The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on April 14, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
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BACKGROUND: L'Affair de Bundy
Taitertots (6,067 posts)
54. If they were serious they would send enough troops to quell the insurection
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
67. And hopefully
my fellow soldiers would refuse orders to shoot American citizens. Good Christ, do you hear yourself? The rancher is wrong and needs to be dealt with, but you want soldiers to quell the rebellion. Unreal.
Taitertots (6,067 posts)
71. "Dealt with" How? Asking him nicely?
I should hope our soldiers don't commit treason and support open insurrection.
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
81. It would be treason
to shoot American citizens. Perhaps you should read the oath........Fortunately I have no doubts about my peers. Any government official of any political party that orders the military to shoot civilians is committing treason. FORTUNATELY our government knows what is right and wrong and will never order the military to do this. Local law enforcement or State Police? Yeah no problem.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
77. You surely have heard of SWAT right?
And ERT? I hope
By the way, the US Army has now a unit dedicated precisely for civil insurrections. I know and you know that this is not something to relish, and that it violates Posse Commitatus, but if enough people take up arms and shoot at Federal Agents, the Governor has the option of calling the Guard in. This has been done in the past, with Posse in the books.
The Feds also have the opportunity to federalize that Guard, read the history of where the 101 ended up during the 1950s. So yes, there is plenty of precedent.
Oh and if you have an open insurrection, I expect the US army to be used. I don't relish that thought, but I expect it. It is US History...that informs this.
For the record, I think the US government made a serious mistake and you too can go visit certain well known far right places on the web to read their take on this.
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
79. The person I responded to said troops
not cops. Cops are fine in this case. NOT SOLDIERS. The vast majority of my peers would turn their guns on anyone Republican or Democrat if that person asked them to open fire American citizens. And I know all about the unit Nadin, it is the 4th Brigade here at Fort Bliss, I train them on ethics and intelligence gathering, among other things. The U.S. military is NEVER to be used against its own citizens, I don't care who is President, that is wrong.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
83. Let me give you a couple links that will get you started into just one time that the Army
were used in the united states against civilians after the civil war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Coal_Wars
So I would never, ever say that this would never happen and that troops would not obey orders.
There is no doubt in my mind that a percentage of troops will disobey orders, but not enough to make a difference. If in the judgement of the Commander in Chief troops need to deploy during an internal insurrection, they will deploy. Even more if that internal insurrection leads to any of these groups declaring secession from the United States. At that point, LEGALLY, they are no longer citizens but in open rebellion.
And many folks do confuse the term troops as only applying to the military. Given that police is considered a paramilitary organization under international law, I will leave it at that.
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
86. The AVA
is not the same as the Army in your links. You might find a few soldiers per platoon to follow these orders, but I would bet my salt that I have a good pulse on the Army after 20 years serving. Most of us would turn our guns on whoever ordered us to shoot civilians. If they engage in OPEN ATTACKS then I don't disagree. But in Nevada the only violence I saw was from the BLM, under those circumstances soldiers would never attack civilians.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
92. And NONE is calling the army for that
we are not talking of the same scale. I am talking of precisely what the FAR RIGHT WING wants and is working towards, an open rebellion against the government of the United States. I am not shitting you. That is what they have been working towards for a long time.
If they ever achieve it, mark my words, the United States Army will be deployed (again) inside the United States and will be ordered to shoot. Civilians will die, as collateral damage or due to the fact that some of these folks will use them as human shields, or because the army will start to see all as a potential enemy (like any good civil war)
That is why some of us are NOT looking forwards to that. What happened today was not good, at all. It just gave that group wings. Go read the sites, it is not pretty.
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
82. I have no issue with Cops, SWAT
or State Police doing anything. My objection is the military angle. Tanks, Bradleys and Apaches nor U.S. soldiers should ever be used in this manner. One or two here have advocated that, any order I ever receive to open fire on American citizens will result in me turning my gun on whoever gave that order. That doesn't make me less of a Democrat or a Closet Republican, it makes me an American soldier (or in my case a retired one) who will never attack my own citizens.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
85. Ironically that has happened a few times
when those orders have been issued.
And that is the stance the Oath Keepers take.
