The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Revolution on September 17, 2013, 04:09:21 AM
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A (DU) minority view on guns.
Last edited Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:02 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
I'm just going to say it - it isn't a gun problem, it's a people problem.
Guns, like cars, machetes, rope, etc., are tools of mankind. They all have appropriate uses. When used inappropriately, the inanimate object is not to blame, the person is. Is that not self-evident?
That some are using this tragedy to push a political agenda while the bodies of the victims are still warm is a little disrespectful and transparent, imho. But here it comes, full court press I'm sure. And we don't know the details yet. For all we know, this was a terrorist attack. There was some motivation. Maybe it was pay, maybe it was more. But motivation matters, because it isn't about the gun, it's about the person.
Two questions:
What percentage of gun homicides in the US is of the mass killing kind?
What percentage of legal gun owners have committed mass killings?
The answers will tell you two things, at least. One, that mass killings are a tiny fraction of all US gun violence. That is why using such a rare event to crusade against something much larger is so insincere.
And two, that the vast majority of legal gun owners are not "gun nuts" out to lay waste to society. This is reality.
The truth is each of us have a right and responsibility to defend ourselves, our families, and our property. Every one of us. We have a right to self-defense. We have a right to protect ourselves. We have a right to fight back. No permission is required. America is not going to relinquish those rights to the government. It just ain't going to happen. And it shouldn't happen.
Yeah, it's a minority view here, but I can promise you I'm not the only Democrat to hold these views.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll catch hell for posting this, and that's fine, everyone has an opinion. Hopefully the name-callers who want to scream "NRA shill" will bill few...
Hold up. Is this the DU minority view, or just the DU minority view when it's a minority who killed a bunch of people. Either way, applause for the discombobulation of the primitives via this thread.
Lizzie Poppet (2,924 posts)
4. Good post...but this isn't your first rodeo.
There will be a couple-three days of emotionally-overwrought venting. During that time, no one engaging in said venting is going to be even remotely receptive to a post pointing out the rarity of such events, pointing out that there are over 50 million gun owners in this country (probably way over, actually...) yet only a few thousand gun-related violent crimes, pointing out that garden variety "regular" criminals commit the vast majority of firearms homicides, not spree killers, etc. That's not what they want to hear...so they won't.
DUmmies who come out of the nutty gun closet don't usually last long at the DU. Thank you for the entertainment this will provide though.
otohara (22,010 posts)
14. Actually 22 America's Were Killed Today By Guns
and there will be the same, maybe more, maybe less tomorrow and the next day, day after that and so on...
What's the difference if these people are killed by a mass shooter or 22 separate shooters? It's massive compared
to other so-called civilized countries.
Who pays for all this gun violence?
We do to the tune of $600 million per year.
Do you have liability insurance on your gun?
Do you have liability insurance on your car?
Some Democrats in Pueblo said **** you to education, health care, Medicaid, and a host of other issues more important
than ****ing guns.
Hold I right there, primitive. 22America's were killed? Now, I knew there were 57 states in this America via our benevolent president. However, I realized not that there were 22...a whopping 22 Americas. And not just Americas. "America's." So what are these other America's of which you speak? Since, you know, an apostrophe is usually meant to say something "is. ex. What's, there's, how's.
Idiot...
Donald Ian Rankin (10,039 posts)
18. I disagree - you do not have a right to forms of self-defense that endanger others.
I agree with you that sane gun legislation is not going to come to America for the forseeable future. But if they *were* adopted, UK-style gun laws would reduce the death toll per year by thousands in the short term and tens of thousands in the long term.
I think your point about mass killings rather works against you - *on top of* all the mass killings (which I agree are not nearly as important an issue as they are made out to be, because they are only a tiny fraction of gun deaths), there are tens of thousands of other gun deaths every year.
That'd be the WHOLE POINT, you retard. To endanger the assailant!! DAMMIT, these people are dumb!!
