The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: bijou on June 22, 2008, 01:59:37 PM
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UpInArms (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 09:52 AM
Original message
Food Stamps Buy Less; Families Are Hit Hard
Advertisements [?]Source: New York Times
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Ms. Johnson, 44, who works in customer service for a medical firm, knows that buying food this way is not healthy, but she sees no other choice if she wants to feed herself and her 1-year-old niece Ammni Harris and 2-year-old nephew Tramier Harris, who live with her.
“I live paycheck to paycheck,†said Ms. Johnson, as she walked out of a market near her home in Hackensack, N.J., pushing both Ammni and the week’s groceries in a shopping cart. “And we’re not coping.â€
The sharp rise in food prices is being felt acutely by poor families on food stamps, the federal food assistance program.
In the past year, the cost of food for what the government considers a minimum nutritional diet has risen 7.2 percent nationwide. It is on track to become the largest increase since 1989, according to April data, the most recent numbers, from the United States Department of Agriculture. The prices of certain staples have risen even more. The cost of eggs, for example, has increased nearly 20 percent, and the price of milk and other dairy products has risen 10 percent.
<snip>
The more than one million New Yorkers on food stamps receive on average $107 a month in assistance, which is slightly higher than the average for the rest of the country. But it is not enough to close the gap in food costs, experts say.
Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/nyregion/22food.html?...
TwoSparkles (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. The government is lying about food prices...
I am so sick of seeing these complete lies from "The United States Department of Agriculture" which indicate that the prices of eggs has
increased "20 percent" and "the price of milk and other dairy products has risen 10 percent."
Baloney!!!!
18 months ago, I could get a dozen eggs for under a dollar. Eggs on average, in my area (Iowa) are $1.50-$2.00 a dozen. A gallon of milk was
just under $2. Milk is now just over $3 a gallon. Don't get me started on cheese. Those 8 oz bags of shredded cheese are now near $3. I used
to be able to get them on sale for $1.25--and almost always under $1.75.
The list goes on and on. Produce prices are off the map.
I'm sure BushCo is screwing with the numbers again. I guess they want us all in shock, due to the prices--but feeling stupid because
we're making such a big deal over a lousy "10 percent increase."
Why are they lying about this?
Do they think that people like me don't know how to figure out basic percentages?
geckosfeet (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's the democratic congress - they won't give stubby shrubby what he wants.
Really, it's cause the bastard is still in office and Pelosi thinks it's some kind of victory to sign away the constitution bit by bit instead of handing it over in one piece.
CountAllVotes (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. gouging is what I see
Example: I went to the store and bought a 7-1/2 oz. bag of tortilla chips. They cost $1.65.
I went back the next day to buy something else I needed and checked the price (day after the flooding) and all of the tortilla chips (same batch) were marked $2.65.
I have also noticed things like smaller amounts of whatever for more in cost.
Can't win for * in this economy muchless eat!!
kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. You can AFFORD cheese????
And don't get me started on produce. They grow it all practically nextdoor, and yet I swear produce across the board is up 100-200% from a year or two ago. SERIOUSLY.
Cheese in this *economy ... :rotf:
varelse (686 posts) Sun Jun-22-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Someone is sure to weigh in soon
with advice on how this woman can grow her own vegetables in discarded soup cans, raise chickens in the bathroom, and bargain-hunt at the local farmer's markets, presumably the ones that accept food stamps.
*sigh*
kenzee13 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. yep. and how nutritious organic beans and rice with a few bitter greens can sustain life
indefinately, too. I'm guessing that you and I are on the same page when it comes to the advice given the poor for nutritious eating. I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.
varelse (686 posts) Sun Jun-22-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yup
and that's if they pay any attention at all to the poor. Either ignore poverty, or patronize and condescend to the poor seems to be the pattern :/
I love organic beans & rice with greens (especially if one of the greens is cilantro) but the fact is, even those foods are out of reach for most urban poor.
Also, gardening works better when you have space in the sun and out of reach of kids, dogs, neighbors, the city "homeless task force" and other assorted garden pests. Container gardening requires potting soil, fertilizer, a reliable source of water, shelter from extremes of temperature, and time to care for the plants. And yes, potting soil and fertiliczer are not "optional" - the dirt you dig up from the vacant lot near your rented 3rd-story apt is likely turn into sterile concrete, yielding dead seedlings and a lot of frustration, rather than bumper crops of luxury organic veggies.
and soon to hear the sound of granite being carved ...
kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. When the suggestion to grow one's own food where possible is
considered an insult, this nation is truly TOAST.
Anybody too lazy to even try, if they have a patch of ground or a patio and two hands to plant a seed with, can frickin' starve. If you try and fail, I'll pick you up any day of the week. If you need seeds, and need to borrow a spade, come see me. It's the refusal to put out the effort, and considering the use of muscles God gave you beneath your dignity, that torques my jaw.
And yes, for many years I virtually lived on beans, rice, and what vegetables and small fruits I could grow for myself. Amazing what one does to survive - actual physical WORK.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3362766
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But what about the "War on Poverty?" you mean it's not working? We have spent trillions of dillars for nothing....
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But what about the "War on Poverty?" you mean it's not working? We have spent trillions of dillars for nothing....
You'd think they'd have an exit strategy at the very least. :(
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anyone else notice that the lady in the DUmmie's OP is raising her niece and nephew? Where are the parents? Now, there could be an entirely legitimate reason. But I always wonder when I see DUmmies whine about families who can't make it and then you find out the family consists of a hodgepodge of relatives. Often with able-bodied adults not working for a variety of reasons.
Sorry, I'm so jaded when it comes to DUmmie whines. :-)
And if you go to the NYT source, you will see these snippets
But food stamp allocations, intended to cover only minimum needs, have not changed since last fall and will not rise again until October, when an increase linked to inflation will take effect. The percentage, equal to the annual rise in prices for the minimum nutritional food basket as measured each June, is usually announced by early August.
“We know food stamps are falling short $34 a month†of the monthly $576 that the government says it costs a family of four to eat nutritional meals, she said. “The sudden price increases on top of everything else like soaring fuel and health care have meant squeeze and strain that is unprecedented since the late 1970s.â€
The declining buying power of food stamps has not gone unrecognized in Washington. In May, Congress passed a farm bill that would raise the minimum amount of food stamps that families receive, starting in October. The bill, which was passed over President Bush’s veto, will also raise for the first time since 1996 the amount of income that families of fewer than four can keep for costs like housing or fuel without having their benefits reduced.
This month, a coalition led by Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. called on Congress to immediately enact a temporary 20 percent increase in food stamps. Officials at the Agriculture Department, which administers the program, say there is no precedent for such an action. Families on food stamps have been hit hard across the nation, but perhaps not as hard as families in New York, where food costs are substantially higher than prices almost everywhere else, including other urban areas, according to the Food Research and Action Center, a research and advocacy group in Washington.
Poor families interviewed in the New York area say that they are not going hungry — thanks in large part to the city’s strong network of 1,200 soup kitchens and food pantries — but that they have really felt the pinch. To cope, many say, they are doing without the basics.
She says she has stopped buying extras like summer sandals for herself, and has also given up treats like cookies and ice cream for her daughter. “I used to make all my groceries for $150 a month and then have a little extra,†she said. “Now it is, like, crazy.â€
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anyone else notice that the lady in the DUmmie's OP is raising her niece and nephew? Where are the parents? Now, there could be an entirely legitimate reason. But I always wonder when I see DUmmies whine about families who can't make it and then you find out the family consists of a hodgepodge of relatives. Often with able-bodied adults not working for a variety of reasons.
Sorry, I'm so jaded when it comes to DUmmie whines. :-)
Well going by the names of the children (I know I shouldn't but anyway) I'd guess that a substantial portion of their parents' incomes go on Columbian non food exports.
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As always, women and children are hit the hardest.......... and minorities.........and (insert own victim class here)
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So, what are we supposed to do? Increase food stamp benefits? Why cant' they do like the rest of us, and pull the belt al ittle tighter, find new creative ways to make the budget stretch? Increasing THEIR benefits just makes it that much more difficult on us!
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I went to Wal-Mart yesterday. The small block of extra sharp cheddar cheese I like was $2.58, up from the $2.50 price it has been since forever. My favorite Mexican food frozen dinner was up .18 cents. Milk was as high as it's been for the last few years. No shock or big increase. A pound of butter was $2.58, down from $2.68. I bought a dozen eggs for $1.58. They had some priced at $1.08.
Some produce was down; some was up....it's seasonal. Onions and bell peppers were down from last week. Asparagus was up a dollar, which it tends to do. Meats haven't change much, maybe a couple of cents per pound. Raw bean and all kinds of rice are still a steal.
DUmmies, bless the little goons, need to move to a more conservative area. In my neck of the woods, the overall food bill is up about 8%. That's a nickle and three pennies per dollar. Of course, the little goons can't shop at Wal-Mart because they love their phony disingenuous politics more than they love their families or themselves.
If there was a democrat idiot in the White House, the little goons would be marveling at how these same food prices are staying so low during these trying economic times.
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anyone else notice that the lady in the DUmmie's OP is raising her niece and nephew? Where are the parents? Now, there could be an entirely legitimate reason. But I always wonder when I see DUmmies whine about families who can't make it and then you find out the family consists of a hodgepodge of relatives. Often with able-bodied adults not working for a variety of reasons.
Sorry, I'm so jaded when it comes to DUmmie whines. :-)
Exactly,as with all DUmmiy rants and stories there is something important being left out of this one.
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kenzee13 (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-22-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. yep. and how nutritious organic beans and rice with a few bitter greens can sustain life
indefinately, too. I'm guessing that you and I are on the same page when it comes to the advice given the poor for nutritious eating. I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.
http://eating.health.com/2008/02/01/worlds-healthiest-foods-lentils-india/
(http://img.timeinc.net/health/i/200603/FEAHealthiestFoodsLENTILS22.jpg)
This superfood gives you protein and cholesterol-lowering soluble fiber, as well as about twice as much iron as other legumes. And lentils are higher in most B vitamins and folate, which is especially important for women of childbearing age because folate reduces the risk of birth defects.
97 cents a pound, which feeds a family of 4 at least 2 meals. Cook with a small amount of chicken, beef, pork or sausage for flavor...2 meals, 2 bucks.
It's good enough for us evil Repukes... :-)
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So, what are we supposed to do? Increase food stamp benefits? Why cant' they do like the rest of us, and pull the belt al ittle tighter, find new creative ways to make the budget stretch? Increasing THEIR benefits just makes it that much more difficult on us!
But don't you know that NEED is the only concern worth consideration? And no, you don't get to ask whose need is being considered - if the benevolent and wise DUmmies decide to feed next season's seed grain to the lazy worthless rotters who can't feed themselves, merely to keep them one week from starvation, who are YOU to question it?
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It does NOT need to cost $576 per month to feed a family of four!!!! When I had all the kids at home, it cost me $400 a month to feed a family of SIX!! Maybe I need to give some lessons...
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Jeez. You'd think getting FREE food money would be looked upon as a help. :whatever:
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Jeez. You'd think getting FREE food money would be looked upon as a help. :whatever:
Not enough free. It needs to be more. Like that paradise, Cuba.
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Most people that I knew on food stamps sold them for extra income. Not saying this is all of them.
Get a job, turn off the cable tv, put down the video game controllers, and work a few extra hours.
Now this lady in the OP sounds like a unique situation, as it seems as she is raising someone else's kids and I applude her for that. She probally does need some help....
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:ranton:
The food stamp system was SUPPOSED to be to HELP families in times of temporary economic downturn and they get off it when they get back on their feet. I've been down to the pubic aids office here... it is ALWAYS packed! Most of these people don't WANT to work.. just line up to suck at the government's teat. It really screws up the economy when you have so many people like that. They have a sense of entitlement, that's for damn sure. I work with a few who are on food stamps and medicaid. They believe "Well, I work so my taxes pay for it and it's there to help me!" Sure, for a few months or something while you wait to get your own insurance, that's fine, but these folks don't pay enough in taxes to meet that. Public Aid papers say a family of 4 cannot make more than 1500 a month. Right now, I make about that gross a month (yeah, I'm looking for a better job now too) and my wife makes a little over that. We pay about 20% in taxes out of our income, and that's not nearly enough so little Jorge and Anajeon can go to the doctor's twice a year and their parents can get 200 bucks a month in food stamps.
:rantoff:
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I dunno BC. I just went to the "yuppie" grocery store and spent $149 for about two weeks worth of food.
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Again, where the heck do these people shop?
