The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on October 16, 2013, 08:57:24 AM
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Well, the left would get their Civil War at least.
Samantha (6,364 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023858806
Declaration of a State of Emergency -- can President Obama issue one to prevent default?
Starting with the recognition we are still at war in Afghanistan, one would think if an economic disaster loomed on the horizon in the United States, the President would have the authority to act to preserve both our economy and our national security. The question then becomes what authority could he use that did not require the Legislature's approval. Perhaps the answer lies with a Declaration of a State of Emergency.
A preliminary review of several sources suggests that is a very real option President Obama could exercise if the debt ceiling is not lifted and the threat of default is a very real danger to the Country. Perhaps you might consider this possibility and comment.
What is the National Emergencies Act?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
"The National Emergencies Act (Pub.L. 94–412, 90 Stat. 1255, enacted September 14, 1976, codified at 50 U.S.C. § 1601-1651) is a United States national law passed to stop open-ended states of national emergency and formalize the power of Congress to provide certain checks and balances on the emergency powers of the President. It imposes certain "procedural formalities" on the President when invoking such powers.
The perceived need for the law arose from the scope and number of laws granting special powers to the executive in times of national emergency (or public danger).
Under the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 ("TWEA"), starting with Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933, presidents had the power to declare emergencies without limiting their scope or duration, without citing the relevant statutes, and without congressional oversight. The Supreme Court in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer limited what a president could do in such an emergency, but did not limit the emergency declaration power itself. A 1973 Senate investigation found (in Senate Report 93-549) that four declared emergencies remained in effect: the 1933 banking crisis with respect to the hoarding of gold, a 1950 emergency with respect to the Korean War, a 1970 emergency regarding a postal workers strike, and a 1971 emergency in response to inflation. Title V, Section 502 of P.L. 94-412 specifically exempts the statutorily authority cited in the Proclamations of these four declared states of national emergency from termination. It then passed the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to restore the emergency power in a limited, overseeable form."
Take a look at Reference #1 at the same link:
" H. Rep. No. 95-459, at 7 (1977) " has become essentially an unlimited grant of authority for the President to exercise, at his discretion, broad powers in both the domestic and international economic arena, without congressional review. These powers may be exercised so long as there is an unterminated declaration of national emergency on the books, whether or not the situation with respect to which the emergency was declared bears any relationship to the situation with respect to which the President is using the authorities"
So I took a look to see if there are any unterminated declaration of national emergency in effect. As you can see from the above paragraph (b) quote, the declaration a President is making does not necessarily have to "bear any relationship to the situation with respect to which the President is using the authorities."
THERE ARE MANY CURRENT DECLARATIONS OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY IN EFFECT.
http://speakwithauthority-jsm.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-danger-of-americas-endless-national.html
"In the past year, President Obama has signed continuations of National Emergency declarations for Zimbabwe, Cuba, Libya, Ivory Coast, the Middle East Peace Process, Sudan, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Lebanon, Significant Transnational Criminal Organizations, the Former Liberian Regime of Charles Taylor, the Western Balkans, the Risk of Nuclear Proliferation Created by the Accumulation of Weapons-Usable Fissile Material in the Territory of the Russian Federation, Belarus, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and Iran (2); nineteen in all. Nineteen concurrent "national emergencies." Most Americans, and perhaps most politicians, would be hard pressed to explain the circumstances surrounding one-third of these emergencies, let alone all nineteen. The mere existence of some of these declarations would doubtless be a surprise to many."
What are the requirements for declaring a national emergency?
"The National Emergencies Act requires the president to specify the provisions in the law upon which his actions under each declaration are authorized.
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Last year, President Obama extended the National Emergency with respect to terrorism that President Bush signed after the devastating attacks on America by al-Qaeda on September 11, 2001." (see link above).
Finally, as I was writing this thread, I found an article published by Brookings entitled "President Obama Should Issue an Executive Order to Raise the Debt Ceiling":
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/posts/2013/10/12-debt-ceiling-and-the-power-of-the-president-jackman
"It is the right of any president to declare a state of emergency and to take action necessary to protect the nation. America has a long-standing history of granting or tacitly accepting expanded presidential powers in times of crisis. As the sole figure elected by the entire nation, he is the politician to whom we turn when faced with a national emergency, and in so doing, we often allow him leeway to act in ways that protect the nation even if we would not imbue those powers upon him in calmer times."
