The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: TheSarge on June 21, 2008, 11:34:28 AM
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Barack Obama told a group of Florida donors Friday night that Republicans will try to make voters afraid of him, and suggested they would use his race to scare up votes for John McCain.
Apparently girding for a nasty general election fight, the Illinois senator has in recent days predicted that independent GOP groups are waiting in the wings to attack him, and said his presumptive GOP rival is already “fear-mongering†when it comes to foreign policy.
But his comments Friday night in Jacksonville, Fla., seemed to reflect elevated concerns that his campaign to be the first black president would run headlong into political race baiters.
“We know what kind of campaign they’re going to run. They’re going to try to make you afraid,†Obama said at the fundraiser. “They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black? He’s got a feisty wife.â€
The crowd of supporters cheered, and Obama added: “We know the strategy because they’ve already shown their cards. Ultimately I think the American people recognize that old stuff hasn’t moved us forward. That old stuff just divides us.â€
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/21/obama-suggests-gop-will-use-race-to-scare-voters/
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Nothing like a little reverse racism mixed with a dose of traditional Democrat party fear mongering.
This is the "change" he talks about?
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Fear mongering is the Dem. long suit. Willy Horton was brought to light by a DEMOCRAT. Further, considerintg what "ol Willy did while on leave from prision, it was underplayed.
I remember democrats saying that Rep's wanted to end social security, welfare, "hot lunch", deny medical treatmen5t rto the indigent, cut Vets. beneits, make SrS. CHOSE BETWEEN MEDS. AND food, and that's just the tip of the Dem. propaganda iceberg.
Actually, we'd like to see some POSITIVE results, (war on poverty 11 trillion spent, why is anyone still poor?) for the money WE give to government?
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He's so audacious! :whatever: Way to go Fast Eddie.
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John Wayne Gacy: White
Hitler: White
Obama: ½ White! Run for your f cking lives! Crazy white guy!
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Yeah cause the conservatives are the ones threatening to riot and start a revolution if Obama doesn't get elected. :whatever:
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Fear mongering is the Dem. long suit. Willy Horton was brought to light by a DEMOCRAT. Further, considerintg what "ol Willy did while on leave from prision, it was underplayed.
I remember democrats saying that Rep's wanted to end social security, welfare, "hot lunch", deny medical treatmen5t rto the indigent, cut Vets. beneits, make SrS. CHOSE BETWEEN MEDS. AND food, and that's just the tip of the Dem. propaganda iceberg.
Actually, we'd like to see some POSITIVE results, (war on poverty 11 trillion spent, why is anyone still poor?) for the money WE give to government?
Fred Thompson was on Hannity and Colmes the other day. Fred said that the main source of the rumors that Obama is a Muslim is coming from the Democrats. Stupid Colmes was saying something about that guy (Brown?) and the Willie Horton ad and Fred said, "I didn't know Brown worked for Al Gore". :-)
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Fear mongering is the Dem. long suit. Willy Horton was brought to light by a DEMOCRAT. Further, considerintg what "ol Willy did while on leave from prision, it was underplayed.
I remember democrats saying that Rep's wanted to end social security, welfare, "hot lunch", deny medical treatmen5t rto the indigent, cut Vets. beneits, make SrS. CHOSE BETWEEN MEDS. AND food, and that's just the tip of the Dem. propaganda iceberg.
Actually, we'd like to see some POSITIVE results, (war on poverty 11 trillion spent, why is anyone still poor?) for the money WE give to government?
Fred Thompson was on Hannity and Colmes the other day. Fred said that the main source of the rumors that Obama is a Muslim is coming from the Democrats. Stupid Colmes was saying something about that guy (Brown?) and the Willie Horton ad and Fred said, "I didn't know Brown worked for Al Gore". :-)
I googled it right after I posted. I found it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,369521,00.html
COLMES: All right. Let me ask you about the ad. We just played a little clip of that. And, you know, if you're constantly besieged by rumors that you're a Muslim, rumors that you're not truly an American, called anti-American, what do you think of that response in terms of the ad we just showed?
THOMPSON: You know, the only people that I have heard mention those - - those rumors and those comments have been from the Obama campaign.
COLMES: No, no. You don't read the same sites I read.
THOMPSON: I'm not saying — well, I'm sure you read a lot more sites than I do. But, you know, as someone who follows — it's just kind of interesting. I'm not saying that somebody's not out there, but they are promoting the dickens out of this thing. I mean, they — they have — they have highlighted these things, and they talk about it a lot. And then they shoot it down, of course.
But, you know, I would be interested in seeing, besides them, you know, exactly what people are doing out there.
COLMES: Well, I can tell you specifically, for example, that Floyd Brown, the guy who did the Willie Horton ad, is trying to raise money by trying to make viral a YouTube offering asking the question is Barack Obama a Muslim, and he's claiming that Barack is because he was born Muslim, because his father allegedly was.
So you've got Floyd Brown out there, certainly, trying to raise money on the right to promote this false idea.
THOMPSON: He did the Willie Horton ad?
COLMES: Yes.
THOMPSON: I didn't know he worked for Al Gore.
COLMES: That's very funny. As you know, Al Gore didn't mention Willie Horton. He mentioned the furlough release program. Not important by name, but I'm sure you know that to be true.
THOMPSON: OK, OK. All right.
COLMES: A nice little dig there. What campaign is this? This is 2008 one, isn't it? Is that the one we're talking about?
THOMPSON: Oh, you have such a short memory.
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I love my Freddie :-) and I can't stand Skeltor Colmes.
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I will not vote for Obama because he is black.
In words that liberals cannot comprehend, just because Obama is black does not dictate I will vote for him.
Obama tossing out this rhetoric at this time shows HIM to be the racist here and unlike the left in this nation, I will not be "guilted" into voting for him because of some slavery that happened long before I was born.
Screw you Obama and the train full of racist pigs you rode in with.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
The perfect is the enemy of the good. And the ally of the evil.
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From the little I can remember from 1988, it WAS Paul Tsongas that first used Willie Horton in a primary against Dukakis. Now, Barack Hussein Obama is accusing the GOP for being "racists" for something that hasn't even happened yet, never will?
I'm sick and tired of his race-baiting. I'm sick and tired of him.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/kademan/obamaracecard.jpg)
HEH.
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From the little I can remember from 1988, it WAS Paul Tsongas that first used Willie Horton in a primary against Dukakis. Now, Barack Hussein Obama is accusing the GOP for being "racists" for something that hasn't even happened yet, never will?
I'm sick and tired of his race-baiting. I'm sick and tired of him.
Nilla Please :innocent:
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And yet what he and his most diabetic coma-induced Kool-Aid drinking minions don't realize is that when he utters statements like these, people who are sitting on the fence jump off, and not in his direction.
Bradley Effect or no, polls are meaningless this election season. More so given the fact that people 1--don't want Carter-lite, 2--don't like his message on defense, energy, or taxes, 3--he's going to say 1000 stupid things when the cameras are off or he doesn't have a prepared statement for every time he says "HOPE" or "CHANGE".
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Yeah cause the conservatives are the ones threatening to riot and start a revolution if Obama doesn't get elected. :whatever:
Maybe what whites should do is a work stoppage along the lines of Shar[pay]ton has been calling for. Since more whites work than blacks, the effect on the economy would definitely get someones attention.
Lets not forget the infamous NAACP ad depicting the dragging death of a black man during President Bush's run for the presidency - no racism there, now was there? Then they couldn't even bring themselves to tell the whole story about Bush's actions as governor -- all they wanted was to push that bull$hit about "hate crime laws".
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
People that vote for a person just because they have a certain initial behind their name, are part of the reason why the country is so **cked up to begin with IMO.
There ain't a damn thing wrong with NOT voting for a person that you feel does not and will not represent you and your views.
I may or may not vote for McCain in November (I am currently leaning toward not). I certainly won't be brow beaten into it by such comments as above.
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BHO has been gaming the race card since he got into CHi-town politics and has not let up one bit through this presidential campaign.
Fact is the right does not have to care about race one bit as the guy is a walking talking disaster par excellence.
Besides, its the donkey's that seem to take issue with his race...
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I may or may not vote for McCain in November (I am currently leaning toward not). I certainly won't be brow beaten into it by such comments as above.
I don't like McCain either but I will vote for him because the security of the nation and lowering taxes are my #1 and #2 priorities. If Obama is elected, I fear that another terrorist attack like 9/11 or one greater is eminent.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
People that vote for a person just because they have a certain initial behind their name, are part of the reason why the country is so **cked up to begin with IMO.
There ain't a damn thing wrong with NOT voting for a person that you feel does not and will not represent you and your views.
I may or may not vote for McCain in November (I am currently leaning toward not). I certainly won't be brow beaten into it by such comments as above.
No kidding...................and I can thank every damn person who didn't vote against Obama for helping get elected. There's no brow beating going on.
It's a free country do what you like, but come November and Obama is elected and you choose not to vote on the President.............Please do not complain about a damn thing that's all I will ask.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
Your welcome.
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I am not voting for Barack Obama for many reasons. It is not about race. We already had a Black president. Well, he was 1/16 Black, Warren G. Harding. Obama is all talk, no substance. Also he is running is campaign like what Jimmy Carter did in 1976. Carter portrayed himself as an outsider, like Obama is doing. Both seem to have a mantra for change. In addition, they are running when the economy is in a weakened state. Also, both like to talk about how religious they are.
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Once upon a time I decided I would not vote for McCain. I can't stand McCain and his policy of amnesty. I can't stand Barrack and his anti-American racist policy even more. So I am going to cast a vote for McCain just so the facist/marxist/socialist can go back to Chicargo and sit in Rev. Wrights pews once again. :tongue: on socialism.
Points against Brock.
Che image on his campaign office wall
not wearing a flag pin
not being willing to cross his heart during the pledge
Rev. Wright
Rev. Mr. Catholic somebody
Bill Ayeres
Tony Resko
His bill vowing to fight Global Poverty which will cost us 850 BILLION Dollars
His wife
The Kennedy connection (just as bad as the good Rev Wright in my opinion.)
I feel sorry for his typical white granny
He dosen't care that gas is over $4 a gallon, he just wishes it had not come so suddenly, he thinks we should have been eased into it
He dosen't want us to be cool, or to eat until we are full
he thinks white people in small towns are bitter bible hugging, gun toting rednecks
I know there is more, but this is more than enough. and ya know what makes me wanna hurl? the left wing liberal lunatics forgive him all of the above.
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It was during the Dem. Primary that his , Horton's, CRIMES while of furlough were enumerated. Rape, murder, mutilation, castration, but no photo. The Rep. advert quoted the Dem. primary advert., AND included a photo of Horton, mug shot, I think, and he sure looked the stone, consiousless murderer that he was.
Anyway, it was a completely legitimate issue, as government is there to protect the citizens. When their actions actually injcrease the danger and actually cause harm to the public, making it common knowledge is a public service, not race bating, etc etc.
BARRY, by saying that the Rep's will use race bating, etc, is race bating in fact. Making race an issue from day one. NOW, he will rationalize any race bating he does as being caused by those "evil" republicans,,,,......typical fraud.
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From the little I can remember from 1988, it WAS Paul Tsongas that first used Willie Horton in a primary against Dukakis. Now, Barack Hussein Obama is accusing the GOP for being "racists" for something that hasn't even happened yet, never will?
I'm sick and tired of his race-baiting. I'm sick and tired of him.
Nilla Please :innocent:
:lmao:
as for Obama scaring me cause he's black? uh.. no. I dont like his socialist ideas and how little he truly understands the economy.
why be afraid of someone im never going to meet? :whatever:
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I will not vote for Obama because he is black.
In words that liberals cannot comprehend, just because Obama is black does not dictate I will vote for him.
Obama tossing out this rhetoric at this time shows HIM to be the racist here and unlike the left in this nation, I will not be "guilted" into voting for him because of some slavery that happened long before I was born.
Screw you Obama and the train full of racist pigs you rode in with.
Thank you.... that is perfect.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
People that vote for a person just because they have a certain initial behind their name, are part of the reason why the country is so **cked up to begin with IMO.
There ain't a damn thing wrong with NOT voting for a person that you feel does not and will not represent you and your views.
I may or may not vote for McCain in November (I am currently leaning toward not). I certainly won't be brow beaten into it by such comments as above.
No kidding...................and I can thank every damn person who didn't vote against Obama for helping get elected. There's no brow beating going on.
It's a free country do what you like, but come November and Obama is elected and you choose not to vote on the President.............Please do not complain about a damn thing that's all I will ask.
Are you implying that if I don't vote the way you want me to, I should just sit in a corner and shut up?
Are going to vote "Against" Obama or "For" McCain? There is a difference IMO.
I'd rather vote "for" the candidate of my choice than merely vote "against" his opponent.
We have about 4 months left before the general election. McCain still has the chance to earn my vote. But he is going to have to EARN it by convincing me that he is worthy of it. His recent history in Congress has convinced me that he is pretty much a RINO. He is going to have to work hard to over come that perception.
Obama doesn't scare me. We survived 8 years of Clinton, we will certainly survive 4 years of Obama. And it just might be the wake up call that the idiots in charge of the Republican party need, to realize that they can't simply take the conservative vote for granted and expect us to vote for every RINO they roll out of the closet.
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The difference is that the Clintons are the very definition of pragmatists. They will do whatever leaves them in power and ideology is somewhere down the line. Barry's an idelogue, something that makes him far more dangerous than Billary ever thought of being.
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\Are you implying that if I don't vote the way you want me to, I should just sit in a corner and shut up?
Are going to vote "Against" Obama or "For" McCain? There is a difference IMO.
I'd rather vote "for" the candidate of my choice than merely vote "against" his opponent.
We have about 4 months left before the general election. McCain still has the chance to earn my vote. But he is going to have to EARN it by convincing me that he is worthy of it. His recent history in Congress has convinced me that he is pretty much a RINO. He is going to have to work hard to over come that perception.
Obama doesn't scare me. We survived 8 years of Clinton, we will certainly survive 4 years of Obama. And it just might be the wake up call that the idiots in charge of the Republican party need, to realize that they can't simply take the conservative vote for granted and expect us to vote for every RINO they roll out of the closet.
You clearly didn't live through 4 years of Carter.
Yes -- a non-vote is a vote for hussein. And your taxes will double or triple while you see our military become useless. You will socialist programs so breathtaking (starting with healthcare) that you will think you woke up in Cuba. Capitalism, as we know it, will be destroyed -- maybe for a generation. Your children (or nieces and nephews) will wither be slaves to the government or (if they are smart) merely drains on the government.
And on your feet it indeed shall be.
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The difference is that the Clintons are the very definition of pragmatists. They will do whatever leaves them in power and ideology is somewhere down the line. Barry's an idelogue, something that makes him far more dangerous than Billary ever thought of being.
Hmmm... You might have a point. But an Obama presidency still does not scare me. I have faith in the ideology of America and I have faith that there are enough us in the silent majority to do what needs to be done to protect that ideology.
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You clearly didn't live through 4 years of Carter.
After careful historical research. I can assure you that I did indeed live through 4 years of Carter, and I survived it.
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Scare mongering doesn't work with me.
Save that shit for the liberals that buy into it.
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Scare mongering doesn't work with me.
Save that shit for the liberals that buy into it.
I truly understand what you are saying, but oy, the stakes are really high this time.
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Your children (or nieces and nephews) will wither be slaves to the government
What is this "will be" crap?
You already are such a slave, What are you going to do about it?
Are you going to just piss and moan and vote for a person that wants you to remain a slave under a different title? McCain ain't gonna "free" you, me or anyone else.
He can't.
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Scare mongering doesn't work with me.
Save that shit for the liberals that buy into it.
I truly understand what you are saying, but oy, the stakes are really high this time.
The stakes are not any higher this time than they were 20 years ago.
IMO.
It is merely a matter of perspecitve.
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I will not vote for Obama because he is black.
In words that liberals cannot comprehend, just because Obama is black does not dictate I will vote for him.
Obama tossing out this rhetoric at this time shows HIM to be the racist here and unlike the left in this nation, I will not be "guilted" into voting for him because of some slavery that happened long before I was born.
Screw you Obama and the train full of racist pigs you rode in with.
This sums it up for me.
Those who do not vote/support John McCain could also be labeled as racists, too....two can play that game.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/kademan/obamaracecard.jpg)
HEH.
:rotf: :rotf:
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And yet what he and his most diabetic coma-induced Kool-Aid drinking minions don't realize is that when he utters statements like these, people who are sitting on the fence jump off, and not in his direction.
Bradley Effect or no, polls are meaningless this election season. More so given the fact that people 1--don't want Carter-lite, 2--don't like his message on defense, energy, or taxes, 3--he's going to say 1000 stupid things when the cameras are off or he doesn't have a prepared statement for every time he says "HOPE" or "CHANGE".
You are correctomundo...I know people who find him wanting to meet with terrorist leaders to be totally abhorrent. This is what scares them most.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
Your welcome.
I am about where you are, Air Wolf. I can't, in good conscience vote for John McCain. I will, however, be voting for my local government. Turns out, my local government can do something about Little Mexico, I mean the Illegals :-)
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I'd rather vote "for" the candidate of my choice than merely vote "against" his opponent.
We have about 4 months left before the general election. McCain still has the chance to earn my vote. But he is going to have to EARN it by convincing me that he is worthy of it. His recent history in Congress has convinced me that he is pretty much a RINO. He is going to have to work hard to over come that perception.
Ding!! Ding!! Ding!! Ding!!
I feel exactly the same way. When I vote, I place my vote *for* who I am voting for, I am not voting *against* their opponent.
I'll be bitching the next four years, no matter who wins this election, and I guess I will be "allowed" to since I might not vote :fuelfire: (because I suppose your not :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: :fuelfire: "allowed" to bitch about the candidate you voted for, which is exactly why I would be following the "rules" by not voting....it gives me my bitching rights).
I too cannot vote for a RINO.
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The difference is that the Clintons are the very definition of pragmatists. They will do whatever leaves them in power and ideology is somewhere down the line. Barry's an idelogue, something that makes him far more dangerous than Billary ever thought of being.
Hmmm... You might have a point. But an Obama presidency still does not scare me. I have faith in the ideology of America and I have faith that there are enough us in the silent majority to do what needs to be done to protect that ideology.
This is where we differ, an Obama presidency scares the bejeezus out of me...but, I just vote for his opponent.
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Your children (or nieces and nephews) will wither be slaves to the government
What is this "will be" crap?
You already are such a slave, What are you going to do about it?
Are you going to just piss and moan and vote for a person that wants you to remain a slave under a different title? McCain ain't gonna "free" you, me or anyone else.
He can't.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
We already are very socialistic, and you are right, it won't be reversed. Obama will further it, for sure.
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
Those that are gleefully announcing they are sitting out this elections seem to want more Ginsburgs.
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
Those that are gleefully announcing they are sitting out this elections seem to want more Ginsburgs.
so it would seem. they often suggest that there is 'no way' McC could FAIL to place a Ginsberg because the Congress wouldn't allow it. I don't buy that. if they obstruct it will just come to haunt them. to be sure there will be no Scalia's but they could not turn down many moderates. and a moderate is great improvement to some of those thought to be checking out soon.
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If we has a Constructionist Supreme Court, Barry would be just another bump in the road. However, with the Senile Five, anything can happen, and we cannot afford it right now.
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
Those that are gleefully announcing they are sitting out this elections seem to want more Ginsburgs.
I know I am anything but "gleeful" about the choice of candidates and about not voting in this upcoming election. I'd be gleeful if there was someone decent on the ticket, but there isn't.
I am disappointed and quite disgusted.
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It's a long time until November.
I think those that can't stomach to vote for McCain should ask themselves what it would take to make him the candidate you could vote for. I don't trust politicans (any of them) as far as I can throw them. But the McCain camp seems to be listening. Slowly. But it's something. I'm honestly committed to voting for McCain. I just hope that he makes me happier about it before election day.
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
Those that are gleefully announcing they are sitting out this elections seem to want more Ginsburgs.
I know I am anything but "gleeful" about the choice of candidates and about not voting in this upcoming election. I'd be gleeful if there was someone decent on the ticket, but there isn't.
I am disappointed and quite disgusted.
I'd have preferred better choices too but I've been that way in all the elections I've voted in. Not much chance of getting your wish in a two party system.
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It's a long time until November.
I think those that can't stomach to vote for McCain should ask themselves what it would take to make him the candidate you could vote for. I don't trust politicans (any of them) as far as I can throw them. But the McCain camp seems to be listening. Slowly. But it's something. I'm honestly committed to voting for McCain. I just hope that he makes me happier about it before election day.
all I've ever hoped for out of McC is judges. if I get more I'll call it gravy.
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Judges and remaining serious about GWoT for me.
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Judges and remaining serious about GWoT for me.
good catch.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
Your welcome.
I am about where you are, Air Wolf. I can't, in good conscience vote for John McCain. I will, however, be voting for my local government. Turns out, my local government can do something about Little Mexico, I mean the Illegals :-)
As much as it may seem painfull to others that I am not going to vote for McCain there is this that needs to be considered above all else. A President, Not matter what party they belong to can only do so much. The power to weild over our day to day lives lies with the Congress in both the House and Senate. They can override any Presidents wishes with enough people and with a Democratic run House and Senate a McCain Presidency might as well be one with Obama in office. McCain has alot of baggage he needs to address before he gets the votes of alot of party members.
Keating 5
Gang of 14
Some of his anti gun stances
His lack of support of sealing the border
His support on Global Warming
When he decides that America is more important then those issues then maybe he can earn the vote of those he seeks.
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Judges and remaining serious about GWoT for me.
Same here
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Judges and remaining serious about GWoT for me.
Same here
Me three! Airwolf, you need to think about this. I'm going to suggest something really "out there" right now about the GWot--when we get attacked again by terrorists, under a President Obama, the blood of all of the victims will be on those who either voted for Obama (some of those might consider that a badge of honor :bird: ), or those who sat out the election and didn't vote for McCain.
Why do I say something like that? Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being. A President Obama would either blame President Bush, or attack an ally (his remarks about Pakistan), thus making the GWoT virtually unwinnable as prosecuted by a President Obama. Sure, the public would probably vote him out in 2012, but I'd like to be alive for that vote. And, in the interim, the continued attacks that would probably occur (a President Obama would probably ask, "What did those who came before us do for us to deserve this?" as if we deserved to be attacked) would do untold damage to the economy, plus possibly set off a civil war (lefties against righties).
If that hurts feelings, so be it. That's what I think, and I'm not hiding it anymore.
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its not necessarily just 4 years of BHO. its very likely one or more SCOTUS changes. thats a little unusual and very much worthy of consideration.
do you want more Ginsbergs or Roberts' ?
That is a concern for me. But I'm not sure I trust McCain when he states what sort of Justices he will nominate.
He was a charter member of "Gang of 14" after all. Will he truely nomitate those like Roberts and Scalia or will he "reach across" the aisle again like he has so many times in the past and nominate those more like Ginsberg and Souter?
During the primary season he made it pretty apparent that he didn't give a damn about the conservative base. IMO anyway.
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There are plenty of reasons to not vote for Barry,
What has he done while in the Senate for the state of Illinois? He seems to be talking a good game about hope and change but so far all I see is the same old Democrat run state thats just as corrupt and bad as ever.
He has no foriegn policy experiance at all. Anyone that wants to use Winnie The Pooh as a guideline and not John Wayne or Winston Churchill needs to go back to school because he has FAILED to learn from history.
Just what are his policies? Has he even lais out one plan that would realistcally bring oil prices and the housing market under control? NO he just sits behind his podium and repetes Democrat talking points. They said Bush is an idiot,if thats true then I wouldn't be holding Barry up as a shining example on economics.
Face it people Barry is about as experianced as a 6th grade debating team when it comes to running for President. There's not alot to like about McCain but damn, at least he'll know when to pull the trigger on some asshat with a bomb and a plan to use it. I won't vote for McCain but I will be voting for the Senators and Congressmen here that will be more likely to push though a conservative agenda like we have needed for a long time.
thank you for being another that will ensure that Barry is the next President of the United States
Your welcome.
I am about where you are, Air Wolf. I can't, in good conscience vote for John McCain. I will, however, be voting for my local government. Turns out, my local government can do something about Little Mexico, I mean the Illegals :-)
As much as it may seem painfull to others that I am not going to vote for McCain there is this that needs to be considered above all else. A President, Not matter what party they belong to can only do so much. The power to weild over our day to day lives lies with the Congress in both the House and Senate. They can override any Presidents wishes with enough people and with a Democratic run House and Senate a McCain Presidency might as well be one with Obama in office. McCain has alot of baggage he needs to address before he gets the votes of alot of party members.
Keating 5
Gang of 14
Some of his anti gun stances
His lack of support of sealing the border
His support on Global Warming
When he decides that America is more important then those issues then maybe he can earn the vote of those he seeks.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Very well said. That list sums up some of the very reasons that I find McCain so unpalatable as a candidate.
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Why do I say something like that? Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being.
Wishful thinking IMO.
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:clap: :clap: :clap:
Very well said. That list sums up some of the very reasons that I find McCain so unpalatable as a candidate.
Better to have a socialist than a less-than perfect Conservative.
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If Obama wins the presidency, his coattails will surely bring in a filibuster proof Senate of 60 or more Democrats. The Democrats only need to win 7 or 8 more. If that happens, the Repubs will be helpless in stalling ANY AND ALL LEGISLATION. The Democrats will have a blank check to pull out of Iraq, draw down the military, gut defense and intelligence departments, pass increases in income and social security taxes, pass all social programs, and if all that is not bad enough, weaken our ability to prevent terrorism on our home soil. It's not blind luck that we have not been attacked again since 9/11. Think about that when you vote.
Obama will do each and every one of those where McCain will not.
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with the dems in control of both houses of congress, and with obama's stated positions of
literally remaking the country according to his utopian "ideals", and considering the coattails
effect mentioned above, not voting for mccain because he isn't a perfect enough candidate
is suicidal and deranged.
this is a turning point in history, and it's no time for temper tantrums. the country will be
damaged permanently. some things, once done, can never be undone.
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the country will be damaged permanently. some things, once done, can never be undone.
Ooops... too late. The damage began back in the 1930's (some claim even earlier (1913)) and has continued to expand each year regardless of which party was in power.
Think about it.
Was there an income tax pre 1913?
No.
Was there a SS tax pre 1935?
No.
Medicare? Medicaid? These came even later.
These socialist items have been around and have grown larger and more costly to we, the tax payers, for several decades.
So don't talk to me about how Obama will bring socialism to America... It has been here for decades, and both the democrat and republican parties have advanced it.
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the country will be damaged permanently. some things, once done, can never be undone.
Ooops... too late. The damage began back in the 1930's (some claim even earlier (1913)) and has continued to expand each year regardless of which party was in power.
Think about it.
you think about it. unless you got a time machine in your back pocket, the 1930's are gone. discussing 1930 in 2008 is pointless, although I wonder how many people in the 1930s said, "**** it. the damage was done in 1910. I am voting for roosevelt". that was not a very helpful attitude back then, given a proper historical perspective, is it?
it's not a helpful attitude now, either. you just can't see the havoc that will be wrought . . . yet.
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the country will be damaged permanently. some things, once done, can never be undone.
Ooops... too late. The damage began back in the 1930's (some claim even earlier (1913)) and has continued to expand each year regardless of which party was in power.
Think about it.
you think about it. unless you got a time machine in your back pocket, the 1930's are gone. discussing 1930 in 2008 is pointless, although I wonder how many people in the 1930s said, "**** it. the damage was done in 1910. I am voting for roosevelt". that was not a very helpful attitude back then, given a proper historical perspective, is it?
it's not a helpful attitude now, either. you just can't see the havoc that will be wrought . . . yet.
My point is that both current major parties have merely advanced socialism in their own ways over the last several decades.
You tell me; What is McCain going to fix? What is he going to do to reverse the damage?
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
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the country will be damaged permanently. some things, once done, can never be undone.
Ooops... too late. The damage began back in the 1930's (some claim even earlier (1913)) and has continued to expand each year regardless of which party was in power.
Think about it.
you think about it. unless you got a time machine in your back pocket, the 1930's are gone. discussing 1930 in 2008 is pointless, although I wonder how many people in the 1930s said, "**** it. the damage was done in 1910. I am voting for roosevelt". that was not a very helpful attitude back then, given a proper historical perspective, is it?
it's not a helpful attitude now, either. you just can't see the havoc that will be wrought . . . yet.
My point is that both current major parties have merely advanced socialism in their own ways over the last several decades.
You tell me; What is McCain going to fix? What is he going to do to reverse the damage?
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
I fully understand your point. my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
and if you can't tell how different the country would look after 8 years of president mccain vs. 8 years of
president obama (all hypotehtically speaking, of course), then it isn't me that needs to "think about it".
I just pray to God that you don't live in a swing state.
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
wonderful. I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
wonderful. I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.
Now this I have to chuckle at... Anyone that doesn't see things your way, is NOT seeing the big picture?
The big picture is merely a matter of perspective WE.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
wonderful. I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.
Now this I have to chuckle at... Anyone that doesn't see things your way, is NOT seeing the big picture?
The big picture is merely a matter of perspective WE.
yeeesh. :thatsright: you've almost got me putting up a full blown defense of a guy I don't even
care for. :whatever: :-) how'd you do that?
anyone that doesn't see how the election that we have before us could have a devastating effect on
the future of the big picture, yes, in my opinion, lacks perspective.
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
wonderful. I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.
Now this I have to chuckle at... Anyone that doesn't see things your way, is NOT seeing the big picture?
The big picture is merely a matter of perspective WE.
yeeesh. :thatsright: you've almost got me putting up a full blown defense of a guy I don't even
care for. :whatever: :-) how'd you do that?
anyone that doesn't see how the election that we have before us could have a devastating effect on
the future of the big picture, yes, in my opinion, lacks perspective.
I've seen that "my way or the highway" mentality in before.
The arrogance that it implies lack of perspective is priceless.
I have never not even ONCE thought that my perspective was the only one allowed.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.
I have never demanded perfection.
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I do live in a swing state. A pretty important one too. Ohio.
wonderful. I hope there are some people in ohio that can actually see the big picture.
Now this I have to chuckle at... Anyone that doesn't see things your way, is NOT seeing the big picture?
The big picture is merely a matter of perspective WE.
yeeesh. :thatsright: you've almost got me putting up a full blown defense of a guy I don't even
care for. :whatever: :-) how'd you do that?
anyone that doesn't see how the election that we have before us could have a devastating effect on
the future of the big picture, yes, in my opinion, lacks perspective.
I've seen that "my way or the highway" mentality in before.
The arrogance that it implies lack of perspective is priceless.
I have never not even ONCE thought that my perspective was the only one allowed.
it's a political board, rich. we discuss these things here.
but you seem willing to stand idly by and let a "perfect storm" develop; a filibuster proof majority in the senate,
control in both houses of congress, and the biggest social engineer to come down the pike ever, perhaps, in
the white house, and your reasoning is that there isn't that much of a difference in the parties, or the candidates,
to really have any meaning.
that makes no sense to me.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.
I have never demanded perfection.
now you're just avoiding my point.
is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?
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I have a question rich. I just read the remainder of this thread after my last post.
What exactly would it take to make you vote for McCain?
I'm assuming you are a traditional conservative. You seem to think McCain isn't true to the conservative movement based on his past (He's not my first choice for POTUS - I was a Fred supporter). You also sound like you assume that a McCain Administration wouldn't, at minimum, keep us on the Bush Administration path (negatives aside - there are plenty - I'm talking the things he's done right like GWOT, etc..) or steer us even further back into conservative territory. And for the record, that would mean more fiscal sanity, less govt bloat, keeping our defense strong, reigning in entitlements, respecting state's rights (God Bless Oklahoma while we're here).
If you are taking a principled stance by not voting for McCain, are you prepared to live with the worst case scenario? I think it's fair to say that it could very well end up like described: bumbling Obama Administration, veto-proof Dem majority, SCOTUS retirements, bloated entitlements, higher taxes, etc...
What's your solution? McCain is the GOP nominee. Can he not be worked with? Would his VP choice make any difference? We all know politicians lies. McCain can wax philosophical all day long. So can Obama. That's the part that keeps me up at night.
I'm asking these things because I'm really interested.
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Why do I say something like that? Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being.
Wishful thinking IMO.
Let's hope that terrorists don't give us a chance to find out.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.
I have never demanded perfection.
now you're just avoiding my point.
is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?
I do see a difference between the two. Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.
I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person. He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT. That I think he will do well with.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.
I have never demanded perfection.
now you're just avoiding my point.
is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?
I do see a difference between the two. Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.
I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person. He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT. That I think he will do well with.
he's not a conservative in my book, either, rich. I just see a much less intrusive federal government in a hypothetical mccain administration. and he understands the nature of the GWOT. and he's not a clueless newbie (which may or may not actually
a good thing).
but I'm argued out on this one, pal. :-)
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I have a question rich. I just read the remainder of this thread after my last post.
What exactly would it take to make you vote for McCain?
I'm assuming you are a traditional conservative. You seem to think McCain isn't true to the conservative movement based on his past (He's not my first choice for POTUS - I was a Fred supporter). You also sound like you assume that a McCain Administration wouldn't, at minimum, keep us on the Bush Administration path (negatives aside - there are plenty - I'm talking the things he's done right like GWOT, etc..) or steer us even further back into conservative territory. And for the record, that would mean more fiscal sanity, less govt bloat, keeping our defense strong, reigning in entitlements, respecting state's rights (God Bless Oklahoma while we're here).
If you are taking a principled stance by not voting for McCain, are you prepared to live with the worst case scenario? I think it's fair to say that it could very well end up like described: bumbling Obama Administration, veto-proof Dem majority, SCOTUS retirements, bloated entitlements, higher taxes, etc...
What's your solution? McCain is the GOP nominee. Can he not be worked with? Would his VP choice make any difference? We all know politicians lies. McCain can wax philosophical all day long. So can Obama. That's the part that keeps me up at night.
I'm asking these things because I'm really interested.
You ask some good questions.
What would it take for me to vote for McCain (keep in mind that I haven't stated that I won't vote for him. I am merely leaning in that direction)?
I would be more inclined to vote for him if he did the following:
Change his stance on granting amnesty to illegal aliens. Oh I know he would prefer to call it by another name, but a turd is still a turd and it still stinks.
Publically state he will fight to keep the Bush tax cuts and make them permament. He was against them as I recall.
Retract his support of The Lieberman-McCain Climate Stewardship Act. This myth of global warming is going to bankrupt the country and McCain seems to want to help lead the way.
If I do decide to stand on principle and NOT vote for McCain, yes I am indeed prepared to live with the possible consequences of an Obama presidency. BTW... Where would we be as a country if our FF had failed to stand on their principles?
At what point does it become paramount to stand on principle and stop just opting to chose between the lessor of evils? The only way the so called conservative party is going to regain lost ground is by demanding conservative representation from it's candidates.
McCain is not a conservative IMO. He may be to the right of Obama, but that isn't saying much.
One last point.... If I knew for a fact that McCain would nominate true constructionist Justices for SCOTUS and keep fighting until he got them confirmed, I would be much more inclined to vote for him. But I fear that he will feel obligated to reach across the aisle and nominate left leaning moderates just to placate the Dems. He has shown that tendancy way to often IMO.
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Publically state he will fight to keep the Bush tax cuts and make them permament. He was against them as I recall.
he did, in fact, vote against them as a senator, but has pledged to push to make them permanent if elected.
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I fully understand your point.
I doubt it.
If you did you wouldn't be making comments like
my point is that you can't tell "moderately unsettling" for "utterly devastating".
doubt all you want. you're sacrificing what's infinitely preferable because you can't have what you consider to be
perfect. and that strikes me as petulant.
comparatively speaking, and with regards to the candidates, that comment is absolutely valid. in fact, it's probably
the only thing that matters in the general election this year.
Have you actuallly even read what I posted?
I challange you to post any comments of mine where I demanded perfection.
You can't and we both know it.
I have stated the things about McCain that concern me, but I have never demanded perfection.
Oh and for the record.. YOU do NOT get to decide what is infinitely preferable for anyone but yourself.
Is he going to work to do away with the SS, medicare and medicade taxes?
your point is, or seems to be, that since mccain can not, or will not do accomplish the above, then there is no
discernible difference between mccain and obama.
and THAT, my friend, is sacrificing "almost acceptable" for "perfection".
I haven't sacrificed a danm thing.
I have never demanded perfection.
now you're just avoiding my point.
is it true that you see no real difference between these two candidates?
I do see a difference between the two. Just not enough difference in several areas that concern me.
I am not trying to paint McCain as a horrible person. He is simply NOT a conservative in my book and I don't think he will even attempt to lead the country in the right direction with the possible exception of the WOT. That I think he will do well with.
he's not a conservative in my book, either, rich. I just see a much less intrusive federal government in a hypothetical mccain administration. and he understands the nature of the GWOT. and he's not a clueless newbie (which may or may not actually
a good thing).
but I'm argued out on this one, pal. :-)
Fair Nuff.
I enjoyed posting with ya about it.
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Why do I say something like that? Because a President McCain would turn the land where such an attack originated into glass, probably within an hour or two, and that would end the conflict for the time being.
Wishful thinking IMO.
Let's hope that terrorists don't give us a chance to find out.
A big 10-4 on that one Blue
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I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.
The past few days has shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.
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I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.
The past few days has shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.
Although I agree with you on every point you made, we lived through the Warren Court era by the hardest. What is more troubling to me is that a Obama Presidency will bring high taxation, anti-gun laws, abortion laws, dumbing down of the military, $10 a gallon gasoline but most of all I fear that we will be more susceptible to terrorist attacks. If he wins, it is very likely that the Democrats will gain enough Senate seats (60+) to pass any legislation. Obama is the most liberal politician in the Senate, and he will bring this country down to it knees if he is elected with a filibuster proof senate. I don't doubt for one minute that our sovereignty will also be in jeopardy by his socialistic views, and that he would like to see the UN flag flying over the White House with the stars and stripes beneath it. The sorry bastard won't wear a pin or acknowledge the P.O.A
I am not trying to scare anyone into voting for McCain but I sure as hell believe that Obama will try to do the above mentioned things if he becomes Prez.
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I understand that having McCain as President is far better then having Barry Obama slide his way into the oval office. The Problem however you cut it isn't with getting McCain in it is with the House and Senate. Voting McCain in isn't going to be worth much if the Democrats gain seats in the House and Senate. McCain could appoint anyone he wants to as judge but that person is going to be facing a group of leftist that would make Lenin smile.
The past few days has shown that getting two more Conservative leaning SC judges in the SCOTUS is too important to leave to someone that voted for two of the four liberal judges that have written the dissenting opinions for the death penalty for child rapist and against the 2nd Amendment. IF McCAin wants to lead this country he should learn from what happened to Bush when he tried to cross the party lines. Also the news media has already turned on him so no matter what he does they'll hate it. McCain stated that he would appoint Judges like Roberts and Alieto but he can't get then in without Conservative suppport in the Senate. Voting for McCain could end up to be a losing propostion no matter what if we the people don't send the people that will support him.
Although I agree with you on every point you made, we lived through the Warren Court era by the hardest. What is more troubling to me is that a Obama Presidency will bring high taxation, anti-gun laws, abortion laws, dumbing down of the military, $10 a gallon gasoline but most of all I fear that we will be more susceptible to terrorist attacks. If he wins, it is very likely that the Democrats will gain enough Senate seats (60+) to pass any legislation. Obama is the most liberal politician in the Senate, and he will bring this country down to it knees if he is elected with a filibuster proof senate. I don't doubt for one minute that our sovereignty will also be in jeopardy by his socialistic views, and that he would like to see the UN flag flying over the White House with the stars and stripes beneath it. The sorry bastard won't wear a pin or acknowledge the P.O.A
I am not trying to scare anyone into voting for McCain but I sure as hell believe that Obama will try to do the above mentioned things if he becomes Prez.
It might actually be far worse then we imagin an Obama Presidency can be.
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Well, Obama's lining up more tax increasing programs that we have money it seems. Here's a boondoggle he SPONSORED that should curl your hair. Worse than McCain? You bet, MUCH WORSE!
http://www.cfiflistmanager.org/globalpovertyactnm.html
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:clap: :clap: :clap:
Very well said. That list sums up some of the very reasons that I find McCain so unpalatable as a candidate.
Better to have a socialist than a less-than perfect Conservative.
What makes McCain conservative?
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HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.
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HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.
Which still beats a radical socialist democrat who will make the USA into the EU writ small.
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HE's not, he is a left leaning Republican.
As a right winger, I understand that the country will never elect a Prez that believes everything that I do such as nuke Syria and Iran now, bring our boys home now, term limits, eliminate or cut back on many Federal agencies, build the fence and start putting employers in jail for hiring illegals, kick foreigners out that want to protest here, lower taxes, etc.
I am going to vote for McCain who will put a bad taste in my mouth on some issues but will be on the right side on some issues. With Obama, I will feel like I have a load of crap in my mouth on every issue that this left wing marxist is for.
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What makes McCain conservative?
Well, he isn't a fiscal liberal. He supports tax cuts. He's not militarily liberal. He doesn't support abortion on demand. He doesn't believe in gay marriage. ...to add a few.
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What makes McCain conservative?
Well, he isn't a fiscal liberal. He supports tax cuts. He's not militarily liberal. He doesn't support abortion on demand. He doesn't believe in gay marriage. ...to add a few.
he actually voted against the bush tax cuts, IIRC. he modified his position in the primaries.
he was right on the surge before there was a surge. you gotta give him his props on that one. it was incredibly unpopular at the time, but he stuck to his guns.
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La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?
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La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?
I think it means that he lives in LA. :-)
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La Car Nut? Wasn't it a LeCar? Or is there some other car(s) you are nutty about?
I think it means that he lives in LA. :-)
Correct :-)
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So you're saying you don't care for Renault? :(
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So you're saying you don't care for Renault? :(
I will keep my Jap car and you can have all the french cars like Renault, Citroen and Peugot. They even have faggy names. :lmao: :tongue: :-)
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Back in their hayday, the LeCar was raced in Showroom stock. All you were permitted to do was add a rollbay and take out the spare tire. Two LeCar's, driven by two nice ladies, were competing hammer and tonf not to be dead last.
They came to trhe corner I was working, and one got sideways, and upon leaving the pavement, began to roll. The car desintigeated, throwing parts high in the air. The hatch door flew highest of all, but landed unhurt (except broken hinges) on the ground. Odd.
The lady driver was, fortunately, unhurt. Distraught about the ar, but unhurt. In trying to comfort her, I made the observation that I knew she had a small MC she could make due with until she replaced the car, after all, it was only metal.
She advised that she had a 4 year loan on the car, no insurance for this accident (only fire and theft) and wailed that she'd be driving the MC for four years, and broke into free flowing tears!
Lucky for her, later that day, the car was stolen, never to be seen again.......
Yes, that LeCar was dureable ::)!
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Back in their hayday, the LeCar was raced in Showroom stock. All you were permitted to do was add a rollbay and take out the spare tire. Two LeCar's, driven by two nice ladies, were competing hammer and tonf not to be dead last.
They came to trhe corner I was working, and one got sideways, and upon leaving the pavement, began to roll. The car desintigeated, throwing parts high in the air. The hatch door flew highest of all, but landed unhurt (except broken hinges) on the ground. Odd.
The lady driver was, fortunately, unhurt. Distraught about the ar, but unhurt. In trying to comfort her, I made the observation that I knew she had a small MC she could make due with until she replaced the car, after all, it was only metal.
She advised that she had a 4 year loan on the car, no insurance for this accident (only fire and theft) and wailed that she'd be driving the MC for four years, and broke into free flowing tears!
Lucky for her, later that day, the car was stolen, never to be seen again.......
Yes, that LeCar was dureable ::)!
I was always worried about wrecking my MR2 while autocrossing. Many of the courses were very tight with little room for run-offs and hitting concrete barriers and trees was a possibility. Insurance does not cover that either. Last year I went to driving school at Texas World Speedway. Got my 350Z up to 120 on the straight away.
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A friend drove an MR 2 in showroom stock. Rolled it (yes, I know, a difficult task, but he managed nicely) at the fastest part of the old Bridgehampton Race Course. Lucky for him, it was all off pavement in the sand when he rolled. The built in rollbar was so good, the roof did not even contact the SCCA required bar, and he was able to drive home, without any glass, of course. But it was only a few miles to his house anyway...
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A friend drove an MR 2 in showroom stock. Rolled it (yes, I know, a difficult task, but he managed nicely) at the fastest part of the old Bridgehampton Race Course. Lucky for him, it was all off pavement in the sand when he rolled. The built in rollbar was so good, the roof did not even contact the SCCA required bar, and he was able to drive home, without any glass, of course. But it was only a few miles to his house anyway...
I had (2) MR2's; a 1989 Super Charged and a 1994 Turbo. I watched a guy in a late model Porsche lose it and went ass end backwards into some trees and brush. The car disappeared. He drove it out with just a few scratches on it and made an early exit to the house. Probably ended his auto-crossing career. I have eaten up some rubber going sideways but that's about it.
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In the day, I drove Formula Ford (ROYALE RP-3A, & RP-29) A Tiga S-2000, Sports Renault, A-H Sprite (G-P) and a 1961 Panther (American built, one of 6 made) in competition. On track with Davy Jones, John Andretti and a few others. Only crashed twice.
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So if you don't vote for him, you're a racist? :bird:
Reverand Wright taught him well....you know the guy Obama pretends to not really know. :loser:
And he isn't smart because just by suggesting this idiocy, he is the one putting a spotlight on racism, and not McCain.
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Hawkgirl, Of course, that's the plan. If you're not washing Obama's feet with scented oil, you're a racist. It is a well thought out tactic to win, and republicans who fail of go on the offensive with the empty suit Obama in fact is, will lose the election.
Raise your hand if you want George Soros to be the man behind the curtin.
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Just another scare Tactic
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm116/01Zeus/campusscare.jpg)