We went to the moonbat grocery store yesterday and got a whole weeks menu for $114. This included 3 bottles of cheap cooking wine and a mineral supplement to add to the birds water (we have a reverse osmosis system, takes all the minerals out).
Moonbat grocery store? Like one of those hippy-run co-op deals?
Me, I do a lot of my shopping at Kroger's (They usually have good 10 for $10 deals) and for canned foods and that sort of thing it's either Sav-A-Lot or Aldi's. For me and the wife, we spend about 35-40 bucks a week and that's a lot of meat in there too. Chops, chicken breast, ground beef, etc.
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But what about the "War on Poverty?" you mean it's not working? We have spent trillions of dillars for nothing....
You'd think they'd have an exit strategy at the very least. :(
Yeah. I guess we'll just have to cut off the funding to end it.
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Not enough free. It needs to be more. Like that paradise, Cuba.
Actually, deprivation in Fidel's paradise might be the reason Cubans live longer.
And the Cubans actually do appear to live longer, and are trimmer and fitter, despite the practices of socialist paradises to exaggerate statistics.
I dunno where I read that--perhaps the weekly Morbidity & Mortality Report, or something like it--but it concluded the longevity of Cubans is due to (a) low-calorie diets because of food shortages and (b) exercise due to that Cubans generally have to walk everywhere, instead of drive (apparently the "average" Cuban, both urban and rural, walks miles and miles and miles and miles every day).
There's probably a third reason, (c) the lack of pharmaceutical drugs in this system of "free medical care for all," but no scientific journal is going to dare mention that.
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Someone's receiving WIC, if not her the parent of her 'neice and nephew'. That pays the full cost of milk and eggs so to figure it in food stamps is disingenuous at best. For 2 children, she'd be getting a few gallon of milk and a few dozen eggs a month in a addition to cereal, cheese, and juice. That should cut substantially into that budget and it lasts until the children are 5 years old. I hate when liberals give only part of the picture. As for the other, everyone is feeling the crunch...it's not fair to come down harder on middle class families also struggling to meet their bills with their OWN money to fund those another notch down the income ladder. People have to start taking responsibility for this. If that means eating mac and cheese and hot dogs for a few months until things improve..so be it. Many folks here who have parents who had things like that as a staple until their situation improved.
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18 months ago, I could get a dozen eggs for under a dollar. Eggs on average, in my area (Iowa) are $1.50-$2.00 a dozen. A gallon of milk was
just under $2. Milk is now just over $3 a gallon. Don't get me started on cheese. Those 8 oz bags of shredded cheese are now near $3. I used
to be able to get them on sale for $1.25--and almost always under $1.75.
Liar! I live in an area(Ohio) that I think has relatively lower prices for years on eggs and milk and we didn't get them that cheap except on sale when things were better. A dozen eggs ran more like 1.25 and milk around 2.50. They have gone up to about 1.50 and 2.79-2.99. I can get eggs for a good price from Walmart for 18 eggs instead of the dozen and milk is usually on sale somewhere for 2.40-2.50...sometimes I even get it for 1.99 still at a local drugstore here.
Since his/her prices were below mine before prices have increased, how they jumped so dramatically above even our most expensive grocery store prices here is beyond me. And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint. Libs, if you want a discussion, address the issues honestly!
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So, what are we supposed to do? Increase food stamp benefits? Why cant' they do like the rest of us, and pull the belt al ittle tighter, find new creative ways to make the budget stretch? Increasing THEIR benefits just makes it that much more difficult on us!
Shame on you, flame! Don't you know that Cookie Crisp and frozen french fries and hot dogs are a necessity...no a right for lower income people? Shame on you, I say! :-)
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And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.
Whoa, madam.
I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.
Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.
But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.
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And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.
Whoa, madam.
I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.
Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.
But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.
I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.
I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.
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And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.
Whoa, madam.
I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.
Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.
But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.
I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.
I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.
This is a European problem too. Food prices here in the UK are going up sharply and also on mainland Europe. I posted this 'elsewhere' but it got no interest: http://s.wsj.net/article/SB121243244206838679.html
ROME -- The United Nations hosts a global summit in Rome today to discuss a food-price crisis that has triggered riots in poor countries and toppled Haiti's government. But the land of saltimbocca alla romana has food troubles of its own.