AnalystInParadise (685 posts)
87. A broken clock is right twice a day
I have no truck or sympathy for the Oath Keepers, but if they believe it is wrong to follow orders to attack civilians I won't disagree with them. Let me try again: Save your breath, there is almost no situation that could come about where soldiers followed orders to shoot civilians. There are a few caveats, but very few. Most likely anyone giving those orders would be looking down the barrels of almost every weapon in the unit that was given that order. Political party becomes irrelevant when soldiers are asked to violate their oath, their conscience and morality.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
90. And if you have what they want, a civil war
then those folks become internal enemies, and in open rebellion and committing treason in the full legal meaning of the word.
So think about that, because that is what a few on the far right WANT.
nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
160. Did you forget the part about DOMESTIC enemies?
in that oath?
Really, you did.
Open rebellion is considered treason, one of the few things that actually are.
I suspect you will be surprised if we have an open rebellion though. And that is all I have to say.
As to Apaches and Bradleys, not Apaches, but civilian forces have in their hands APCs (mostly second hand) and Blackhawks. (As per the FBI ERT), So it guess you would have no problem if the FBI ERT used all the fire power in their arsenal.
There are days.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024814360
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Oh geezuz.
My head's starting to hurt even when I'm not reading the cousin.
It's a universal trait in humans, to want to like others, to want to get along with others, to want to be nice to others, and so I've always wanted to like, get along with, and be nice, to the cousin.
But because of her overweening arrogance and condescension, she makes it so damned hard.
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It's a universal trait in humans, to want to like others, to want to get along with others, to want to be nice to others...
Fortunately I was born without this flaw.
:-)
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Fortunately I was born without this flaw.
:-)
It may be because you're a rabbit. Parmy says you rabbits are bad people.
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Nads, when you have to quote wiki on what went on in the West Virginia coal wars, you should probably shut the hell up. It just makes you sound and look even more stupid than you already are. For future reference do all West Virginians a favor and never let the name of our beloved state come out of your mouth again.
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Nadin says "Posse Commitatus"....it's a dang wonder she didn't say "P*ssy comatose".
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Holder would argue Posse Commitatus doesn't apply because it was BLM agents and not the Army.
DUmmies would stand in line to agree and shake his hand.
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What really puts the fear of the Almighty in DUmbasses hearts is knowing that the military will not support their leftist revolution.
At that point the 2nd amendment leaves them either dead or cowering.
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I think she spends a lot of time on conspiracy and liberetariaion websites. Hard to imagine with all the time she spends at DU and watching MSNBC.
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She doesn't know shit and we all know it. The last time the military shot at civilians was possibly Kent State and a protest and burning of the ROTC building mixed with rock throwing was going on. No official orders came from DC or the state of Ohio.
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How long would nads last in a revolution or zombie apocalypse? I'm guessing the fat, bald dwarf doesn't last a week. She brings no skills to the table... And no one wants to reproduce with Ben Franklin.
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... And no one wants to reproduce with Ben Franklin.
:rofl: :rofl: :hi5:
It does look like BF.
I was going to do some photoshops of the blob, but I couldn't look at that mug for more than 30 seconds without going insane.
(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608050236876587732&pid=1.7)
If I can get some of those Star Trek goggles that filter out the ugly, I'll give it a go.
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She doesn't know shit and we all know it. The last time the military shot at civilians was possibly Kent State and a protest and burning of the ROTC building mixed with rock throwing was going on. No official orders came from DC or the state of Ohio.
I'm not positive, and I could very likely be wrong and refuse to nadin it, but I believe the Guard at Kent State was under the State Police after sent in by the Governor. They were not federalized and all that "tin soldiers and Nixon comin'" was bullshit, as usual.
But, I could be wrong.....
There exists some audio evidence that - the media never has and never will show any interest in - supports the claim that the whole incident was instigated by leftist agitators firing initial shots from the dorms.
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Star Member rudolph the red (366 posts)
167. apparently, anyone can call themself a journalist nowadays
A swipe at nads?
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What that pudgeball freak doesn't know about the military has filled entire libraries.
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What that pudgeball freak doesn't know about the military has filled entire libraries.
