The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Ptarmigan on October 31, 2013, 01:42:46 PM
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Is There a Revolution Coming? Americans Finally Realize Global Capitalism Is a Murderous Sham
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3953904
This is quite a campfire at the DUmp. DUmmies gathering together and railing against capitalism. What a bunch commies! :bird:
xchrom (96,102 posts)
Is There a Revolution Coming? Americans Finally Realize Global Capitalism Is a Murderous Sham [View all]
http://www.alternet.org/revolution
(http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/screen_shot_2013-10-30_at_12.50.51_pm.png)
“Did you ever ask yourself how it happens that government and capitalism continue to exist in spite of all the evil and trouble they are causing in the world?†the anarchist Alexander Berkmanwrote in his essay “The Idea Is the Thing.†“If you did, then your answer must have been that it is because the people support those institutions, and that they support them because they believe in them.â€
Berkman was right. As long as most citizens believe in the ideas that justify global capitalism, the private and state institutions that serve our corporate masters are unassailable. When these ideas are shattered, the institutions that buttress the ruling class deflate and collapse. The battle of ideas is percolating below the surface. It is a battle the corporate state is steadily losing. An increasing number of Americans are getting it. They know that we have been stripped of political power. They recognize that we have been shorn of our most basic and cherished civil liberties, and live under the gaze of the most intrusive security and surveillance apparatus in human history. Half the country lives in poverty. Many of the rest of us, if the corporate state is not overthrown, will join them. These truths are no longer hidden.
It appears that political ferment is dormant in the United States. This is incorrect. The ideas that sustain the corporate state are swiftly losing their efficacy across the political spectrum. The ideas that are rising to take their place, however, are inchoate. The right has retreated into Christian fascism and a celebration of the gun culture. The left, knocked off balance by decades of fierce state repression in the name of anti-communism, is struggling to rebuild and define itself. Popular revulsion for the ruling elite, however, is nearly universal. It is a question of which ideas will capture the public’s imagination.
Revolution usually erupts over events that would, in normal circumstances, be considered meaningless or minor acts of injustice by the state. But once the tinder of revolt has piled up, as it has in the United States, an insignificant spark easily ignites popular rebellion. No person or movement can ignite this tinder. No one knows where or when the eruption will take place. No one knows the form it will take. But it is certain now that a popular revolt is coming. The refusal by the corporate state to address even the minimal grievances of the citizenry, along with the abject failure to remedy the mounting state repression, the chronic unemployment and underemployment, the massive debt peonage that is crippling more than half of Americans, and the loss of hope and widespread despair, means that blowback is inevitable.
I have never seen xchrom.
ejpoeta (8,854 posts)
1. when enough people are starving and losing their shirts....
when people realize WHO is responsible and that it is not the poor and old people.... and when they cut off the cable.... then people will take to the streets.
Laelth (16,257 posts)
28. Yes, those liberal (but still capitalist) countries ...
Frankly, I like "friendly face" capitalist countries. Liberalism works quite well.
-Laelth
Th1onein (7,204 posts)
110. I don't think capitalism is evil, so much as it is unbalanced by a lack of socialism and communism.
I think that we need all three. To have all of any one kind of economic system is a recipe for disaster. Just like everything else, a healthy system requires a healthy balance of several different types of economies. Capitalism, when it dominates the economic realm of any society, leads to extremes that are directly attributable to the imbalances in that system; such as the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, and destruction of the environment, and repression and the injustice that goes with it.
Look at the Soviet Union and their environmental record. The Aral Sea is largely gone because of the legacy of Soviet Union.
GreenStormCloud (11,918 posts)
4. No revolution coming. Things aren't anywhere near that bad.
In fact, things are getting better for most folks.
nadinbrzezinski (127,587 posts)
94. One thing is for sure
you won't hear about it here. At least not in the beginning.
I am oh so surprised that is still allowed, but then again we need to maintain the fantasy. Though the pushback you are getting is to be expected.
Laelth (16,257 posts)
30. From my perspective, things have been getting worse for "most" U.S. citizens for 40+ years.
That's an odd claim, GreenStormCloud. Care to explain what you mean?
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Stupid shit heads. So ready to repeat failed history, which most failed.
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Stupid shit heads. So ready to repeat failed history, which most failed.
This time, the Communists won't take over the nation. Not while I'm living anyway.
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
I'm not opposed to tariffs, IF we get rid of the income tax.
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I'm not opposed to tariffs, IF we get rid of the income tax.
China has numerous tariffs on nearly all our goods while we have practically none on theirs..I would love to see a 2-3% tariff on their goods..
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
We competed successfully in the past. Back then you paid more for American-Made, but you knew you were getting quality.
Since the unions started seeing dollar signs and made it so the workers are in charge instead of the company you pay even more for American-Made, and the quality is often less than from somewhere with 80 cent per hour jobs.
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
You really have that wrong. The wage difference is nothing compared to the regulation cost of doing business in the USA. Taxes come in third. Kalifornia admits that regulatory cost for the state alone, no federal regulations cost, is 35% of COGS. 35%!!!!!! for dead weight. That is the number one reason that business leaves the USA. Of course the highest corporate tax rate in the world doesn't help but that primarily just causes profit not to be repatriated.
I'll put it in terms DUchebags can understand. One of your friends has parents that let you eat pizza and smoke pot in their basement. They even supply Cheetos on a regular basis and pop for the pay channels on cable. Another friend has parents that don't let you smoke pot no r eat in their basement. They only have basic cable TV. The parents also spend a lot of time in the basement watching Fox News. Every other day they force you to vacuum and dust the house. Which house do you spend your time at when decent and civilized people are working?
Now the hard part; you and your friends are business, the cool parents house are other countries, and the uncool house is the USA.
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You really have that wrong. The wage difference is nothing compared to the regulation cost of doing business in the USA. Taxes come in third. Kalifornia admits that regulatory cost for the state alone, no federal regulations cost, is 35% of COGS. 35%!!!!!! for dead weight. That is the number one reason that business leaves the USA. Of course the highest corporate tax rate in the world doesn't help but that primarily just causes profit not to be repatriated.
I'll put it in terms DUchebags can understand. One of your friends has parents that let you eat pizza and smoke pot in their basement. They even supply Cheetos on a regular basis and pop for the pay channels on cable. Another friend has parents that don't let you smoke pot no r eat in their basement. They only have basic cable TV. The parents also spend a lot of time in the basement watching Fox News. Every other day they force you to vacuum and dust the house. Which house do you spend your time at when decent and civilized people are working?
Now the hard part; you and your friends are business, the cool parents house are other countries, and the uncool house is the USA.
Jukin, if that is correct then why are manufacturing co's now fleeing China in droves for even cheaper labor? China has miniscule wages and enviro regs and taxes..yeah taxes, enviro regs play a role why co's left the US but face it co's today can go anywhere in the world for the cheapest labor because the American people don't care. They never would have stood for it in the 50's or 60's..it would have been deemed unpatriotic for starters.
My neighbor worked for a high end furniture plant in NY. They shut down most of their manufacturing and moved it to China back in 2004 or so..and they were making nice profits.. They had to do it because all their competition did it and they were forced to move..
The elites and movers and shakers only want you think it's taxes and reg's that offshored co's..
We are on a race towards the bottom with a a handful of people doing well and the rest..well....
Again Jukin why are co's fleeing China in droves?
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And Jukin you cannot compare our corporate tax rate to other countries..can't compare apples vs apples.. most other countries have a vat tax which we do not have that is not computed into their corporate tax.
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Libs don't even have a basic understanding of microeconomics, let alone macroeconomics.
Once libs even begin to realize that classical economics contradict their political leanings, they just ignore economics.
Even the lib above "Th1onein" thinks that ideologies are economic systems and that it's a good idea to "mix" them.
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ejpoeta (8,854 posts)
1. when enough people are starving and losing their shirts....
when people realize WHO is responsible and that it is not the poor and old people.... and when they cut off the cable.... then people will take to the streets.
I wonder......idiot....how long are you drooling infants going to be able to blame a system that we, actually, do not live under? What happens when these poor masses realize that Socialism always fails? What will they say when they understand that parasitic Socialism must feed off of a healthy free market to survive?
Will continued freebies be enough? How long can you keep providing these opiates, in sufficient quantities, to keep them pacified?
If your little scenario was to play out, wouldn't the French be protesting against Capitalism and not the overbearing, wealth-destroying, ridiculously high taxes of the Socialists they just voted into power?
Questions to ponder, you ape-brained putz. Now, keep pulling your Say 'n Spell and figure out what you're going to spend your reduced EBT bennies on Nov 1st.
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Jukin, if that is correct then why are manufacturing co's now fleeing China in droves for even cheaper labor? China has miniscule wages and enviro regs and taxes..yeah taxes, enviro regs play a role why co's left the US but face it co's today can go anywhere in the world for the cheapest labor because the American people don't care. They never would have stood for it in the 50's or 60's..it would have been deemed unpatriotic for starters.
As my french friends would say, proofs?
My neighbor worked for a high end furniture plant in NY. They shut down most of their manufacturing and moved it to China back in 2004 or so..and they were making nice profits.. They had to do it because all their competition did it and they were forced to move..
Wait you mean the New York that has the second most hostile business climate in the USA? That New York. I would say point proven. The idea is to make the environment friendly to business. Other countries want the business. Blue states want to kill evil business but still keep that sweet, sweet tax revenue coming in. This is a major cognitive dissidence in leftist thinking. See also cigarette smokers.
The elites and movers and shakers only want you think it's taxes and reg's that offshored co's..
I actually know different. I have started up four companies and been partners in two restaurants. I know the hhell that government policies and the small people with power can and will give you. For example, my last company made high speed test equipment. We only sell that to about six companies in the world. We only sold 8-12 machines per year. We got three anal probes for sales tax by kalifornia in 5 years. That took the principals out of action (not making the machines go out the back door) for over 8 days every time. Each time we were proven correct but that sure didn't help our bottom line.
In the 1980s kalifornia was the leader of the printed circuit board manufacturing of the entire world. We made more PCBs than all of europe. That was good because we also had all the companies that made PCBs. The Drilling machines, the wet process, the automation, and all of the other specialty manufactures. I worked for one of those specialty machine makers. I was at the fifth largest manufacturing plant in the state in a supplier meeting with the state regulators. The regulators said in that meeting "We don't like your industry and will make it so expensive to do business here you will have to leave." Guess what? There are a few PCB boutique shops but that is it in kalifornia. Same thing with the textile industry here. They were unreasonable on updating for the EPA and now all those plants are in other countries.
We are on a race towards the bottom with a a handful of people doing well and the rest..well....
Well it has certainly accelerated since 2007 and then went into high gear in 2009. Socialist policies just don't bring people up. A famous man once said that socialism inherent feature is the equality of misery. See also USSR, Cuba, NK,...
Again Jukin why are co's fleeing China in droves?
Again, proofs.
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why are co's fleeing China in droves?
My brother has lived and worked in China for the last 15 years.
You're lying. Sorry.
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And Jukin you cannot compare our corporate tax rate to other countries..can't compare apples vs apples.. most other countries have a vat tax which we do not have that is not computed into their corporate tax.
I don't think you understand what the VAT is nor how it applies in a business structure.
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My brother has lived and worked in China for the last 15 years.
You're lying. Sorry.
Oh am I? Your brother better bone up.
https://www.google.com/#q=manufacturing+companies+are+leaving+china
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The problem with the whole "US has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world" meme is that it's only true in a hypertechnical and legalistic sense. Like personal income taxes in Italy or Greece, in reality, almost none of the big ones actually PAY it. Take for example GE, with its multibillion-dollar gross but paying no net Federal corporate income taxes - and a CEO who was Obama's 'Special Jobs Advisor' at the same time he was shipping factory jobs to China faster than he was moving any US-made goods overseas. There are a ton of things that make the US, and especially CA, NY, and NJ hostile to industrial jobs, from environmental rules to ADA to organized crime in and out of the unions, but the corporate tax stuff is really a red herring.
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The problem with the whole "US has the highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world" meme is that it's only true in a hypertechnical and legalistic sense. Like personal income taxes in Italy or Greece, in reality, almost none of the big ones actually PAY it. Take for example GE, with its multibillion-dollar gross but paying no net Federal corporate income taxes - and a CEO who was Obama's 'Special Jobs Advisor' at the same time he was shipping factory jobs to China faster than he was moving any US-made goods overseas. There are a ton of things that make the US, and especially CA, NY, and NJ hostile to industrial jobs, from environmental rules to ADA to organized crime in and out of the unions, but the corporate tax stuff is really a red herring.
Well for the big corporations it is but the small companies get hammered. Again as I have said, taxes is nothing compared to the regulation cost. The worst part of this is the killing of innovation. In Obama's America Apple would have never been. IBM would have paid off Obama so that no start up in Cupertino would ever have been able to start up. Hell, Obama's DHS might have had a SWAT team come in and raid the garage where Apple started.
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This time, the Communists won't take over the nation. Not while I'm living anyway.
Right there with ya. The DUmbasses think things are out of control now, Dear Leader's $100 a pound waigu beef is gonna look like $2 chuck by the time I get done making myself the most expensive piece of meat some communist bastard ever butchered.
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
Are you familiar with Aristotelian logic? A thing can not simultaneously be itself and it's opposite, or A =/= anti-A.
In any sentence where the word "but" separates two opposing points, the point to the left of the "but" is a falsehood. "I'm all for capitalism", in this case, is a falsehood. You are not "all for capitalism", because you oppose free markets and free trade.
Wanna try again?
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In any sentence where the word "but" separates two opposing points, the point to the left of the "but" is a falsehood. "I'm all for capitalism", in this case, is a falsehood. You are not "all for capitalism", because you oppose free markets and free trade.
Wanna try again?
I am glad I read your post before I commented. GMTA and all that.
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Laelth (16,257 posts)
30. From my perspective, things have been getting worse for "most" U.S. citizens for 40+ years.
That's an odd claim, GreenStormCloud. Care to explain what you mean?
What perspective would that be, Alan? Would it be the perspective of a low-tiered shyster that trolls for dork girls on D & D sites? Or would it be the greasy haired, short and skinny metro male perspective?
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xchrom (96,102 posts)
Is There a Revolution Coming? Americans Finally Realize Global Capitalism Is a Murderous Sham
Mmmkkkk, dumb ass.
The highest death tolls that have been documented in communist states occurred in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People's Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. The estimates of the number of non-combatants killed by these three regimes alone range from a low of 21 million to a high of 70 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
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Mmmkkkk, dumb ass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes
Don't you know that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot all were capitalists.
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Don't you know that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot all were capitalists.
Damn, got me on that one.
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Don't you know that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Polpot all were capitalists.
When those dudes said, "I'm gonna cap your ass", I don't think it had anything to do with capitalism.
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I'm all for capitalism but to be honest globalism has been a unmitigated disaster for the US and other western developed countries...no way can we compete with 80 cent per hour jobs...it was handled poorly from the start and not thought out well what was going to happen but the elites do not care anyway
So why was your boy Billy Jeff so hot-cock to sign NAFTA?
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So why was your boy Billy Jeff so hot-cock to sign NAFTA?
To bring THE MAN down.
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I am glad I read your post before I commented. GMTA and all that.
I am standing in the shadows of giants here, my brother.
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Is There a Revolution Coming?
Americans Finally Realize Global Capitalism Is a Murderous Sham
This delusion seems to be a running theme at DU. All of a sudden America slaps its forehead and says, "Dad Gum! DU was right all along. Communism is good, freedom is bad!" and then they grab their pitchforks and storm the capitalist strongholds.
I remember Occupy was going to convince America to follow unwashed hippies to the uptwinkles of enlightenment...if only they could block one more street. DU never realized that america was laughing at Occupy and later stopped watching altogether.
---Finally activists hit the streets and linked arms and no one was mesmerized or educated. Politicians did not obey Occupy commands. No Occupiers were catapulted into politics.
No America has not woken up to the evils of capitalism. The people are living their lives and doing family things. There is no revolution in the offing. Look at Obamacare. Everything the left touches turns to crap.
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I am standing in the shadows of giants here, my brother.
On the shoulders of the giants here !
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Oh am I? Your brother better bone up.
https://www.google.com/#q=manufacturing+companies+are+leaving+china
He doesn't have to. He lives there, or is reading and English difficult for you?
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So why was your boy Billy Jeff so hot-cock to sign NAFTA?
I have to laugh. 2, of every 5 (D)ipshits (minimum) lists NAFTA as one of the greatest ills that have befallen this country yet, the same ones will, later, give Billy Jeff cigar jobs all day long for his media constructed, Reagan-enabled prosperity that was only possible because of a confluence of a sound economic footing, the end of the Cold War and an internet/tech boom that poodle boi tried to take credit for.
Of course, that didn't work out so he moved on to "environmental issues".
Laelth (16,257 posts)
30. From my perspective, things have been getting worse for "most" U.S. citizens for 40+ years.
40 years. Hmmmmm..do you need a clue?
range from a low of 21 million to a high of 70 million.
-It would seem that murder-loving progressives are going to surpass that.
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The green energy boondoggles owebuma has embezzled money into have caused glow bull warming.