And they are hitting Ernesta Santirocco in the form of soaring pasta prices, which her $678 pension can't cover, she complains. Leaving one of the German Lidl discount grocery stores packed with cheaper, processed foods, she notes -- not very proudly -- that her shopping bags contain "schifezze," Italian for disgusting things.
They are also unhealthy. The soaring costs of pasta, bread, fruit and vegetables are making Italy's famed Mediterranean diet harder to afford in a country that prides itself on its healthy cuisine. Italians, in turn, are dining more on cheap processed foods high in fat, sugar and salt. The consumption of those foods may be accelerating a trend toward higher levels of diabetes and heart disease, while starkly clarifying the supersized cost of good health.
Some, noting that obesity rates among low-income families have soared in the U.S. and Europe, fret that fewer people can afford the fruits and vegetables that lead to better health. Such fresh foods are more susceptible to rises in commodity prices, such as energy, which make up a smaller percentage of costs in processed foods.
...
It is a complex issue and I suspect part of the variations you find in the US (as in taking Europe as a whole) is simply that of what is produced in the local economy added in to the biofuel caused shortage of grain, in that a sharp increase in demand can't be instantly met causing higher prices for some goods.
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I've changed some of my shopping habits. But nothing I wasn't willing to do already. I've just started paying attention to the store sales, going to multiple locations, clipping more coupons, watching the "buy one, get one free" sales, grabbing the loss leaders, stocking up and freezing more, etc..I have seen an inscrease in the food expenses but nothing we can't handle by doing the things above. The positive to this issue is that it's forced me to economize consistently. Something I had not been doing for a while because food prices were at consistent low levels for years. I didn't menu plan extensively, I would just go shopping with a handful of coupons and buy what we wanted. I still do that but now I also pay more attention to the discounts and plan a little further. It's all evening out so far.
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And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.
Whoa, madam.
I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.
Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.
But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.
I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.
I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.
Liberals see the glass as completely empty, and they want everyone else to see it empty too. It isn't a kneejerk reaction. It's telling lies to promote a socialist agenda.
Normal people see a situation for what it is and are usually able to keep it in prospective. Are food prices going up? You bet'chur Wheaties. Energy prices effect everything. Is it "out of control"? No. Do normal people have to fight the liberal agenda at every turn? Yes. Normal people responding to manufactured liberal hysteria is not kneejerk either. It is the necessary antedote to their madness.
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I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.
Umm, can someone explain that one to me? How is that "systemic"?
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A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.
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I'm all for gardens, organic, non-processed food, etc. too, but the barriers to poor/low-income households eating well are mostly systemic, and I find such advice not only ludicrous but condescending.
Umm, can someone explain that one to me? How is that "systemic"?
Translation: "It tough to grow stuff in asphalt"
doc
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DUmmies, I'm truly sorry, but I can't swallow this much B.S. in one sitting.
Here's why. The first year I moved to my present location, for employment reasons, I had to live on approx $30 a MONTH food-wise (my cost of living went up alot). I learned to shop at the Grocery Outlet, and live on spagetti sauce and cheap bread.
Many times, while waiting in line to check out, there was always a "welfare momma". Usually 300lbs +, with 3-4 kids, yelling, screaming, and generally being obnoxious. They would have an entire cart FILLED with food, usually junk food. Cakes, ice cream, snack foods. You name it, they had it. They would then whip out the food stamps, and usually the bill would be $150+, in 1990 dollars.
Meanwhile I'm working, and trying to figure out how to survive the month. All I could think of was "these pigs live better than I do off my taxes".
It forever made me a Conservative, so that everytime I hear/read this BULLSHIT, I know it for what it is. :bird:
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A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.
Well, what they were saying is that they got one REAL meal a day at school. The parents stuffed them otherwise on food stamp bought junk at home or the kids were left to eat what they want. You ALWAYS have to read between the lines in these stories, particularly when you have picture evidence to go on. I've made the argument before that food stamp $$ should actually be REDUCED during the school year if the child is getting free breakfast and lunch too. What does the family need the extra money for if the child is getting fed for free at the school on weekdays?
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And I don't mind having this discussion, unlike a handful of other conservatives, because I do believe prices have gone up and your average American does feel it, even if it does not cause them sharp changes to their lifestyle, but I just despise when either side lies or distorts the facts to benefit their viewpoint.
Whoa, madam.
I recall this had bothered you some months ago, that no one here had seemed concerned about high grocery prices.
