The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on November 09, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024006430
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:09 AM
Star Member xchrom (96,461 posts)
Can the Defense Budget Shrink Without Risking National Security?
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/11/can-the-defense-budget-shrink-without-risking-national-security/281288/
Every municipal police and fire department has mastered the oldest bureaucratic budget maneuver in the book: If told to cut your budget slightly, don’t eliminate unneeded positions, buy less fancy office furniture, or delay buying new cars and equipment.
Just announce the closure of an entire police or fire station.
As the Chicago Tribune reported not long ago, "'Everybody on the City Council is in favor of facilities consolidation until they start to talk about the police station in their neighborhood,’ said Ald. Ricardo Munoz, 22nd, who added that he would fight attempts to close the station in his ward.â€
Since protecting citizens’ lives is the first duty of government, public-safety functions are usually the last to feel the effects of tightened budgets. This is especially true at the federal level, where cuts to the defense budget are generally portrayed as assaults on the nation’s very existence. There are a variety of reasons to tread softly on any sort of defense cuts: You only get to err by under-defending the country once. The battlefield edge today, and even more so in the future is a product of advanced—and expensive—technologies. Those who put their lives on the line for the rest of us deserve the best equipment and protective gear, and the most reasonable pay and benefits, that we can afford.
But does that mean that we cannot cut the defense budget without short-changing national security? To hear some tell it the answer is “no.†But the Defense Department is part of the same government that most Americans abjure for its inefficiency, waste, and fraud. In fact, you can find just about everything that’s wrong with government in the defense budget. Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn, no liberal, has derided the Pentagon as the “Department of Everything†for its wide-ranging activities.
LuvNewcastle 1 hr ago #7
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:32 AM
Star Member Warren Stupidity (34,451 posts)
1. It could be cut in half twice and we would still be spending more than any other nation.
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:43 AM
Star Member RC (23,860 posts)
3. It can be cut back at least 80%, if not more, by just actually defending only THIS country.
The Chinese and Russian "defense budget" would not be as large as they are, except for us, the United States threatening their interests militarily.
There is no need for us, U.S. to have bases in any other country. There is no need for the drone program. There is no need for us to be supplying guns, ammunition and other war toys to other countries. There is little need for the NSA. This just perpetuates the perceived "need" for us to continue "policing" the world, to "Keep the Peace". What peace? War seems to follow wherever we go.
If this country is the greatest country in the world, then why don't we pay attention to what is happening to this country, its infrastructure and the people living here? Why don't we put our people first, as do most of the rest of the civilized world?
If we would stop fermenting war and discontent around the world, the world itself, would be a more peaceful place.
Karma dude, it is real.
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:51 AM
Star Member winter is coming (3,131 posts)
5. Has it occurred to them that if we stopped throwing our weight around militarily,
fewer people would be motivated to attack us? We have way more military than we "need", and end up using it to justify having it... and also to justify buying more more more from defense contractors.
Strange how money thrown at unions,unemployment compensation,food stamps grows the economy in their world but money spent at defense contractors does nothing.
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:56 AM
99Forever (6,603 posts)
6. Yes.
Drastically. And it would IMPROVE security when the sane people on this planet begin to NOT see us an empirical bully throwing our weight around.
**** you...hope yours is the first head a muzzie cuts off. :bird:
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These idiots can never look past the end of their noses.
So if you did away with defense, just how many civilian jobs, businesses and states would be impacted through the loss of defense contracts? What do they propose to fill that huge gap?
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These idiots can never look past the end of their noses.
So if you did away with defense, just how many civilian jobs, businesses and states would be impacted through the loss of defense contracts? What do they propose to fill that huge gap?
They think the "rich" has so much money that they can support everybody with entitlements and all will be well and equal doncha know?
I hear people say all the time, "Let the government pay for it." or "Get it from the government." I guess they think theres an egg-laying golden goose housed in Ft. Knox that can just magically pay for it all. Not one single person has been able to answer me when I ask them from where they think that money comes. They blink at me with a stupid look on their faces.
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How about we start with what consumes MORE of the GDP of the U.S. than the DoD budget.
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Leftists make the world dangerous.
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Response to xchrom (Original post)
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:56 AM
99Forever (6,603 posts)
6. Yes.
Drastically. And it would IMPROVE security when the sane people on this planet begin to NOT see us an empirical bully throwing our weight around.
So you think that gutting the defense budget will make all the people in the world who hate us just stop? God these DUches are so ignorant! We have treaty obligations to help other nations with their defense (Europe and Japan ring a bell?) Hence the reason some of the other developed nations have not invested as much in their militaries (as you always seem to point out).
By the way you DUmmies, democrat presidents in my experience, send the military more places than the republicans. And they give us ridiculous ROE as well. It is easy to gut the military, not so easy to build it back up. One more thing; what do Task Force Smith (total annihalation of a US regiment in Korea) and operation Gothic Serpent (more commonly known as the 'black hawk down' operation) have in common? Democratic Presidents. :bigbird:
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So you think that gutting the defense budget will make all the people in the world who hate us just stop? God these DUches are so ignorant! We have treaty obligations to help other nations with their defense (Europe and Japan ring a bell?) Hence the reason some of the other developed nations have not invested as much in their militaries (as you always seem to point out).
By the way you DUmmies, democrat presidents in my experience, send the military more places than the republicans. And they give us ridiculous ROE as well. It is easy to gut the military, not so easy to build it back up. One more thing; what do Task Force Smith (total annihalation of a US regiment in Korea) and operation Gothic Serpent (more commonly known as the 'black hawk down' operation) have in common? Democratic Presidents. :bigbird:
Never ceases to amaze me that these idiots think that if we disbanded our military tomorrow everyone would stop hating us and there'd be world peace.
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How about we start with what consumes MORE of the GDP of the U.S. than the DoD budget.
^^^yeah, that.
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The US makes the world dangerous but only since 2009.
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We cut the defense budget, draft all the DUmmies(hell, they're already on the government payroll), give each DUmmie a rock and a stick and put them way out front on the first line of defense. Maybe they'll gum up the tank tracks and slow down the enemy.
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Never ceases to amaze me that these idiots think that if we disbanded our military tomorrow everyone would stop hating us and there'd be world peace.
It also never ceases to amaze me that DUmmies don't realize that their utopia of Europe spends so much on social programs because we've been the main source of their defense for the past 70 years.
And DUmmies, isn't it amazing how the Eurotrash are cutting back because even with us picking up the bulk of THEIR defense spending, they can't afford to support the moocher class anymore?
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Warren Stupidity (34,451 posts)
1. It could be cut in half twice and we would still be spending more than any other nation.
We could say the same about the US education budget...
...only the things it produces aren't even smart enough to send to war.
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These idiots can never look past the end of their noses.
So if you did away with defense, just how many civilian jobs, businesses and states would be impacted through the loss of defense contracts? What do they propose to fill that huge gap?
They already have that figured out. Everyone who loses a job because of the cut backs could go on government assistance. You must remember that they think that for ever dollar the government doles out in welfare that $1.35 goes back into the economy. In their minds, putting everyone on welfare would make the country richer. They are very stupid people.
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I wonder what these chuckleheads are going to say when China starts throwing its military might around. I do not think there are chinese characters for "collateral damage". They will take care of thing the way we did during WWII.
The Pacific could become rather interesting in the future if we cut back on SSN's and ASW platforms.
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They already have that figured out. Everyone who loses a job because of the cut backs could go on government assistance. You must remember that they think that for ever dollar the government doles out in welfare that $1.35 goes back into the economy. In their minds, putting everyone on welfare would make the country richer. They are very stupid people.
It's not stupid.
It's done with deliberate malice and self-promotion.
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The Pacific could become rather interesting in the future if we cut back on SSN's and ASW platforms.
It already is. And the PLN is no longer the brown-water Navy it once was. Granted, it will take them the better part of another generation to be much more than a regional force, but rest assured, they'll project power to our shores much like we have for over a century.
And it won't be pretty.
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It already is. And the PLN is no longer the brown-water Navy it once was. Granted, it will take them the better part of another generation to be much more than a regional force, but rest assured, they'll project power to our shores much like we have for over a century.
And it won't be pretty.
And don't discount Russia. China and Russia have both partnered up militarily, if not ideologically.
http://www.ipcs.org/article/military/china-and-russia-the-joint-sea-2013-exercise-4031.html
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Noted economic super genius Nanzi Pelosi:
At a press conference in her home town of San Francisco, Pelosi explained that the program's multiplier effect –the amount of money generated in the local economy as the result of the subsidy– far exceeds the nearly $60 billion spent this year by the federal government and is a sure-fire way to stimulate the economy. For every dollar a person receives in food stamps, Pelosi said that $1.79 is put back into the economy.
Noted economic super duper genius and real POTUS, Valeris Jaret:
White House senior adviser Valerie Jarrett told a group of college students today that unemployment stimulates the economy.
These people formulated the economic course we are on right now. That's why we have 200,000 new jobs but 700,000 people leaving the workforce. The lowest labor participation rate in 45 years. AND for the last 4 1/2 years of recovery have seen median income go down $3000 and 9.5 million fewer jobs. All this cost was $7,250 billion in new debt.
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The Pacific could become rather interesting in the future if we cut back on SSN's and ASW platforms.
According to nadin and most of the DUmp, the Pacific is rapidly becoming so toxic due to Fukushima it hardly matters what China does.
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It already is. And the PLN is no longer the brown-water Navy it once was. Granted, it will take them the better part of another generation to be much more than a regional force, but rest assured, they'll project power to our shores much like we have for over a century.
And it won't be pretty.
There's a very good reason why Japan is wanting to develop it's own nukes.
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:???:
So let me get this right. We the tax payers forfeit some of our money to support the government. The Dept of Agriculture uses some of that money to give to agribusinesses in the way of farm subsidies.
The Dept of Agriculture also spends money to regulate agribusinesses.
The dept of Agriculture also gives money to the states for issuing food stamps.
The retailer purchases food directly or indirectly from agribusinesses. The retailer also gets reimbursed by the state for the purchases of food with food stamps.
What am I missing? There is so much bureaucracy involved, that I'm failing to see where more money was generated than was spent. :???:
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:???:
So let me get this right. We the tax payers forfeit some of our money to support the government. The Dept of Agriculture uses some of that money to give to agribusinesses in the way of farm subsidies.
The Dept of Agriculture also spends money to regulate agribusinesses.
The dept of Agriculture also gives money to the states for issuing food stamps.
The retailer purchases food directly or indirectly from agribusinesses. The retailer also gets reimbursed by the state for the purchases of food with food stamps.
What am I missing? There is so much bureaucracy involved, that I'm failing to see where more money was generated than was spent. :???:
You forget the part where they sprinkle unicorn dust on the money and each dollar bill multiplies.
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There's a very good reason why Japan is wanting to develop it's own nukes.
Japan, along with Western Europe, is another excellent example of a nation that prospered because they could put out a token force, call it a military, and then depend on the US to do the heavy lifting.
Don't get me wrong, the Japanese submariners I met took a great deal of pride in their work and their boats were damn nice, but certainly not on par with anything we or the Soviets had, and certainly nowhere near the numbers.