The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on January 20, 2014, 06:41:49 PM
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Pretzel_Warrior (6,457 posts)
Ok. the message on DU is clear. Be glad with what you might get, serf!
Yesterday, there was a link to a discussion about college degrees. Although the article was saying we're doing a disservice to the less fortunate by telling them higher education is a ticket out of poverty, the thread also seemed to veer into "education is not the key to prosperity".
Now today we have a thread saying "we shouldn't try to follow our dreams and do what we love--we should take that shitty sales job or become a garbage collector."
These are symptoms that our economic and education systems have been ****ed up for far too long.
I will be telling my son to explore many paths in life and find out what he is good at and loves doing. He should try to make a career of that and get proper education to do so. I will be telling him how important higher education is in our increasingly complex world. To me, education in college programs is a great antidote to the lack of critical thinking skills in high school and the faith-based bullshit of religion.
I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.
No matter what people say, you SHOULD look for things that interest you and make you feel good about life while paying the bills. For some, that means being a biochemist looking for new cures. For others, that may mean building homes or working in landscape design.
Do not allow yourself to be a mindless cog in the machine of capitalism.
tazkcmo (1,105 posts)
1. A college degree
A college degree is valuable not only because of the subject matter but also because it shows the holder has accomplished a long term task. I have a friend that was bemoaning the fact that he chose to pursue a degree in photography instead of something more "practical". I quickly gave him a fake kick in his private parts and told him he should be proud of his degree due to the difficulty in obtaining one and the accomplishment it represents. Besides, he'll be really famous after he's dead!
Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)
3. Everyone should have a Master's degree to haul away their own garbage.
I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.
If I understand correctly this is a (justified) broadside against the outsourcing of jobs. While I am sympathetic to the sentiment you chose a really poor example. Auto repair jobs will be located where the autos are located, not elsewhere. No one is going to drive their car to Thailand or another state or even the next county over for repairs, ergo auto repair jobs will not be moving.
No matter what people say, you SHOULD look for things that interest you and make you feel good about life while paying the bills. For some, that means being a biochemist looking for new cures. For others, that may mean building homes or working in landscape design.
Please show us the people who like crawling in sewers, digging ditches, breaking their backs in resource extraction jobs, etc. Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else.
TBF (21,572 posts)
9. Straight from the right wing capitalist playbook -
"Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else"
Well, grasshopper, maybe in a resource based economy we'd get rid of the currency and let machines do the unpleasant tasks. Instead of turning human beings into the "someone else" that has to perform all the tasks you don't want to dirty your pretty little hands with ...
DAFUQ?
Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)
11. You conjure some fiction of a world that doesn't exist just to insult me?
Please show me this world run by self-replicating, self-sustaining machines wherein no person is made to work that I have apparently stymied with a single post on the internet. Lemme guess, I'm also to be damned as a capital hoarder because I refuse to kill that goose that lays all those golden eggs.
Grow-up.
TBF (21,572 posts)
12. lol - hit a nerve, huh. Not surprised. nt
What?
grntuscarora (576 posts)
16. College should not be as expensive as it is.
Cost should not determine who can go and who cannot.
My 16 year old is hoping to attend college, and we'll help her in every way we can, financially.
I'm not concerned if the degree will result in her making a pile of money. If holding a degree will make it less likely she'll be taken advantage of by the ptb, and more likely that she'll recognize injustices and have the confidence to push back against those injustices, then I'll figure the education was worth it. How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me.
This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.
The OPs use of the term "serfs" will be sadly accurate, at this rate.
DWYL = Do What You Like
phantom power (23,405 posts)
18. The "DWYL" OP was about how "DWYL" is used to blame the 99% for their problems.
It's really just another variation on the old "poor people are poor because of their own moral failings" meme.
PW penned a stupid OP but how deranged do you have to be to call it victim-blaming?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024363439
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DUmmies want to earn a living for doing what they like even if it has no value to anyone else. hey want to be paid for existing so the college degree thing is just a mask for their true feelings.
Get a decent job or career that you can make a living and then do what you enjoy on your days off.
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Now let's not be too hard on them guys. If we didn't have primitives going to college, we'd have a whole lot of poverty stricken art, sociology and drama professors.
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I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.
Why would an owner pull jobs from a $38/hr, full bennie, UNION member and relocate to where the wage is $20/hr.
That's just crazy talk. :panic:
Pu**yWhipped just doesn't get it.
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grntuscarora (576 posts)
16. College should not be as expensive as it is.
Cost should not determine who can go and who cannot.
My 16 year old is hoping to attend college, and we'll help her in every way we can, financially. I'm not concerned if the degree will result in her making a pile of money.
Dirty Capitalist Pig.
If holding a degree will make it less likely she'll be taken advantage of by the ptb, :whatever: and more likely that she'll recognize injustices :whatever: :whatever: and have the confidence to push back against those injustices, :whatever: :whatever: :whatever: then I'll figure the education was worth it.
Oh puh-leeeze.....
How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me. This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.
Yes, so let's give people pieces of paper that aren't worth sh*t, tell them they're the bestest, brightestest, most wonderfulness humans eVAH!!! for attending classes :rotf: :rotf: that appeal to hypersexual emotionalism, indoctrinate inaccurate versions of history and require next to nothing in the way of logic, simple mathematics or problem solving. But, I take it that they will become top notch victims. Great.
The OPs use of the term "serfs" will be sadly accurate, at this rate.
You have no idea. None.
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Now let's not be too hard on them guys. If we didn't have primitives going to college, we'd have a whole lot of poverty stricken art, sociology and drama professors.
According to TBF we'll have robots doing all the hard work why not let the machines handle the liberal arts as well? All we need to do is write the perfect Bullshit Algorithm.
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According to TBF we'll have robots doing all the hard work why not let the machines handle the liberal arts as well? All we need to do is write the perfect Bullshit Algorithm.
Been done already. >>>> :jugs: :yahoo:
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Been done already. >>>> :jugs: :yahoo:
H5, Well played.
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How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me. This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.
You mean frightening like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg?
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My goodness that thread demonstrates why DUmmys are DUmb.
I bought this old dirty sock for $20 but it made me feel good to buy it. Sadly, I bought it with a 10% interest rate loan. Hey I feel good about it and when I sell the old dirty sock for well nothing, I will blame evil republicans for it. Oh and I will ask people that are sane to give me $35 for the money I lost or.... NOT FAIR!!!!
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"Mommy, Nuclear Unicorn is being mean to me! Waaaahhhhh!"
:rotf:
Of course you can study anything you want or that makes you happy. Why anyone would hire you to do that thing, what jobs in that field may pay and how many of those jobs there might be, well, those are entirely different questions.
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Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.
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Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.
So they will just vote democrat and demand more government freebies. You don't need a free college education to do that DUmmies.
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"Mommy, Nuclear Unicorn is being mean to me! Waaaahhhhh!"
:rotf:
Of course you can study anything you want or that makes you happy. Why anyone would hire you to do that thing, what jobs in that field may pay and how many of those jobs there might be, well, those are entirely different questions.
I think I found your mole:
lumberjack_jeff (27,092 posts)
22. The point of employment is *selling* the hours of your life as profitably as possible.
It's not to kid yourself that you're fulfilling a set of personal goals; employment is about fulfilling the employers goals.
I suggest to my kids configuring ones work life in such a way that you become as financially independent as possible as soon as possible. Only then can you be sure that you're following your own passion.
College is marketed two ways: a) an investment in greater earning potential, and b) a fulfilling personal quest for knowledge. If you see college as the former, then everything becomes a math problem. If you see college as the latter, then it's a lifestyle purchase, no different from a vacation or a stint in the peace corps.
If college were necessity to acquire critical thinking skills, then why are so many Starbucks baristas college graduates? Even a smidgen of critical thinking skill could make a person realize that the quality of life a $11/hour job will provide is better if one doesn't have a $400/month student loan.
And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.
Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.
**** yer' "critical thinking skills".
The infection is spreading:
Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)
20. I'm not sure who "the rest of us" is supposed to mean.
My father never got to go to college. He started working in a union as an apprentice carpenter until he became a General Contractor and started his own business. My brother never got to go to college, he went to work in the restaurant business and moved up into management. My husband never went to college. He entered the Army as a Medic right after high school and after leaving the Army he went to work servicing diesel machinery in the field.
Of my closest relatives my FIL has an MBA and he works like an animal. My MIL (now passed) had a degree in Education but chose to be a homemaker. My step-mother is a CPA, now retired.
My dad helped subsidize my college but I did take out some loans. Life's circumstances came along and while my husband is willing to pay for me to return to college and finish my 4-year degree I cannot justify the expense in my heart. I would LOVE to be a professional writer but at this point in time family obligations -- which I joyfully accept -- aren't leaving an opportunity for that pursuit. My first job during my college years was as an Administrative Assistant, not for my creative talents but because I could properly format a business letter. During the 2009 recession most of my co-workers were laid off but I remained because my boss thought I had a little moxie on the ball so he groomed me to be his assistant Project Manager. I actually appreciate the twists and turns.
I fully understand this all just anecdotal. I don't feel cheated and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who can pursue their passions (in fact my husband and my brother keep toying with the idea of opening a restaurant together because my husband is such a good cook) but the fact remains: if someone gets to pursue their passions they are indulging in a luxury that most do not get to enjoy. There's no harm in that; God bless 'em if they get to live their dream. Find your dream and chase it with all your heart and soul and be the best at it. But if people ever mistake luxury for entitlement they will only disappoint themselves and probably piss off everyone else who isn't as fortunate.
obxhead (7,518 posts)
26. I've recently discovered professional lawn care.
I work at a golf course and found that I LOVE the work. I spend every day making things grow. I get to shape that growth and see it change from day to day.
It's hard work, but I love it. I'm hoping to start turf school next fall to expand my own personal knowledge and possibly build my own company within the industry.
Will I ever get to 100k+ a year? I doubt it, but I might be able to squeak out a middle class life being my own boss.
I've heard for 2 decades that if I do what I love I'll never have to work a day in my life. That's BS, but I see the possibility of not minding having to work.
I'll certainly settle for that.
Blasphemers! The lot of them!
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Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.
Not to mention getting a degree in Womyns Studies Carl.
Hey dummies? The high paying majors are high paying for a reason... they are tough. When you get a major in Engineering, CS, Math, etc... those people do not have any problem getting a job. Wonder why that is? Think dummies, think!!!! Maybe it is because they are... well tough?
Personally I think a good portion of the people that go to college should spend their time learning a skill. Heating and cooling is a good skill. Plumbing is a good skill. My granddad on mom's side was a plumber and made lots of money. Dad was an electrician and made pretty good money. If you learn a skill and work hard, you can make good money too. Unfortunately for you dummies... you tend to forget the work hard part.
Then we got the tats and the eyebrow piercings. Yep... that is going to get you a job.
Buncha losers.
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lumberjack_jeff (27,092 posts)
22. The point of employment is *selling* the hours of your life as profitably as possible.
It's not to kid yourself that you're fulfilling a set of personal goals; employment is about fulfilling the employers goals.
I suggest to my kids configuring ones work life in such a way that you become as financially independent as possible as soon as possible. Only then can you be sure that you're following your own passion.
College is marketed two ways: a) an investment in greater earning potential, and b) a fulfilling personal quest for knowledge. If you see college as the former, then everything becomes a math problem. If you see college as the latter, then it's a lifestyle purchase, no different from a vacation or a stint in the peace corps.
If college were necessity to acquire critical thinking skills, then why are so many Starbucks baristas college graduates? Even a smidgen of critical thinking skill could make a person realize that the quality of life a $11/hour job will provide is better if one doesn't have a $400/month student loan.
And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.
Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.
**** yer' "critical thinking skills".
:cheers1:
I'm quitting the internet for the night and starting heavy drinking.
IYKWIM
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davidthegnome (2,108 posts)
27. I come from a family of Educators.
Primarily English teachers - two grandparents, a sister, a father who went to school for English, but was never allowed to teach in the more relaxed manner he had hoped to.
So I think I can safely say that I know the value of education, and I will say that it is a great and wonderful thing. I had never been so optimistic, so hopeful, so full of energy and enthusiasm as the year I was able to finally enroll in college. The idea that, finally, after years of struggling through depression, overwhelming financial struggle and so on... that I would finally be able to move forward and live better, was beyond uplifting. It was the difference between night and day - between hope and despair.
Strange that it was only last year, it feels like it was so very much longer ago, as if I were a younger, happier, more inspired person. I suppose I was, when it comes down to it. After nearly a decade of spending all of my time either working, or locked up in my room reading, I was finally out among the world again, I re-entered society in a way that moved me more than I can say, that inspired my writing to greater heights, that led to members of my family who had given up on me starting to believe in me again. I can't tell you what it's like to be told by someone who long ago gave up on you as a lost cause, that they are now... "Very proud".
I read the works of Horace Mann - and was inspired by them. I read the works of more modern academics like John Taylor Gatto - and argued passionately against them. I wrote essays that never earned less than an A - and I had not been in a classroom, had not known formal education, for more than a decade.
It was student loans and pell grants that enabled me to do this - along with significant help from my parents in getting started. I lived in a tiny apartment (more of a slum, really, it was all I could afford) that I loved, I bought the cheapest furniture I could find from local thrift stores and Catholic charities - and I think I made it look good. I, who had long been a miserable, hopeless person, had changed so completely that old friends did not recognize me anymore. I had some measure of independence, pride, self respect.. I believed I had a future.
That dream slowly came to an end. The economic devastation of this modern time, was the key factor in what brought me back down. There were no jobs available that I could work with my school schedule. The work study positions were all taken up more quickly than I would have thought possible - and I was on foot. Every day I would walk a few miles, filling out applications and hoping for a phone call. I did this for months... with the belief that, sooner or later, it would pay off. It didn't. There were too many applicants, too many struggling people - and some of them pushed even harder than I did.
Ultimately, what happened was that I ended up owing money, in addition to student loans, that I could never hope to repay - and a significant amount would have to be paid before I could apply for another semester. There were so many days and nights when I could barely afford to eat - on some I just didn't, if I got lucky, my Father or sister would occasionally take me to lunch. When I did shop, it was at dollar stores, and I survived largely on some of the most terrible junk, processed food imaginable. You wouldn't believe how far you can go with tap water and a twelve pack of ramen... not something I suggest... ever.
I remember standing in the financial aid office, begging for more help... I remember it taking every bit of determination and will power I had, not to break down sobbing like a child when they told me there was nothing they could do.
So let me say that, for the vast majority of us... hell, for anyone who is willing and able, college is a wonderful thing. Higher education is fantastic. It is just not affordable, for the vast majority of us. You can give it everything you have (and then some) and still end up just like me. Back home with mom and dad, working for 8 bucks an hour, no health insurance, no friends, no social life. My life is divided, primarily, between working, reading - and frequenting sites like DU, searching for hope, an escape, something to lift me out of my state of depression.
If this noble pursuit of higher education, of knowledge... if this is the sort of dream that should be available to all (as I sincerely, profoundly believe it should be) then something must be done. I do not know what the solution is - but I believe it lies somewhere within our priorities and principles, that we might realize that educating our people is more important than draining them of every dollar, or every working hour we can get out of them. Perhaps we might realize that a more educated populace would benefit our society as a whole - through, in turn, educating our children, inventing things, coming up with cures for diseases, or music that blows the mind and inspires the heart.
It's all about the money, Warrior. Even our system of education (particularly higher education, which doesn't really have a "free" option that I know of) is largely a cog in the machine of capitalism. The problem is... perhaps, ultimately, capitalism itself. When profit comes first, everyone loses. I know. I've lost almost everything - if not for my generous family, I'd have nothing at all. Not even a place to live.
:jerkit:
I read the whole thing.
I still can't find the part where I'm supposed to feel bad for the Proglodyte.
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Dark n Stormy Knight (1,835 posts)
30. "When profit comes first, everyone loses." Unfortunatley, not everybody.
It's those few who profit who are in charge of our world.
davidthegnome (2,110 posts)
32. I respectfully disagree.
To some extent...
In their shortsightedness, they lose, I fear, even more than the rest of us. They lose their humanity. Life becomes a numbers game, a competition to make as much as you can, no matter what you have to do, who's ass you have to kiss, or who you have to hurt in the process. Their lives would ultimately be far richer and far better if they recognized the value of empathy, compassion, generosity - of helping to lift others out of despair and poverty.
One thing I learned in my sociology class (during my one year of college) was that the suicide rate among WASPs - particularly the upper class ones, is very high, higher than those who are far poorer financially, who's lives have much more hardship. I believe the reason for this is their lack of humanity in their pursuit of financial wealth as both a means and an end.
They may be in charge of the world - but they're doing a damn poor job of it, wouldn't you say?
Proof that what Proglodytes want isn't to lift up the poor but to drag everyone else down.
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davidthegnome (2,108 posts)
I think I can safely say that I know the value of education, and I will say that it is a great and wonderful thing.
Oh, do tell, DUmbass.
I remember standing in the financial aid office, begging for more help... I remember it taking every bit of determination and will power I had, not to break down sobbing like a child when they told me there was nothing they could do.
Just like a junkie without the money for a dime bag. "But, I neeeeeeed it!" Except the junkie doesn't expect hardworking taxpayers to subsidize his heroin habit.
So let me say that, for the vast majority of us... hell, for anyone who is willing and able, college is a wonderful thing. Higher education is fantastic. It is just not affordable, for the vast majority of us. You can give it everything you have (and then some) and still end up just like me. Back home with mom and dad, working for 8 bucks an hour, no health insurance, no friends, no social life. My life is divided, primarily, between working, reading - and frequenting sites like DU, searching for hope, an escape, something to lift me out of my state of depression.
Somebody should have gone to welding school, and read Horace Mann on the weekends.
It's all about the money, Warrior. Even our system of education (particularly higher education, which doesn't really have a "free" option that I know of) is largely a cog in the machine of capitalism. The problem is... perhaps, ultimately, capitalism itself. When profit comes first, everyone loses. I know. I've lost almost everything - if not for my generous family, I'd have nothing at all. Not even a place to live.
Funny thing, capitalism. It won't pay a liberal arts shitweasel to sit around in his underwear and read Horace Mann.
And this DUmmy sees the solution, and feeeeels it is the problem. I have news for you, DUmmy. If you don't have the skill or experience an employers need to generate capital from your presence, that employer won't hire you. The corollary to that is, if you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car and post at the DUmp, don't expect to be hired by a businessman who is being ass-raped by King Hussein.
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Look primitives, if you can't make it under capitalism then you aren't going to be any better off under any other type of "ism." Best you can hope for is to drag everyone else down to your level, because you've already demonstrated you can't rise to the level of others. And should that happen, they will resent you and find ways to kill you, and your deaths will be deserved and welcomed.
.
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Look primitives, if you can't make it under capitalism then you aren't going to be any better off under any other type of "ism." Best you can hope for is to drag everyone else down to your level, because you've already demonstrated you can't rise to the level of others. And should that happen, they will resent you and find ways to kill you, and your deaths will be deserved and welcomed.
.
But Fidel gave them all rice cookers.
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But Fidel gave them all rice cookers.
Wonderful.....now who is supposed to give them the rice?
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Did I see a couple of DUmbasses dip their toes in the pool of reality? :o
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Wonderful.....now who is supposed to give them the rice?
The rich people that they taxed into annihilation.
Oh...wait...
...I don't think they thought this through.
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Pretzel_Warrior (6,457 posts)
Ok. the message on DU is clear. Be glad with what you might get, serf!
:popcorn:
Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)
11. You conjure some fiction of a world that doesn't exist just to insult me?
Please show me this world run by self-replicating, self-sustaining machines wherein no person is made to work that I have apparently stymied with a single post on the internet. Lemme guess, I'm also to be damned as a capital hoarder because I refuse to kill that goose that lays all those golden eggs.
Grow-up.
:loser:
And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.
Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.
**** yer' "critical thinking skills".
You know...that little spat reminds me of something....
But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.
Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Did I see a couple of DUmbasses dip their toes in the pool of reality? :o
Yes, hats off to Nuclear Unicorn and Lumberjack Jeff. I wish NU would just give up and switch sides already. Her husband is already there.
TBF is a big Communist bitch living in Texas, and ought to be smoked out of there.
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I'm trying to avoid coming off as a person who found the way, the only way, to prepare for life. Anyway...
davidthegnome (2,108 posts) It was student loans and pell grants that enabled me to do this - along with significant help from my parents in getting started. I lived in a tiny apartment (more of a slum, really, it was all I could afford) that I loved, I bought the cheapest furniture I could find from local thrift stores and Catholic charities - and I think I made it look good. I, who had long been a miserable, hopeless person, had changed so completely that old friends did not recognize me anymore. I had some measure of independence, pride, self respect.. I believed I had a future.
Great, sacrifice short time for the long view which is great. Who has not done this, unless of course you have rich parents?
davidthegnome (2,108 posts) That dream slowly came to an end. The economic devastation of this modern time, was the key factor in what brought me back down. There were no jobs available that I could work with my school schedule. The work study positions were all taken up more quickly than I would have thought possible - and I was on foot. Every day I would walk a few miles, filling out applications and hoping for a phone call. I did this for months... with the belief that, sooner or later, it would pay off. It didn't. There were too many applicants, too many struggling people - and some of them pushed even harder than I did.
Missing from this paragraph is "Bushes fault". So, you can't find a job that allows you to be a full time student? Solution: get a part time job and become a part time student. Weather the storm.
davidthegnome (2,108 posts) Ultimately, what happened was that I ended up owing money, in addition to student loans, that I could never hope to repay - and a significant amount would have to be paid before I could apply for another semester. There were so many days and nights when I could barely afford to eat - on some I just didn't, if I got lucky, my Father or sister would occasionally take me to lunch. When I did shop, it was at dollar stores, and I survived largely on some of the most terrible junk, processed food imaginable. You wouldn't believe how far you can go with tap water and a twelve pack of ramen... not something I suggest... ever.
The problem is, if you major in DUmbass, the only positions available are for DUmb Asses.
I have the good fortune to have a BS degree from 1981. It is a liberal arts degree but it allowed me to started moving up the ladder and I have a great job today. But I have always wanted to have a BS degree in Medical Technology. But because I was a DUmbass back in the day, I choked on the math needed for a science degree. Now, at a mid life crisis stage of my life, I've started taking classes at my local comunity college. Now in my 5th semester I'm making some headway but at 1 or 2 classes per semester it will take years. Still, I have earned 20 credits in math and science and have no debt on those credits. If there is a will, there is a way. The DUmmies want it their way and on their terms. So sad because the employment outlook for dumbasses is not good. Reading about their dispare is entertaining though.
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Wonderful.....now who is supposed to give them the rice?
That's covered in the NEXT Five-Year Plan, Comrade.
:caveman:
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16. College should not be as expensive as it is.
Cost should not determine who can go and who cannot.
Obamacollege!
It'll work......................THIS time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Didn't Hollywood make movies at one time about people who had nothing, worked, went to school at night, sacrificed, and eventually succeeded?
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Didn't Hollywood make movies at one time about people who had nothing, worked, went to school at night, sacrificed, and eventually succeeded?
Was that when there were bad guys and good guys and the good guys always won and the bad guys got what was coming to them?
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Was that when there were bad guys and good guys and the good guys always won and the bad guys got what was coming to them?
The good guys all wore white hats.....and kept their pants pulled up.
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The good guys all wore white hats.....and kept their pants pulled up.
Tom Hanks made a movie once about a mildly retarded guy succeeding in spite of his disabilities. Kind of puts the plight of the primitive into perspective, doesn't it?
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The good guys all wore white hats.....and kept their pants pulled up.
We tend to forget the huge very large number of kids that drop out of high school of one reason or another.
Some drop out to get a job flipping burgers to help the family that needs their income, others drop out due to a pregnancy, some because they are noodle headed and find they can make a living selling drugs and holding up stores. Why they would waste time in a history class memorizing the dates of Missouri Comprise is beyond them. What good does it to them in to days world to know what happened in 1846 ?
College for the ones that did graduate and are low achievers or those with no passion for a subject is wasted.
I have been a fan for years of the Jewish thought, one gets a trade they can carry on their back and only then go to College. The students by then are older, wiser and have a good idea what they wish to study. When times get difficult one can fall back on their trade until they can find an opening for them in a job that has to do with their degree.
Family's that send their children off to college face the fact their kids are only 18 or so and never been out in the world with out their protection. These kids have never had a time to grow us, to except responsibility.
So they turn the kids over to Educators they do not know but expect them to teach and
protect their students.
These kids at the mercy's of the Adult Professors and the victims of older class mates that can and do bully them.
Kids who are not in the top of their IQ and are just there to get a degree in most anything they can are be in trouble.
Unless your child is a super star in Math or Music, a whiz kid in astronomy or a medical science,-------Wait until they have a 2 year course in a trade to send them out into the world of sharks for 4 years.
People change as they age, I know of dozens of people that went to college to major in something to graduate and find they now find the study boring and want to go into another field.
I am one of those, all ways wanted to be a nurse. So I went to school, got my License and found after a few years I was not mentally prepared for the things I saw, the reality of the pain and suffering I saw and could do nothing about, was like a every nightmare to me.
So I put that nightmare behind me, no more dead body's of children or adults and went into the manual labor field, I worked as a lager on military ships, jumped into driving a school bus went into the factory field making cosmetics and finally settled down to the last job 22 years in the frozen food industry.
I have flipped Berger's and I find I have been happiest when I was able by my own work to afford to buy all 4 kids sneakers, school supplies and school clothing.
Comes a pride being able to bring home the bacon from ones work, comes a pride to be able to do a job well done.
Here in New Hampshire , we have had in the last couple years tenured professor's that have caused a problem, Every thing from exposing them selves in public to cheating on the students grades.. The Teachers union jumps in to protect the perverted teachers RIGHTS and darn if I want to pay $1500 a semester for my kid to be in their class.
Rant over, for now
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That thread keeps getting better.
First, NU was delared the winner by her fellow Proglodytes:
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #62)
Star Member oldhippie (2,475 posts)
65. Wow! As an uninvolved bystander, I'd say ....
.... you won that one by a knockout. Your opponent could throw no other punch than outrage.
And them Lady FreeDumb puts in an appearance:
Lady Freedom Returns (6,594 posts)
70. OK, adding my two cents here...
I came from a small, poor family that the Father of HATED, I mean HATED the thought of his Daughters going to school. But I fought my way to get my GED all by myself ( I was Home School starting in my 7th grade year), then through to get my B.A. in Communication.
Now has it got me to riches, no. Yet it has gave me a great gift. It has gave me an edge that many others on this side of the wage gap does not. Critical thinking, the ability to think outside the box when things get rough. Even an avenue of making some cash here and there by tutoring others that are going through the educational journey ( I am in the home of the wildcats, some do need help from someone that took similar courses).
What other things I have learned due to higher education is how to understand all the legal stuff that is on many a form one needs to fill out for assistance. I have seen many at different offices scratching their head and hope that someone can tell them what this or that means.
You may not get rich from going to school, but it will help you, give you an edge, no matter where life leads. SO GO FOR IT! FIGHT FOR IT! GET IT!
Fight for it like you'd fight for a cot at the homeless shelter!!!
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That is some of the worst grammar and spelling I've seen outside of WorldStarHipHop.com.
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Nuclear Unicorn is the hero of that thread. :cheersmate:
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it has gave me a great gift...the ability to think outside the box
Said the idiot who all but sleeps in a box under a bridge.
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They're still fantasizing about that Guaranteed National Income where anyone can just choose not to work and still receive a stipend large enough to cover all living expenses, and probably the recreation that everyone "deserves". Of course, they're almost there with the various and sundry entitlements already available, but they want one tidy check to cover everything and available to anyone who decides working for a living just isn't for them.
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the ability to think outside the box when things get rough
Yeah,finding every possible avenue of public assistance,charity and hobos willing to get sucked off for a dime.
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70. OK, adding my two cents here...
I came from a small, poor family that the Father of HATED, I mean HATED the thought of his Daughters going to school. But I fought my way to get my GED all by myself ( I was Home School starting in my 7th grade year), then through to get my B.A. in Communication.
:thatsright:
If English grammar isn't a prerequisite for a degree in communications, it should be.
Now has it got me to riches, no. Yet it has gave me a great gift. It has gave me an edge that many others on this side of the wage gap does not. Critical thinking, :rotf: the ability to think outside the box Even an avenue of making some cash here and there by tutoring others that are going through the educational journey :lmao: when things get rough. ( I am in the home of the wildcats, some do need help from someone that took similar courses).
What other things I have learned due to higher education is how to understand all the legal stuff that is on many a form one needs to fill out for assistance. I have seen many at different offices scratching their head and hope that someone can tell them what this or that means.
You may not get rich from going to school, but it will help you, give you an edge, no matter where life leads. SO GO FOR IT! FIGHT FOR IT! GET IT!
OMG....I can't breathe :lol:
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Pretzel_Warrior (6,457 posts)
Be glad with what you might get, serf!
I'll just bet that you're fine with "Take what you can, be glad, and surf" , though, right PEW?
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__cahZprhFE[/youtube]
:lmao:
CMD
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:thatsright:
If English grammar isn't a prerequisite for a degree in communications, it should be.
OMG....I can't breathe.
She writes as well as nadin, and nadin claims to have a master's degree.
They're both illiterate.
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Welfare queen gets wake up call.....is it to late to vote for the white guy? :lmao:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5wCxxUX7M&feature=player_embedded
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44th post bump
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Lumberjackoff Jeff puts some ****in' knowledge to them.
First, a recap:
lumberjack_jeff (27,110 posts)
22. The point of employment is *selling* the hours of your life as profitably as possible.
It's not to kid yourself that you're fulfilling a set of personal goals; employment is about fulfilling the employers goals.
I suggest to my kids configuring ones work life in such a way that you become as financially independent as possible as soon as possible. Only then can you be sure that you're following your own passion.
College is marketed two ways: a) an investment in greater earning potential, and b) a fulfilling personal quest for knowledge. If you see college as the former, then everything becomes a math problem. If you see college as the latter, then it's a lifestyle purchase, no different from a vacation or a stint in the peace corps.
If college were necessity to acquire critical thinking skills, then why are so many Starbucks baristas college graduates? Even a smidgen of critical thinking skill could make a person realize that the quality of life a $11/hour job will provide is better if one doesn't have a $400/month student loan.
And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.
Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.
**** yer' "critical thinking skills".
And then he got a reply:
fishwax (25,562 posts)
96. no reason such things should be mutually exclusive
That is to say, fulfilling an employer's goals and fulfilling a set of personal goals. Ditto with the investment vs. lifestyle choice--college, of course, is both. I don't think there's anything wrong with the straightforward approach you're advocating of getting as much as quickly as possible in order to become financially independent. But that, too, is a goal that most aren't going to reach until retirement anyway (if then). It's hardly a sure thing.
And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.
Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.
all of those careers tend to have (often significantly) higher unemployment rates than editors, journalists, authors, and educators ... to say nothing of engineers, scientists, etc.
lumberjack_jeff (27,110 posts)
97. "college is both"
Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2014, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)
I hear that argument a lot.
"Why should I go to college to get a degree when I can make just as much sans degree?'
... "Because college is about enriching yourself and teaching yourself how to think."
"Okay, I took your advice and now I have this crippling debt. Life is no fun because the job of adjunct professor doesn't pay any more than my car detailing job did."
... "We need debt cancellation! Jubilee! It's horrible that people can't afford to pay off their college debts!"
If college is a worthwhile investment in personal growth, then pay the bill, like you would any other. If it was a financial investment in an improved income, then stop disparaging trade schools and learn something which represents a skill that someone will pay for.
College isn't really "both"... it appears to be "either", depending on the argument to be made. It's a lifestyle choice that should be free, but should represent a good ROI, because animal rescue should pay more because you have a degree in the humanities.
fishwax (25,562 posts)
98. disparaging trade schools is a rather different issue
Unlike a vacation, which you compared it to, a college education is very likely to give you skills that someone will pay for, in addition to access to networks, etc. Even in the humanities field you seem intent on ridiculing. Disparaging trade schools is a separate issue entirely. There is nothing wrong with trade schools--they offer some advantages that traditional colleges don't and lack some of the advantages that traditional colleges offer. Consequently, they are a good option for some and less so for others. Like traditional colleges, they have increasingly relied on a debt model for student funding. And they offer no guarantee of employment.
lumberjack_jeff (27,110 posts)
99. I'm a big fan of my local community college.
Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2014, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)
They offer a great many economically useful vocational programs and a good transfer program, and it's very affordable.
What I am becoming desensitized to is people complaining how difficult it is to repay a debt related to a purchase that was sooo important for their personal growth that it was bad form and borderline rude to suggest that it should be justified with economics.
... and then to say that autodidacticism has left me with poor critical thinking skills.
That was beautiful, man.
Meanwhile, in the unicorn forest:
TBF (21,634 posts)
75. "pointless state of perpetual pissed-offedness"
Yet another personal attack in an entire string of them. That's fine, you've convinced yourself and your cooking & baking friends that economic inequality is a just economic system and you have "won" your argument that capitalism is superior.
I continue to disagree that an economic system that favors the few over so many is the way we should continue, but if that's what people in this country want then we'll pass TPP and more jobs will move overseas. If that's what you and your cooking & baking friends want that is perfectly fine - but I wonder if you have really thought that through. Are you sitting on trust funds? Are your own positions really that secure. That is not a question for you to respond to. It's a rhetorical question for anyone reading.
I feel that is not the way we should continue in this country. This is not a personal issue as you have attempted to make it with the string of personal attacks and your comment regarding caring about people. Whether you personally care about a person or not is irrelevant. The fact that you would wish upon the populace as a whole an economic system that will only make them subservient makes your intent and true feelings on the matter abundantly clear.
Nuclear Unicorn (9,912 posts)
80. wow
1. I have no idea who/what my "cooking and baking friends" is even supposed to mean.
2. I'm against the TPP and I have posted in several TPP threads that passing this trade "agreement" would derail all efforts to raise US wages.
3. Calling me a 1%er, claiming I don't care about the poor and advocate for human subjugation are personal attacks so spare us yet another fake display of grievance.
4. I still don't think your fantasy of machines managing menial and unpleasant tasks is feasible in the near future, i.e. several decades.
TBF (21,634 posts)
81. Yes, wow
Your string of personal attacks (which you decided to fling rather than discuss economic inequality):
"Grow-up"
"Do you have any critiques based in the real world?"
"You need something other than happy thoughts and a sprinkling of fairy dust to achieve flight so too it takes a bit more effort -- quite a bit really -- to run a modern society"
"That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time"
"Go peddle your fake outrage somewhere else"
"you are fabricating your outrage"
"Okay, we get it, you're outraged. It's the one thing you're good at"
"And since you're so fond of your make-believe solution -- "
"So, again, this is ginned-up outrage"
"your personal pointless state of perpetual pissed-offedness"
" with an amazing degree of inaccuracy if not outright dishonesty"
"your fantasy"
I'll give you one thing - you are very, very good at hurling insults. Excellent string of personal attacks.
But not a bit about economic theory. Not one idea of how we can ease economic inequality - other than the thought that others should clean up your messes. That would be from your initial line "Please show us the people who like crawling in sewers, digging ditches, breaking their backs in resource extraction jobs, etc. Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else"
Anyone fighting against economic inequality - they need to grow up, face the real world, not use fairy dust, are stupid, are an outrage, have make-believe solutions, more outrage, and fantasy. It couldn't possibly be that it is morally and ethically disgusting to prop up this economic system.
But now we are back where we started, after all your insults.
Let me know when you're ready to discuss economic theory.
Nuclear Unicorn (9,912 posts)
83. I stand by each of those statements without apology.
The first words off your fingertips were fake outrage. Shall I list the rhetorical barbs that you have cast, including those you made before I had even addressed you?
Again, fake outrage.
But not a bit about economic theory.
I called out your patently absurd nonsense about machines doing all the unpleasant work as such machines do not exist. You have yet to actually address that counterpoint.
You are either being hypocritical about lamenting the lack of discussion of economic theory or you have conveniently forgotten that you yourself wrote in Post #42 --
I'm not going to explain economics to you. Maybe you can have the butler google it and read it to you so you don't even have to move.
Not one idea of how we can ease economic inequality - other than the thought that others should clean up your messes.
What mess did I create? By the way, are you still paying another human being to keep your city's sewage in check?
That would be from your initial line "Please show us the people who like crawling in sewers, digging ditches, breaking their backs in resource extraction jobs, etc. Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else"
And I continue to stand by what I said. Apart from having a case of the incoherent vapors you haven't addressed the point with a counterpoint.
Anyone fighting against economic inequality - they need to grow up, face the real world, not use fairy dust, are stupid, are an outrage, have make-believe solutions, more outrage, and fantasy. It couldn't possibly be that it is morally and ethically disgusting to prop up this economic system.
Okay. We get it. You're upset. But apart from abusing your poor computer's keyboard and wishing for machines that don't exist what does that have to do with the validity of what I stated?
Let me know when you're ready to discuss economic theory.
I'm aching to see something. Where is your explanation that refutes --
A) There are jobs to be done
B) Some people cannot/will not do those jobs
C) They will pay others to do those jobs
D) Others are willing to accept those jobs and that pay even though they do not like the job involved
And since you're so fond of your make-believe solution --
1) Where are your machines that will fill these jobs?
2) Why wouldn't a capitalist prefer automatons to humans?
TBF (21,634 posts)
88. I disagree with your entire premise
Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2014, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)
because it is based upon acceptance of capitalism.
I don't accept that capitalism is the answer and so I will not answer silly questions about who should be paid to do what. I'd rather do away with currency entirely and have a resource based economy.
Nuclear Unicorn (9,912 posts)
94. Not long ago I was reading Livy, the ancient Roman historian.
Pecuniary, which means "money," derives from the Latin word for cattle, peces, because the value of the coin was roughly the value of a cow -- a resource, it should be noted.
In ancient times when a person borrowed they were required to make repayment in the form of that which they produced. For example, a grain farmer repaid his lender in the form of grain. However, if his yield was insufficient his debt remained, generally accruing interest. Currency allowed him to repay his debts by other means. In other words if grain yields were lacking he could labor in more profitable endeavors thus earning enough money to repay his debt. It was one of the reforms instituted in ancient Rome at the time the Tribunes were asserting themselves on behalf of the plebes and these reforms allowed the republic to grow by leaps and bounds as well as recover from catastrophe.
Now, I remain curious as to how you imagine a society as complex as our modern society could offer an incentive to another human being to crawl into our sewers and keep the filth from inundating our streets. I don't see you volunteering to do it nor have you invented the much-ballyhooed machines that would obviate this unpleasant task. That said, perhaps some form of currency transaction would be in order. I would personally recommend a generous wage with generous benefits (I doubt the average urban dweller has room for peces pens) and I'm willing to affect such a compensation package through the municipal tax structure.
And TBF never replied.
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Short version or TBFs lunatic ramblings...
I want stuff.
Our system doesn`t give me stuff.
Our system sucks.
We need one that gives me stuff.
Which pretty much sums up what you get when you question a leftist on their drivel,it is all hopelessly wishful thinking without an ounce of reasoning or logic.
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:thatsright:
If English grammar isn't a prerequisite for a degree in communications, it should be.
OMG....I can't breathe :lol:
Neither can I. :rofl:
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Short version or TBFs lunatic ramblings...
I want stuff.
Our system doesn`t give me stuff.
Our system sucks.
We need one that gives me stuff.
Which pretty much sums up what you get when you question a leftist on their drivel,it is all hopelessly wishful thinking without an ounce of reasoning or logic.
You're just trying to ruin her American dream, man.
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TBF (21,634 posts)
88. I disagree with your entire premise
Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2014, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)
because it is based upon acceptance of capitalism.
I don't accept that capitalism is the answer and so I will not answer silly questions about who should be paid to do what. I'd rather do away with currency entirely and have a resource based economy.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!!!"
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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TBF, you old communist bitch. You sure can dish it out but you can't take it.
What in the world has gotten into Lumberjack Jeff? His writing style was positively Bunny-esque! :o