Of course everybody here is concerned about high grocery (and gasoline) prices; it's hurt us all.
But it seems to me the brunt of most of those discussions was on (a) the primitive propensity to stretchyize; to exaggerate and add details that aren't true and (b) the primitives' voluntarily helplessness to deal with the issue; the primitives want George Bush to take care of them, rather than they taking care of themselves.
I am speaking of conservatives as a whole, frank and some of the things I have observed. While it is true that liberals are prone to lying about the extent of the problem, conservatives can sometimes be prone to dismissing the same problems out of hand, perhaps to be automatically thorny to the liberal rants. I don't care for either knee jerk.
I recognize where the discussion went and I don't see a thing wrong with adding another wrinkle to it. Perhaps me coming late to the party made it seem 'odd' or perhaps I've just grown weary of message boards. Probably a little of both, I suspect.
Liberals see the glass as completely empty, and they want everyone else to see it empty too. It isn't a kneejerk reaction. It's telling lies to promote a socialist agenda.
Normal people see a situation for what it is and are usually able to keep it in prospective. Are food prices going up? You bet'chur Wheaties. Energy prices effect everything. Is it "out of control"? No. Do normal people have to fight the liberal agenda at every turn? Yes. Normal people responding to manufactured liberal hysteria is not kneejerk either. It is the necessary antedote to their madness.
I agree Undies and this is the attitude I take, however I also acknowledge we have peeps on our side that like to put their head in the sand. Problems never get worked on if all we are is countering hysterical liberal arguments with the conservative equivalent of pretending there is not some truth in there and offering it. I wish I felt comfortable enough to post my speech I made on healthcare to give an idea what I mean. I'm against a socialized system, of course, but I did not dismiss the problems inherent in the current system to dismiss socialized system. I showed the flaws inherent in that system as well and left it to individuals to decide if they preferred a flawed system with options or a flawed system where they had none under socialized medicine. BTW, it was a successful speech and that came from many of the liberals who supported it.
There is a way to counteract their hysterical nonsense without throwing the issue out entirely. You brought up one way--to put the increases in perspective. I do that by discussing the reasons behind the gas increases...the bubble that exists among the futures and how that works. Most people are open to hearing the reasons so they can understand it and know there is hope and that waiting it out and riding the cycle and conserving where they can is a far better option then coming up with ridiculous nonsensical laws meant to protect politicians from poor policies. Hope this made sense, getting ready to take my decreasing hiney to the gym in a minute so I'm putting on socks and debating all at the same time. :-) I is talented like that. :-)
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DUmmies, I'm truly sorry, but I can't swallow this much B.S. in one sitting.
Here's why. The first year I moved to my present location, for employment reasons, I had to live on approx $30 a MONTH food-wise (my cost of living went up alot). I learned to shop at the Grocery Outlet, and live on spagetti sauce and cheap bread.
Many times, while waiting in line to check out, there was always a "welfare momma". Usually 300lbs +, with 3-4 kids, yelling, screaming, and generally being obnoxious. They would have an entire cart FILLED with food, usually junk food. Cakes, ice cream, snack foods. You name it, they had it. They would then whip out the food stamps, and usually the bill would be $150+, in 1990 dollars.
Meanwhile I'm working, and trying to figure out how to survive the month. All I could think of was "these pigs live better than I do off my taxes".
It forever made me a Conservative, so that everytime I hear/read this BULLSHIT, I know it for what it is. :bird:
I've seen that more than I care to remember....working at a convenience store, the same families come in day after day and buy 12 pk of soda, etc, and (back when fodd stamps were paper bills) would send their kids in one at a time, each with a $1 FS to buy a 10cent candy, then they would take the change from those transactions and buy beer or cigarettes. The only time I ever got in trouble working there (by the district people, not my manager) is because I wouldn't give out more than 90 cents in change if I knew it was the same family.
Meantime, I was surviving on write-off burritos and hotdogs from work.
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A couple months ago I watched this TV reporter do a story on these poor kids that only get one hot meal a day at school. All of the 10 black kids that they showed in the classroom were porkers; not a slim, trim one in the bunch. These kids could miss a bunch of meals and live off their fat.
Yeah, I've noticed that too. A lot of the "poor" people on food stamps, WIC, etc. are pretty damn overweight. Spending it all on Twinkies I suppose?
And yes, Wineslob, people used to do that before they issued out "debit cards" for food stamps. Buy a pack of gum for 25 cents with a 5 dollar food stamp, go in the liquor store next door and buy a couple "fawties". Pathetic.
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You know, when the food stamps program was first devised during the administration of Lyndon Johnson, it was intended to help two groups--the farmers (and hence the program was administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, not by welfare agencies) and the poor, the idea being that food stamps would help the poor buy more of the farmers' goods.
Now it's a case where it helps two groups--the poor, and the food processors (as opposed to the food producers).
Originally, food stamps could be used for only the basic elementary essentials--milk, butter, eggs, bread, flour, sugar, coffee, tea, cheese, salt, pepper, beef, chicken, pork, fish, somesuch.
Nowadays people can buy candy and soda with food stamps.
I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.
And it is becoming evident that people who prepare their own meals from scratch are healthier, less fat, than people who buy already-made stuff.
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I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.
I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat? I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!
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I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.
I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat? I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!
Exactly -- use my money, follow my rules.
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I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.
I said as much to a food stamp recipeint once, and they got all indignant and said who was I to tell them what they can buy to eat? I figured, hell, since I'm paying for it, I can limit what you buy, same as I do with my kids!
I agree with you, Flame. The person taking this has put themselves in the position of a child getting doled out an allowance. I've never seen the problem with having restrictions on these things as part of the agreement for someone getting 'free money'. Well, they had restrictions but every few years they seem to loosen them up more. As a clerk in a little drug mart when I was a teen in the 80's, I seem to recall these things could not be used for pop or candy, but now they can be used for either in addition to prepared food at the grocery store(which was also disallowed once).
I also have an issue with someone using it to supplement their organic food bill. I had a couple come in once who used it for all organic food which made me think they could afford food that was not organic all on their own most likely so we were basically subsidizing their organic food selections and allowing them to live a lifestyle that most average families in this country could not afford on a regular basis. I'm assuming this was the usual shack up situation with the mother not reporting the live in boyfriends income which would have disqualified her from receiving food stamps. Seen that one happen a lot too and I believe it is fraud if the gov. cared to follow through on enforcement of the rules they have set.
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^exactly. The govt is complicit in their fraud IMO. There is little accountability. And let's be honest, they simply don't have the manpower to check up on every single person and every single purchase. The system is rigged so that only certain items can be purchased and only at certain times when the person's account has funds in it. But there are loopholes. I believe that a person can use cash out options or get change from purchases at the point of sale to circumvent the rules and put a little money in their pockets which can later be used for non-essentials. I think I remember reading an article (the author worked in food retail) and she said that food stamp/welfare recipients would buy the smallest item and get up to $25 back and they would do it over and over.
Or, they have a baby-daddy tagging along/living in the home. *Eyeroll*
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So, before the liberals started this bullshit, Kids went hungry? What'd they all do, starve?
NO! Their f'n families provided for them by either working to make their food purchases, or growing their own food. Libs have taken this responsibility out of their hands and turned people like this into a bunch of ****ing leeches. This has especially hit the black family unit hard. Libs have enslaved them once again. This time, it's considered to be for the sake of morality. Give me a ****ing break. :whatever:
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You know, when the food stamps program was first devised during the administration of Lyndon Johnson, it was intended to help two groups--the farmers (and hence the program was administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, not by welfare agencies) and the poor, the idea being that food stamps would help the poor buy more of the farmers' goods.
Now it's a case where it helps two groups--the poor, and the food processors (as opposed to the food producers).
Originally, food stamps could be used for only the basic elementary essentials--milk, butter, eggs, bread, flour, sugar, coffee, tea, cheese, salt, pepper, beef, chicken, pork, fish, somesuch.
Nowadays people can buy candy and soda with food stamps.
I think we need to go back to the beginning, and allow only the basic elementary essentials.
And it is becoming evident that people who prepare their own meals from scratch are healthier, less fat, than people who buy already-made stuff.
Even back then, a Hell of a lot of the food stamps were just discounted in the 'hood at $.50 to the dollar. Before the food stamps, there were the "government cheese" days, but that went away for one good reason (inherent inefficiency of distributing large quantities of diverse things 'in kind' throughout the country) and one bad one (undignified to line up for the handouts).