The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: bijou on July 06, 2008, 04:38:42 AM
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Sunday brunch at a dim sum restaurant in Seattle with the local polyamory group. I'm sitting between two men. One has a T-shirt that reads 'Two's Company'. The other's wearing the slogan 'Screw Abstinence'. Welcome to the neighbourhood 'sex-positive' community, a club where anything goes, just so long as it's between consenting adults and latex is involved.
They're a friendly bunch (well, I guess you'd have to be. It doesn't do to be stand-offish and polyamorous). There is E, who has known she was polyamorous since she was 18; then J, who first discussed this kind of lifestyle with his wife back in 1962 (they're still together); and a woman who describes herself as temple priestess, sex educator and counsellor, which must keep her busy.
Guest of honour is Jenny Block, America's poster girl for open marriage. Block is a 38-year- old writer who has flown in from Dallas where she lives in one of the outlying suburbs with her husband Christopher, an IT consultant, and their nine-year-old daughter Emily.
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Briefly, Jenny has a sexual relationship with both Christopher and Jemma - though her husband and her girlfriend don't sleep with each other. Christopher, should he choose, could sleep with anyone he fancies (so long as it's not in the neighbourhood; they have a strict 'not in town' rule). So could Jemma, although she says she doesn't want to. Jenny used to hook up with other people, men and women, she met on work trips and writer retreats, but at the moment she's content with just the two of them. In poly-speak this means she's in a 'vee' relationship (in which one person has two lovers who aren't involved with each other) as oppose to a 'triad' or a 'quad' which sound even more exciting, or exhausting, depending on your point of view.
She's just written a book about these unusual (although, according to Jenny, not that unusual) domestic arrangements.
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Later, one of the men from the group gives me a lift back into the city. He's in his sixties and he wistfully tells me that many of his lovers have died or drifted away. 'Although,' he says, 'my wife and I have realised that there is some benefit to getting older. It turns out there is one thing better than sex ... and that's grandchildren.' And I can't help but think, after a weekend exploring the personal intricacies of another person's marriage - hurrah to that.
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http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,2288582,00.html
I hope for Emily's sake that the book has died a death by the time she's a teenager.
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Jenny was three years into her marriage to Christopher when she turned over in bed one night and said to her husband something along the lines of, 'How would it be if we slept with other people?' For a long time she'd been unhappy with the physical side of things. Everything else was tickety boo, she tells me: she loved Christopher, she loved her daughter, she simply wasn't getting laid enough. 'I wanted to feel as if I could breathe,' she says now. 'That if I was attracted to someone that our relationship could go to that next level. That it would be allowed.'
In her twenties she'd enjoyed flings with women, a fact that she'd told Christopher about before they were married. But here she was, lying next to her husband, and wondering if a Saturday-morning tumble once a month was enough for her. And if it wasn't, did it mean the end of her marriage? Unlike many relationships which suffer from sexual torpor, especially after having children, she wasn't willing to lie back and go to sleep.
However, the fact that she craved sex made her think she might be 'a freak' in some way. 'I didn't think other women had a high sex drive or if they did they weren't allowed to talk about it. Bring it up with women and you get either, "Don't be silly" or, "I wish my husband would leave me alone".'
Jenny's proposal may not have come as a complete surprise to her husband. The couple had survived Jenny's affair with another woman the year before. ('The most exhausting six months of my life. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, I was totally paranoid.') Sex, or, rather, the lack of it, and Christopher's disinclination to initiate it, had long been a source of arguments. 'It didn't have the same importance to him. I would feel either ignored or bummed out by it. That he didn't want or love me any more,' she recalls.
For some men the idea of an open marriage might have been a fantasy come true. I'm not so sure about Christopher. He remains a rather faceless character in the book. She and Jemma nickname him 'the egoless man' which is supposed to be a compliment but I'm not so sure. I'm torn between thinking, 'poor bloke, all he wants is a quiet night in' and 'for God's sake, try a bit harder!' However, his wife is warmer about him in person than she is in print. She describes him with palpable affection and, whatever anyone thinks of their marriage, it seems he adores her.
If your husband said: Give it up, or get out, what would you do?
'I don't think I'm a monogamous person. Would I attempt it because I want to be with my husband? Yes. Would it work? I don't know.'
Why get married in the first place? Did she wonder if it would suit her or not?
'Well, in the first place I didn't know this was going to happen. Secondly, I really like being with someone who says he will stick around, regardless of how kooky I am. It's easier to navigate the world as a couple. I expect to grow old with him.'
She's plainly worked out an arrangement that works for her, but whether it's in the best interests of Christopher and Jemma is hard to know without meeting them (they agreed to the book but declined to do any interviews). Jenny says she's bisexual but I do wonder if she is a lesbian who realised after she married and had a child that she prefers sex with women but is not willing to give up the conveniences that come with a heterosexual lifestyle. Reading between the lines, is she having sex with Jemma and simply living with Christopher?
Jenny, you ignorant slut. :whatever:
Whatever happened to making things work? I suspect there is much more to her story than what she puts in the book.
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Here is the subject of the article "Jenny Block". She is the one on the left. She sure looks like a desperate housewife to me.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Foam_Kitty/008dal-thumb.jpg)
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Here is the subject of the article "Jenny Block". She is the one on the left. She sure looks like a desperate housewife to me.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Foam_Kitty/008dal-thumb.jpg)
No, she looks like a dude in drag.... with a huge overbite.
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so, there is this new show on called... Swingtown. anybody else watching it? :uhsure:
my husband thought it was going to be just about the 70s and how liberal everyone was.. now its turning into a morality tale, with the husband being all for swapping spouses, then his wife starts getting ideas about freedom of speech and such.
the actors are pretty good... or i am so bored with everything else on tv, that it looks ok :-)
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^yes, I'm watching it too. I missed last week though.
I must admit, the whole "swinging" part is secondary to me. I just wanted to see the old clothes/cars/etc...and hear the old music. Reminds me of growing up.
The uptight old neighbor is hilarious though!!!
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Here is the subject of the article "Jenny Block". She is the one on the left. She sure looks like a desperate housewife to me.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Foam_Kitty/008dal-thumb.jpg)
I think her face is melting.
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She's not as think as you drunk she is.
:cheersmate:
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I think the same of him as I do of her...which isn't much.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
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Amen!
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H5 Bri. I agree as well.
jty - I really don't know what to think about this husband. It's incredibly hard to say having only heard her side.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
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H5 Bri. I agree as well.
jty - I really don't know what to think about this husband. It's incredibly hard to say having only heard her side.
Again, I believe that is because it is hard for women to understand that there are some men who reject their wives regularly or are disinterested that it makes her story unbelievable. It's a very hurtful thing and women are prone to hide such a thing because it seems so extraordinary to them. I'm not saying this is her in particular, but I don't think saying it doesn't happen and not understanding how it affects a woman's self-esteem is a really productive approach either.
From what I've read about her, there is a certain bravado to her story that makes it seem less likely she was hurting from it, but who knows...sometimes people learn to mask their original feeligs over time that its hard to say how that affected her originally and perhaps she is now justifying something that initially was very hurtful to her--shrug--who knows. Personally, I have a harder time understanding a man(or woman) for whom this is an ok arrangement as long as everything else remains status quo. I could never allow someone I love to have such an arrangement. My first decision would be to try and make myself more compatible in that way before telling my loved one, sure, go f*ck your best friend.
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^totally agree. I think this woman is just a closeted lesbian or bi-sexual. She said she had a same-sex affair early in the marriage that she hid before they "opened" their marriage.
If the husband were truly cold and not interested at all in sex, it could be for a number of reasons. Any of which deserve to be aired and worked on IMO. But what if he felt like she was really more turned on by women and he just gave up? That could be the case with this woman.
I certainly don't think that problems in the bedroom between husband and wife are solved by adding a third party!!!! That's just counter-productive and I think she's justified it as some post-feminst (who's married to an 'evolved' :whatever: man) clap trap.
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I'm not really sure what to think of the husband to be honest, because I lack the pertient information.
Was he suffering from a decreased sex drive due to medical issues? Not necessarily illness either; a new medication, major stress, even just getting old could do that.
Maybe he didn't become disinterested in sex, but only in sex with her. I know that if I were to catch my (future) wife sleeping around, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in being intimate with her EVER again.
But assuming he just plain lost interest in sex... well, as to whether he has a responsibility to "honor that portion of his marriage," that can really only be decided between the people involved. All I would say is that for me personally, that door would have to swing both ways - either both partners have that responsibility, or neither do. Wifey can't expect Hubby to get hot and bothered when she wants him to, but then pull the "I have a headache" routine when she's disinterested.
As far as their arrangement, it sounds like he's able to get some on the side as well. If it weren't for that, all I'd feel for him is pity; pity for another man who falls into the BS "I exist only to please the woman (women) in my life" mindset. Though it sounds like an equitable arrangement, and if they're all happy about it, good for them. I have zero interest in judging him as a husband or a man, being as I don't buy into that mindset either and consequently couldn't care less if some man isn't making his wife happy; nobody can ever be responsible for another person's happiness, it is impossible to ensure such and any attempt to do so only ensures misery for all parties involved.
I am sort of concerned for the kid(s) in such a situation, I have to admit, although assuming that nothing goes on around children, such an arrangement is infinitely preferable to Mom and Dad divorcing and Mom shacking up with her girlfriend (or more likely kicking Dad out and moving girlfriend in). At least this way both parents are still in their child(ren)'s life.
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^yes, I'm watching it too. I missed last week though.
I must admit, the whole "swinging" part is secondary to me. I just wanted to see the old clothes/cars/etc...and hear the old music. Reminds me of growing up.
The uptight old neighbor is hilarious though!!!
last week janet had a pot brownie... i think trina is interesting, but also kind of a bitch.
susan and bruce have incredible speaking voices; dont know why i notice it, but i do.. i think the morality tale inside of the story is going to be pretty interesting. i do love the music and the outfits. the fondue night was great... :-)
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
interesting question... and i think if both people in the relationship are ok with it (and lets face it, lots of people do this willingly and have for millenia) then everyone else should butt out.
it wouldnt work for me.. i'd get jealous as all hell and kill some woman if she touched my husband.. but that's just me. :cheerleader:
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Does anyone know a couple, personally and not just by reputation, where an 'open marriage' has actually worked?
That once a month thing is a huge red flare that something is seriously wrong and isnt likely to be fixed without a lot of serious work. A few new 'friends with benefits' (sometimes called **** buddies) wont fix that problem.
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Does anyone know a couple, personally and not just by reputation, where an 'open marriage' has actually worked?
No. Every one of the open or plural relationships/"marriages" involved ultimately crashed and burned, IMHO because there was always a disparity in what the assorted partners wanted out of it that eventually flew the whole thing into a mountain.
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
interesting question... and i think if both people in the relationship are ok with it (and lets face it, lots of people do this willingly and have for millenia) then everyone else should butt out.
it wouldnt work for me.. i'd get jealous as all hell and kill some woman if she touched my husband.. but that's just me. :cheerleader:
See, I think more like you do. Its done with the full knowledge and consent of BOTH individuals so the name throwing makes no sense and as I said if someone goes there, then it would seem proper to scrutinize BOTH parts of the relationship. However, I'm not one who really cares. How people make their marriages work isn't my concern.
I'm with you though. If I'm with someone, I don't like to share. LOL.
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
Well, if Matthew McConawhateverhisname decides to knock on my door, I told my husband I would be packing a bag for the weekend and not to wait up for me.
To which he replied, "if Jessica Alba knocks on the door, I'm stepping over you! Not even taking the time to pack a bag". :lmao: :evillaugh:
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
Well, if Matthew McConawhateverhisname decides to knock on my door, I told my husband I would be packing a bag for the weekend and not to wait up for me.
To which he replied, "if Jessica Alba knocks on the door, I'm stepping over you! Not even taking the time to pack a bag". :lmao: :evillaugh:
He has good taste. :)
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Does anyone know a couple, personally and not just by reputation, where an 'open marriage' has actually worked?
That once a month thing is a huge red flare that something is seriously wrong and isnt likely to be fixed without a lot of serious work. A few new 'friends with benefits' (sometimes called **** buddies) wont fix that problem.
if i know them, i have no idea.. ive never met anyone who admitted to it.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
i think i used to be in the first camp (tired of taking care of kids/toddlers and didnt want anyone else touching me at night) but we've moved nicely into the fun-sex-after-kids stage.. so, ive been on both ends. but knowing it was related to kids and being tired, we both knew it would pass...
so, i honestly dont know what thats like to be with a disinterested partner - thats probably coming down the road as we get older, but hopefully not for a few more decades :-)
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I'm not really sure what to think of the husband to be honest, because I lack the pertient information.
Was he suffering from a decreased sex drive due to medical issues? Not necessarily illness either; a new medication, major stress, even just getting old could do that.
Maybe he didn't become disinterested in sex, but only in sex with her. I know that if I were to catch my (future) wife sleeping around, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in being intimate with her EVER again.
But assuming he just plain lost interest in sex... well, as to whether he has a responsibility to "honor that portion of his marriage," that can really only be decided between the people involved. All I would say is that for me personally, that door would have to swing both ways - either both partners have that responsibility, or neither do. Wifey can't expect Hubby to get hot and bothered when she wants him to, but then pull the "I have a headache" routine when she's disinterested.
As far as their arrangement, it sounds like he's able to get some on the side as well. If it weren't for that, all I'd feel for him is pity; pity for another man who falls into the BS "I exist only to please the woman (women) in my life" mindset. Though it sounds like an equitable arrangement, and if they're all happy about it, good for them. I have zero interest in judging him as a husband or a man, being as I don't buy into that mindset either and consequently couldn't care less if some man isn't making his wife happy; nobody can ever be responsible for another person's happiness, it is impossible to ensure such and any attempt to do so only ensures misery for all parties involved.
I am sort of concerned for the kid(s) in such a situation, I have to admit, although assuming that nothing goes on around children, such an arrangement is infinitely preferable to Mom and Dad divorcing and Mom shacking up with her girlfriend (or more likely kicking Dad out and moving girlfriend in). At least this way both parents are still in their child(ren)'s life.
what if she just has a high sex drive and he is not interested in keeping up? is that reason to disolve a marriage and a family?
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
honestly, i dont think i could... but i dont covet anyone else's guy around here. my guy has all his hair still and a lot of our neighbors and friends are challenged in that area :-)
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
I didn't know that you knew the intimate details of their relationship and just how much he did or didn't work on the sexual part. You are assuming that everything she has said is fact and that there are no possible variations. For all I know there could be something SHE was doing to keep him from being able or wanting to have sex with her. How much did SHE try to fix the sexual part of their relationship before adding a third party? Maybe she should've been seeing a therapist to figure out what was wrong with her that she felt the need to go outside of her marriage for sex.
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I'm not really sure what to think of the husband to be honest, because I lack the pertient information.
Was he suffering from a decreased sex drive due to medical issues? Not necessarily illness either; a new medication, major stress, even just getting old could do that.
Maybe he didn't become disinterested in sex, but only in sex with her. I know that if I were to catch my (future) wife sleeping around, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in being intimate with her EVER again.
But assuming he just plain lost interest in sex... well, as to whether he has a responsibility to "honor that portion of his marriage," that can really only be decided between the people involved. All I would say is that for me personally, that door would have to swing both ways - either both partners have that responsibility, or neither do. Wifey can't expect Hubby to get hot and bothered when she wants him to, but then pull the "I have a headache" routine when she's disinterested.
As far as their arrangement, it sounds like he's able to get some on the side as well. If it weren't for that, all I'd feel for him is pity; pity for another man who falls into the BS "I exist only to please the woman (women) in my life" mindset. Though it sounds like an equitable arrangement, and if they're all happy about it, good for them. I have zero interest in judging him as a husband or a man, being as I don't buy into that mindset either and consequently couldn't care less if some man isn't making his wife happy; nobody can ever be responsible for another person's happiness, it is impossible to ensure such and any attempt to do so only ensures misery for all parties involved.
I am sort of concerned for the kid(s) in such a situation, I have to admit, although assuming that nothing goes on around children, such an arrangement is infinitely preferable to Mom and Dad divorcing and Mom shacking up with her girlfriend (or more likely kicking Dad out and moving girlfriend in). At least this way both parents are still in their child(ren)'s life.
what if she just has a high sex drive and he is not interested in keeping up? is that reason to disolve a marriage and a family?
I'm personally of the opinion that a marriage should be indissoluble. If there's a problem it should be worked out, rather than giving up on the marriage altogether. It seems that this couple reached an agreement to which they were both amicable and which allowed them to maintain their marriage, so that is to the good in my view.
Of course, such an arrangement would understabdably not be everyone's cup of tea, and the reality is that people do divorce. Once again my standard is that only if one finds it acceptable for a man to divorce his wife because she doesn't put out enough would the converse be acceptable as well. I personally wouldn't approve of divorce in either of such situations, but then again I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation in which I would approve of divorce. It'd have to be something along the lines of attempted murder of one's spouse in severity.
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I'm personally of the opinion that a marriage should be indissoluble. If there's a problem it should be worked out, rather than giving up on the marriage altogether. It seems that this couple reached an agreement to which they were both amicable and which allowed them to maintain their marriage, so that is to the good in my view.
Of course, such an arrangement would understabdably not be everyone's cup of tea, and the reality is that people do divorce. Once again my standard is that only if one finds it acceptable for a man to divorce his wife because she doesn't put out enough would the converse be acceptable as well. I personally wouldn't approve of divorce in either of such situations, but then again I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation in which I would approve of divorce. It'd have to be something along the lines of attempted murder of one's spouse in severity.
Valid reasons for divorce:
* Infidelity
* Physical or verbal abuse
* Drug or alcohol addiction
* Pattern of deception
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I'm not really sure what to think of the husband to be honest, because I lack the pertient information.
Was he suffering from a decreased sex drive due to medical issues? Not necessarily illness either; a new medication, major stress, even just getting old could do that.
Maybe he didn't become disinterested in sex, but only in sex with her. I know that if I were to catch my (future) wife sleeping around, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in being intimate with her EVER again.
But assuming he just plain lost interest in sex... well, as to whether he has a responsibility to "honor that portion of his marriage," that can really only be decided between the people involved. All I would say is that for me personally, that door would have to swing both ways - either both partners have that responsibility, or neither do. Wifey can't expect Hubby to get hot and bothered when she wants him to, but then pull the "I have a headache" routine when she's disinterested.
As far as their arrangement, it sounds like he's able to get some on the side as well. If it weren't for that, all I'd feel for him is pity; pity for another man who falls into the BS "I exist only to please the woman (women) in my life" mindset. Though it sounds like an equitable arrangement, and if they're all happy about it, good for them. I have zero interest in judging him as a husband or a man, being as I don't buy into that mindset either and consequently couldn't care less if some man isn't making his wife happy; nobody can ever be responsible for another person's happiness, it is impossible to ensure such and any attempt to do so only ensures misery for all parties involved.
I am sort of concerned for the kid(s) in such a situation, I have to admit, although assuming that nothing goes on around children, such an arrangement is infinitely preferable to Mom and Dad divorcing and Mom shacking up with her girlfriend (or more likely kicking Dad out and moving girlfriend in). At least this way both parents are still in their child(ren)'s life.
Lot's of assumptions made about her, but 'lack the pertinent info' about the husband.
I guess I find that kind of funny.
My opinion? He's a total wimp and pushover who doesn't really give a damn about his marriage either or his wife, but knows it is easier financially and otherwise to stay married.
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
Well, if Matthew McConawhateverhisname decides to knock on my door, I told my husband I would be packing a bag for the weekend and not to wait up for me.
To which he replied, "if Jessica Alba knocks on the door, I'm stepping over you! Not even taking the time to pack a bag". :lmao: :evillaugh:
Ooh, I'm liking on him too. We'd have to fight for him sister! :popcorn: :-)
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
i think i used to be in the first camp (tired of taking care of kids/toddlers and didnt want anyone else touching me at night) but we've moved nicely into the fun-sex-after-kids stage.. so, ive been on both ends. but knowing it was related to kids and being tired, we both knew it would pass...
so, i honestly dont know what thats like to be with a disinterested partner - thats probably coming down the road as we get older, but hopefully not for a few more decades :-)
A lot of women don't and I think that's why they are very very quick to judge a woman so harshly in that situation. Speaking from personal experience, it sucks and it is more about sex, it really effects your self-esteem as a woman since you know it is a not a normal situation.
I really think everyone should think about this type of thing in more depth. Abnormal situations breed abnormal results like this and lots of dysfunction.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
I didn't know that you knew the intimate details of their relationship and just how much he did or didn't work on the sexual part. You are assuming that everything she has said is fact and that there are no possible variations. For all I know there could be something SHE was doing to keep him from being able or wanting to have sex with her. How much did SHE try to fix the sexual part of their relationship before adding a third party? Maybe she should've been seeing a therapist to figure out what was wrong with her that she felt the need to go outside of her marriage for sex.
No, bri and you don't have to be so insulting because I stepped on your internet toes and challenged you. I, however, did take the time to read a few other stories on the couple(a habit I have of researching a bit further before I comment on things so I have a bit more of the whole story). Also, Bri, I know what it is like to be in a relationship with a man like this--both who could give a shit if your needs are being met to the tune of not touching you for months and who green lights you to 'do what you need to'. It is devastating and although it is none of your business, I think you should understand the perspective. I give her some berth because I actually KNOW what can precipitate dysfunction like this.
As for the topic at hand, if it is like my relationship was, you are telling me that you think there is absolutely no therapy the MAN needs for the fact that he refuses to be a part of a normal marital relationship more then a few times a year or that he would be ok with encouraging a lack of fidelity in the marriage instead of working on it?
As far as assumptions, I'm not the only one guilty of that in this thread so spare me that dig. Individuals in forums are inclined to making assumptions all the time since we can never really know the full story about anything can we? By offering commentary and opinion we are ALL inclinded to make assumptions to do reach our conclusions: essentially we are left to fill in the blanks based not only on information, but our own life experiences. Bri, you are no exception to this so you trying to insult me on it is little more then deflection on the original topic. I'd appreciate if you would stick to the topic and try to debate it reasonably and thoughtfully. Now, if you'd like to continue in a thoughtful manner, I would appreciate it. If not, I wish you good day and I'll be happy to carry on the debate with someone like EastFacing and Lauri who are willing to turn it over on its sides and actually discuss the issues related to it.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
i think i used to be in the first camp (tired of taking care of kids/toddlers and didnt want anyone else touching me at night) but we've moved nicely into the fun-sex-after-kids stage.. so, ive been on both ends. but knowing it was related to kids and being tired, we both knew it would pass...
so, i honestly dont know what thats like to be with a disinterested partner - thats probably coming down the road as we get older, but hopefully not for a few more decades :-)
A lot of women don't and I think that's why they are very very quick to judge a woman so harshly in that situation. Speaking from personal experience, it sucks and it is more about sex, it really effects your self-esteem as a woman since you know it is a not a normal situation.
I really think everyone should think about this type of thing in more depth. Abnormal situations breed abnormal results like this and lots of dysfunction.
well, but is it 'abnormal' to the two people involved?
i think if a lot of people here were more honest, they'd be less disapproving. i seriously doubt everyone on this board has only had sex one way for all of their married life..
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
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I think if there are no kids involved do what ever the heck you want. Once kids are involved there is a whole new dynamic in the mix. You have to go into it knowing that you may confuse the hell out of a child if he/she were to find out.
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You Gals!...
If someone offered you a Manwich with the two hunkiest guys in your personal universes as the Whole Wheat Bread to your Smoked Turkey ya'll KNOW you would be all over that like white on rice!
:tongue: :evillaugh: :lmao:
Well, if Matthew McConawhateverhisname decides to knock on my door, I told my husband I would be packing a bag for the weekend and not to wait up for me.
To which he replied, "if Jessica Alba knocks on the door, I'm stepping over you! Not even taking the time to pack a bag". :lmao: :evillaugh:
Ooh, I'm liking on him too. We'd have to fight for him sister! :popcorn: :-)
We can share. :-) As long as Jessica Alba comes along to distract my hubby. :lmao:
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I think that in this particular case, we don't have enough information. From any of the involved parties. There are three sides to every marriage: his, hers, and the truth.
I can honestly say that I used to think the EastFacingNorth about marriage (see his post above). In fact, I firmly held the belief that I would marry the love of my life and stay with him until death. It didn't work out that way at all.
Now, I am in no way chiding EFN for his stance. In fact, I find it admirable and I hope he makes the decisions in life that will help him achieve those ideals.
My point is that you never know what you're going to get in a marriage. But most importantly, you never know how each of you will deal with those circumstances until they are put in front of you. It's not only who you choose to marry, it how you choose to act.
I can also say that your choice of spouse can make or break your marriage when a crisis hits. I have the advantage of comparision though. I'm now remarried and it's like night and day. We have weathered some pretty bad storms. Some that would have crushed my first marriage instantly. This one has only gotten stronger.
You can chalk that up to more than just a good match between spouses though. Maturity, experience, honesty, committment, etc...a good relationship takes many components. It's like an orchestra. Every instrument must not only play, it must play correctly in order to make something beautiful.
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All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I don't think it's really fair to say anything about the husband since we haven't heard his side of the story. Who knows if this woman is telling the entire story or just the parts that make her not look like the terrible, pathetic cheater that she is.
I actually took the time when the story came out to look into it more. Apparently both the husband and the bi lover did not want to comment publicly, but both contributed to the book about the open marriage. So given he is ok with this enough to agree to his wife publishing a book about it, I ask you again, what do you think of a man(or woman) who will agree to such a thing? Her husband apparently doesn't think of her in the same light so the vitriol is really ridiculous for the question at hand. So, she's a cheater, but he allows it. Again I ask, what do you think of a spouse who will not only allow it, but not work on that portion of their marriage and honor that particular part of the commitment BEFORE the cheating happens? I know its an uncomfy topic since females generally are squirming out of this particular part of the marriage by the time 3 kids have hit the floor and they are approaching middle age and/or women in GOOD marriages have no concept of living with a spouse who is disinterested in a sexual relationship or worse outright rejects them in that way on a regular basis--after all men always want sex all of the time right that its inconceivable to most women that there are women who live in marriages where their spouse is totally disconnected and uninterested. Look forward to your reply.
I didn't know that you knew the intimate details of their relationship and just how much he did or didn't work on the sexual part. You are assuming that everything she has said is fact and that there are no possible variations. For all I know there could be something SHE was doing to keep him from being able or wanting to have sex with her. How much did SHE try to fix the sexual part of their relationship before adding a third party? Maybe she should've been seeing a therapist to figure out what was wrong with her that she felt the need to go outside of her marriage for sex.
No, bri and you don't have to be so insulting because I stepped on your internet toes and challenged you. I, however, did take the time to read a few other stories on the couple(a habit I have of researching a bit further before I comment on things so I have a bit more of the whole story). Also, Bri, I know what it is like to be in a relationship with a man like this--both who could give a shit if your needs are being met to the tune of not touching you for months and who green lights you to 'do what you need to'. It is devastating and although it is none of your business, I think you should understand the perspective. I give her some berth because I actually KNOW what can precipitate dysfunction like this.
As for the topic at hand, if it is like my relationship was, you are telling me that you think there is absolutely no therapy the MAN needs for the fact that he refuses to be a part of a normal marital relationship more then a few times a year or that he would be ok with encouraging a lack of fidelity in the marriage instead of working on it?
As far as assumptions, I'm not the only one guilty of that in this thread so spare me that dig. Individuals in forums are inclined to making assumptions all the time since we can never really know the full story about anything can we? By offering commentary and opinion we are ALL inclinded to make assumptions to do reach our conclusions: essentially we are left to fill in the blanks based not only on information, but our own life experiences. Bri, you are no exception to this so you trying to insult me on it is little more then deflection on the original topic. I'd appreciate if you would stick to the topic and try to debate it reasonably and thoughtfully. Now, if you'd like to continue in a thoughtful manner, I would appreciate it. If not, I wish you good day and I'll be happy to carry on the debate with someone like EastFacing and Lauri who are willing to turn it over on its sides and actually discuss the issues related to it.
I certainly didn't mean to be insulting and I do apologize if it came across that way. You didn't step on my "internet toes" nor do I feel challenged by you and your opinion. To say that, based on my recent posts, is reaching at best IMO. My point is that you're asking a question based on a situation where you're making certain assumptions not knowing all the facts. I am also forming my opinion based on assumptions and/or a different scenario than you.
It seems as though you're making this very personal based on your own situation. By doing so you're making it difficult to debate this with anyone because you are taking any disagreement as a personal dig. Don't assume that you're the only one that understands what it's like to be in a situation such as this. There are MANY variants that would change my opinion on the people involved. Although it honestly doesn't matter what my opinion of others is. I've always heard and have known this to be true. There are three sides to every story, his side, her side and the truth.
As for the topic at hand, if it is like my relationship was, you are telling me that you think there is absolutely no therapy the MAN needs for the fact that he refuses to be a part of a normal marital relationship more then a few times a year or that he would be ok with encouraging a lack of fidelity in the marriage instead of working on it?
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said such a thing.
Bri, you are no exception to this so you trying to insult me on it is little more then deflection on the original topic. I'd appreciate if you would stick to the topic and try to debate it reasonably and thoughtfully.
As I said previously, I was NOT trying to insult you. I have been sticking to the topic, you're the one that's turning this into a personal situation. I have been debating reasonably, not with raw emotion. If you only want to debate or discuss with people that agree with you, then obviously our discussion here is done. I will NEVER think it's ok to cheat under any circumstances. Nobody could change my opinion on that, ever. I also never said that someone who would agree to this type of situation because they just didn't want to have sex with their spouse is a-ok.
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There are three sides to every marriage: his, hers, and the truth.
Dangit, I said the same thing and would've said it first if I didn't have to go change a poopy diaper in the middle of typing out my reply. ::)
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LOL! No problem.
I don't know who said that to me first but it was brilliant and so true!
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If MrsCheaterPantsMcBitchyBitch and MrCheaterPantsDoucheyDouche want to cheat and ruin other people's lives all the while only thinking of their weenies I guess that is fine. I mean who cares about the kids involved or the lack of morality? Who cares about wedding vows or decency. As long as someone is having an orgasm that just makes it all worth while. As we all know tons of people have died from the lack of sex.
It is really too bad that there are no devices to help people who are so involved with their genitals that they can't think straight. Maybe someday someone will invent a battery operated thingamajig so that horny women can keep their pants on instead of hopping on the neighbors johnson. Maybe someday men will evolve to the point where their hands could be used for more than fixing a flat tire and picking their noses.
:sarcasm: :ranton:
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(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l307/asdf2231/Motivational/multi.jpg)
:cheersmate:
:innocent: :rotf: :tongue: :evillaugh:
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
well, thats where i was coming from... i dont think its always 'bad' marriages where people experiment.
youre in vegas... you get a bit tipsy... and hey! nobody knows you in Vegas! :uhsure:
*note to self, stop talking now* :-)
i kid, i kid... never happened to me
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
well, thats where i was coming from... i dont think its always 'bad' marriages where people experiment.
youre in vegas... you get a bit tipsy... and hey! nobody knows you in Vegas! :uhsure:
*note to self, stop talking now* :-)
i kid, i kid... never happened to me
LOL...liar! :-)
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
well, thats where i was coming from... i dont think its always 'bad' marriages where people experiment.
youre in vegas... you get a bit tipsy... and hey! nobody knows you in Vegas! :uhsure:
*note to self, stop talking now* :-)
i kid, i kid... never happened to me
LOL...liar! :-)
seriously! ive never even *been* there :-)
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
well, thats where i was coming from... i dont think its always 'bad' marriages where people experiment.
youre in vegas... you get a bit tipsy... and hey! nobody knows you in Vegas! :uhsure:
*note to self, stop talking now* :-)
i kid, i kid... never happened to me
LOL...liar! :-)
seriously! ive never even *been* there :-)
riiiiiighhht. :uhsure:
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ok, i once drove thru the area with my friend on my way from Dallas back to Seattle after my dad's funeral...
even if i hadnt looked like hell from crying .. we didnt even stay near the strip. or the hookers.
so, no deal for me. :bawl:
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To be fair, a more professional picture of her.
(http://www.bookpassage.com/upload/blockJenny.jpg)
All I will say is I understand the original problems in her marriage, even if I don't agree with her solution to them. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people are discouraged from considering when entering into a relationship and it is important that it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm surprised there is no disgust at her husband though. If he did indeed agree to this, what are your thoughts on him as a man and a husband if his solution is to agree to his wife having multiple affairs instead of him 'working on it':the sexual portion of his marriage? Just curious if anyone here has issue with spouses who have no physical issues who have decided they will not honor this portion of their marriage because they just 'aren't interested'. Is there any responsibility on him to honor that portion of his marriage while his wife works on adjusting her own view?
I'm not really sure what to think of the husband to be honest, because I lack the pertient information.
Was he suffering from a decreased sex drive due to medical issues? Not necessarily illness either; a new medication, major stress, even just getting old could do that.
Maybe he didn't become disinterested in sex, but only in sex with her. I know that if I were to catch my (future) wife sleeping around, I sure as hell wouldn't be interested in being intimate with her EVER again.
But assuming he just plain lost interest in sex... well, as to whether he has a responsibility to "honor that portion of his marriage," that can really only be decided between the people involved. All I would say is that for me personally, that door would have to swing both ways - either both partners have that responsibility, or neither do. Wifey can't expect Hubby to get hot and bothered when she wants him to, but then pull the "I have a headache" routine when she's disinterested.
As far as their arrangement, it sounds like he's able to get some on the side as well. If it weren't for that, all I'd feel for him is pity; pity for another man who falls into the BS "I exist only to please the woman (women) in my life" mindset. Though it sounds like an equitable arrangement, and if they're all happy about it, good for them. I have zero interest in judging him as a husband or a man, being as I don't buy into that mindset either and consequently couldn't care less if some man isn't making his wife happy; nobody can ever be responsible for another person's happiness, it is impossible to ensure such and any attempt to do so only ensures misery for all parties involved.
I am sort of concerned for the kid(s) in such a situation, I have to admit, although assuming that nothing goes on around children, such an arrangement is infinitely preferable to Mom and Dad divorcing and Mom shacking up with her girlfriend (or more likely kicking Dad out and moving girlfriend in). At least this way both parents are still in their child(ren)'s life.
Lot's of assumptions made about her, but 'lack the pertinent info' about the husband.
I guess I find that kind of funny.
My opinion? He's a total wimp and pushover who doesn't really give a damn about his marriage either or his wife, but knows it is easier financially and otherwise to stay married.
Well, I never claimed to be objective or unbiased.
You're right that it's easier to stay married, especially for him. I guess a desire to avoid being driven into destitution by alimony and child support payments makes one a wimp in your view? To me, that's just being rational - men so seldom come out on top in a divorce (and by "on top" I don't mean better off than their wife, but better off than he was before the divorce or even the marriage) that unless a guy could afford to buy off the entire family court it would almost never be worth it pursing a divorce, EXPECIALLY when there are children.
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If MrsCheaterPantsMcBitchyBitch and MrCheaterPantsDoucheyDouche want to cheat and ruin other people's lives all the while only thinking of their weenies I guess that is fine. I mean who cares about the kids involved or the lack of morality? Who cares about wedding vows or decency. As long as someone is having an orgasm that just makes it all worth while. As we all know tons of people have died from the lack of sex.
It is really too bad that there are no devices to help people who are so involved with their genitals that they can't think straight. Maybe someday someone will invent a battery operated thingamajig so that horny women can keep their pants on instead of hopping on the neighbors johnson. Maybe someday men will evolve to the point where their hands could be used for more than fixing a flat tire and picking their noses.
:sarcasm: :ranton:
Maybe someday men will evolve to the point where their hands could be used for more than fixing a flat tire and picking their noses.
Does your husband know about your high opinion of men in general? After all he is one!.......Maybe you should start checking up on him if he knows your opinion of him :uhsure:
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If MrsCheaterPantsMcBitchyBitch and MrCheaterPantsDoucheyDouche want to cheat and ruin other people's lives all the while only thinking of their weenies I guess that is fine. I mean who cares about the kids involved or the lack of morality? Who cares about wedding vows or decency. As long as someone is having an orgasm that just makes it all worth while. As we all know tons of people have died from the lack of sex.
It is really too bad that there are no devices to help people who are so involved with their genitals that they can't think straight. Maybe someday someone will invent a battery operated thingamajig so that horny women can keep their pants on instead of hopping on the neighbors johnson. Maybe someday men will evolve to the point where their hands could be used for more than fixing a flat tire and picking their noses.
:sarcasm: :ranton:
Maybe someday men will evolve to the point where their hands could be used for more than fixing a flat tire and picking their noses.
Does your husband know about your high opinion of men in general? After all he is one!.......Maybe you should start checking up on him if he knows your opinion of him :uhsure:
I have a great opinion of my husband and men in general. Maybe you should have read the sarcasm tags. People that think with their genitals make me want to hurl.
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Think this has outlived its usefulness in the lounge and moving it to GD. I'll leave it up to that mod as it progresses whether it should take a turn to the Fight Club.
As for me, I heartily disagree with the black and white thinking since I last posted. I understand what its like to be a woman who can't understand the nuances of human relationships. We all like to think its a matter of morality and we are superior to others because then we think it can never happen to us. A good many good and moral people have been pulled down by thinking it could never happen to them and that they were beyond the fraility of sin and the human condition and that their marriages were 'untouchable' and that their spouse would do anything to mend things and would never lash out at them in such a hurtful way.
I'll also add as I said above, there are nuances to relationships and situations that if not in them we could not possibly comprehend. I do not believe it is about the sex, nor do I think it is the first option in many situations. I do believe many things like this start out emotionally and that's where the real attraction is, but just like with a normal situation the emotional often leads to the physical. The crass and crude name-calling is just ridiculous. I find it serves no purpose then to attempt to deflect attention away from how shallow the opinion is of the person using it. In fairness, I don't expect an individual that invested in crassness and concrete thinking to really understand the situations or nuances I mentioned. Acknowledging them doesn't make it any less wrong when this occurs, but like it or not, they are usually there and there is more reason then sexual drive for why things like this happen.
Last word on it from this end since I think my modship refrains me from addressing it much further. :innocent:
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:whatever:
Well la dee freaking da. I understand extremely well what you are trying to scream at everyone here. We all get it! We just don't all agree. Do you get that? We are not retards because we think you should keep your pants on. And sometimes the world is in black and white. There is no excuse for cheating. It is breaking vows you made before God. It is putting your needs above everything else in this world. It is NOT right.
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You guys can continue to discuss this or if someone wants to take it to the Fight Club, I will move it. I'm not smacking fingers here, just telling you the options. This moved from the Lounge to GD because of the direction it took. We can keep it here or if someone wants to get down and dirty, we can do that too. We got options. :-)
And jty, you are no longer obligated to moderate since this isn't in the Lounge. You're a civilian this go-round.
Carry on guys. This is actually a great debate and worthy discussion.
dixiebelle
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So heres a notion that no one has hit on yet...
What if a married couple with a good solid relationship goes into something like this with BOTH partners enthusiatic about the notion rather than it being the result of a dissatisfied partner dragging someone along for the ride?
Changes the dynamic a little, donnit?
Is it still "Cheating" if both spouses are a party to it and making decisions together on who they get involved with outside of the familial marriage bed?
No, that's the kind of relationship I was talking about in response to the question about "Ever seen one work?" In my elclectic mix of acquaintances and friends through life, I'd have to say I have known of several such relationships, and they have always eventually fetched up on the rocks due to a divergence of goals. Eventually one of them wants more stability and monogamy than the other one, and the fun boat sinks.
At the same time I have to say marriage is only as sacrosanct as the two partners want to make it. If screwing around is fine with both of them, it's really nobody else's business...assuming their external partners aren't deceived about their marital status.
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:whatever:
Well la dee freaking da. I understand extremely well what you are trying to scream at everyone here. We all get it! We just don't all agree. Do you get that? We are not retards because we think you should keep your pants on. And sometimes the world is in black and white. There is no excuse for cheating. It is breaking vows you made before God. It is putting your needs above everything else in this world. It is NOT right.
Point made again, mamacags. :lmao: Do I even really need to address it. Your emotionality and finger pointing and name calling speaks volumes. All I did, was give it back to you in terms you understand and then you dare accuse me of debating that way.
I'll state it for you again in terms you understand. NOBODY has claimed cheating is right, however people have stated, me included, that they KNOW this does not happen in a vacuum. It's not real difficult to understand and you could pleasantly just state you disagree without the insults. Hell, DATanker has even went so far as to say your values do not apply to someone else's marriage so your insults mean even less when you consider that opinion. I find it hilarious though that in true style it is me, as a female, whose opinion gets hoisted on the petard--I guess I break the 'girls club rule of calling every woman who cheats a skank and every man who does it an asshole' :whatever:.
Mama, in the end game I find it totally disingenous of you to tell me I don't accept that you disagree when you've done the same thing in the crudest of terms throughout this thread. If you expect me to just accept what you are saying as disagreement, then have the good manners to do the same thing without lobbying out an insult.
I'm willing to agree to disagree if you are willing to do the same. Ball is in your court.
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You guys can continue to discuss this or if someone wants to take it to the Fight Club, I will move it. I'm not smacking fingers here, just telling you the options. This moved from the Lounge to GD because of the direction it took. We can keep it here or if someone wants to get down and dirty, we can do that too. We got options. :-)
And jty, you are no longer obligated to moderate since this isn't in the Lounge. You're a civilian this go-round.
Carry on guys. This is actually a great debate and worthy discussion.
dixiebelle
No need, for what to point out the obvious? LOL. What a waste of a morning. I'm off to the zoo with the people that really matter: my children and my mother. See ya.
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You are right, it does speak volumes, about you and your choices. Make all of the excuses you want you know it isn't right. Believe me when I say that I am not the only one here who sees things the same way about several things.
You insult everyone here all of the time and then have the audacity to be catty when someone else calls you out. Nice.
I am on vacation with my family so I probably won't have time to respond until tomorrow. Have at it while I am gone.
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You are right, it does speak volumes, about you and your choices. Make all of the excuses you want you know it isn't right. Believe me when I say that I am not the only one here who sees things the same way about several things.
You insult everyone here all of the time and then have the audacity to be catty when someone else calls you out. Nice.
I am on vacation with my family so I probably won't have time to respond until tomorrow. Have at it while I am gone.
Stepping in as Moderator here:
That was a bit close to the line. Keep it about this topic or take it to the Fight Club.
A word to everyone in this thread: Clearly emotions run high when discussing such intimate topics as sex and fidelity. We all have our own opinions and life experiences. Let's not pass judgement on each other for vehemently disagreeing. If you want to make it personal you know where the Fight Club is.
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As for me, I heartily disagree with the black and white thinking since I last posted. I understand what its like to be a woman who can't understand the nuances of human relationships. We all like to think its a matter of morality and we are superior to others because then we think it can never happen to us. A good many good and moral people have been pulled down by thinking it could never happen to them and that they were beyond the fraility of sin and the human condition and that their marriages were 'untouchable' and that their spouse would do anything to mend things and would never lash out at them in such a hurtful way.
Sometimes things in life ARE black and white and you just have to call a spade, a spade or in the case a hoe, a hoe. You cannot control what your spouse does but you can control yourself. To say that someone else made you do it because of their behavior or lack thereof is asinine. Just because good and moral people have made mistakes doesn't make them any less of a mistake.
I'll also add as I said above, there are nuances to relationships and situations that if not in them we could not possibly comprehend. I do not believe it is about the sex, nor do I think it is the first option in many situations. I do believe many things like this start out emotionally and that's where the real attraction is, but just like with a normal situation the emotional often leads to the physical. The crass and crude name-calling is just ridiculous. I find it serves no purpose then to attempt to deflect attention away from how shallow the opinion is of the person using it. In fairness, I don't expect an individual that invested in crassness and concrete thinking to really understand the situations or nuances I mentioned. Acknowledging them doesn't make it any less wrong when this occurs, but like it or not, they are usually there and there is more reason then sexual drive for why things like this happen.
I will agree with you that these types of things almost always start out emotionally and lead to physical relationships. Where we seem to disagree is that I feel those who cheat need to accept the blame for their own actions rather than blaming their behavior on someone else. IMO there is never a good excuse to cheat. If you get to the point where you feel the need to cheat on your spouse then a divorce would seem to be in order.