The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on September 22, 2013, 08:18:09 AM
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Islam wasn't violent until AMERICA!
cali (87,183 posts)
This is hard to talk about: The violence being perpetrated in the name of Islam
I know the U.S. perpetrates violence. that's hardly a topic I've shied away from. It's not controversial here to discuss it or condemn it. It happens multiple times daily.
It's more difficult (at least for me) to discuss the sectarian violence within Islam. It's not my religion. It's not my culture. There's been far too much bigotry against Muslims. Just yesterday I saw someone here mockingly remark about the "religion of peace". There have been folks here who agreed with Sarah Palin's repulsive comment "let god sort them out".
but the sectarian violence is crashing down in a huge wave: Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia.
Most of this sectarian violence is Sunni v Shia, but some are Muslim attacks on Christians such as the Pakistan church bombing and the Kenya Mall attack.
Why is this happening? What role has western interference played both historically and currently? How much of it can be attributed to the long schism within Islam?
I don't know. As I said, I don't know how to talk about this.
leveymg (29,001 posts)
1. We opened a pandora's box with serial regime change across MENA. Religious war was the inevitable
Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 08:22 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
result in Syria given its particular history of Sunni-Shi'ia conflict and its proximity, strategic and symbolic importance to the major antagonists within the region: Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel. The breakup of Libya sent tens of thousands of hardened fighters newly armed with sophisticated weapons into the other conflict zones, particularly Syria. Once ignited, civil war in Syria was bound to spread.
The Sunni-Shi'ia Jihad is a cancer that was once contained and stable. The Clinton-Petraeus serial regime change doctrine destabilized the region, and sectarian violence and terrorism is now metasticizing. Now, it will make the whole world violently ill.
leveymg (29,001 posts)
5. Sec. of State Hillary Clinton and CIA Director Petraeus led this policy. You're absolutely right
Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 08:36 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
that the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the destruction of the secular Ba'ath regime there -- which resulted in the three-way breakup of Iraq into Shi'ia (southern), Sunni (central and western), and Kurdish (northern) semi-autonomous regions -- was an important precursor to the sectarian intra-Islamic war.
But, the region was fairly stable until early 2011 when simultaneous regime change operations were initiated in Libya and Syria, and the collapse of the Ghadaffi regime and movement of arms and fighters fed the Syrian civil war which is now spreading back into Iraq and several other surrounding countries.
CJCRANE (13,595 posts)
3. This is fairly recent in historical terms
Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 08:28 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
if you consider that the Afghan Mujahideen and foreign fighters were considered to be heroes in the 80s, which was the first major appearance of this type of religious fundamentalism in modern times.
Before that the main "freedom fighters" were marxist and nationalist, such the IRA, ETA, PLO, South American revolutionaries (just think of the stereotypical terrorist of the 60s and 70s - Carlos the Jackal - and think of the image of a freedom fighter wearing a beret).
Plus think of the strongmen of the arab world of the past few decades: Saddam, Nasser, Ghadaffi, Assad, Arafat. All of them were arab nationalists and socialists.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023710457
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cali (87,183 posts)
This is hard to talk about: The violence being perpetrated in the name of Islam
I know the U.S. perpetrates violence. that's hardly a topic I've shied away from. It's not controversial here to discuss it or condemn it. It happens multiple times daily.
It's more difficult (at least for me) to discuss the sectarian violence within Islam. It's not my religion. It's not my culture. There's been far too much bigotry against Muslims. Just yesterday I saw someone here mockingly remark about the "religion of peace". There have been folks here who agreed with Sarah Palin's repulsive comment "let god sort them out".
but the sectarian violence is crashing down in a huge wave: Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia.
Most of this sectarian violence is Sunni v Shia, but some are Muslim attacks on Christians such as the Pakistan church bombing and the Kenya Mall attack.
Why is this happening? What role has western interference played both historically and currently? How much of it can be attributed to the long schism within Islam?
I don't know. As I said, I don't know how to talk about this.
Sectarian?!?
My, ...you're quite stupid. Of course, you "don't know how to talk about it". To do so honestly would explode your widdle bwain.
Just keep twisting in the wind (D)Ummie. It's safer that way
Plus think of the strongmen of the arab world of the past few decades: Saddam, Nasser, Ghadaffi, Assad, Arafat. All of them were arab nationalists and socialists.
Care .....ful.
Remember where you are, (D)Ummie....
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I am afraid that I may have lost IQ points reading that crap. :banghead:
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cali (87,183 posts)
~Hoot, screech, belch~
(scratches butt, sniffs finger)
As I said, I don't know how to talk about this.
A DUmmy should respect its limitations.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v63oTveUEGI/STCQinmPvuI/AAAAAAAAHYg/fPpgi3iHZmU/s400/ChimpanzeeAppleComputer.jpg)
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You buy 'em Korans and buy 'em Korans and all they ever do with them is lick the binding paste and eat the covers.
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I am afraid that I may have lost IQ points reading that crap. :banghead:
I'm with you. What pointless, ineffectual blather.
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I'm with you. What pointless, ineffectual blather.
Thye are so cowardly, so afraid of the mooselimbs, that they won't even let better men stand up to the terror that is Islam.
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I'm with you. What pointless, ineffectual blather.
That's why I let others do the reading for me . . . O-)
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Why is this happening? What role has western interference played both historically and currently? How much of it can be attributed to the long schism within Islam?
So what are you looking for? How to appropriate blame?
This should help you understand it better....think of the Shia as Democrats and the Sunni as Republicans.
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So according to the DUmmys, things were going pretty good in the ME until King Barky the Incompetent put his sooper jeanus brain on these not ideal but stable situations. Prematurely pulled out of Iraq, now there is violence everywhere, and it is far worse than when he found it. Made Libya and Tunisia smoldering hellholes far worse than when he found it. Made Egypt unstable and violent, and it is far worse than when he found it. I know the good war, Afghanistan, more Americans have died there in under five years than under GWB in seven years, more unstable, and it is far worse than when he found it. OK, I should lay off all of Obama's foreign policy failures.
Let's look at what his 11th dimensional chess mind has accomplished domestically. 9.5 million fewer jobs, the lowest labor participation rate since 1965, and a 50% haircut in Americans wealth. Median pay has gone down almost $3000/yr. National debt up $7 trillion. Home ownership is at a record low. Gas has doubled. Energy in general has doubled. Core food costs have doubled. Doubling of food stamp participants. Record number of people on SSDI. Real GDP growth is negative. Made a law that incentivizes employers to make part time jobs (96% of all jobs created) and drop benefits. In short he has taken our economy under his recovery down the crapper and it is far worse than when he found it. Enough about Obama's domestic economic train wreck.
OK maybe I'm being harsh on our first affirmative action preznint. He must surely be protecting our civil liberties. He did guest lecture at a community college about the Constitution for a year and Bush was a fascist. Wait, Obama worked tirelessly to get the NSA privacy protections Bush put in overturned. His NSA reads every email and has used strong arm tactics of the Stazi to force independent companies to give him our data. Well at least Obama has been fair in enforcing the laws that Congress has passed. NOPE, first time any sitting preznint has not defended legislation was DOMA. He also chooses what parts of laws he will enforce and which ones he will not as in illegal immigration and his own signature train wreck the cACA. Surely our brave sooper jeanus president would apply the laws fairly and not use government to punish his enemies. NOPE, he has used the IRS, the DOiJ, and the EPA to selectively punish his enemies (no not terrorists, conservatives) and reward his campaign contributors. Our civil rights and equal protection under the law are far worse than when he found it.
BUT but, Obama was a great community organizer. Well no. The community that he antagonized is now the murder capitol of the country. Almost a billion dollars in grant money did nothing to improve the community's school performance. However, he and his friends did get very rich while the community went downhill and it is far worse than when he found it.
Obama has little in true accomplishments but many fake accolades. The one and only thing he is good at is finding something or some situation and making it far worse than when he found it. His one God given talent is for destruction. Both the USA and the world will be/is far worse than when he found it.
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So according to the DUmmys, things were going pretty good in the ME until King Barky the Incompetent put his sooper jeanus brain on these not ideal but stable situations. Prematurely pulled out of Iraq, now there is violence everywhere, and it is far worse than when he found it. Made Libya and Tunisia smoldering hellholes far worse than when he found it. Made Egypt unstable and violent, and it is far worse than when he found it. I know the good war, Afghanistan, more Americans have died there in under five years than under GWB in seven years, more unstable, and it is far worse than when he found it. OK, I should lay off all of Obama's foreign policy failures.
Let's look at what his 11th dimensional chess mind has accomplished domestically. 9.5 million fewer jobs, the lowest labor participation rate since 1965, and a 50% haircut in Americans wealth. Median pay has gone down almost $3000/yr. National debt up $7 trillion. Home ownership is at a record low. Gas has doubled. Energy in general has doubled. Core food costs have doubled. Doubling of food stamp participants. Record number of people on SSDI. Real GDP growth is negative. Made a law that incentivizes employers to make part time jobs (96% of all jobs created) and drop benefits. In short he has taken our economy under his recovery down the crapper and it is far worse than when he found it. Enough about Obama's domestic economic train wreck.
OK maybe I'm being harsh on our first affirmative action preznint. He must surely be protecting our civil liberties. He did guest lecture at a community college about the Constitution for a year and Bush was a fascist. Wait, Obama worked tirelessly to get the NSA privacy protections Bush put in overturned. His NSA reads every email and has used strong arm tactics of the Stazi to force independent companies to give him our data. Well at least Obama has been fair in enforcing the laws that Congress has passed. NOPE, first time any sitting preznint has not defended legislation was DOMA. He also chooses what parts of laws he will enforce and which ones he will not as in illegal immigration and his own signature train wreck the cACA. Surely our brave sooper jeanus president would apply the laws fairly and not use government to punish his enemies. NOPE, he has used the IRS, the DOiJ, and the EPA to selectively punish his enemies (no not terrorists, conservatives) and reward his campaign contributors. Our civil rights and equal protection under the law are far worse than when he found it.
BUT but, Obama was a great community organizer. Well no. The community that he antagonized is now the murder capitol of the country. Almost a billion dollars in grant money did nothing to improve the community's school performance. However, he and his friends did get very rich while the community went downhill and it is far worse than when he found it.
Obama has little in true accomplishments but many fake accolades. The one and only thing he is good at is finding something or some situation and making it far worse than when he found it. His one God given talent is for destruction. Both the USA and the world will be/is far worse than when he found it.
A brilliant summation. Bravo!
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preznint
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:...a most perfect description.
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jukin...may I steal that? H5
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jukin...may I steal that? H5
Of course and please add to it. I forgot all about what he has done for race relations in the USA and the outreach and compassion for all the Christians in the middle east.
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Of course and please add to it. I forgot all about what he has done for race relations in the USA and the outreach and compassion for all the Christians in the middle east.
HI5 my friend that was great.
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Of course and please add to it. I forgot all about what he has done for race relations in the USA and the outreach and compassion for all the Christians in the middle east.
Those are the people we should be arming.
ETA: How they have remained Christians all these centuries is beyond me....I am ashamed to admit that their faith is stronger than mine.
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I am afraid that I may have lost IQ points reading that crap. :banghead:
I agree April. Five minutes of my life I'll never get back.
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Absolutely spot on jukin, ^5'd too. And I stole it too.
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Why is this happening? What role has western interference played both historically and currently? How much of it can be attributed to the long schism within Islam?
I don't know. As I said, I don't know how to talk about this.
Until you stop feeling more sympathy for the Muslim terrorists than you do for your own countrymen and anyone who is NOT Muslim...you'll never understand .