The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on August 10, 2013, 02:03:15 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1183715
Oh my.
And they expect the same people to administer our health care.
ChazInAz (391 posts) Fri Jul 26, 2013, 10:44 PM
Problem with SS
I've been retired for a year, now. Got out of the workforce a couple of years early, since I could no longer make the sacrifices demanded of me by my employer. It seemed pointless after my wife of 33 years died in 2010.
In preparing for retirement, I inquired at our local Social Security office about survivor's benefits, and was informed that I'd receive them when I retired. At that time, I was not aware that many of the staffers at our office had no idea what they were doing, or had malicious senses of humor. Now I know.
So, I eventually filed for retirement online, and kissed my job goodbye. Payments started arriving, and life was good. Four months later, SS sent me a dunning letter, demanding repayment of survivor's benefits. It seems that one cannot receive BOTH Social Security and survivor's benefits. Nobody told ME.*
So, I hied me off to our office to see what I should do. After waiting about three hours (The place is always SRO), I got to go to a counter and explain things. There I received the helpful advice that I could just keep the money. That struck me as rather a bad idea.
Another clerk told me that the PTB would hound me to the gates of Hell and beyond if I didn't repay it. That sounded more like the typical government procedure, so I decided to repay it. I mailed off the check in October of 2011, clipped tom the necessary paperwork. The department sent me several more threatening letters. By December, they still claimed to have never received the check. Many telephone calls later (With incredible on-hold periods), they still refused to acknowledge receipt of payment, although they sent me a photocopy of the paperwork that I had paperclipped to the check.
More trips to our local office, with multi-hour waits. Nobody knew anything. Finally, a bright spark suggested that I put a stop-pay on the check, write them another one there in the office, and they would see that it got to the responsible parties. This sounded wise, and it was done. All was good, and peace finally descended upon my life.
In April, they sent me a refund check for the amount that I had payed: some $3500. This was a good thing, for the money was desperately needed. Shortly thereafter, they sent me another dunning letter, demanding repayment.
I started doing some research in my bank account. They had cashed the the second check within days of my writing it. The day after that, they tried to cash the first, blocked, check... that they had continuously denied receiving. Months later, they sent me the refund, then demanded repayment. I have given all this info to my lawyer. My Congressman Ron Barber is investigating, and I am mightily pissed.
*the primitive's lying; the primitive really knew this, but was hoping to pull a fast one.
elleng (41,773 posts) Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:30 PM
1. I don't understand, don't know the official procedures, but sounds like something's amiss. Maybe to do with Survivor's benefits you were previously entitled to?
I retired around 2007, and started receiving SocSec. (Small amount as most of my working years had been as Fed. Govt. employee under CSRS, so didn't pay into SocSec.) Also received Fed Govt. pension.
Husband, also a Federal govt employee, passed May 15, 2013, I applied for Soc Sec Survivor's benefit about a month ago, and received it immediately.
I suggest you check with your attorney, find out to what extent s/he understands SocSec.
KC (1,754 posts) Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:28 AM
3. I can only receive one or the other but not both. It would sure make my life easier if I could get both because its impossible to live on just one.
ChazInAz (391 posts) Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:38 PM
6. Forgot to mention.
Somewhere along the line, the amount owed has magically doubled from $3500 to $7000....far more than I ever received and a hell of a lot more than I have available. It's pretty obvious that somewhere in the main Chicago office there are a couple of departments that aren't talking to one another. I hope that's the case. The improbable idea of there being a thief in the office is rather scary.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1183715
Oh my.
And they expect the same people to administer our health care.
*the primitive's lying; the primitive really knew this, but was hoping to pull a fast one.
Interesting topic, a female I knew decided to retire at age 62. When she went to the SS office and she gave her information she was asked if she wanted to retire on her earnings or her deceased ex husband.
This woman who had been divorced 25 years and had to raise their 7 kids alone as he skipped out on child support had no idea the children's father had died.
Problem for 20 years her ex husband had been re married to a woman, no children and she was claiming his SS benefits as the surviving wife.
You may see the interesting dilemma this caused for the second wife. She had no idea her husband had ever been married or had any children much less 7 of them never supported.
The 7 kids now adults came in and there was no will demanded 3/4 of the estate under their fathers name. A ship wreck ensued for the second wife. Her husbands retirement went to the kids, she had to sell her home and turn half the profit over to his kids and face the fact that she could loose his SS as there was a first family.
The old --What a tangled web we weave when first we promise to deceive ---
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And yet they fervently believe more government will solve all of their problems. I agree with the assessment that the dummie was trying to get over on the system. Fortunately, in doing so, he has placed himself in bureaucratic hell for perhaps the rest of his shitty life.
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The quote, as I recall it goes more like this...
"Oh What a tangled web we weave,
when we first practice to deceive".
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ChazInAz (391 posts) Sat Jul 27, 2013, 12:38 PM
6. Forgot to mention.
Somewhere along the line, the amount owed has magically doubled from $3500 to $7000....far more than I ever received and a hell of a lot more than I have available. It's pretty obvious that somewhere in the main Chicago office there are a couple of departments that aren't talking to one another. (They probably don't even speak the same language.) I hope that's the case. The improbable idea of there being a thief in the office is rather scary.
...and there's the problem right there!
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After waiting about three hours (The place is always SRO), I got to go to a counter and explain things.
There's his problem.
He went to the DMV or an urban democrat emergency room to ask a Social Security question.
This tale is as phony as an rsmithnumbers job interview.
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The DUmmy got out of the workforce a few years early because he could no longer make the sacrifices demanded by his employer.
What sacrifices were those? Show up on time and be productive for the full shift?
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I had a similar round with the IRS over "Highway Use" Taxes for my semi. Like to never have gotten that straighten out.....damn affirmative action employees.
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And yet they fervently believe more government will solve all of their problems. I agree with the assessment that the dummie was trying to get over on the system. Fortunately, in doing so, he has placed himself in bureaucratic hell for perhaps the rest of his shitty life.
Yep! Just one more layer of affirmative action mouthbreathers, will fix everything. Just one more law, will make everything right.
You idiots think dealing with SSA is mind-numbing?
You ain't seen nothing.
damn affirmative action employees.
:II:
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The answer is obvious...give every unemployed person in New Orleans, Chicago, and Detroit a job with the SSA paying $30+ an hour with a "Cadillac" benefits package. Being that they were poor themselves, they will have sympathy and understanding for SS recipients, and will hand out as much money as people need to lead a comfortable, well fed life of contemplation and reflection to everyone who asks for it. O-)
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KC (1,754 posts) Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:28 AM
3. I can only receive one or the other but not both. It would sure make my life easier if I could get both because its impossible to live on just one.
****ing leech.
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****ing leech.
My thoughts too, but I wasn't sure how to express them.
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The DUmmie's first issue is his belief that Social Security income is meant to fully support a person. It is not, it is meant to supplement your own retirement savings. His second mistake was not bothering to read the Social Security guidelines himself. A basic Google search would have helped to answer the question of how much Social Security he was entitled to collect.
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And yet they fervently believe more government will solve all of their problems. I agree with the assessment that the dummie was trying to get over on the system. Fortunately, in doing so, he has placed himself in bureaucratic hell for perhaps the rest of his shitty short life.
FIFY
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At that time, I was not aware that many of the staffers at our office had no idea what they were doing, or had malicious senses of humor.
They're unionized paper pushers, what did you expect?
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The DUmmie's first issue is his belief that Social Security income is meant to fully support a person. It is not, it is meant to supplement your own retirement savings. His second mistake was not bothering to read the Social Security guidelines himself. A basic Google search would have helped to answer the question of how much Social Security he was entitled to collect.
And CR hits it out of the ballpark!!! H5!
Me? I count on zero SS being there. Won't hurt me at all. If I get anything out of it that's dessert. I intend to have enough income to replace my current salary at the time, whatever it may be, fully. No 70 or 80 percent here. 100 percent.
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****ing leech.
Ya, double dipping isn't allowed. That's just common sense, isn't it? :banghead:
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And CR hits it out of the ballpark!!! H5!
Me? I count on zero SS being there. Won't hurt me at all. If I get anything out of it that's dessert. I intend to have enough income to replace my current salary at the time, whatever it may be, fully. No 70 or 80 percent here. 100 percent.
I hope you have as close to a bulletproof plan as possible. I have seen so many retirees have their retirements reduced, eliminated or turned over to the PB&G. Eastern, Enron, countless railroads. To an extent I do have some sympathy for people who worked hard at a job for 4 decades or so. They were many times promised that if they were loyal to their company they would be compensated well in retirement. Then at some point along the way the rug got pulled out from underneath them.