Linko (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023682001)
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Holy shit. So the other person you are protecting yourself against can endanger you but you can't endanger them? Now I'm beginning to see how trayvon was sainted by liberals. Holy smokes what a stupid line of thought.
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There is something wrong with my guns.....they're lazy....I've had some of them for over 50 years and they ain't killed no damn body yet......could a good gunsmith fix that?
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Gun cam:
(http://montego.roughwheelers.com/Images/s&w.gif)
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^^ Damn loafer. Good for nothing lazy bum.
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Holy shit. So the other person you are protecting yourself against can endanger you but you can't endanger them? Now I'm beginning to see how trayvon was sainted by liberals. Holy smokes what a stupid line of thought.
Spot on. Basically you can't fight back at all according to this primitive because to do so would be a form of self-defense that could endanger others.
:mental:
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Spot on. Basically you can't fight back at all according to this primitive because to do so would be a form of self-defense that could endanger others.
:mental:
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Their entire world is skewed by their own desire for victim hood.
The only crime they want to recognize is the fantasy ones about the all powerful taking what is owed them.
They expect a messianic figure to intervene and right that wrong by force and the citizenship that disagrees being armed is an awful hurdle to get by.
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bowens43 (14,823 posts)
33. Youre wrong, it absolutely IS a gun problem.
the one thing that all acts of gun violence have in common is a gun.
you do NOT have a right to own a gun unless you are a member of a well regulated militia.
your post is nothing more than the usual nonsensical NRA talking points...
Yeah, butthole, that'd be because there is a gun involved. Just like all acts of knife violence involve knives. All sex involves a man and/or woman. All meals involve food. So what? If you're going to talk about a certain topic, don't constantly bring up the exact specific thing the topic involves as if you're brilliant for thinking of it. As if it a revelation or something. Moron.
DanTex (4,136 posts)
42. The problem is that yours is an ignorant view.
I don't know how, in light of all the evidence, people can still believe that old lie that a murderer is going to find a way to murder, with or without a gun. In light of all the peer-reviewed studies, the fact that the US has a homicide rate several times higher than other nations of comparable wealth, despite the fact that our overall violent crime rates are not out of the ordinary.
Your view might have been plausible if we didn't have any evidence to bear on this question. But we do. And people like you continue to ignore it because if conflicts with your ideological agenda, which results in thousands of innocent lives lost every year.
Just two prolific murders for you, DUmmie. The Manson family. Did they use firearms? Yes. However, the objects they used in the majority were KNIVES, and objects to STRANGLE people. Outlaw all of those, morons!
Ted Bundy: Didn't use guns that I can recall. Used blunt force objects, and HIS BODY to inflict massive amounts of damage, and death.
Suck it, DUmmies.
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Vehicle deaths still outnumber gun related deaths by a wide margin. If we reduce all speed limits to 10MPH, those deaths could be eliminated.
OTOH, shouldn't DUmmies be for having more guns? After all they believe there are too many people, so thinning the herd in any way possible should be a good thing.
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OTOH, shouldn't DUmmies be for having more guns? After all they believe there are too many people, so thinning the herd in any way possible should be a good thing.
Only if they have the guns, and they are the ones doing the 'thinning.'
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The cognitive dissidence is strong in that thread, very strong.
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Just as a corollary poking the hive...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023681693
Alleged Navy Yard shooter 'obsessed' with violent video games, says friend
Alleged Navy Yard shooter 'obsessed' with violent video games, says friend
September 16, 2013
Aaron Alexis, Washington Navy Yard shooting suspect, often played violent video games according to a close friend.
Washington Navy Yard shooting suspect, Aaaron Alexis, was frustrated with his employer over unpaid wages says a close friend. Heidi Zhou-Castro has that and more from Ft. Worth, Texas.
Video here:
http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/live-news/2013/9/alleged-navy-yardshooterobsessedwithviolentvideogamessaysfriend.html
My how they change opinion when their precious video games get challenged. :lol:
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Vehicle deaths still outnumber gun related deaths by a wide margin. If we reduce all speed limits to 10MPH, those deaths could be eliminated.
OTOH, shouldn't DUmmies be for having more guns? After all they believe there are too many people, so thinning the herd in any way possible should be a good thing.
Blind people are at risk for being hit by electric cars because they can't hear them. We should ban those as well.
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Blind people are at risk for being hit by electric cars because they can't hear them. We should ban those as well.
That has been proposed (in Commiefornia, IIRC)
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Blind people are at risk for being hit by electric cars because they can't hear them. We should ban those as well.
Don't forget pressure cookers. Pressure cookers need to be banned.
Humorous how Liberals are all about regulations and banning activities/things.
Hey DUchebags, "Liberal" I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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you do not have a right to forms of self-defense that endanger others
:hammer:
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There is something wrong with my guns.....they're lazy....I've had some of them for over 50 years and they ain't killed no damn body yet......could a good gunsmith fix that?
:-)
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Just as a corollary poking the hive...
My how they change opinion when their precious video games get challenged. :lol:
In that thread. (D)Ummie shuts down the (D)Ummies:
Star Member The Straight Story (44,932 posts)
60. Maybe you missed the point
I agree that games are not to blame for the actions of others. Same as guns are not to blame either.
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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #60)Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:12 PM
nadinbrzezinski (126,019 posts)
61. And I think that we need to regulate access to guns
You could kill using a video game DISK, I suppose, but that is not the design parameter. I am sorry, if you are mentally ill, no gun for you. Now if you want to get a gun for your PS3, by all means.
The research to prevent this person from getting a gun for the PS3 is not there. The research to prevent this person from getting a real gun on the other hand is very much in front of you.
I am sorry you believe that all we need as far as guns is zero laws.
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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #61)Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:17 PM
Star Member The Straight Story (44,932 posts)
62. Really? When less than 1% use them we have an access problem?
Our laws are pretty effective, you cannot make a law that will 100% stop criminals. Ever.
What new laws will work? More background checks? You plan on doing them every week/mo/yr or just that one time some buys a gun? Cause if they use it 5 years later we will hear people whining "Oh, background checks don't work, make new laws z/y/z" there is always someone wanting new laws to tighten the screws on the very very few - and yet it is the many who are most affected.
How many laws did the recent shooter break? How many more would we have to make before he would have said "Oh, hey, that's too many for me to break!"
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Heh.....I just noticed it was the Blob. :rofl:
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Where the hell do they get their statistics? I've seen 3 studies in the past couple of days, including one by the feds, that prove gun ownership decreases gun violence. How big of a leap is it to figure out if you have a base where expert marksmen are carrying weapons this guy would've been double tapped before he could get a second shot off?
Cindie
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Only if they have the guns, and they are the ones doing the 'thinning.'
Agreed. To them it's all about dominance. They know damn well that gun laws won't prevent gun crime but as long as they "win" it doesn't matter.
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Where the hell do they get their statistics? I've seen 3 studies in the past couple of days, including one by the feds, that prove gun ownership decreases gun violence. How big of a leap is it to figure out if you have a base where expert marksmen are carrying weapons this guy would've been double tapped before he could get a second shot off?
Cindie
Facts, reality, past performance, causality, and logic are not in the quiver of a leftist, much less a DUchebag.
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If only guns were good surgical instruments for abortion, or would solve glow bull warming. Then the libs would love them.
I saw Big Dog's gun on his gun cam wiggle, just a little.Tiger had to take a 2 stroke penalty for that !
edit typo
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Blind people are at risk for being hit by electric cars because they can't hear them. We should ban those as well.
I'm Revolution, and I approve this message.
:rofl:
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There are a number of activities one doesn't do in addition to urinating into the wind...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nf44lpAFJc[/youtube]
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What's a DUmmie to do though, OZ? They're rebels. :lmao: