The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on June 27, 2008, 09:58:16 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3517248
Oh my.
The location of this news story isn't clear, but I assume it's Illinois.
And isn't Illinois a blue state, near a big notorious blue big city?
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 11:02 AM
Original message
vacant lots, half finished houses, leaky basements, poor workmanship and construction waste
http://daily-journal.com/archives/dj/display.php?id=422...
Dozens of angry homeowners Tuesday jammed a meeting room at the Bourbonnais Public Library to join forces in opposition to struggling South Barrington-based Kennedy Homes, the firm they blame for neglecting their new subdivision and failing to live up to promises made when it sold new homes in Eagle Creek, among other area developments.
Kennedy is in financial trouble, according to published reports, a circumstance that seems consistent with the comments of residents here, who said they've been unable to talk to someone from the builder about vacant lots, half finished houses, leaky basements, poor workmanship and construction waste found dumped in their neighborhoods.
Kennedy is known for its ubiquitous advertisements touting "big houses, low prices."
knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not surprised.
Spec homes are often the projects contractors cut corners on (gives them more profit and no owners to sue until after the fact). If a contractor's pulling this kind of crap, shouldn't they go for his license?
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm a contractors kid and I grew up on the job site. The contractors these days are hiring....
yep you guess it ...illegals ...and they are doing very poor quality work. I've been looking at some apartments being built and see uneven block walls, un-square windows and door jams, shoddy stuckle work and the gang of illegals working there on Saturdays and Sundays.
I say they are illegal because most legit Americans would not be working on the weekends. I had a contractor who moved in next store to me and had illegals living in a shed in his back yard. He built a 2 stall garage without a permit and the city came and made him tear it down which I thought was a fitting reward. The water police came by and cited him for watering his new lawn during the daytime and on the wrong days. This guy is typical of the illegal workers and contractors. My dad won't even come down here and work because he says "they don't care if one corner of the building is 4 inches lower than the others".
sdfernando Donating Member (329 posts) Wed Jun-25-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes, lets blame it all on the "illegals"
...because everyone knows that a LEGAL construction worker never do shoddy work!
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Geeze ...another board nazi. I only spoke of what I have observed. DOH
sdfernando Donating Member (329 posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Blanket statements don't work....
You used a blanket statement: "The contractors these days are hiring....yep you guess it ...illegals ...and they are doing very poor quality work." As another poster pointed out, your logic is flawed...and the statement is patently offensive. Try replacing "illegal" with "Mexican" or "Black" and you will see just how badly you communicated your observation.
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Guess what ...I will say what ever I want and if you want to stop free speech and opinion...
you can just put me on ignore. Who made you the over lord here?
sdfernando Donating Member (329 posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And I have just as much right to point out my observations about you and your statements....and no one, not even you can make me stop pointing out calling people out regarding them. You're welcome to ignore me all you like.
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. In that case ...welcome to my ignore dungeon
ThePowerofWill (241 posts) Wed Jun-25-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. It's true.
No knock on Hispanics really, but theres been an almost 20yr trend of hiring the cheapest you could get away with. You go for the cheapest you get the cheapest work.
One example i can give is in brick and block laying. When i did this you made sure every course was level and plum, and on perfect bond. Now they only make sure every 3rd, to 5th course is checked.
I no longer do masons work because the wages have actually fallen! In 1989 i was making $18hr. Now i might get $12-14.
Raksha (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I don't blame the illegals. I blame cheap contractors who refuse to pay qualified construction workers of whatever nationality a living wage. They'd probably pay less than the minumum wage if they could get away with it--and I bet many of them do.
Well, what about cheap customers who demand low prices?
Aren't they just as guilty as cheap contractors?
Husb2Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Illegal = Incompetence
Can you prove your math is correct? That's an algebraic equation I would challenge.
Hmmmm.
One suspects the sparkling husband primitive, a real-estate magnate in Baltimore, hasn't been averse to using non-union, cheap sweatshop, under-the-table services for maintenance of his own properties.
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I didn't say that and you know it. I pointed out what I have observed and heard and that's all.
Carnea (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Illegal = Non-licensed and non-union worker.
But the sparkling husband primitive, being a cheap bastard, won't pay a contractor union scale.
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I made a living repairing the illegals **** ups.
When I was a temp probably half of my assignments was to go onto jobsites and repair and/or bring up to code the shoddy work done by illegal immigrants.
One contractor told me it was cheaper to do it like this.Hire unqualified immigrants who could not read prints to do the rough-in phase then hire locals to get it to work without burning down the building.
Of course,after he told me this we and my workmates made damned sure he lost money on the project.And I mean a LOT of money.When we finished they pretty much had to replace all of the sheet rock,insulation,repaint the walls,siding and repair lots brickwork,etc etc....
What really sucks is that most of the illegals are really nice guys who are just trying to support their families.And I totally understand why they come here due to the fact that our corporations have made it impossble for them to make a living in their home countrys.
However,when it comes to choosing sides between my fellow citizens and pawns of the pukes who bring them here in their quest to destroy the American middle class I will stand with my fellow citizens every time.
Anyone who doesn't like that can kiss my ass.
franksolich doesn't understand the boldened allegation, above.
I was under the impression it was their own governments that made life oppressive in many places.
Carnea (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. You can't say illegal.
Try a code word like non-union or Day labor.
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. That's interesting. Around here, the Latinos are better skilled than many other workers.
In any case, "illegals" wouldn't be building houses if the contractors weren't hiring them. Who is at fault?
Cheap customers who demand the lowest possible price are at fault.
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Some of my best friends are Latino and a few girl friends too. I worked for a Latino housing investor when I was in my early 20's refurbishing houses. That being said, as I said before, the guy next store to me obviously had illegals working for him and living in his back yard in a shed. The contractor was a scoff law and is taking advantage of his illegal alien workers. I blame the contractors more than those who break the law and enter the USA illegally.
It's the contractors who cut corners with the help and materials. They are employing illegal aliens because they can get them to work for much less money because they are here illegally. I think most people already know that. The 2 stall garage that the city made my next door neighbor contractor scoff law tear down was built very good.
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That is the important point - immigrants are being exploited by U.S. employers.
Why do U.S. companies hire people without documentation? Because people who are terrified of being rounded up by ICE will work for substandard wages in unsafe conditions. Think of the money saved by unscrupulous employers who don't have to pay minimum wage, don't have to pay social security, don't have to file paperwork, don't have to worry about OSHA regulations, etc.
This is a worker's rights issues. The rights of workers vs. the rights of employers who openly break the law and are protected by the Bush administration.
Why do meat-packing companies, for example, hire people without documentation?
Because the primitives, always bitching about high grocery prices, demand cheap beef.
DailyGrind51 (223 posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. What about building materials?
I have an older home and when I go to the lumber yard to purchase precise replacements for joists, posts, etc., I find that what is being sold now is slightly smaller. A 2"x4" is not really 2"x4" any more, but closer to 1 3/4"x 3 3/4". To make the newer pieces fit into where the older piece was removed, I have to use shims. I notice that a lot of "garden grade" lumber is being passed off as "construction grade" also. What are you finding available to contractors and how is this impacting the quality of new construction today?
I was never in the lumber business, but I was always under the impression a piece of wood is not actually it's stated size, that actually it's a little bit smaller. I have no idea why this is, but apparently this is something that's been going on for a century or more.
QuestionAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. there are at least 5 half-finished developments within 10 minutes of our house...
a couple of them are almost like small cities in size.
it will probably be decades before some of them are finished- if ever.
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. they tore down a small shopping center behind me a year ago.
they haven't done ANY work on it for about six months, because they can't sell ANYthing
meanwhile the property swings back and forth from a dustbowl, so I can't keep my windows open, to a mosquito swamp whenever it rains
I called the town, but they can't/won't do anything, like force them, say, too plant some grass over their trash heaps
Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. btw, my experience working with latinos was that they did better work than the americanos on the job, worked harder, and faster. I worked my ass off trying to keep up with them
my favorite phrase learned from them: vieras aqui!
QuestionAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-27-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. i'm having a garage built by danley at this very moment- the crew is mostly eastern european...
judging by the way they speak.
the concrete guys who did the foundation last week were latino though.
the garage guys seem to be kicking ass at getting this thing built.
What? Who can afford to be building a garage in this George Bush economy, the worst economy since construction of Noah's ark?
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Husb2Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Illegal = Incompetence
Can you prove your math is correct? That's an algebraic equation I would challenge.
Here is another algebraic equation for ya:
(http://tinyurl.com/yr8sya)
See how this is a much more accurate example of your math skills?
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In order for contractors to make a living, they almost have to use illegals. I blame a large part of that on over-government regulations. Try building a house in Florida and on a modest home you'll get hit with $10-15 thousand dollars worth of impact fees before you even break ground.
Let's see how many DUmmies are willing to bring that up.
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Along with gas prices doubling since the democrats took over congress, the housing crisis came along too.
There is a very simple reason for this. As investors and speculators saw that there tax burden would increase they started to sell. Basic tax economics.
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I was never in the lumber business, but I was always under the impression a piece of wood is not actually it's stated size, that actually it's a little bit smaller. I have no idea why this is, but apparently this is something that's been going on for a century or more.
Frank, if I'm not mistaken the smaller size is a result of the lumber being planed. When rough cut it is approximately 2"x4". Then it is planed down so the surface is relatively smooth.
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It also has drying to consider. When 2X4s are stacked to be dried they are 2X4. The drying shrinks the wood. Standard wood sizes have been around for years. http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood/lum_dimensions.htm
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franksolich doesn't understand the boldened allegation, above.
I was under the impression it was their own governments that made life oppressive in many places.
Everyone knows it is the fault of the US, you capitalist dog.....you oppressor of the down trodden... :-)
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-25-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm a contractors kid and I grew up on the job site. The contractors these days are hiring....
yep you guess it ...illegals ...and they are doing very poor quality work. I've been looking at some apartments being built and see uneven block walls, un-square windows and door jams, shoddy stuckle work and the gang of illegals working there on Saturdays and Sundays.
What the f*ck is stukle?
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^Probably means "spackle"..
doc
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Or stucco.
For someone who grew up on construction sites, maybe he should've spent just a little more time in SCHOOL. That way he could actually communicate with the rest of us and stand a running chance of being understood...
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^Probably means "spackle"..
doc
I was being sarcastic
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3517248
Oh my.
The location of this news story isn't clear, but I assume it's Illinois.
And isn't Illinois a blue state, near a big notorious blue big city?
You're assumption is correct Frank:
http://www.bourbonnais.lib.il.us/
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Lumber manufacturers typically cut a tree into dimensional lumber very shortly after the tree is felled. Then, the newly-sawn (but soaking wet) lumber is kiln-dried until it reaches the desired moisture level. As lumber dries, it shrinks (as the moisture in the wood is reduced, the wood cells shrink). While the 8' length won't change much as the wood dries, the 2" width and 4" height (cross-section of the grain) will shrink substantially.
Because of this shrinkage, a typical 2x4 will usually measure out to about 1-1/2" x 3-1/2". These numbers can vary slightly, but modern lumber manufacturers are pretty adept at delivering consistently-sized supplies of dimensional lumber
I'd like to know where the one joker lives that says american constructionb workers don't work on weekends .
Then there is also this: The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal law that governs consumer product warranties. Passed by Congress in 1975, the Act requires manufacturers and sellers of consumer products to provide consumers with detailed information about warranty coverage. In addition, it affects both the rights of consumers and the obligations of warrantors under written warranties.
Texas construction warranties cover three basic areas for varying degrees of time. those areas are workmansship and materials. System components & habitability.
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I'd like to know where the one joker lives that says american constructionb workers don't work on weekends .
No kidding. Americans work weekends all the time, in construction and thousands of other jobs.