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I hope you have as close to a bulletproof plan as possible. I have seen so many retirees have their retirements reduced, eliminated or turned over to the PB&G. Eastern, Enron, countless railroads. To an extent I do have some sympathy for people who worked hard at a job for 4 decades or so. They were many times promised that if they were loyal to their company they would be compensated well in retirement. Then at some point along the way the rug got pulled out from underneath them.
That's why everyone should be paying into a 401k or IRA that they own out right.....even their SS money should be going into something like that.....but then the democrats would want to get their dirty hands on it some how so they could buy votes with it.
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I hope you have as close to a bulletproof plan as possible. I have seen so many retirees have their retirements reduced, eliminated or turned over to the PB&G. Eastern, Enron, countless railroads. To an extent I do have some sympathy for people who worked hard at a job for 4 decades or so. They were many times promised that if they were loyal to their company they would be compensated well in retirement. Then at some point along the way the rug got pulled out from underneath them.
Poloroid
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Poloroid
I hear you...
http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php (http://www.barlettandsteele.com/journalism/time_retirement_2.php)
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That's why everyone should be paying into a 401k or IRA that they own out right.....even their SS money should be going into something like that.....but then the democrats would want to get their dirty hands on it some how so they could buy votes with it.
Worry not.... San Fran Nan is already floating a plan to snatch all those retirement funds and distribute them more fairly.
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Wow, are the DUchebags gonna be pissed when they get this same level of service for their medical problems.
As I've been saying the only silver lining in King Barky the Incompetent's cACA bill is that the pain will fall disproportionately on the stupid MFers that voted for him. that will keep me smiling as I wait a few years to get routine procedures that used to happen in days.
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Ya, double dipping isn't allowed. That's just common sense, isn't it? :banghead:
For regular citizens like you and I it isn't allowed. If you're a government employee, by all means, go for it! I've seen I don't know how many cases of cops/firefighters/etc. who retire between 45-50 with a $60K/year pension, turn right around and jump on another government job for another $60-100K/year.
Not a bad deal if you can get it.
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For regular citizens like you and I it isn't allowed. If you're a government employee, by all means, go for it! I've seen I don't know how many cases of cops/firefighters/etc. who retire between 45-50 with a $60K/year pension, turn right around and jump on another government job for another $60-100K/year.
Not a bad deal if you can get it.
You kind of picked bad examples. Cops, firefighters and let's add the military earned their "entitlements" through hazardous service. You want to talk about IRS, congress, DMV etc. I'm with you.
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cases of cops/firefighters/etc. who retire between 45-50 with a $60K/year pension
By age 45 they have years of sick leave accumulated. Government jobs are great. Taxpayers are so generous.
We'll get the straight scoop soon from 0bama Steve, when he leaves his job scraping puke from the back seat of police cruisers, and goes on the public dole.
But I really doubt a DUmpmonkey like Dawes has allowed any sick leave to go unused.
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The DUmmy got out of the workforce a few years early because he could no longer make the sacrifices demanded by his employer.
What sacrifices were those? Show up on time and be productive for the full shift?
Most likely involved a cup and urine.
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But I really doubt a DUmpmonkey like Dawes has allowed any sick leave to go unused.
It's the one thing I can imagine him actually taking time over - if he'd spent as much time campaigning as on planning sick leave he'd probably have been elected.
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You kind of picked bad examples. Cops, firefighters and let's add the military earned their "entitlements" through hazardous service. You want to talk about IRS, congress, DMV etc. I'm with you.
Actually, I think I picked pretty good examples--why the hell should a cop with 20 years at age 45 get to boost his final year's pay to the $200K range by selling back the HUNDREDS of days of sick time and vacation they never used and never lost? And when that happens, they get to retire at a percentage of their final year's salary? Then spend another 15-20 years getting a second paycheck at the public trough, like this guy?
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20130122-NEWS-130129924
And consider that out in Commiefornia, there are retired cops making over $200K/year. Think about that.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21438816/bay-areas-250k-club-government-retirees-wont-be
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Actually, I think I picked pretty good examples--why the hell should a cop with 20 years at age 45 get to boost his final year's pay to the $200K range by selling back the HUNDREDS of days of sick time and vacation they never used and never lost? And when that happens, they get to retire at a percentage of their final year's salary? Then spend another 15-20 years getting a second paycheck at the public trough, like this guy?
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20130122-NEWS-130129924
And consider that out in Commiefornia, there are retired cops making over $200K/year. Think about that.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21438816/bay-areas-250k-club-government-retirees-wont-be
Wow...I wasn't aware that sick leave/vacation could accumulate like that. The jobs I have had you had to use it or lose it...you could only roll over 1 years worth.
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For regular citizens like you and I it isn't allowed. If you're a government employee, by all means, go for it! I've seen I don't know how many cases of cops/firefighters/etc. who retire between 45-50 with a $60K/year pension, turn right around and jump on another government job for another $60-100K/year.
Not a bad deal if you can get it.
As someone else has mentioned down thread you have to be careful not to broad brush this issue. For example a DOD cop or firefighter got to retire earlier but IIRC they were not anywhere as generously paid as some "civilian" public union counter parts and the retirement computations were not based on lump sum payout for sick leave. this is a big difference when you average high three years.
They also pay an additional amount into their retirement. (see here: http://www.dodfire.com/Retiremant/cpms_retire_guidance.pdf )
As far as the offsets for former CSRS employees you have a very complex system which pretty much ensures Federal Government employees cannot game the system and collect more Social Security because they show lower earnings (Social Security is a regressive system which actually pays proportionally more to lower earners than higher ones.) What happened before the wind fall retirement act was people would work just long enough to be covered by Social (40 quarters ) then collect the maximum benefit regardless of their other CSRS pension. The correction to the system corrected one problem but created others
Today of course Federal Employees hired after 1983 are covered under FERS which is a highbred system that includes Social Security, a defined employer contribution, and a voluntary '401' type matching account. They have been talking about changing high three to high five but I have not been following that closely so I do not know where they stand on it.
Local government largess should not be confused with Federal. Not all local governments give away the candy store but many like Detroit do. It should also be noted that there are many people who find they are not eligible for full SSI because they receive a State pension. When in doubt check it out.
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Yeah, and I (and my employer) have been paying into a retirement that I'll likely never see, or will certainly never recoup in my lifetime.
It's already projected that as an "average" person at the age of 45, you'll see about 85-90 percent of what you and your employer paid into SS. But here's the catch--the more you earn/pay in, the smaller the percentage you'll see back, so if you max out (as I have for several years now) you'll see an even smaller percentage.
Negative 20 percent rate of return? Where the hell do I sign up! Frankly, if they told me even today that I could stop contributing to SS but not get it when I retired, I'd be like, "When can I start not paying?" If you as a private employer tried this kind of retirement plan (like SS) you'd be in the cell next to Bernie Madoff.
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Actually, I think I picked pretty good examples--why the hell should a cop with 20 years at age 45 get to boost his final year's pay to the $200K range by selling back the HUNDREDS of days of sick time and vacation they never used and never lost? And when that happens, they get to retire at a percentage of their final year's salary? Then spend another 15-20 years getting a second paycheck at the public trough, like this guy?
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20130122-NEWS-130129924
And consider that out in Commiefornia, there are retired cops making over $200K/year. Think about that.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21438816/bay-areas-250k-club-government-retirees-wont-be
And there are retired/disabled cops & firefighters making a lot less. I know some.
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Actually, I think I picked pretty good examples--why the hell should a cop with 20 years at age 45 get to boost his final year's pay to the $200K range by selling back the HUNDREDS of days of sick time and vacation they never used and never lost? And when that happens, they get to retire at a percentage of their final year's salary?
It's a common practice in local government over here for officials to get very large pay-rises for their last couple of years precisely because the pension is a percentage of final salary. Their bosses are happy to sign it off because they'll get the same treatment in turn, and the councils don't worry as they only have to pay the higher salary for a year whereas the pension fund is national...
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Wow...I wasn't aware that sick leave/vacation could accumulate like that. The jobs I have had you had to use it or lose it...you could only roll over 1 years worth.
Jumping on zeitgeist post to relate to yours. There is use or lose at the federal level too. 240 hours max carryover of leave a year so even if you sit for your first 2 years you will have to start using by your 3 rd year or lose it. I do not believe the sick time is included in any computation for retirement or paid out.
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Jumping on zeitgeist post to relate to yours. There is use or lose at the federal level too. 240 hours max carryover of leave a year so even if you sit for your first 2 years you will have to start using by your 3 rd year or lose it. I do not believe the sick time is included in any computation for retirement or paid out.
Sick leave when I retired was applied to total time worked (I actually received credit for an additional half year of service based on SL). I seem to remember the conversion as about a half year added to your total years for each 'year' of sick leave. The advantage to maintaining a high balance of SL was that of not having to go without a paycheck if you were sick for a long period of time. I am not sure if they have changed the accumulation on SL or not but when I retired you could accumulate as much SL as you wanted. With annual you could carry 240 and if you managed things correctly the entire year of retirement could be added (8x26=208) for a total payout of 448 in annual but that was not used in high three computations and you took good a tax hit on it. With all the holidays and things like comp time that was not difficult to do while having plenty of time off with creative use of sick leave which wouldn't be converted.
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Firemen and police have tough jobs, but they aren't really under-compensated. They have reasonable salaries, great benefits, much of the time they can make as much as they want with overtime, and their retirements are unparalleled.
Over the years, I've known a handful of firemen and one cop. They've since retired early and every single one is on a disability retirement. I can't judge their disability, but they don't seem limited. One of them bought a boat and is a charter captain on Lake Erie. Two of them I deer hunt with, and compared to me they're still athletes.
I thought of this when I read an article that said seventy-five percent of retired New York firemen draw disability pensions. Guys get hurt on the job, even killed, but seventy-five percent? And remember these guys retire so young they're drawing the pension twice as long as a social security or private company retiree.
That's the main reason democrat hellholes are going belly up.
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Wow...I wasn't aware that sick leave/vacation could accumulate like that. The jobs I have had you had to use it or lose it...you could only roll over 1 years worth.
My last job was carry forward three days maximum; that's pretty standard over here, though often there's scope for negotiation if there's a reason to carry forward.
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The one comment that caught the eye.
elleng (41,773 posts) Fri Jul 26, 2013, 11:30 PM
1. I don't understand, don't know the official procedures, but sounds like something's amiss. Maybe to do with Survivor's benefits you were previously entitled to?
I retired around 2007, and started receiving SocSec. (Small amount as most of my working years had been as Fed. Govt. employee under CSRS, so didn't pay into SocSec.) Also received Fed Govt. pension.
Husband, also a Federal govt employee, passed May 15, 2013, I applied for Soc Sec Survivor's benefit about a month ago, and received it immediately.
I suggest you check with your attorney, find out to what extent s/he understands SocSec.
In other words, a leech that never earned it.
Didn't pay into SS, yet draws it. Deceased husband also didn't pay in, and she draws more SS benefits right along with Fed. pension.
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The one comment that caught the eye.In other words, a leech that never earned it.
Didn't pay into SS, yet draws it. Deceased husband also didn't pay in, and she draws more SS benefits right along with Fed. pension.
And rather than dry hump the Tea Party with their shenanigans the IRS could run programs that identify potential double dippers like this one. It would be pretty simple to construct the arguments considering they are all tied on the same key (social security number aka ssn).
Of course this leech may get a demand letter if and when they are deemed ineligible. It does happen albeit infrequently. Proper programing could insure it happens much more frequently. Social and AA promotions in the IT world are a large part of the problem. I have known senior ITs who couldn't program a computer if you gave them a boot with code written on the sole. :thatsright: They hire contractors. Lots of contractors.
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Sick leave when I retired was applied to total time worked (I actually received credit for an additional half year of service based on SL). I seem to remember the conversion as about a half year added to your total years for each 'year' of sick leave. The advantage to maintaining a high balance of SL was that of not having to go without a paycheck if you were sick for a long period of time. I am not sure if they have changed the accumulation on SL or not but when I retired you could accumulate as much SL as you wanted. With annual you could carry 240 and if you managed things correctly the entire year of retirement could be added (8x26=208) for a total payout of 448 in annual but that was not used in high three computations and you took good a tax hit on it. With all the holidays and things like comp time that was not difficult to do while having plenty of time off with creative use of sick leave which wouldn't be converted.
Thx zeitgeist. I'm but a babe in the woods in this stuff:)
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And rather than dry hump the Tea Party with their shenanigans the IRS could run programs that identify potential double dippers like this one. It would be pretty simple to construct the arguments considering they are all tied on the same key (social security number aka ssn).
Of course this leech may get a demand letter if and when they are deemed ineligible. It does happen albeit infrequently. Proper programing could insure it happens much more frequently. Social and AA promotions in the IT world are a large part of the problem. I have known senior ITs who couldn't program a computer if you gave them a boot with code written on the sole. :thatsright: They hire contractors. Lots of contractors.
The 8088 chips can only do so much.
Naturally, "sequesture" prevented them upgrading to the new 386 series. Ya, ya, I probably spelled that wrong.