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Once a state of emergency is declared, the President would have multiple mechanisms through which to raise the debt ceiling – via an executive order, memorandum, or proclamation, to name a few. The exact mechanism chosen, though, is of less importance than the action itself. The ultimate arbitrator of the constitutionality of the President’s actions will be the Supreme Court (notably, not Congress). Since the Constitution does not clearly state that the President cannot raise the debt ceiling in times of crisis – see the 14th Amendment argument – and the public is eager for any solution to the debt ceiling impasse, it seems likely that the courts would look favorably on presidential action to prevent an economic emergency of this magnitude.
Thus, the solution to the debt ceiling crisis lies in President Obama’s hands. He needs to recognize this as the national emergency that it is, and issue an executive order to solve the problem. Congress will get in line if he does. It’s a game of chicken, but in this game, the president holds the trump card."
Summary
It does appear there is an emergency exit from the economic default. Obviously, I am not an expert on this subject so you might know of conflicting factors.
In my opinion, I believe it is entirely possible this is a political trap for our President. If he does nothing, the House might possibly use his inaction as grounds for impeachment. He failed to prevent an economic collapse in the Country. Can't you hear the Tea Party warming up? If he does act, the possibility exists that the Republicans will accuse him of a power grab and try to impeach him for whatever actions he takes. Politically, he could be in a no-win situation.
Beyond that, if the decision to act ends up in the Supreme Court, one cannot assume that particular Court would not stoop to a political as opposed to a legal opinion. Think Bush v. Gore. The Republican party's motto in 2000 while competing in the Presidential race was "win at all costs." Assuming that is still the operative imperative, the question now becomes what will President Obama do about it? What do you think is the answer?
Sam
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Hell, I thought Obama already had imperial powers.
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Can you imagine if a Republican was president and the very thought was uttered? :panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: I can't believe what they are willing to give up just because their douche is in office.
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Can you imagine if a Republican was president and the very thought was uttered? :panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: :panic: I can't believe what they are willing to give up just because their douche is in office.
I remember a lot of threads over at DU saying Bush would do something like this to cancel the 2008 (and maybe 2004) elections, declare "marshall" law, start up the FEMA camps, blabity blah. Of course, it never happened.
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It's not fascism when the democrat party does it. Which is pretty funny because the fascists are all in the democrat party.
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... I can't believe what they are willing to give up just because their douche is in office.
Do you really think they give a flying **** about consensual government? "Democracy" is just a façade for them. They want what they want and if you don't share their vision then you are too stupid and barbaric to be trusted with power so they have to keep all the power for themselves because only they are smart enough and noble enough to wield power.
How do they know you're stupid and barbaric?
Because you oppose them.
Why do you oppose them?
Because you're stupid and barbaric.
I regret that I have come to the conclusion that the pressure they have ramped up over the last 13 years cannot be released through the political processes. They are too invested in hate. We just have to sit back and watch as they descend into their inevitable violence. I love my country too much, I refuse to fire the first shot but I swear by God's long ears I will fire the last one.
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They gave him a budget, DUmb****s, several times. He keeps rejecting them. If he can't manage to pay the damn bills with what they offer him, he needs to start cutting shit. That's how it ****ing works.
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Apparently there is some clause (in the 14th amendment) where the President can declare a constitutional crisis (regarding the debt ceiling) and pretty much take over without congressional input.
Maybe that was the plan all along....he's been pretty much ignoring congress anyway. And the stupid party once again played right into their hands.
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Apparently there is some clause (in the 14th amendment) where the President can declare a constitutional crisis (regarding the debt ceiling) and pretty much take over without congressional input.
I almost want that to happen. I dare his stupid ass to try that shit.
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I see. If a Dem is in the White House, they are okay with Imperial powers. Such stupid thinking. :mental:
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Apparently there is some clause (in the 14th amendment) where the President can declare a constitutional crisis (regarding the debt ceiling) and pretty much take over without congressional input.
It means no such thing. That particular clause was put in the 14th Amendment to settle any questions about debt in regards to the War Between the States. The language itself is not carte blanche to do as he pleases, it is instead a limitation which ensures he pays the debt first if we find ourselves in a situation like this.
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......aaaand we wonder why these imbeciles cannot understand basic economics.