Didn't the NSA just build a huge 'data center' out in Utah? Hmmm . . . :whistling: :tongue:
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nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
160. Did you forget the part about DOMESTIC enemies?
in that oath?
Really, you did.
Open rebellion is considered treason, one of the few things that actually are.
I suspect you will be surprised if we have an open rebellion though. And that is all I have to say.
Isn't all of that just delicious... I wonder, though, where all of that concern about oath breaking was when the occutards were stinking up downtown San Diego (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2183174)?
ChandlerJr Donating Member (554 posts)
Tue Oct-25-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. There is a big Marine Corps Base near by
someone should call Occupy Marines #OccupyMarines. They showed up in NY didn't they?
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Oct-25-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. List of major bases
USN base 32nd Street
USN Submarine Base Point Loma
USMC recruit Depot
Miramar marine air station
Up north Camp Pendleton.
If they are gonna move before the end of day and they can always put them on base lockdown.
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Tue Oct-25-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. You thought wrong
1.- not all military ate RW. Nor are all retired
2.- the political divide is to the east of the city propper. It gets redder as you go inland and it is pretty blue south of I-8.
Isn't it funny how even the "greatest" among us have standards that are situational?
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Open rebellion is considered treason
Not against a lawless and openly criminal group of grifting elitists; who are contemptuous of those who disagree with them and use the power of the Federal Government against them for exercising a constitutional right.
You stupid phat phuck.
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Star Member dflprincess (20,233 posts)
69. It would be interesting to hear from the ranchers' who are playing by the rules
and paying their leases for using the land.
Maybe there wouldn't be so many trying to make this jerk into a martyr if his peer group weighed in against him.
Hey DUmbo, read the news. Bundy is the last rancher standing. All the others have been forced out by the government. Same thing is happening in Utah.
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So easily they would throw away their freedom that they do not deserve it.
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So easily they would throw away their freedom that they do not deserve it.
They will end up living on their knees, licking the hand that feeds them.
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What really puts the fear of the Almighty in DUmbasses hearts is knowing that the military will not support their leftist revolution.
At that point the 2nd amendment leaves them either dead or cowering.
I think that AnalystinParadise made it quite clear that he would turn his gun on anyone trying to give such an order.
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I think that AnalystinParadise made it quite clear that he would turn his gun on anyone trying to give such an order.
I get the idea that DUmbasses truly do think life is like a movie script or video game where there would be soldiers on every street.
The reality is that any President or Governor attempting to subvert the Constitution would have to rely on local law enforcement to carry it out.
How many of them would openly engage an armed population?...my guess is very few out of principle or rationality.
This is why the 2nd is so important,as our founders knew.
It is also why the left so hates and fears it.
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I think that AnalystinParadise made it quite clear that he would turn his gun on anyone trying to give such an order.
Three steps forward and about face.
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I get the idea that DUmbasses truly do think life is like a movie script or video game where there would be soldiers on every street.
The reality is that any President or Governor attempting to subvert the Constitution would have to rely on local law enforcement to carry it out.
How many of them would openly engage an armed population?...my guess is very few out of principle or rationality.
This is why the 2nd is so important,as our founders knew.
It is also why the left so hates and fears it.
"IF" this was to ever happen, I could see it going down like this. First thing all those troops would do is start worrying about their own families. The military leadership, the ones that Obama's stupid ass has appointed over the ones forced out, possibly due to them not being loyal to the asshole, would then try to send people into other states like they did with the Japanese Americans in Europe, I.e. no Mississippians in Mississippi, no Georgians in Georgia, etc. This would cause a HUGE problem within the ranks seeing Georgians fighting in New York, New Yorkers fighting in Kansas, etc. No way in hell would I, from Augusta, Ga, or originally from Jackson, Ms. stand idly by and watch my fellow troops open fire on my fellow citizens. This would cause a mass exodus from the military. Desertion rates would be through the roof. Who will replace them, these functional retards? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFCnE) Any attempt to turn the military onto the general population would come at a devastating price. Governors the nation over would start mobilizing their national guards. Obama's days as quasi emperor wouldn't last long at all. He'd be forced to resign or forcibly removed, I'd prefer the latter if this scenario were to occur. American soldiers who won't follow orders blindly, and will not fire on their fellow citizens, heavily outnumber the idiots that would. You are not forced to follow an order that is illegal or immoral. Even after Waco, which was an isolated event, it caused a firestorm all over the nation from people that knew they were whackjobs, but didn't like the response.
