicking up the marginal income tax rates to pay for the subsidy...so everyone that pays taxes now would be paying even more for their own gas in the end.
hey, maybe our idiots in Congress will try a gas subsidy next? :whatever:
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hey, maybe our idiots in Congress will try a gas subsidy next? :whatever:
Oh, surely they would never do anything so transparently self-serving and economically pointless? :sarcasm:
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angrycarpenter (1000+ posts) Thu Jul-03-08 09:41 PM
Original message
Does anyone here want the gov. to babysit them?
AngryAmish (1000+ posts)
Tue Jul-08-08 12:39 PM
Original message
The price of gas is too high. Why doesn't the government stabilize the price for us?
heh
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hey, maybe our idiots in Congress will try a gas subsidy next? :whatever:
Oh, surely they would never do anything so transparently self-serving and economically pointless? :sarcasm:
ya know, once they put Jesus in a glass of pee and called it 'art' .. i figure all bets are off. they are selling this Global Warming scare (TNO anyone?) to a lot of chuckleheads who are buying it hook line and sinker.. im not sure there is a 'bottom' to their stupidity.
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Second, the gas companies could sell for whatever price they want, but we could get a rebate check for $1.00 or $2.00 for every gallon of gas we buy.
So gas is now $8.00 per gallon and we get $1.00 back per gallon? Great.
By the way, who issues the rebate? Who tracks the gallons used? If I drive a Prius do I get $1.25?