I almost want that to happen. I dare his stupid ass to try that shit.
Me, too.
They gave him a budget, DUmb****s, several times. He keeps rejecting them. If he can't manage to pay the damn bills with what they offer him, he needs to start cutting shit. That's how it ****ing works.
(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002284643/5748354380_a4310246_147_huh_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg)
reThuGlIcAN!!!!!!deFauLT!!!111111arGGHHHHH!!!!!
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It means no such thing. That particular clause was put in the 14th Amendment to settle any questions about debt in regards to the War Between the States. The language itself is not carte blanche to do as he pleases, it is instead a limitation which ensures he pays the debt first if we find ourselves in a situation like this.
Hazy on it, but I believe it puts the responsibility on the President to ensure that the debt is serviced. But, yeah, no carte blanche to play Little Dictator.
Sorry (D)Ullards, wrong again.....and we take in more than enough monthly revenue to service the debt so.........
Suck on it, (D)Ummies.
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It means no such thing. That particular clause was put in the 14th Amendment to settle any questions about debt in regards to the War Between the States. The language itself is not carte blanche to do as he pleases, it is instead a limitation which ensures he pays the debt first if we find ourselves in a situation like this.
I'm only relating what was being discussed on FOX. I can't read anything with legalese and understand it.
My take is that because congress has already authorized certain spending obligations, that they can't use not raising the debt ceiling as a threat to not pay those obligations that they've already agreed to.
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How do they know you're stupid and barbaric?
Because you oppose them.
Why do you oppose them?
Because you're stupid and barbaric.
The full circular logic that they use. They think they are very smart because of that.
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I remember a lot of threads over at DU saying Bush would do something like this to cancel the 2008 (and maybe 2004) elections, declare "marshall" law, start up the FEMA camps, blabity blah. Of course, it never happened.
The DUmmies claimed all along that "The Shrub" would do all the things you mentioned, including 2004. I started lurking there in 2002 or so, and they were just as bat-shit crazy then.
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What a piker. BantheGOP was all over this back in 2010, at least with elections.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/BanTheGOP/69
Money paragraph:
In addition, the President can even declare emergencies that would preclude the congressional election cycle. Such emergencies would not have to be limited to acts of war against the US, but any number of reasons.
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I'm only relating what was being discussed on FOX. I can't read anything with legalese and understand it.
My take is that because congress has already authorized certain spending obligations, that they can't use not raising the debt ceiling as a threat to not pay those obligations that they've already agreed to.
Dori,
The 14th amendment says "Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
It grants no power whatsoever to the Executive branch.
Any attempt by King Hussein to do it would, in fact, be an unconstitutional usurpation of the powers of Legislative branch- although that has not slowed him down to this point.
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Response to pnwmom (Reply #12)Wed Oct 16, 2013, 09:42 AM
Samantha (6,378 posts)
13. I am going to save this research in case we need to look at it again
in 3 months. I hope this latest agreement goes through today. But if the Republicans ever pull anything like this again, perhaps we do have a card to play.
Thanks for posting on my thread.
Sam
Make sure to send a copy of this important scholarly research to the National Archives so it can be preserved for history.
:facepalm:
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Time and again the progressives demonstrate that they never wanted freedom/democracy. They WANT a dictatorship. Freedoms guaranteed in the constitution are just impediments to their progress.
It is utter control that they want. They will speak words like freedom, but only a fool will believe them.
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There is a Book (http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/12/18/excerpt-dominatus-a-novel-by-d-w-ulsterman/) about this out there. Obama is the head of the UN, all governments are subserviant to the UN. OK read, not going to win a prize, little bit too out there for me, but for 4.99 at amazon, why not.
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We need to scour the country to send a bunch of conservative women to congress. As every housewife (who isn't on food stamps) knows, you can't spend more than you bring in. Because we all know that if money isn't in the budget for KFC mom could whip up some fried chicken that was 10 times better.
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We need to scour the country to send a bunch of conservative women to congress. As every housewife (who isn't on food stamps) knows, you can't spend more than you bring in. Because we all know that if money isn't in the budget for KFC mom could whip up some fried chicken that was 10 times better.
They haven't made many of that model since WW2.....rare.....very rare.
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They haven't made many of that model since WW2.....rare.....very rare.
There a a few late model ones out there. We can be a little hard to find at times though. We also have households to run and that makes running for office a little hard.
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Do you really think they give a flying **** about consensual government? "Democracy" is just a façade for them. They want what they want and if you don't share their vision then you are too stupid and barbaric to be trusted with power so they have to keep all the power for themselves because only they are smart enough and noble enough to wield power.
How do they know you're stupid and barbaric?
Because you oppose them.
Why do you oppose them?
Because you're stupid and barbaric.
I regret that I have come to the conclusion that the pressure they have ramped up over the last 13 years cannot be released through the political processes. They are too invested in hate. We just have to sit back and watch as they descend into their inevitable violence. I love my country too much, I refuse to fire the first shot but I swear by God's long ears I will fire the last one.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you, Sarge... with the caveat that the dummies will be hiding under their bed when the violence comes. The MSM gives any dem president a pass. That is the thing that just really gets me. I can understand the dummies thinking their utopia will come to pass, but the press is the first thing that gets stood up against the wall. The useless parasites are the next.
History has proved this time and time again.
The founders of the greatest nation in the history of the world have got to be spinning in their grave.
Oh well. When it does happen, the parasite class will get a very rude awakening. They may eventually win, but a daggone lot of them are gonna get their ass shot off before they get sent to the gulag.
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Oh well. When it does happen, the parasite class will get a very rude awakening. They may eventually win, but a daggone lot of them are gonna get their ass shot off before they get sent to the gulag.
It would be easy to stop the insanity without any violence.
Just do what the entitlement crowd is doing. Don't work and bleed they system dry.
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Anybody understand this?
A Tyrant's Dream: Congress Cedes Control Of Federal Debt (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-on-the-right/101813-675778-president-gets-control-of-debt-ceiling.htm#ixzz2i7qNj3jF)
The bargain rushed through Congress on Wednesday night clobbers the U.S. Constitution. It shifts control over the debt ceiling from Congress to the president, in violation of Article 1, Section 8, and pushes the nation toward a slippery slope of allowing the president unlimited power to borrow.
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Anybody understand this?
A Tyrant's Dream: Congress Cedes Control Of Federal Debt (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-on-the-right/101813-675778-president-gets-control-of-debt-ceiling.htm#ixzz2i7qNj3jF)
That flipped me out when I first glanced at it. I was dumbstruck. On further research, I have found that this is a bill that cedes that only until February 8th, when it expires and it returns to the House. Effectively, It give Emperor Telewoobie his debt ceiling increase with no possible fight.
The above, of course, is just result of what I found. Need someone else to confirm it.
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They haven't made many of that model since WW2.....rare.....very rare.
Well Johnny I have one and she fits the bill so yes they are rare but they are out there.
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It would be easy to stop the insanity without any violence.
Just do what the entitlement crowd is doing. Don't work and bleed they system dry.
Dori I understand the idea of well let it collapse and we will be there to show you the way but trust me that will not be the way things will go when the collapse happens so what are you going to do do when the obama voters start looting and they start getting edgy? I know what I would do but...
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Dori I understand the idea of well let it collapse and we will be there to show you the way but trust me that will not be the way things will go when the collapse happens so what are you going to do do when the obama voters start looting and they start getting edgy? I know what I would do but...
One needs only to look at the EBT card fiasco at the two Wal-Marts in LA. No, It won't be a slow burn.
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One needs only to look at the EBT card fiasco at the two Wal-Marts in LA. No, It won't be a slow burn.
I realize that,and was asking what she thought it would be but utter pandemonium. That is the norm these days with entitlement scum so that's the effect you get.
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Even if this happened it wouldn't do them any good. 0bama doesn't give a flying rat's ass about these losers. They expected their lives to be utopia but they're whinier & angrier now than they were during the Bush administration. I think it's their racist colored glasses.
Cindie
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We need to scour the country to send a bunch of conservative women to congress. As every housewife (who isn't on food stamps) knows, you can't spend more than you bring in. Because we all know that if money isn't in the budget for KFC mom could whip up some fried chicken that was 10 times better.
Have you thought of it?
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We need to scour the country to send a bunch of conservative women to congress.
Gina is breeding us an entire congressional district.
Too bad they're all gingers.
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Gina is breeding us an entire congressional district.
Too bad they're all gingers.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: