The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: landofconfusion80 on November 26, 2013, 08:00:06 AM
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According to poor people, Dave don't know nothin'! (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024092723)
Liberal_in_LA (30,941 posts)
Dave Ramsey's ignorant "Things rich people do" list
They don't speak their mind
Only 6 percent of wealthy people speak their minds while 69 percent of poor individuals say what they think.
They eat less junk food
70 percent of the wealthy eat less than 200 calories of junk food a day, and 97 percent of poor individuals eat more than 300 calories of junk food a day.
They gamble less
Just 23 percent of wealthy people gamble and 52 percent of poor people gamble.
They keep planners
About 81 percent of wealthy persons keep a to-do list and 19 percent of the poor keep planners.
They exercise
About 76 percent of the wealthy perform aerobic exercise about four days a week and 23 percent of poor people do the same.
They don't just read
About 63 percent of the wealthy listen to audio books while commuting to work and 5 percent of poor people do the same.
They make their children read
About 63 percent of the wealthy make their children read two or more non-fiction books a month and 3 percent of poor individuals do the same.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/slideshow/17-things-rich-people-do-74597/photo-5437614.php
What horrible things to learn! Those evil rich people and their daily lives! I didn't see kick a homeless person, so the list is evidently lacking in some basic DU facts. It's so simple that almost anyone could do it... If you like how somebody is living, ask them how they got there, study what they do in comparison to a poor person, learn from the mistakes of others so you aren't doomed to them over and over again.
renie408 (9,525 posts)
1. I don't think he gets it, does he?
Gee, Dave, do you think the rich do these things because they can afford to?
Yea! those books on CD from the library cost money! woah, wait...
el_bryanto (5,012 posts)
7. He has a show in which he gives financial advice.
Largely conservative financial advice - which, to be fair, in some cases makes sense. Get out of debt as best you can. Stay out of debt. Have a budget. That sort of thing.
The problem is that when you don't have anything you tend to live from crisis to crisis.
He also ignores the boots dilemma.
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.â€
― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play
Bryant
Bring on the unfairness argument! Why, it would be totally crazy to buy the cheap boots, save up the money for the expensive ones in the meantime and sell the cheap ones midway through their "lifecycle" INSANITY!!!
NuclearDem (5,278 posts)
5. They crash the world economy
At least 50%* of the ultra rich held jobs on Wall Street that led to crash of the US and world economies. 0% of poor individuals had that same responsibility.
*no I don't have stats to back that number up SHUTUP IM DOING A BIT
Those ultra rich bought houses they couldn't afford with balloon rates that were unsustainable on their fry cook salaries! It was all their fault!
Taitertots (5,884 posts)
12. Based on those figures. How many poor people do EVERYTHING he associates with wealth
But will never become rich no matter how hard they continue to work?
People who know they don't produce enough to justify their wealth have to invent pseudo moralistic justifications to themselves. "I'm rich because I do X,Y, and Z"
Nope, it's all a rigged game. Saving and making good financial decisions is a fool's errand. Better to just sit in a puddle of your own filth and complain about what the other guy is doing, that way we'll have an assured outcome.
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Monkey see, monkey want, monkey buy....monkey always broke.
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Maybe, if kpete could ever form a thought in her own head, could help the DUmmies get straightened out.
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Dave Ramsey has good advice, and living debt-free is good. I do think it's still a good idea to maintain some kind of active credit rating -- for example, have a card that you buy a tank of gas on each month and pay it off at the end. Experian can't verify most people for what you guys refer to as the cACA because many people applying have either hidden from their creditors or just not used credit at all. I forgot a challenge question to get my yearly credit report, had forgotten the payment amount from my student loan paid of in 2008.
There's a difference between *having* credit and using it, though. You can still have a record like a mortgage or a car payment possibly (though I agree with the idea of trying to finance as little as possible and with the idea of a mortgage being the only real acceptable debt), but you don't *have* to run up the $300 credit card you get approved for because you haven't used credit in so long. You can pay it off before having any interest charged, and still keep your record.
IF you have self-control, at least.
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Of course they don't like Dave Ramsey, he tells people that they have to take responsibility for their financial choices.
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His advice is quite sound, there are some few points on which I can't agree based on my experience giving legal advice to people in deep crap. While it's based on absolute rules, which I don't care for as a concept personally (Since, like zero-tolerance policies of any sort, that prohibits using actual judgment to deal with exceptions when they should be made) it's also mainly written for people who have gotten themselves in a hole through bad judgment already.
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Dave Ramsey has good advice, and living debt-free is good. I do think it's still a good idea to maintain some kind of active credit rating -- for example, have a card that you buy a tank of gas on each month and pay it off at the end. Experian can't verify most people for what you guys refer to as the cACA because many people applying have either hidden from their creditors or just not used credit at all. I forgot a challenge question to get my yearly credit report, had forgotten the payment amount from my student loan paid of in 2008.
There's a difference between *having* credit and using it, though. You can still have a record like a mortgage or a car payment possibly (though I agree with the idea of trying to finance as little as possible and with the idea of a mortgage being the only real acceptable debt), but you don't *have* to run up the $300 credit card you get approved for because you haven't used credit in so long. You can pay it off before having any interest charged, and still keep your record.
IF you have self-control, at least.
Self control is the problem though, people that run up thousands in personal debt are going to be lacking in it. Best to just pay cash and keep that demon out of your wallet. The whole snowball method of debt relief actually goes against all mathematical rational, but it makes sense when it gets into behavior since you can see how the debt is winding down and you get a form of reward from that.
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Dave Ramsey has good advice, and living debt-free is good. I do think it's still a good idea to maintain some kind of active credit rating -- for example, have a card that you buy a tank of gas on each month and pay it off at the end. Experian can't verify most people for what you guys refer to as the cACA because many people applying have either hidden from their creditors or just not used credit at all. I forgot a challenge question to get my yearly credit report, had forgotten the payment amount from my student loan paid of in 2008.
There's a difference between *having* credit and using it, though. You can still have a record like a mortgage or a car payment possibly (though I agree with the idea of trying to finance as little as possible and with the idea of a mortgage being the only real acceptable debt), but you don't *have* to run up the $300 credit card you get approved for because you haven't used credit in so long. You can pay it off before having any interest charged, and still keep your record.
IF you have self-control, at least.
I don't know where to start with this so I will give credit where credit is due.
Dave Ramsey has good advice, and living debt-free is good.
Yeah, living debt free, in as much as possible is a good idea.
But...
I do think it's still a good idea to maintain some kind of active credit rating -- for example, have a card that you buy a tank of gas on each month and pay it off at the end.
I don't really understand this concept, and would gladly be trained up, but to use a credit card and pay it off monthly to maintain a credit rating? I'd just as soon not pay the interest.
Experian can't verify most people for what you guys refer to as the cACA because many people applying have either hidden from their creditors or just not used credit at all.
This alone is worthy of its own OP.
There's a difference between *having* credit and using it, though. You can still have a record like a mortgage or a car payment possibly (though I agree with the idea of trying to finance as little as possible and with the idea of a mortgage being the only real acceptable debt), but you don't *have* to run up the $300 credit card you get approved for because you haven't used credit in so long. You can pay it off before having any interest charged, and still keep your record.
This post, in its entirety is giving me a headache BUT, and I could be wrong, I just don't see a situation where you borrow money and escape paying interest.
IF you have self-control, at least.
Yeah, there's always that.
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Eagle Keeper, with most credit cards if you pay the balance in full each month you avoid paying any interest on it. If you have self control it can help you build credit, and if you have a card with reward points you can get something extra. The problem is when you fall behind and the debt starts to grow. Also, "just this time" purchases become very easy to justify when you have a credit card in hand.
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renie408 (9,525 posts)
1. I don't think he gets it, does he?
Gee, Dave, do you think the rich do these things because they can afford to?
I think you may have posted without knowing Dave's personal history, DUmmie...
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I do think it's still a good idea to maintain some kind of active credit rating -- for example, have a card...
No.
Revolving credit is the absolute worst kind of credit to have on your history - especially if it is the only type of credit. You're much better off taking out personal loans (for which you already have cash saved to pay in full) and paying them off in half time if you're seeking to build a history. Debit cards are much better for having plastic and don't require a monstrous interest rate to pay down if you can't make the payment on time, one time.
I speak of these things from experience.
Dave's principles of being debt free and paying up front for things is all part of having "financial peace"; peace that comes from not owing anyone for what you have. That his principles are Bible based should not be a stumbling block.
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Eagle Keeper, with most credit cards if you pay the balance in full each month you avoid paying any interest on it. If you have self control it can help you build credit, and if you have a card with reward points you can get something extra. The problem is when you fall behind and the debt starts to grow. Also, "just this time" purchases become very easy to justify when you have a credit card in hand.
Thanks Celtic Rose.
These are my take aways.
1) The only credit cards I've ever had were supplied to me by my employer so that I could help do their business. If it was not a business expense I didn't use it.
2) As a business model, credit card companies depend on holders falling behind, how else do they make money. Especially when you think about reward points.
3) A credit card is handy to have in a pinch but I would not use it as a mechanism to build credit as opposed to a mortgage or a car payment or paying off your doctor bills or paying your taxes.
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Thanks Celtic Rose.
These are my take aways.
1) The only credit cards I've ever had were supplied to me by my employer so that I could help do their business. If it was not a business expense I didn't use it.
2) As a business model, credit card companies depend on holders falling behind, how else do they make money. Especially when you think about reward points.
3) A credit card is handy to have in a pinch but I would not use it as a mechanism to build credit as opposed to a mortgage or a car payment or paying off your doctor bills or paying your taxes.
They absolutely expect you to fall behind. People who actually pay off their debt each month are actually considered "deadbeats" by credit card companies. If you must have debt school loans, car payments, and mortgages are much better types of debt to have. Ultimately, being debt free is the best option.
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Of course they don't like Dave Ramsey, he tells people that they have to take responsibility for their financial choices.
Exactly!
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They absolutely expect you to fall behind. People who actually pay off their debt each month are actually considered "deadbeats" by credit card companies. If you must have debt school loans, car payments, and mortgages are much better types of debt to have. Ultimately, being debt free is the best option.
You are absolutely correct. At the card company I worked at, we had customer value numbers assigned to each customer's account. That number ranged from a one to a five. If you were a PIF (pay in full) customer, it was very difficult to have any special exceptions made for your account. Those people were typically ones or twos at best.
If you were hopelessly in debt over your head, but were managing to pay a little over the minimum each month while staying current, you typically had the maximum a customer value number of four or five.
There were other rules that went along with how valued a customer was, in particlar if it was a branded account (airline cards, Disney, etc.), but those were the exception to the rule.
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Monkey see, monkey want, monkey buy....monkey always broke.
Remember, these people's retirement plan is SuperLotto...
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Remember, these people's retirement plan is SuperLotto...
I got one liberal all fired up once when I told him you don't see too many monocles and top hats standing in the lotto line at the gas station. It was determined that I hate poor people after that comment.
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Thanks Celtic Rose.
These are my take aways.
1) The only credit cards I've ever had were supplied to me by my employer so that I could help do their business. If it was not a business expense I didn't use it.
2) As a business model, credit card companies depend on holders falling behind, how else do they make money. Especially when you think about reward points.
3) A credit card is handy to have in a pinch but I would not use it as a mechanism to build credit as opposed to a mortgage or a car payment or paying off your doctor bills or paying your taxes.
You need a CC to:
1) Buy anything online
2) Rent a car
3) Book a flight
4) Reserve a hotel room
Only a fool uses a CC for anything other than for these (or similar electronic) purposes. Using a CC to pay other debt is dumb^2. Keep a small number of CCs and pay them down to ZERO every month -- no interest, good FICO, all-around credit and life goodness.
I keep both a corporate and personal Amex Platinum -- the benefits, if you use them, far outweigh the annual costs.
PS: Ramsey is right. When I paid off my prior mortgage I felt elation that was way better than sex (since this time Mrs. FD was participating). When I moved I took on a mortgage only because 3% APR is damn near stealing. The new place will be paid for in full in 4 years (always OVERPAY your debts!) Then I can call him and again say "I AM DEBT-FREE!"
My wife and I share that basic fiscal value: We HATE debt. We pay cash or we do without (except said mortgage). We have a running Car Fund where we pay our old car note to the fund so if our car kicks out, we can buy a new one cash.
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I got one liberal all fired up once when I told him you don't see too many monocles and top hats standing in the lotto line at the gas station
You do, but they are disguised as bandannas and tattoos...
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You need a CC to:
1) Buy anything online
2) Rent a car
3) Book a flight
4) Reserve a hotel room
Only a fool uses a CC for anything other than for these (or similar electronic) purposes. Using a CC to pay other debt is dumb^2. Keep a small number of CCs and pay them down to ZERO every month -- no interest, good FICO, all-around credit and life goodness.
I keep both a corporate and personal Amex Platinum -- the benefits, if you use them, far outweigh the annual costs.
PS: Ramsey is right. When I paid off my prior mortgage I felt elation that was way better than sex (since this time Mrs. FD was participating). When I moved I took on a mortgage only because 3% APR is damn near stealing. The new place will be paid for in full in 4 years (always OVERPAY your debts!) Then I can call him and again say "I AM DEBT-FREE!"
My wife and I share that basic fiscal value: We HATE debt. We pay cash or we do without (except said mortgage). We have a running Car Fund where we pay our old car note to the fund so if our car kicks out, we can buy a new one cash.
I hate to tell you this but everything that you wrote above PS is wrong, I don't have a credit card and I can do all the things you enumerated.
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I use a credit card all the time shopping on line, gas, groceries etc. There are no annual fees and I get a small refund every year. The CC companies make their money from the charge (around 3%) to merchants and, unless you negotiate, you pay the same charge when paying with cash. I have payed it in full every month for 30 years and never paid any interest charges.
Also, you are contributing to your credit rating when you pay your monthly utility bills.
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I use a credit card all the time shopping on line, gas, groceries etc. There are no annual fees and I get a small refund every year. The CC companies make their money from the charge (around 3%) to merchants and, unless you negotiate, you pay the same charge when paying with cash. I have payed it in full every month for 30 years and never paid any interest charges.
Also, you are contributing to your credit rating when you pay your monthly utility bills.
I sort of get what your saying.
The CC companies make their money from the charge (around 3%) to merchants and, unless you negotiate, you pay the same charge when paying with cash.
So...just to get this straight...if I pay for whatever with a CC the merchant pay's 3% to process the transaction and makes up the difference in on the shelf price of their goods.
That makes sense to me and makes sense of part of the business model.
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I have never had a credit card or a debit card.....American cash, I don't leave home without it.
And at my age, I think I can make it from here to the graveyard without getting either one.
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You do, but they are disguised as bandannas and tattoos...
Speaking of quality investments... Let's spend thousands to have a guy inject dye under my skin for a design that i'll probably be tired of within a couple of months.
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I got one liberal all fired up once when I told him you don't see too many monocles and top hats standing in the lotto line at the gas station. It was determined that I hate poor people after that comment.
That is hilarious, and I am going to steal it. :rofl:
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I have never had a credit card or a debit card.....American cash, I don't leave home without it.
And at my age, I think I can make it from here to the graveyard without getting either one.
If what Bad Dog has asserted and what I believe to be true you are still paying to allow merchants to cover the 3% charge to process CC transactions.
I don't think that merchants have the ability to differentiate between people that pay cash or use the card.
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I sort of get what your saying.
So...just to get this straight...if I pay for whatever with a CC the merchant pay's 3% to process the transaction and makes up the difference in on the shelf price of their goods.
That makes sense to me and makes sense of part of the business model.
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Ask any merchant, they get a check from Visa or MC minus the transaction fee every month. As you said the fee is included in the shelf price. Every now and again I see a gas station offering gas a little cheaper if you pay cash. The one caution I would add is that you have to keep a sharp eye on your account online to watch for spurious charges (4 times in 30 years) and, I don't use it to pay bills online.
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You need a CC to:
1) Buy anything online
2) Rent a car
3) Book a flight
4) Reserve a hotel room
Only a fool uses a CC for anything other than for these (or similar electronic) purposes. Using a CC to pay other debt is dumb^2. Keep a small number of CCs and pay them down to ZERO every month -- no interest, good FICO, all-around credit and life goodness.
I keep both a corporate and personal Amex Platinum -- the benefits, if you use them, far outweigh the annual costs.
PS: Ramsey is right. When I paid off my prior mortgage I felt elation that was way better than sex (since this time Mrs. FD was participating). When I moved I took on a mortgage only because 3% APR is damn near stealing. The new place will be paid for in full in 4 years (always OVERPAY your debts!) Then I can call him and again say "I AM DEBT-FREE!"
My wife and I share that basic fiscal value: We HATE debt. We pay cash or we do without (except said mortgage). We have a running Car Fund where we pay our old car note to the fund so if our car kicks out, we can buy a new one cash.
A debit card works for all of that, and you don't have anything to pay back.
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Ask any merchant, they get a check from Visa or MC minus the transaction fee every month.
I don't understand this.
Why would a merchant get a check every month from Visa (minus transaction fees)?
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A debit card works for all of that, and you don't have anything to pay back.
True, but they get to use your money until you draw it out and, you have to be careful to not come up short on a trip.
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I don't understand this.
Why would a merchant get a check every month from Visa (minus transaction fees)?
How else would they get the money you charged on your Visa card. The "check" was a term of art, it is probably done electronically.
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Debt is a four letter word.
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I got one liberal all fired up once when I told him you don't see too many monocles and top hats standing in the lotto line at the gas station. It was determined that I hate poor people after that comment.
I occasionally do $2 scratchers at the gas station, as my voluntary tax on helping people bad with math (like me) become good at math (Arkansas has their lottery going for very good scholarships which are helping many people get in and/or go back to school.
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How else would they get the money you charged on your Visa card. The "check" was a term of art, it is probably done electronically.
Yeah, duh.
I understand, you as a shopper pay with a card and Visa pays the merchant, less the 3% processing fee, the merchant makes up the 3% with shelf prices.
I can be pretty thick sometimes and I appreciate the patience.
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I occasionally do $2 scratchers at the gas station, as my voluntary tax on helping people bad with math (like me) become good at math (Arkansas has their lottery going for very good scholarships which are helping many people get in and/or go back to school.
Why not just contribute directly to the scholarships or charity and skip the middle man?
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I occasionally do $2 scratchers at the gas station, as my voluntary tax on helping people bad with math (like me) become good at math (Arkansas has their lottery going for very good scholarships which are helping many people get in and/or go back to school.
Hopefully, you have looked into exactly how much of that money actually makes it in to scholarships and who is receiving those scholarships.
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No.
Revolving credit is the absolute worst kind of credit to have on your history - especially if it is the only type of credit. You're much better off taking out personal loans (for which you already have cash saved to pay in full) and paying them off in half time if you're seeking to build a history. Debit cards are much better for having plastic and don't require a monstrous interest rate to pay down if you can't make the payment on time, one time.
I speak of these things from experience.
Dave's principles of being debt free and paying up front for things is all part of having "financial peace"; peace that comes from not owing anyone for what you have. That his principles are Bible based should not be a stumbling block.
I agree that installment loan history is FAR more important to getting approved for a mortgage or a car, the really vital things. You need a mix, and yes, if you can qualify for a personal loan already, then you have no need to get a "starter" credit card. Right now the only positives on my credit report are all of my installment loans, and a few inactive accounts that I stopped using prior to hitting my own debt ceiling -- job loss.
The Bible is a wonderful text, even for those who don't see it as the divinely inspired word of God. If everyone followed the principles in it, this world would be a far better place (though I am more fond of the NT than the OT, as most people raised Episcopalian are probably.)
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I agree that installment loan history is FAR more important to getting approved for a mortgage or a car, the really vital things. You need a mix, and yes, if you can qualify for a personal loan already, then you have no need to get a "starter" credit card. Right now the only positives on my credit report are all of my installment loans, and a few inactive accounts that I stopped using prior to hitting my own debt ceiling -- job loss.
The Bible is a wonderful text, even for those who don't see it as the divinely inspired word of God. If everyone followed the principles in it, this world would be a far better place (though I am more fond of the NT than the OT, as most people raised Episcopalian are probably.)
I agree that installment loan history is FAR more important to getting approved for a mortgage or a car, the really vital things
Ok, I had to read it a couple of times but I think she makes a point.
Edited because I tend to jump on DUmmies, but I will admit to being wrong.
Don't get me wrong DUmmie, I'm watching you.
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DUmp democrats hate Dave Ramsey because at the end of every show he says, "The only way to financial peace is to walk with the Prince of Peace, and that's Jesus Christ."
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DUmp democrats hate Dave Ramsey because at the end of every show he says, "The only way to financial peace is to walk with the Prince of Peace, and that's Jesus Christ."
He's a damn fundy prick. How dare he be divisive and mention that hatemonger Jesus, now if he mentioned the peaceful prophet, Mohamed we would have to be accepting of that.
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He's a damn fundy prick. How dare he be divisive and mention that hatemonger Jesus, now if he mentioned the peaceful prophet, Mohamed we would have to be accepting of that.
Conservatives/republicans are cheap, greedy bastards, don't you know. Jesus only wanted 10% while Mohammed wanted 20% of everything you stole for himself and then 3% more for the poor....Mohammed sure sounds like a DUmmiecrat to me.
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Libs don't like Robert Kiyosaki much either. They thought his first book's title was a come on.
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Ok, I had to read it a couple of times but I think she makes a point.
Edited because I tend to jump on DUmmies, but I will admit to being wrong.
Don't get me wrong DUmmie, I'm watching you.
I missed what you said, so we're all good. As far as Episcopalian jokes, check out Robin Williams. ;) "Catholic lite -- all the ritual, none of the guilt" is just one.