What I'm leaving out is, as awesome as our military is, they're also heavily outnumbered, and not by tree-hugging hippie Progs. MILLIONS upon millions of gun owners and military veterans are in this nation. Adding to that would be the deserting troops that refuse to fight against their fellow citizens and who could possibly join the state guards. Can't really use all that technology and weaponry our US Armed forces has without people to man it. ...and DUmmies aren't smart enough to fill the void.
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Remember how Nuclear Unicorn changed her avatar from barry & michelle to the Anarchy "A?"
Response to n2doc (Original post) (in which the OP said that the govt should have confiscated all of Bundy's bank accounts, SS, etc.)
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 08:42 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (10,770 posts)
2. That might lead people to crash the banks and retirement system.
Especially coming on the heels of the story that the IRS is now coming after people whose parent's died with a tax debt. All your proposal does is scream that the Feds are not to be trusted with any pool of money. The obvious defense against that is for everyone who doesn't trust the government to withdraw their assets from any place the feds can find it. I can't help but think this would lead to a black market economy.
Response to DanTex (Reply #28)
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 07:46 AM
Nuclear Unicorn (10,770 posts)
100. The goons charge fees for a non-service
Nothing about the land has been improved or maintained by the BLM. But they charge fees and set limits on herd size that are so restrictive that dozens of families have had their livelihoods destroyed. Mrs. Parks was forced to sit in the back of a bus, an outrage to her rights as a human being. So too is destroying people's lives.
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #100)
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 11:55 AM
catnhatnh (6,499 posts)
135. Goons????
Your thought process is definitely ****ed up on this one. Goons are people who gather in armed mobs and threaten the Federal Government. Those mobs are VERY lucky. If I were in charge I would read them (literally) the riot act and declare that any who failed to disperse were now in armed conflict against the United States. Then photographic drones would identify who stood confronting the government. Then I would release the cows and leave. And believe me I would be most inventive about tracking down the terrorists identified and would totally destroy and jail every one of them...
Response to catnhatnh (Reply #135)
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 12:01 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (10,770 posts)
136. Way to prove me right
:lmao:
She is really starting to shock them with her libertarian views. She doesn't appear to be bowing down to the government like they want her to. She really needs to find a different group of people to hang out with. These people are not your people, Nuclear Unicorn.
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Your thought process is definitely ****ed up on this one. Goons are people who gather in armed mobs and threaten the Federal Government.
Oh noes, the poor put-upon federal government.
Some DUmmies sure have a hard-on for opressive regimes.
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They sure are hilarious as one contrasts this situation with their demands that the occupy vermin be literally given free run of the country,both public and private property.
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"IF" this was to ever happen, I could see it going down like this. First thing all those troops would do is start worrying about their own families. The military leadership, the ones that Obama's stupid ass has appointed over the ones forced out, possibly due to them not being loyal to the asshole, would then try to send people into other states like they did with the Japanese Americans in Europe, I.e. no Mississippians in Mississippi, no Georgians in Georgia, etc. This would cause a HUGE problem within the ranks seeing Georgians fighting in New York, New Yorkers fighting in Kansas, etc. No way in hell would I, from Augusta, Ga, or originally from Jackson, Ms. stand idly by and watch my fellow troops open fire on my fellow citizens. This would cause a mass exodus from the military. Desertion rates would be through the roof. Who will replace them, these functional retards? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFCnE) Any attempt to turn the military onto the general population would come at a devastating price. Governors the nation over would start mobilizing their national guards. Obama's days as quasi emperor wouldn't last long at all. He'd be forced to resign or forcibly removed, I'd prefer the latter if this scenario were to occur. American soldiers who won't follow orders blindly, and will not fire on their fellow citizens, heavily outnumber the idiots that would. You are not forced to follow an order that is illegal or immoral. Even after Waco, which was an isolated event, it caused a firestorm all over the nation from people that knew they were whackjobs, but didn't like the response.
What I'm leaving out is, as awesome as our military is, they're also heavily outnumbered, and not by tree-hugging hippie Progs. MILLIONS upon millions of gun owners and military veterans are in this nation. Adding to that would be the deserting troops that refuse to fight against their fellow citizens and who could possibly join the state guards. Can't really use all that technology and weaponry our US Armed forces has without people to man it. ...and DUmmies aren't smart enough to fill the void.
Ben Franklin troll actually thinks that if the government declared war on conservatives, that we would all just line up in engage in firing squad type battles. She also thinks that we would be concentrated near each other. She's completely unfamiliar with guerrilla warfare. I thought she was a student of history.
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I thought she was a student of history.
Delete that impression from your mind, sir; she doesn't appear to know any more about history than a pig knows about Christmas.
I thought it was funny the other day, when she pointed out that her first (and probably only) sociology professor was the then-top Communist in Mexico, as if that guaranteed his credentials and reputation as an expert in sociology.
It was as if I were to declare my credentials in anthropology based simply upon that I'm a Republican.
There's some significant "disconnect" there.
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nadinbrzezinski (132,590 posts)
160. Did you forget the part about DOMESTIC enemies?
in that oath?
Why we take it seriously....looking at you gNads, and the other freaks that screamed treason.
Think about that you filthy scrunt. You and your simpering socialists are, the domestic enemy.
It's you, that advocate violent overthrow and suppression of honest people.
You are dismissed. Have an excellent day.
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If I gotta follow her into battle, I would wish that she were taller. She's plenty wide enough for me to hide behind but she just needs to be taller.
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If I gotta follow her into battle, I would wish that she were taller. She's plenty wide enough for me to hide behind but she just needs to be taller.
Scrunch down, there's plenty of room for all of us.
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"IF" this was to ever happen, I could see it going down like this. First thing all those troops would do is start worrying about their own families. The military leadership, the ones that Obama's stupid ass has appointed over the ones forced out, possibly due to them not being loyal to the asshole, would then try to send people into other states like they did with the Japanese Americans in Europe, I.e. no Mississippians in Mississippi, no Georgians in Georgia, etc. This would cause a HUGE problem within the ranks seeing Georgians fighting in New York, New Yorkers fighting in Kansas, etc. No way in hell would I, from Augusta, Ga, or originally from Jackson, Ms. stand idly by and watch my fellow troops open fire on my fellow citizens. This would cause a mass exodus from the military. Desertion rates would be through the roof. Who will replace them, these functional retards? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtGr1JFCnE) Any attempt to turn the military onto the general population would come at a devastating price. Governors the nation over would start mobilizing their national guards. Obama's days as quasi emperor wouldn't last long at all. He'd be forced to resign or forcibly removed, I'd prefer the latter if this scenario were to occur. American soldiers who won't follow orders blindly, and will not fire on their fellow citizens, heavily outnumber the idiots that would. You are not forced to follow an order that is illegal or immoral. Even after Waco, which was an isolated event, it caused a firestorm all over the nation from people that knew they were whackjobs, but didn't like the response.
What I'm leaving out is, as awesome as our military is, they're also heavily outnumbered, and not by tree-hugging hippie Progs. MILLIONS upon millions of gun owners and military veterans are in this nation. Adding to that would be the deserting troops that refuse to fight against their fellow citizens and who could possibly join the state guards. Can't really use all that technology and weaponry our US Armed forces has without people to man it. ...and DUmmies aren't smart enough to fill the void.
H^5 Sir.
However it is not Obama I fear, it is the next democrat in office that will ride in on the screw ups of Obama. Hard to break a precedent set by ones own party's former President.
Someone is waiting in the wings to use the Puppet Obamas set up for something very anti American.
Some times a long time conspiracy in the making is in fact true, Patience is a tool of China and the Muslims, what is 8 years or 16 years to set up a slow march on another country.
Look at England, France and Spain, inundated with Muslims that demand their Host country's change their laws to suite them. Heck the Muslims are moving into China, I believe the only place they will not be welcome is North Korea.
The number of Black Muslims in America is huge and the poor son of a guns believe the middle Eastern Muslims will except them when they take over. Are they in for a surprise if this comes about, they that today they arm and train will become just cannon fodder and be the first to go As they are not TRUE Muslims.
Rant over for now.
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H^5 Sir.
However it is not Obama I fear, it is the next democrat in office that will ride in on the screw ups of Obama. Hard to break a precedent set by ones own party's former President.
Someone is waiting in the wings to use the Puppet Obamas set up for something very anti American.
Some times a long time conspiracy in the making is in fact true, Patience is a tool of China and the Muslims, what is 8 years or 16 years to set up a slow march on another country.
Look at England, France and Spain, inundated with Muslims that demand their Host country's change their laws to suite them. Heck the Muslims are moving into China, I believe the only place they will not be welcome is North Korea.
The number of Black Muslims in America is huge and the poor son of a guns believe the middle Eastern Muslims will except them when they take over. Are they in for a surprise if this comes about, they that today they arm and train will become just cannon fodder and be the first to go As they are not TRUE Muslims.
Rant over for now.
You are a mystery to me Vesta...one time you will make a remarkably profound and insightful post like this and another time one that is somewhat contorted and incoherent.
I do not think China will welcome them however,they are still authoritarians and have no remorse in crushing any threat to them.
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You are a mystery to me Vesta...one time you will make a remarkably profound and insightful post like this and another time one that is somewhat contorted and incoherent.
I do not think China will welcome them however,they are still authoritarians and have no remorse in crushing any threat to them.
Neither does Russia. They heavily monitor the mosques. NYPD tried this but I'm pretty sure it was stopped due to racism.
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Neither does Russia. They heavily monitor the mosques. NYPD tried this but I'm pretty sure it was stopped due to racism.
There was something on Drudge last night to the effect that the NYPD is ending its Muslim spying unit.
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There was something on Drudge last night to the effect that the NYPD is ending its Muslim spying unit.
Here it is.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/new-york-police-end-muslim-surveillance-program
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H^5 Sir.
However it is not Obama I fear, it is the next democrat in office that will ride in on the screw ups of Obama. Hard to break a precedent set by ones own party's former President.
Everyone should follow Ann Barnhardt on FB. She penned an Op-Ed that should make everyone fear for our nation.
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2014/04/13/there-is-nothing-new-under-the-sun-know-your-history/
They never knew how close they were to a dictatorship. IMO, that went unnoticed due to it being isolated events, but it was still unconstitutional as hell....and no one called him on it. Thank GOD for Truman.
BTW, Japan bans Muzzies, if I'm not mistaken.
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You are a mystery to me Vesta...one time you will make a remarkably profound and insightful post like this and another time one that is somewhat contorted and incoherent.
I do not think China will welcome them however,they are still authoritarians and have no remorse in crushing any threat to them.
Patience is the word. Muslims will indeed work on not the next generation but the next to convert the very young And with peer pressure convert others that are dissatisfied Chinese.
We in the technology part of the world expect instant gratification, no money , we get out the credit cards. Stand or wait in line, is a pisser. I hear it all the time from people that have to wait an hour to see a doctor, get their cars inspected, held up or delayed on the road or at the airport. Everyone wants something NOW, food stamps, section 8 housing, unemployment benefits. We expect our cable company's to turn on in a second, cell phones to work instantly, turn a knob and the heat or air conditioning to start up immediately.
The Muslims don't care if it takes 100 years to slowly make inroads into replacing a civilization with their faith , laws, and destroying the old .
The Muslims have an interesting sell to would be converts, a religion that allows the male to have many wives to divorce at will, a belief that a good Muslim should lie and cheat those non Muslims, and some form of sex in the after life with Virgins of either sex. I have yet found a passage in the Koran that says the virgins in heaven will be female.
Seems to be a big Sex Cult to me, come and worship my God and you will get all the nookie on earth and in Heaven you wish, become a Billy Goat and send the leaders all your money.
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(http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np6/char/modok-ugly2.jpg)
Nadin reporting from the front lines of the civil war.
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Scrunch down, there's plenty of room for all of us.
:rotf: