The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Economics => Topic started by: debk on July 18, 2013, 12:23:13 PM
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I'm a registered Realtor on a site where lenders look for Realtors to provide services for their REO - foreclosure- properties. These are properties that are at various stages in the system... 2 consecutive months missed payments, pre-foreclosure - more than 3 mos consecutively missed, foreclosure, short sale, "in lieu of deed" (turning the keys over to the lender and walking away from house and any equity in it).
In the last couple of months... I have been getting emails, almost every week, regarding different lenders and what's going on with their holdings, and being asked to sign up to be available to specific lenders.
This is part of one that came today...
Bank of America to release more REOs in the next 2 years!
Bank of America asset managers have made it very clear that a large new flow of REOs will be hitting the market soon, and they'll need an entire new fleet of REO Brokers, Agents and Vendors to service them. For the past few years, Bank of America began new programs to help home owners stay in their homes, and some of those programs worked, but for the majority of the REOs that were just waiting to get through the system, they are now coming!
Last month, I got one regarding HUD loans - not to be confused with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. The HUD one said there were 1.5 MILLION HOMES already in the REO pipeline. Granted this was across the country, but that is still a whole lot of houses. These are houses that have already been determined the homeowner is unable to make the up the difference in missed payments and have either already abandoned the properties, or they have yet to be evicted, but it's going to happen.
I have had similar emails regarding CitiMortgage and JPMorgan Chase. Those two, like BofA, did not mention specific orders.
I did over 50 reports last month. Most of them on houses that were still occupied. I've done over 20 already this month, and have 5 more to complete by tomorrow afternoon. Of the 4, one is a short sale, one has already been taken back by the bank, the other 3 are still owner-occupied. 2 are in the upper $300-low 400,000 range.
For reference - the $400,000 one is 3029SF(not counting 3rd flr), all brick, 2.5 stories, 3c garage, .62acre lot, 4br's, 3.5 baths, built in 2006, view of the Smoky Mountains. You can get a realllly nice house here for $400k!
In my county only - none of the surrounding ones - there are 540 houses currently on the market that are $400,000 +. Of those 540, 183 of them are over $700,000. Of those 540, 86 are over ONE MILLION DOLLARS. I recognize, that every area of the country is different, but here in this county, we don't HAVE anywhere near 540 buyers looking in for a house between $400,000 and $1M + !!! It gets even worse, when if you check the entire MLS for this area, there are 1528 houses over $400K, with 190 of them over $1M!!!
Industry reports that I have received - at least once a week, state that 2 out of every 3 homeowners are either behind in their mortgage payments and/or underwater in their mortgage, which means even if they can sell their home, they wouldn't be able to sell it for enough to pay off the mortgage note.
Yes... houses have been selling around here. According to industry reports and the news media... homes are selling everywhere. National Association of Realtors currently has an ad on television, telling buyers to "act now, there is a shortage of available properties". Not sure where, it certainly isn't here, but it has to be somewhere, or they could be cited and sued for false advertising, and the NAR, isn't that stupid!
But how many of those selling are fair market (no distress) compared with distressed properties. I could cite multiple mls designated areas here (certain area of town, small community, etc), where foreclosure sales are 30%+ of the total solds in the last 180 days, some exceed 50%. All it takes is for a few foreclosures to hit one subdivsion and fair market pricing will be affected in that subdivision.
The Feds raised interest rates a week or so ago. This is turn caused home mortgage interest rates to go up one entire point, which is something like the highest one time jomp in close to 30 years. (that doesn't sound right but it's was was reported). Why in the hell, when the housing industry is trying to make any sort of comeback, would the Feds/mortgage lenders raise the interest rate on home mortgages? It makes no sense whatsoever...
Based on the number of reports I am doing, and I am not the only one in the area, I know of at least one other agent doing as many per month or more than I do... there are a whole bunch of houses in trouble here. And this cannot be the only area in Tennessee, let alone the country, with numbers like ours. If Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, HUD and the major lenders - BofA, Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo - and all the smaller ones, including local community banks - start dumping all their REO properties on the market over the next 6-12 months, this country will be in a world of hurt damn quick. And I don't think they(lenders/banks) will let the government talk them into waiting until after the 2014 elections, to do so, like they were supposedly told to do prior to the 2012 elections.
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I don't think Mrs E and I are "underwater", but it's pretty damned close.
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I don't think Mrs E and I are "underwater", but it's pretty damned close.
I'm so glad I paid ours off with some of the estate I got when my mom died in 2000.
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We are within a year or 2 of paying off our house, depending on how much we overpay our monthly mortgage. Not having that mortgage payment will be a big relief, and make us totally debt free.
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I don't think Mrs E and I are "underwater", but it's pretty damned close.
I hope not, for your sake. But if you can stay there a few more years, and hope for the best....
The house I'm doing that's the 3029SF? It was new construction and sold in early 2006 for $405,000.
I've already pulled the comps on it. All have views of the Smokies.
All 3 lists are in the subdivision. All 3 are all brick, 3 car garage, 2.5 story, 2 have 3.5 baths, the other one has 4.5. List 1 is 3226SF listed for $399,900 - 85 days on market. List 2 is 3072SF, (it's next door to list 1!) is also $399,900 and on market for 85 days, it has an IG pool, corian countertops, mahogany cabinets, hardwoods throughout first floor, projection tv in media room conveys. Same list agent(how dumb is that!), both were built in 2006, both have SS appls and ref conveys. List 3 is 3079SF & built in 2007, listed for $317,500, 108 DoM. (different list agent/company), new trek deck, SS appls - ref not included.
There are 4 other current lists in the subdivision... but the above ones are closest in SF to my subject.
Only one sold in the subdivision in last 180 days. 3176 SF, 3 c garage, built in 2007, 3.5 baths, al brick, SS appls, "beautifully appointed". Original list price - $364,000. On market for 244 days. Sold for $286,500. That's 78.5% of original list price! They paid for $349,900 in Dec'09, it was first sale after being on market for 2 years.
There wasn't another sold until May, 2012. Again, it was brick, 3c gar. 3029SF, corian and cherry cabinets, 3.5 baths, listed for $329,900, 9 DoM, sold for $315,000. They paid $348,000 , when it was built in 2007.
Both solds were fair market, no distress.
Based on the sold comps I am using - list comps are only for comparable properties currently on the market - I end up with between $292,000 to $307,000. I can only go back 180 days, so I will use the one in the subject's subdivision, and 2 from outside but within 3 miles, same community, moutain views. Both built in 2007, all brick, 3 c garages. Lots are a bit bigger, but construction quality is quite similar. One has a finished basement giving a total of 4735SF, it sold for $338,500, last month.
Basically... house comps out $100,000 LESS than what the homeowner paid for it 7 years ago. And there is nothing to make the numbers any better!
For this particular client, it's safe to assume homeowner is either late on payments or need to get out - also house has not been listed either as fair market or a short sale... homeowner is very limited in their choices. They will either have to get caught up - or with a whole lot of luck, be able to refinance - or they will be foreclosed or they may have a choice of turning in their deed and walking away. Lender may opt to let them try to short sale, because if it goes on market as a foreclosure, it will probably be somewhere between $235,000-$250,000, though more likely to be on the lower end, if it's undamaged.
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Yeah, we'll be here for a few more years. The housing market's been shit, as far as I'm concerned, for 9 years now, so I have no expectation that the sun will break through the clouds anytime soon, if ever.
We're just gonna slog through and continue paying our mortgage, on time and to the penny.
With this market and in my set of circumstances, it makes no sense to pay down on the mortgage. We will be unassing this place, but I have roughly 5 years left till final retirement. And even after retirement, there's nobody holding a gun to my head to move (therefore we won't) until the numbers start looking at least a little favorable.
Right now, fuggedaboudit. :whatever:
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debk,
Can you give a "ball park" figure for real estate taxes on the above ?
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I bought at the peak in 2006, so I'm pretty sure I'm under, but thankfully not TOO much.
That being said, houses are selling, but 1--not the higher end stuff, 2--mostly cash sales (retirees) and 3--not anywhere NEAR what the owners think they deserve.
Bottom line, you can sell your house, but you're not going to get nearly what you think it's worth. My place when I bought it was assessed for $255K. It's now assessed at $208K. It's worth more, but by the time I pay for all the inspections, get anything fixed, broker commissions, transaction taxes, etc., I might as well just sit on the place for a while.
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I bought at the peak in 2006, so I'm pretty sure I'm under, but thankfully not TOO much.
That being said, houses are selling, but 1--not the higher end stuff, 2--mostly cash sales (retirees) and 3--not anywhere NEAR what the owners think they deserve.
Bottom line, you can sell your house, but you're not going to get nearly what you think it's worth. My place when I bought it was assessed for $255K. It's now assessed at $208K. It's worth more, but by the time I pay for all the inspections, get anything fixed, broker commissions, transaction taxes, etc., I might as well just sit on the place for a while.
A lot of bailed out owebuma voters and bundlers got the money you should be getting.
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debk,
Can you give a "ball park" figure for real estate taxes on the above ?
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The taxes on the house I was doing the report on? Not ballpark, but specific - 2012 tax yr - $1558. Current tax assessment for it is $382,500. House is located in Sevier County TN (home to Dollywood).
It's in the Seymour community where Knox, Blount and Sevier Counties all meet, so a house/subdivision could be in any one of the counties, and some subdivisions overlap into another county. It's not in the "country", but people like it down there, cause it "feels like the country", without being in "Outer Bumf'k Egypt"! Most houses in the subdivision have a view of Smokies. 15 minutes to downtown Knoxville and Univ of TN. 20 minutes (depending on traffic) to mountains, Douglas Lake. 20-30 minutes to Lake Loudon. Watts Bar, Norris Lake, and Tellico Lake are not too far away either. You want lakes, or mountains covered in trees, we gots them! :)
East TN also is the worst place in the country for meth makers/dealers/users... so going out into the country, may not be the best idea... :(
When I got the report done... using current market and within the last 180 days, pricing was right around $300K. $105,000 LESS than they paid for it. Sad... :rant:
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The taxes on the house I was doing the report on? Not ballpark, but specific - 2012 tax yr - $1558. Current tax assessment for it is $382,500. House is located in Sevier County TN (home to Dollywood).
It's in the Seymour community where Knox, Blount and Sevier Counties all meet, so a house/subdivision could be in any one of the counties, and some subdivisions overlap into another county. It's not in the "country", but people like it down there, cause it "feels like the country", without being in "Outer Bumf'k Egypt"! Most houses in the subdivision have a view of Smokies. 15 minutes to downtown Knoxville and Univ of TN. 20 minutes (depending on traffic) to mountains, Douglas Lake. 20-30 minutes to Lake Loudon. Watts Bar, Norris Lake, and Tellico Lake are not too far away either. You want lakes, or mountains covered in trees, we gots them! :)
East TN also is the worst place in the country for meth makers/dealers/users... so going out into the country, may not be the best idea... :(
When I got the report done... using current market and within the last 180 days, pricing was right around $300K. $105,000 LESS than they paid for it. Sad... :rant:
THANKS !
My house is now going for about $280,000 - 2600sf, but just before the collapse one neighbor sold for $348,000. My taxes are just south of $9,000/yr, so 2012 tax yr - $1558 sounds like a real bargain.
I did a search for Knoxville area and it looks great but I don't know if I could convince my wife. :-)
Thanks again.
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Deb, I'd really like for you to be my realtor.
But with things this way, we ain't movin' nowhere for a very, very long time. If you were to run comps for me, I'd most likely have to sell below the current value of the note, and that puts me under water for sure.
Ain't gonna do it. I'll just continue wearing scuba gear. :whatever:
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THANKS !
My house is now going for about $280,000 - 2600sf, but just before the collapse one neighbor sold for $348,000. My taxes are just south of $9,000/yr, so 2012 tax yr - $1558 sounds like a real bargain.
I did a search for Knoxville area and it looks great but I don't know if I could convince my wife. :-)
Thanks again.
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Almost 9k a year? Ouch!!!
We also don't have state income tax.... :wink:;.
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Almost 9k a year? Ouch!!!
We also don't have state income tax.... :wink:;.
:banghead: I'm trapped in Dummy land. :bawl:
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Almost 9k a year? Ouch!!!
We also don't have state income tax.... :wink:;.
My property taxes are just above $5K/year.
But not only do I have no income tax, there's no sales tax here either.
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My property taxes are just above $5K/year.
But not only do I have no income tax, there's no sales tax here either.
A wonderful friend of mine bought a double wide home for $ 95,000 back 15 years ago. Beautiful home all new everything, 3 bedrooms, 2 full baths, family room, You name it has it.
She was on leased land as I am, and a few years ago her part of the our Village began to explode with teenagers as the darling little kids grew up to become Monsters.
She got fed up and one day came to say Good By, she was moving. I asked who she had sold her home to and she blew my mind. She had not sold her home, she had bought land up in NY state, and was bringing her home with her. " My home came in, in 2 pieces and will go out in 2 pieces."
Cost to transport her home from the NH sea coast to western NY $10,000. No one knew we could do this, we assumed once our homes were in place they could not be moved.
It is good to know that if one loves their home it can be moved when the neighborhood changes and is the major reason I do not want to buy a standing home.
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So, just like here in Cali, buying a home at an inflated price just because the loan rates are good.............. :thatsright:
I'm glad I bought our place at a low point. :hyper:
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My property taxes are just above $5K/year.
But not only do I have no income tax, there's no sales tax here either.
Our property tax is about $47K/year for 3/4 acre, with no sewers or water supply, just the Barney Fife county cops (if and when they get here) and a volunteer fire department; and we also have a state income tax; and one of the highest sales taxes in the country. We don't use Chicago, but it has the HIGHEST sals tax in the country.
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Our property tax is about $47K/year for 3/4 acre, with no sewers or water supply, just the Barney Fife county cops (if and when they get here) and a volunteer fire department; and we also have a state income tax; and one of the highest sales taxes in the country. We don't use Chicago, but it has the HIGHEST sals tax in the country.
You can't be serious.
Property tax of $47,000? That's beyond obscene. I'm wondering if that's a typo?
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You can't be serious.
Property tax of $47,000? That's beyond obscene. I'm wondering if that's a typo?
I blew it. :shrug: I forgot the period......................... :argh:
$4.7K/year, or $4700/year.
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Example for comparison... the property taxes on this place are $7100 for this year. This is in the county.
Built in 1998, it has 7323SF, 13 rms, 4 brs, 5 baths, 2 half baths, boat dock, IG pool, hot tub, finished basement with billard room and bar, 3c garage, all on 1.3 acres. Extremely nice subdivision, 5 minutes to interstate access, 5 minutes to shopping, elementary school, 15 min to middle and high schools. 20-30 minutes to University and downtown depending on traffic.
List price - $1,890,000.
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909662)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909670)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909679)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909681)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909684)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909693)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909697)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909694)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909703)
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(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5808094)
Taxes on this one are $4657 for this year. Also in the county, but near county line. Further out than the one above, but 1/2 mile to marina one way, 1/2 mile to waterfront park another. Schoolsm, shopping, interstate are 15 minutes.
List price $995,000. 6096SF, no basement, 3 c gar, .83ac, 12r/5br/5ba/2hba. built in 2006.
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My parents used to live in Wilson County, TN. Taxes on their $350k home were around $5000 a year.
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I have a 1k sq. ft. brick home recently appraised at $140k in Baton Rouge, and my taxes are $74 per year. Seniors can get their taxes frozen at 65 years of age. Sales tax is 9% and income tax is very low. My brother's tax on his 2500 Sq. ft. house is around $500. Louisiana has low overall taxes. Taxes on a beach condo run me almost $2k.
The housing market is booming once again on beach condos from Gulf Shores, AL to Destin, FL. and so are the prices.
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Example for comparison... the property taxes on this place are $7100 for this year. This is in the county.
Built in 1998, it has 7323SF, 13 rms, 4 brs, 5 baths, 2 half baths, boat dock, IG pool, hot tub, finished basement with billard room and bar, 3c garage, all on 1.3 acres. Extremely nice subdivision, 5 minutes to interstate access, 5 minutes to shopping, elementary school, 15 min to middle and high schools. 20-30 minutes to University and downtown depending on traffic.
List price - $1,890,000.
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909662)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909670)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909679)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909681)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909684)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909693)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909697)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909694)
(http://fs.realfocus.com/GetThumbnail.aspx?t=l&bs=4&w=512&h=400&bgc=000000&id=5909703)
debk, all I can think of after seeing this listing is, who on earth would want to live in something like that. Unless one has 2 sets of triplets this is more of a fancy resort hotel then a HOME.
Really, some of the wealthiest people I know spend as little money as possible. They drive 5 year old cars, sell their boats when the docking fees get to $20,000 a year and live in homes that do not need an intercom system to find family members.
A acquaintance of mine decided to sell her home and had to fill in the back yard pool to keep taxes and insurance reasonable. She a widow sold out , moved into a senior building to a owned apartment with 2 bedrooms. She has access to the community pool down town transportation and 2 parking spaces.
She is so much happier when family comes to visit, she no longer has to wander about a large house wondering where everyone else has gone to.
We are down sizing for convenience up here, Some are turning their boat houses into homes, along the lines of the Japanese mini apartments.
Only makes sense that with today's life style, kids in school, parents both working, just how much time do we spend in our homes ?
$1,890,000 + taxes + maintenance + cost of maids and garners, pool cleaners and child care after say 5 years one is paying up the snoot at close to $3,000 per night if not more just to have a place to eat, sleep and spend 2 hours a day with the kids. Hell the help raises the kids not the parents.
Was it not said that Princess Diana became jealous that her boys were closer to their Nanny then to her.
So we, hubby and I have a full guest bath , 2 back bedrooms used for storage of JUNK a family room we never use-------We live in the living room, the dining room, kitchen and back bed room with a large attached bathroom.
Now we are never that far from a call out from each other. I would love to sell out to buy a much smaller home, perhaps a Geodesic Dome or log cabin on a lake.
One even if giving me a tax free gift of this home would not want it, no way could we clean the top windows in a place like that and I would have to put in 8 hours a day just vaccumming up cat hair.
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Texas has some really nice homes that are reasonable, but their property taxes and utilities are high. Guess that's what happens when you don't have a state income tax......they have to get it from somewhere.
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Vesta... the only reason I posted that house, was to show what property taxes are down here on a house like that, and how low our property taxes are in comparison with other parts of the country.
There are a couple of things I like about the house - the location, the kitchen, and the pool. The rest, like you said - is like a hotel and too perfect. There were several other pictures, and not a one of them showed a place to curl up with a book, a blankie, and one's cat or dog.... not my idea of HOME.
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Vesta... the only reason I posted that house, was to show what property taxes are down here on a house like that, and how low our property taxes are in comparison with other parts of the country.
There are a couple of things I like about the house - the location, the kitchen, and the pool. The rest, like you said - is like a hotel and too perfect. There were several other pictures, and not a one of them showed a place to curl up with a book, a blankie, and one's cat or dog.... not my idea of HOME.
I love that kitchen, but I do not like the price tag. And you're right - the property taxes are very reasonable for the cost of the home -- assessed value being much less than the price, of course.
Oh, and the presence of a pool is an automatic deal-breaker for me. I do not want a pool and won't even consider buying a house that has one.
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We just had about 200 people laid off from my company (mortgage business) last week. That included our location and our locations in Illinois, Minnesota, and Iowa. There are rumors of more layoffs to come. We have been so slow. We work with the smaller lenders who sell their loans to us to clear their pipeline so they can do more business. It's just not looking good. It would be nice if things would pick up again, but I don't see that happening for awhile. We have a lot of changes coming up for that financial reform in 2014 too. I'm not sure how that's going to help business. Guess we will find out soon.
It's interesting to note that we got even slower at work a week or so after the interest rates went up. Our news update always talks up the sales of homes in this area, but then notes, "and all of these sales are cash investors..."... same old, same old here in Las Vegas. Things seem good because there is a boom of construction going on again, but I know where that led last time.
Since I am now in the mortgage business, I'll just suck it up and try to get through it like everyone else seems to do who have been in this industry for decades. As long as I don't get laid off, I'll be happy.
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New houses are selling here too.
Problem is, people move out of the old house into new construction, and old house doesn't sell... or first time buyers who can afford it, go for new construction.. and all the other houses just sit on the market.
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I'm confused Deb! We just visited a time share in the Smokies and they said property sales are going through the roof! :panic: :rofl:
Love that area! We visit every few months.
For what it's worth, the next mountain range over appears to have a different market condition. Prices are sky high and even bidding wars have broken out. Granted, I believe that it's only certain neighborhoods.
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I'm confused Deb! We just visited a time share in the Smokies and they said property sales are going through the roof! :panic: :rofl:
Love that area! We visit every few months.
For what it's worth, the next mountain range over appears to have a different market condition. Prices are sky high and even bidding wars have broken out. Granted, I believe that it's only certain neighborhoods.
Kind of depends on where you go up there.
I'm nearest the Sevierville, Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg area to the east, which is in Sevier County(home of Dolly Parton), or Townsend/Walland in Blount County, to the south.
There have been some beautiful cabins built up in the S/PF/G area, with very high price tags. And a whole bunch of them have gone on the foreclosure market in the last 2-3 yrs....you go in and the lamp shades still have the price tags and plastic wrap on them! They have never been lived in and are totally furnished down to fully equipped kitchens, tv's, pool tables, etc. Only thing missing are sheets, towels and food. When all these first started going into foreclosure, per the lenders instructions - the listing agent had to have the entire place emptied out!! And the trashout person - who was paid by lender to trash it out - also got the profit/cost of disposing the items!!!! Finally the lenders got smart, and started selling the ones that were so brand new, with the furnishings intact.
Also, as of a couple of years ago, any values over $600, trash out person is "supposed" to list and provide a picture to the lender. As to how that's working out, I honestly have no idea. The trashout guy I used to use, got himself listed as an individual vendor to the company I contracted with, so all of his costs and stuff went straight from him to the company. One of the reasons I don't do foreclosures anymore, is because the list agent has to pay all costs out of pocket - trashout, lock change/boarding up, utilities(put in the agent's name, not the lender), yard maintenance, winterization - and, with some lenders (or 3rd party company that deals with the entire foreclosure process from the moment the lender takes the property back on courthouse steps through selling and closing out the property), the agent is not paid until AFTER the closing. I know agents that have outstanding bills to lenders up in the $15-20,000 range! I can't, nor am I willing! to do that. The worst I was in for was $2000 and it was horrible... and it was all due to the local utility company - in my name! That was back when the bills were paid directly by the lender (not anymore!) and they were slow to pay. After that, I always found a reason to not turn on the utlities. Mine got that high on one house because there was a water leak in the huge front yard, that was sloped and being absorded before it hit the street...no way to know there was a leak until the bill came. The utility company said "too bad, so sad - pay up!"
Back to the "bidding wars" possibilities....
In the S/PF/G area, these are the stats for the last 180 days. (time frame lenders use)
Currently for Single Family Dwellings - this does not include condo or PUD..
Active lists - 759 ranging from $25,900 to $2,700,00
176 days on market - averaged
Solds in last 180 days - 199
210 DoM -averaged
Foreclosures in last 180 days - 45 currently active
73 sold
Last 30 days sold - 24 total
7 foreclosures incl in those 24
Currently for Condo/PUD
Active - 141
184 DoM
Sold - 48
217 DoM
Foreclosure - 17 Active
13 Sold
Last 30 Days - 3 Sold
0 Foreclosure
In the Townsend/Walland area
Single Family Dwellings...
Active - 211 ranging from $22,000 to $1,994,000
170 DoM
Sold - 75
159 DoM
Foreclosure - Active - 8
Sold - 12
Last 30 days - 7
1 Foreclosure
My mls does have a category for Timeshares, but there is nothing listed in it for the above areas for the last 180 days. That does not mean there aren't any, they just aren't in the Knoxville Area MLS.
Not sure what constitutes "going through the roof", but I have heard other agents here say the same about the market here in town. Compared to how sales have been the last couple of years? Yes, that would be an appropriate statement. However, compared with what is on the market.... there's a couple of years supply out there.
One thing agents have noticed around here, and I'm seeing it in the work I do...is how many cash sales there are lately. I'm talking about houses in excess of $1-500,000! From what I'm hearing from agents, there are a lot of people moving in from up north. MI, PA, NY, NJ, etc. They are selling their homes, taking the cash and moving south, because the cost of living is so much cheaper, and there are jobs here. Not high paying exec ones, but there are a lot in the $9-13/hr. For a person that has retired in their 50's/early 60's, and have retirement money coming in, and want something to do... that's not bad, especially if they can get benefits. Caremark, ADT, JTV, Talbots Catalog, Whirlpool, Marriott, all have big call centers here, and they love older employees because they show up and most don't have to be taught phone etiquette. Surrounding counties are getting new businesses too.
In the last couple of years, the retail market around here has really changed - wonderfully so as far as I'm concerned! Trader Joe's, Publix, Aeropostle, Pottery Barn have all come in the last year. Whole Foods, Urban Outfitters, and Anthropologie are all coming in - all but Whole Foods have started on structures. These are all stores from more "sophisticated" areas than Knoxville. And are an indication of how the area is changing due to influence from "outsiders" (bless them!!!!) Lot of people and companies moving in to East Tn, Nashville, and Chattanooga areas.
Things may have changed in the last few years, but cross over into NC and the prices go up. Particularly the closer you get to Asheville. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of members here that live in that area and they have way more knowledge about their local real estate costs/values than I do. It's been 30 yrs since I lived in Asheville just a few months, and it was expensive then. JohnnyReb in near the mountains on the SC side and he would know the costs over there. NC economy seems to be doing well, too, with large companies headquartering there.
I should be working for the Chamber of Commerce... :thatsright: :rofl:
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I'm confused Deb! We just visited a time share in the Smokies and they said property sales are going through the roof! :panic: :rofl:
Love that area! We visit every few months.
For what it's worth, the next mountain range over appears to have a different market condition. Prices are sky high and even bidding wars have broken out. Granted, I believe that it's only certain neighborhoods.
If it were me I would do a great deal of research before I bought a time share. My ex bought one in the French Quarter. It went belly up and she lost all of her money. Several of Donald Trump's new construction projects have went down the tube.
I assume when you buy a time share, you own a piece of that property. With owning property, maintenance has to be performed such as replacement of AC, new roofs, painting, furniture, appliances. Stuff wears out and somebody has to pay to repair or replace. Property taxes is another expense.
I lucked up when I bought a condo as an investment last year. The building had just been renovated and I got a great property manager who lives in the area and is involved in the maintenance. You will be at the mercy of the HOA though. They can charge $20 to change a light bulb or $50 to unstop a toilet. Assessments are common place for condos.
I think Wyndham owns/sells more time shares than anyone. From what I have read, you are very lucky if you sell it for what you paid for it. There many time share for sales on the market. Hope this helps.
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If it were me I would do a great deal of research before I bought a time share. My ex bought one in the French Quarter. It went belly up and she lost all of her money. Several of Donald Trump's new construction projects have went down the tube.
I assume when you buy a time share, you own a piece of that property. With owning property, maintenance has to be performed such as replacement of AC, new roofs, painting, furniture, appliances. Stuff wears out and somebody has to pay to repair or replace. Property taxes is another expense.
I lucked up when I bought a condo as an investment last year. The building had just been renovated and I got a great property manager who lives in the area and is involved in the maintenance. You will be at the mercy of the HOA though. They can charge $20 to change a light bulb or $50 to unstop a toilet. Assessments are common place for condos.
I think Wyndham owns/sells more time shares than anyone. From what I have read, you are very lucky if you sell it for what you paid for it. There many time share for sales on the market. Hope this helps.
Oh, I had not interest in buying a time share. With limited exception the whole concept seems a bit ridiculous to me. Although the RCI benefits alone may be worth considering at times. Just every now and than, I'll succumb to the entertaining two hours of a horrendous sales pitch - since they typically are offering a couple hundred in cash to sit through it.
You're absolutely spot on, there are time shares regularly on Ebay for merely a dollar or so just begging for someone to take them off their hands to get out of the annual reoccurring fees.
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Looks like a lot of people are reading this...so I will mention it here...
The other half broker's manufacturing machinery. He has several customers who cannot find people who are qualified, willing to work 5 days out of 7, and can pass a drug test. He's placed ads in the local papers and doesn't even get a response...
One is particular, has more work lined up than he has employees to get the work done. He can't find anyone to even interview. He's paying $22.50/hr, I don't know what the benefits are. His company is northeast of Knoxville, in a small town but pretty town. Cost of living is lower than Knoxville, go outside of town, and it's even lower. (BFF's daughter & SIL just moved up there about 20 miles away, got a 2800 SF house, 1 acre, 4 br, 2.5 bath, 3 c gar, huge kit with granite counters, hardwoods throughout first flr for $200,000.)
Back to the plant owner.... he's looking for machinists in particular (press type stuff - I'm hoping a qualified person understands this description better than me. I know what they make and describe it), also tool & dye. M was up there yesterday to see him, and the owner told him he had his people working all weekend, because they can't get all the work done during the week.
This is just one customer looking, he has several others that are too. High schools don't teach this type of work down here, there aren't vocational schools except for ITT, and nobody wants to learn...
If you know anyone, who - seriously -wants to move to E TN and does this kind of work, send me a pm and I will get the information to you.
Told M there are a lot of people here, and I have no idea what most do for a living, but it was worth a try....
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High schools don't teach this type of work down here, there aren't vocational schools except for ITT, and nobody wants to learn...
Government schools don't teach jobs in the skilled labor sector anywhere any more.
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Government schools don't teach jobs in the skilled labor sector anywhere any more.
Sure they do.
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Sure they do.
When my kids were in HS, the HS had Electronics I & II... and I only know that because my son took I as an elective, and they moved him into II the 3rd day of class. He graduated back in 2000.
One of my daughter's classmates, who is the son of a former co-worker, took 2 auto mechanic/ car building type class. They graduated in '97 and he got the first ever full ride scholarship to a well-known school in TX, for auto-mechanic and from there went straight to BMW and a $50K a year job.
I don't know if my kids' HS still has auto mechanics, but I know there is at least one HS in the area that does, because there was a big deal on the news last spring - spring before? - that the kids' car was in some contest for electric/hybrid cars.
I do know that many of the surrounding counties' schools do not have any type of "shop" courses. There just isn't the money for them. Heck, some of them can't even afford to have school buses.. :(
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When my kids were in HS, the HS had Electronics I & II... and I only know that because my son took I as an elective, and they moved him into II the 3rd day of class. He graduated back in 2000.
One of my daughter's classmates, who is the son of a former co-worker, took 2 auto mechanic/ car building type class. They graduated in '97 and he got the first ever full ride scholarship to a well-known school in TX, for auto-mechanic and from there went straight to BMW and a $50K a year job.
I don't know if my kids' HS still has auto mechanics, but I know there is at least one HS in the area that does, because there was a big deal on the news last spring - spring before? - that the kids' car was in some contest for electric/hybrid cars.
I do know that many of the surrounding counties' schools do not have any type of "shop" courses. There just isn't the money for them. Heck, some of them can't even afford to have school buses.. :(
They've certainly been drastically reduced, but there's still a handful out there providing trade school education. Between budgets and our nations obsession with university degrees, they certainly were pushed towards the edge of extinction. However there is a major national push to reinvigorate them, and bring them back.
To a great extent, I believe more people would be better off with a trade education versus a degree. Unfortunately, our society still places more emphasis on a liberal arts degree than a formal apprenticeship cumulating in journeyman level technical skill and years of experience.
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Sure they do.
They've been eliminated in all the schools around here and in Chicago.
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They've been eliminated in all the schools around here and in Chicago.
Many districts have. It's truly a shame.
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Looks like a lot of people are reading this...so I will mention it here...
The other half broker's manufacturing machinery. He has several customers who cannot find people who are qualified, willing to work 5 days out of 7, and can pass a drug test. He's placed ads in the local papers and doesn't even get a response...
One is particular, has more work lined up than he has employees to get the work done. He can't find anyone to even interview. He's paying $22.50/hr, I don't know what the benefits are. His company is northeast of Knoxville, in a small town but pretty town. Cost of living is lower than Knoxville, go outside of town, and it's even lower. (BFF's daughter & SIL just moved up there about 20 miles away, got a 2800 SF house, 1 acre, 4 br, 2.5 bath, 3 c gar, huge kit with granite counters, hardwoods throughout first flr for $200,000.)
Back to the plant owner.... he's looking for machinists in particular (press type stuff - I'm hoping a qualified person understands this description better than me. I know what they make and describe it), also tool & dye. M was up there yesterday to see him, and the owner told him he had his people working all weekend, because they can't get all the work done during the week.
This is just one customer looking, he has several others that are too. High schools don't teach this type of work down here, there aren't vocational schools except for ITT, and nobody wants to learn...
If you know anyone, who - seriously -wants to move to E TN and does this kind of work, send me a pm and I will get the information to you.
Told M there are a lot of people here, and I have no idea what most do for a living, but it was worth a try....
The inability for many, many people to pass a drug screen is very much a factor here too. My plant can't make product fast enough; OT is mandatory now; and simply getting someone to hire on and stay on (especially as a temp) is like pulling teeth.
AFAIC, these are the shitheads that expect the free lunch, Obamaphones, and skittle-shitting ponies.
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Got this email today.... :(
Foreclosures Filings Rise in July
.....RealtyTrac just reported an increase in foreclosures filed last month, and many agents are reporting that they're seeing more REO inventory coming out in their neighborhoods. Are you seeing the same in your area? If so, we'd love to hear about it. If you haven't noticed a surge yet, you will soon. And although REO activity has dropped from the peak in 2010, we are still "54 percent above the historical average prior to the housing crisis", according to RealtyTrac.
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what is "REO"?
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what is "REO"?
Technically - Real Estate Owned.
Real life term - FORECLOSURED by the bank, now owned by bank, lender, Fannie, Freddie, HUD
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what is "REO"?
The prefix to Speedwagon...
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKFtyy1FPM[/youtube]
I know that neighborhood !
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Got this email today.... :(
It's got to be regional. Over the past year I've partnered with a builder and we're buying depressed properties on the cheap here in Asheville, NC, fixing them up, and reselling them. Had realtors in this area right after we started saying they needed spec homes to show, so we've kept them in the $200K range and have had much success.
Getting ready to expand what I'm doing into Central Florida in 2014. Lots of opportunities.
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Technically - Real Estate Owned.
Real life term - FORECLOSURED by the bank, now owned by bank, lender, Fannie, Freddie, HUD
I caught an interesting blurb this morning while walking the dogs or out getting milk while listening to the local talk show. I wish I had heard the whole thing. What I did catch went something like this on housing. (semi quote from memory, a money advisor type talking) I am in the middle of the baby boom at 58 with nine years leading and trailing me. And what I am seeing in my older clients are lots of them trying to downsize but unable to get rid of their McMansion. There are not enough younger buyers behind them making enough to cover the McMansion market. It will be at least ten years before the millennials will be ready to buy these type of properties if ever. Kids today don't want to be burdened with property maintenance and prefer to rent or live in condos.
I have been looking at foreclosures in the Ft. Myers area as a possible winter retreat. I might have to give serious consideration to not doing an all cash deal at this point if anyone is foolish enough to give a low interest loan. I would look at it like renting and paying property taxes to which I would add a life insurance kicker to leave it free and clear to the heirs.
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I have been looking at foreclosures in the Ft. Myers area as a possible winter retreat. I might have to give serious consideration to not doing an all cash deal at this point if anyone is foolish enough to give a low interest loan. I would look at it like renting and paying property taxes to which I would add a life insurance kicker to leave it free and clear to the heirs.
Go live there for a couple of months. I stayed in Sarasota for 3 weeks & did not like all the inconsiderate Yankee assholes. I bought a beach condo in Perdido Key, FL (just west of Pensacola). Most of the people are from the South or Midwest. A better class of people IMO.
Property tax and insurance is high compared to where I live. Hurricane insurance is a big mess in Florida. Make sure you have it before you buy. Citizens Insurance is backed by the state of FL for hurricane damage and one of the few that sells it. I was canceled right before the season started last year because some of my rentals were less than a week . Talk about a panic mode.
You will be lucky to break even if you use the FT Meyers property in the winter time. That is when all the snowbirds come down and you make the most money because of high rental prices. Summer is considered the off season there. Just the opposite where my condo is located.
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Go live there for a couple of months. I stayed in Sarasota for 3 weeks & did not like all the inconsiderate Yankee assholes. I bought a beach condo in Perdido Key, FL (just west of Pensacola). Most of the people are from the South or Midwest. A better class of people IMO.
Property tax and insurance is high compared to where I live. Hurricane insurance is a big mess in Florida. Make sure you have it before you buy. Citizens Insurance is backed by the state of FL for hurricane damage and one of the few that sells it. I was canceled right before the season started last year because some of my rentals were less than a week . Talk about a panic mode.
You will be lucky to break even if you use the FT Meyers property in the winter time. That is when all the snowbirds come down and you make the most money because of high rental prices. Summer is considered the off season there. Just the opposite where my condo is located.
I lived in Coral Gables years ago. We have vacationed in the Captiva / Ft Myers area a few times since. I have also considered just putting the Motor Home on a winter lot. Spent a week looking at parks this spring. The jury is still out on which way to will go. But there are plenty of foreclosures to look at (with plenty of Chinese dry wall). :o
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I lived in Coral Gables years ago. We have vacationed in the Captiva / Ft Myers area a few times since. I have also considered just putting the Motor Home on a winter lot. Spent a week looking at parks this spring. The jury is still out on which way to will go. But there are plenty of foreclosures to look at (with plenty of Chinese dry wall). :o
I would not touch a Repo with Chinese dry wall with a 10' pole. Gotta watch out for the ones that have been used as Meth labs also.
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It's got to be regional. Over the past year I've partnered with a builder and we're buying depressed properties on the cheap here in Asheville, NC, fixing them up, and reselling them. Had realtors in this area right after we started saying they needed spec homes to show, so we've kept them in the $200K range and have had much success.
Getting ready to expand what I'm doing into Central Florida in 2014. Lots of opportunities.
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Congrats on doing so well!!
Stats on my local market, these are from my county and 3 of the largest populated counties that "touch" mine.
These are for single family dwellings only... no condos, PUD, multi-family(2 or more), commercial included.
Current listings: average days on market 120+
All lists - 6630 - ranging in price $5,000-$9,975,000. average price $259,639. 827 are over $400,000.
REO lists - 455 - $9,900 - $1,349,000. $125,581.
REO lists are approximately 7%
Solds since 01/01/2013: average days on market 90+
All solds - 5193 - ranging in price $305 - $3,212,500. average price $189,206.
REO solds - 929 - $1750 - $989,000. $92,073.
REO solds are approximately 17.9%
In last 30 days:
All solds - 708
REO solds - 79
REO solds are approximately 11%
Those numbers make things look pretty good.
I have done 190 reports in the last 6 months. 95% are at some point in the foreclosure process. It could be as early as 2 months behind on payment all the way to bank owned and on the market.
I'm one of many doing these reports. For one company alone, I know that I am one of 93...those are just in my area - in other words, we cover the same territory.
I have 4 due tomorrow, 2 Saturday, 1 Sunday, 3 Monday and 1 Tuesday. Of all of them, only the one on Tuesday has been foreclosed.
I'm in a market that is probably double the size of the Asheville market.
Is there a surplus or a shortage in my market? I guess it depends on who's interpreting the statistics.
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Kids today don't want to be burdened with property maintenance and prefer to rent or live in condos.
That'll likely change when they wake up and see the shit they have to put up with, or if someone sat them down and showed them how much money they're dumping down a hole either through rent, or by condos, which drop first, and recover last.
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That'll likely change when they wake up and see the shit they have to put up with, or if someone sat them down and showed them how much money they're dumping down a hole either through rent, or by condos, which drop first, and recover last.
Houses aren't particularly good investments. Some would say they're not investments at all.
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That'll likely change when they wake up and see the shit they have to put up with, or if someone sat them down and showed them how much money they're dumping down a hole either through rent, or by condos, which drop first, and recover last.
My BFF and I just had a discussion a week or so about "young people" not interested in buying houses. She's president of an organization that over a 100 county HOA's belong to, on the board of Scenic ******, and is very politically - non-party affiliated, but keeping to building codes & zoning, trying to eliminate "good ole boys" backroom dealings with new development, etc. - involved with the MetroPolitan Planning Commission, Building Codes Enforcement, County Commissioners and City Council. When she started getting involved in all this stuff about 3-4 years ago, I told her she was tilting at windmills....but I have to give her a lot of credit...they are starting to pay a lot of attention to her! I'm her "go to" resource for real estate... particularly statistical data regarding the housing market in certain areas of town, and some other stuff with real estate.
Back to discussion... she said she had heard the same thing from some members of a couple of groups...(all who live in "high end housing"...)
Here is what we determined after a lengthly discussion of whether or not "young adults" are interested in owning their own homes. ..
(If) you are in your 20-30's, you have tens of thousands of college tuition debt, you have a job making less than $35,000 a year, you have a car payment, maybe married, maybe have a kid or two, credit may or may not be stellar (which it almost has to be these days to qualify for a house)...
Someone - whether it be on the phone, internet, etc - asks you if you will be buying a house in the next 6 mos, what are you going to say?
What's you answer going to be?
A. I don't want to be tied down to a mortgage.
B. I don't want to take care of a yard.
C. I like apartment living with a pool, tennis court, people to hang with
D. All of the above.
or....
E. I don't make enough money to buy a house.
F. I don't qualify for a mortgage...because of debt to income ratio, or credit score.
G. I won't live in the area I can afford because of gangs, murders, drugs. etc.
H. E-G all apply.
BFF and I each have 2 kids. Our daughters have mortgages because they are married and dual incomes were considered, and all 4 are making in excess of $50K/year. Our sons aren't married, neither can afford a house on their sole incomes - where either one would be willing to live. Both of our sons would admit to not being able to afford one to their friends because many of their friends are in the same boat, but I seriously doubt they would tell a stranger they couldn't.
Just like everything else to do with the housing industry, the data is skewed to fit whatever the desired result. :rant:
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In today's email....
It sounds crazy, but it makes perfect sense
Five Star Economist Mark Lieberman sees a troubling "deja vu" in the housing market. Quickly built up demand for housing, fast rising home values, overbidding, relaxed lending standards, and something else... something we don't usually look at. Furniture and appliance stores are seeing a dramatic slowdown. Why does this matter? Mark explains "The falloff at furniture and appliance stores suggests homeowners may be stretched to make monthly mortgage payments". Many economists fear these signs. If people are stretched for basic housing needs, and their jobs don't start paying them more soon, they might need to start giving up other payments altogether, and that's what we saw in 2005, just over 8 years ago now. Some agents are surprised to hear that many states are still seeing increases in foreclosure filings, as we reported on last week. And with job creation far under what it was 10 years ago, the signs are troubling. Banks are now looking to release more REOs before a potential double dip, while they can still get a higher dollar amount for their REO assets.
I knew appliance purchases were an indicator of new housing, but never thought about it as an existing homeowner. Outside of "garage" refrigerators, I have only purchased appliances if one breaks and it's cheaper for new than to fix.
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deb, I fear we're moving back to the lending practices that caused all this problem. Where I sell I'm seeing a LOT of buyers using USDA loans and FHA loans that will allow not only 100% financing BUT they'll allow the seller to pay ALL of the buyer's closing costs. Seriously. Before those seller contributions were capped at 3% and sometimes, in the subprime market, up to 6%. These USDA loans will allow the seller to pay "whatever is needed" for the market.
Right now I have a deal working that is right at $80k and the seller is contributing $5,000 to the buyer's closing costs! On top of that the buyer is asking for an allowance to have the repairs they want made. Usually no big deal but in this case they're asking for very minor things and they want $2,000 grand. I'm talking about things most people would overlook but the problem is the buyer has NO money so they want everything pristine when they move in.
I'll lay dollars to donuts this home is in foreclosure in less than 2 years.
KC
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deb, I fear we're moving back to the lending practices that caused all this problem. Where I sell I'm seeing a LOT of buyers using USDA loans and FHA loans that will allow not only 100% financing BUT they'll allow the seller to pay ALL of the buyer's closing costs. Seriously. Before those seller contributions were capped at 3% and sometimes, in the subprime market, up to 6%. These USDA loans will allow the seller to pay "whatever is needed" for the market.
Right now I have a deal working that is right at $80k and the seller is contributing $5,000 to the buyer's closing costs! On top of that the buyer is asking for an allowance to have the repairs they want made. Usually no big deal but in this case they're asking for very minor things and they want $2,000 grand. I'm talking about things most people would overlook but the problem is the buyer has NO money so they want everything pristine when they move in.
I'll lay dollars to donuts this home is in foreclosure in less than 2 years.
KC
I gotta tell you, KC and deb, the more of these horror stories I hear, the more I'm convinced that selling my house is a veritable impossibility.
The housing market's been shit, even since '04 when Mrs. E and I moved to Ohio; and again (worse) in '07 when we moved to Missouri.
No way in hell, for example, would I pay the buyer's closing costs -- not unless the price of my house was jacked up enough not only to cover the note and a puny amount of equity, but also to cover those closing costs plus 10% for the hassle factor.
Maybe I ought to go ahead and drop $8K for a heat pump since it looks like I'll wind up croaking in my current house. Want to go south for retirement. Am sick and tired of shoveling snow.
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Back to discussion... she said she had heard the same thing from some members of a couple of groups...(all who live in "high end housing"...)
Here is what we determined after a lengthly discussion of whether or not "young adults" are interested in owning their own homes. ..
(If) you are in your 20-30's, you have tens of thousands of college tuition debt, you have a job making less than $35,000 a year, you have a car payment, maybe married, maybe have a kid or two, credit may or may not be stellar (which it almost has to be these days to qualify for a house)...
Someone - whether it be on the phone, internet, etc - asks you if you will be buying a house in the next 6 mos, what are you going to say?
What's you answer going to be?
A. I don't want to be tied down to a mortgage.
B. I don't want to take care of a yard.
C. I like apartment living with a pool, tennis court, people to hang with
D. All of the above.
or....
E. I don't make enough money to buy a house.
F. I don't qualify for a mortgage...because of debt to income ratio, or credit score.
G. I won't live in the area I can afford because of gangs, murders, drugs. etc.
H. E-G all apply.
BFF and I each have 2 kids. Our daughters have mortgages because they are married and dual incomes were considered, and all 4 are making in excess of $50K/year. Our sons aren't married, neither can afford a house on their sole incomes - where either one would be willing to live. Both of our sons would admit to not being able to afford one to their friends because many of their friends are in the same boat, but I seriously doubt they would tell a stranger they couldn't.
Just like everything else to do with the housing industry, the data is skewed to fit whatever the desired result. :rant:
Yeah, I admit the Asheville market tends to lend itself to more retirees, but the area has been attracting some factory work fleeing from the Northeast and California which has brought in some young professionals. I would think in K-ville you'd get some companies wanting to be close to the resources at UT, but I've never done anything in the K-ville market to know about the area. Did some deals in Kingsport and Johnson City, but that's been 15+ years ago.
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I gotta tell you, KC and deb, the more of these horror stories I hear, the more I'm convinced that selling my house is a veritable impossibility.
The housing market's been shit, even since '04 when Mrs. E and I moved to Ohio; and again (worse) in '07 when we moved to Missouri.
No way in hell, for example, would I pay the buyer's closing costs -- not unless the price of my house was jacked up enough not only to cover the note and a puny amount of equity, but also to cover those closing costs plus 10% for the hassle factor.
Maybe I ought to go ahead and drop $8K for a heat pump since it looks like I'll wind up croaking in my current house. Want to go south for retirement. Am sick and tired of shoveling snow.
In most cases that is what's happening. Make a deal at $80k and want $5k back in closing cost assistance? No problem, we'll write the contract at $85k and give you the $5k at closing. They are financing 100% of it then asking for other costs to be paid. It's pissing me off.
The buyers I'm working with now, through another agent, don't really want the repairs done ... they want the CASH! They will probably end up getting a check at closing. I'm telling you, 2 years and this home hits the foreclosure market. I've seen this happen before and it's ugly.
KC
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Maybe I ought to go ahead and drop $8K for a heat pump since it looks like I'll wind up croaking in my current house. Want to go south for retirement. Am sick and tired of shoveling snow.
Why don't you become a snowbird?
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deb, I fear we're moving back to the lending practices that caused all this problem. Where I sell I'm seeing a LOT of buyers using USDA loans and FHA loans that will allow not only 100% financing BUT they'll allow the seller to pay ALL of the buyer's closing costs. Seriously. Before those seller contributions were capped at 3% and sometimes, in the subprime market, up to 6%. These USDA loans will allow the seller to pay "whatever is needed" for the market.
Right now I have a deal working that is right at $80k and the seller is contributing $5,000 to the buyer's closing costs! On top of that the buyer is asking for an allowance to have the repairs they want made. Usually no big deal but in this case they're asking for very minor things and they want $2,000 grand. I'm talking about things most people would overlook but the problem is the buyer has NO money so they want everything pristine when they move in.
I'll lay dollars to donuts this home is in foreclosure in less than 2 years.
KC
K.... USDA are the rural development ones right? If so, we have them here too, and they are 100% loans. What's really weird, is the location of these RD loans...some are inside the city limits, in 50+yr old neighborhoods.
I had a couple houses that were flips get RD loans (I was seller's agent for one of my investors). They wanted every damn thing too. It came down to something really stupid.... it was an "as is" listing, and the buyer's agent wanted a vent cover. Told him it wasn't there to begin with, it wasn't asked for in the home inspection(seller's did agree to do a couple of the home inspection items) and if he thought I was going out and buy one the day before closing, he could think again! He said I was hateful and wouldn't even come into the closing room. :gay: His buyer's were really nice... he on the other hand was a little shit.
He lied through his pearly whites about the loan, closing time, etc. I flew into the lender when the lender got mad at me for "scheduling" the closing and wanting to know when the title company would be getting the loan information. I told her to look at the contract! She didn't even have it yet!!! This was less than a week prior to closing. We ended up closing only 2 or 3 days late, but from then on, I had to put on showing instructions for that seller, that the little twit was NOT allowed to show any of their listings. My seller was adamant about him not being allowed on her properties.
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Yeah, I admit the Asheville market tends to lend itself to more retirees, but the area has been attracting some factory work fleeing from the Northeast and California which has brought in some young professionals. I would think in K-ville you'd get some companies wanting to be close to the resources at UT, but I've never done anything in the K-ville market to know about the area. Did some deals in Kingsport and Johnson City, but that's been 15+ years ago.
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Loudon County, has lost Yale Lock - 200 some employees. And they lost another company that had about 150.
Over the last couple of years, Knoxville lost Goody's executives offices, UT has had repeated layoffs over the last couple of years (BFF was losing her job the end of Sept, but has found a different job at UT. Her entire dept(her group supported one of the Colleges for all media) has been let go over the last year, only the main person will still have a job after Oct 1. There were about 15 in the group over a year ago. Plasti-line is gone(it was called something else when they closed - they make huge signs, like Mickey D's arches,etc). Levi's is gone. There was another big one, but I can't remember, what it was. Most of these were executive jobs. A lot of new jobs have come in, but most have been retail, customer service in the minimum to $12-15 max per hour. It was either January of 2010 or 2011, 1400 jobs were lost in Knox and Blount County in less than 6 weeks, predominately white collar. :(
Anderson County, has improved in manufacturing. But Oak Ridge's housing is the worst it has been in forever. Last yr, home values dropped 30%.
Roane County... HT Hackney moved out of Knox County and moved into Roane. Good for Roane, bad for Knoxville.
Sevier County is thriving on tourism. Bless them.. Knox County is hoping to pick up on the overflow.
Campbell County.. basically has lost 75% or more of manufacturing type jobs with nothing to replace them.
Back after a couple of really bad hurricane years, when people were leaving Florida and moving to TN, NC, SC... Knox County went crazy building houses in the $150-400 range. Buyers came, but not to the extent the developers were hoping. And the wonderful people in charge of Knox County new business opportunities are not exerting themselves to bring in new businesses. Dumb asses...
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Yeah, I admit the Asheville market tends to lend itself to more retirees, but the area has been attracting some factory work fleeing from the Northeast and California which has brought in some young professionals. I would think in K-ville you'd get some companies wanting to be close to the resources at UT, but I've never done anything in the K-ville market to know about the area. Did some deals in Kingsport and Johnson City, but that's been 15+ years ago.
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And here is an article on one such company fleeing BlueHampshire. Take your guns an nasty jobs the heck outa here. :rotf:
http://bluehampshire.com/2013/07/22/nh-afl-cio-and-nc-afl-cio-presidents-agree-sturm-ruger-chose-n-c-to-maximize-profits-at-workers-expense/
Congratulations to NC, our loss is your gain. Lynch, our last Governor, vetoed RTW.
I have also thought about NC as a winter motor home location (over near Pinehurst).
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Are you seeing this where you are ?
Aug. 29, 2013, 8:54 a.m. EDT
Nearly half of homes are purchased in cash
The real-estate recovery is being driven by all-cash buyersLink:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-all-homes-are-purchased-in-cash-2013-08-29?dist=beforebell
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Are you seeing this where you are ?
I don't know about deb but I've seen more cash buyers this year than in the past. Even with interest rates as low as they are.
KC
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Funny you guys should mention this...
Remember the other day, when I mentioned this group coming in and buying up houses? BFF and I were talking about it again in the last day or so.
This morning I looked in the tax records to see if I could find them.
I did....just in Knox County...they have bought 121 houses!!!! And we aren't talking cheap ass rundown houses. Some are up in the low 300's. All cash paper money.
American Homes 4 Rent Properties [One, Three, Four or Six] LLC. They are out of Malibu CA.
Just checked adjacent counties.
30 in Blount County
3 in Anderson (OakRidge)
1 Sevier ( Dollywood area)
6 in Loudon
73 in Davidson (Nashville)
83 in Rutherford (Murfreesboro-outside Nashville)
40 in Shelby (Memphis)
99 in Montgomery (Ft Campbell)
I find it extremely weird there is nothing around Chattanooga.
KC... wonder if they are buying in your area?
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American Homes 4 Rent Properties [One, Three, Four or Six] LLC. They are out of Malibu CA.
Looks like you'll have some................undocumented persons shortly. We have a glut.
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KC... wonder if they are buying in your area?
No ma'am, I don't see anything in our county.
KC
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No ma'am, I don't see anything in our county.
KC
BFF found this article.
They are in Texas, but no mention of being here in TN.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/23/2702528/california-billionaire-bets-on.html
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Venture Capitalist?
David Singelyn
Chief Executive Officer - American Homes 4 Rent
In the Real Estate industry, David Singelyn has 16,348 colleagues in 1,383 companies located in 82 countries. 8,166 executive movements have been recorded in the last 12 months.
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Locally some of the people I know are moving money from some funds and buying properties to become rentals for cash. They have told me they are doing this for two reasons. First, they think business regulations are going to get much worse, adversely influencing businesses. Second, they think the number of people able to buy a house is going to decrease, increasing the need for rentals.
Personally, I was going to buy something closer to where I'm working this summer/fall. Now I am content to wait a year or even two. My area has not yet seen the market decline that other areas have, but I think it will come. I can wait to see how things go. Or, I can wait until I'm even closer to retirement and buy a whole lot more property for my money 70 miles away!
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If I had the money, I would be buying rentals - affordable for me but also affordable for renter. Around here, a 3 br apartment in a nice area is going to be within a hundred or two of $1000, depending on amenities. I think if you can buy houses that are competitive to a nice apartment, renters with kids would prefer a house. ,
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An old neighbor of mine took an early retirement and moved to Oregon. He would buy up neglected homes with good bones, at a good price. and paid cash. He would clean up the property, replace windows, paint and maybe put in new flooring. Then he would rent them out. At one time he had a dozen or more rentals.
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Market decline? What market? What decline? The market hereabouts crashed a few years ago and has not recovered one bit.
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If I had the money, I would be buying rentals - affordable for me but also affordable for renter. Around here, a 3 br apartment in a nice area is going to be within a hundred or two of $1000, depending on amenities. I think if you can buy houses that are competitive to a nice apartment, renters with kids would prefer a house. ,
Several years ago I ran across an older guy who owned a couple houses in the neighborhood as rentals which he said were his retirement income. I would guess he has been doing this for at least twenty plus years. His tenants usually only stay a couple years sometimes they have kids other times he has rented to groups of singles. In any event last I knew he was getting around $14-1600 for a three bedroom on 1/8 acre lot and I suspect that is without utilities (I know one place is propane the other may be oil). These properties would probably currently be valued in the 190-230k range but had an initial purchase cost between 20-60k (25+ years ago). They have had normal maintenance, maybe a furnace or roof, that type stuff but certainly no fancy designer kitchens or spa tub stuff.
I had a rental close to ten years with the same tenant. Before I sold the house I made the tenant a good offer to purchase it. They didn't want the maintenance or ownership hassle. It was a four bedroom in fine shape with a landscaped acre lot and went for around 130K around 2000. My accountant was marvelous at taking care of the financial end as I had made improvements, taken depreciation, and bought the house as part of my divorce settlement (which obviously changed the cost basis). There are a lot of things to consider in the rental / ownership business which I suspect a lot of people may be unaware. I finally got sick of having the headache of maintaining two places, one of which was a forty five minute drive away.
You can only defer income for so long on rental property if I remember correctly. Perhaps someone more familiar can speak to that aspect. I do know that I rented the property at about break even and was able to make profit on the increase in value over time after all tax considerations. I have never really done an analysis to see if I could have beaten the rate of return in the market. Even the best tenants can get to be a drag after a while and never, ever, ever rent to friends or relatives. It is a sure fire recipe for problems.
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The best way to rent a house is to live in it first for 5 years the way I understand it.
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This came in an industry email today...
RealtyTrac reported an increase in foreclosures filed in recent months, and many agents are reporting that they're seeing more REO inventory coming out in their neighborhoods. Although REO activity has dropped from the peak in 2010, we are still "54 percent above the historical average prior to the housing crisis", according to RealtyTrac. Ever since home values began to stabilize, banks have been repositioning and starting to dump their shadow inventory
I know I have been busier this last quarter.
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Several years ago I ran across an older guy who owned a couple houses in the neighborhood as rentals which he said were his retirement income. I would guess he has been doing this for at least twenty plus years. His tenants usually only stay a couple years sometimes they have kids other times he has rented to groups of singles. In any event last I knew he was getting around $14-1600 for a three bedroom on 1/8 acre lot and I suspect that is without utilities (I know one place is propane the other may be oil). These properties would probably currently be valued in the 190-230k range but had an initial purchase cost between 20-60k (25+ years ago). They have had normal maintenance, maybe a furnace or roof, that type stuff but certainly no fancy designer kitchens or spa tub stuff.
I had a rental close to ten years with the same tenant. Before I sold the house I made the tenant a good offer to purchase it. They didn't want the maintenance or ownership hassle. It was a four bedroom in fine shape with a landscaped acre lot and went for around 130K around 2000. My accountant was marvelous at taking care of the financial end as I had made improvements, taken depreciation, and bought the house as part of my divorce settlement (which obviously changed the cost basis). There are a lot of things to consider in the rental / ownership business which I suspect a lot of people may be unaware. I finally got sick of having the headache of maintaining two places, one of which was a forty five minute drive away.
You can only defer income for so long on rental property if I remember correctly. Perhaps someone more familiar can speak to that aspect. I do know that I rented the property at about break even and was able to make profit on the increase in value over time after all tax considerations. I have never really done an analysis to see if I could have beaten the rate of return in the market. Even the best tenants can get to be a drag after a while and never, ever, ever rent to friends or relatives. It is a sure fire recipe for problems.
My parents had 3 rental houses at one time. I had to paint, fix them up and collect the rent. I was a happy camper when they sold the last one. Their capital gain taxes were lowered by selling the house in installment payments over a 5 year period. In LA taxes are low even without the homestead exemption. That is something to consider along with insurance costs on rental property.
Last year my net cash flow on my beach condo was 5% after all expenses, insurance and taxes were taken out. It rented approximately 85% of the time on a weekly basis. I combined business with pleasure with 5 trips last year. Made sure the business portion doing repairs and maint. was greater than the pleasure part so that I could take mileage and meals on my 500+ mile round trips. Taxes and insurance is much higher in Florida than where I live. Purchased a new car this year so I can take an extra $10k bonus depreciation plus mileage at .55 per mile for vehicles where the usage is for business. Another benefit of rental property is a 1031 IRS exemption transfer that allows you to sell a rental property and buy another of equal value or high value. You must have a lawyer or financial agent to do the transfer in order to be valid.
I have a great manager who lives close to my condo and oversees it when renters leave. I lucked up in that regard cause she has been renting mine and one of hers for many years. However, renting is not all gravy if you do not get your ducks in a row.
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Just got this in an email from a lender friend. She does Wells Fargo mortgages.
There are a few areas of concern that will have an immediate impact on our daily business.
The IRS has suspended all 4506T processing. With no guidance from investors or the agencies on this topic we are basically in a holding pattern and following current procedures that state we cannot close a loan with verification of the W2 or tax returns used in the file.
USDA commitments will cease this morning and any USDA loan in the system without a commitment issued will not be able to close.
FHA/VA will continue to insure and guarantee loan files, however any manual request (example: requesting a case number be cancelled to allow a new case to be processed) will not be processed. Currently both the VA Portal and FHA Connection are up and running so we can order case numbers, however if either system goes down it may take an extended period to get back on line.
For existing and new customers who are government employees, verifications of employment may be delayed or impossible to obtain during the shutdown. Those government employees who are furloughed will not be able to close on a mortgage until the government is up and running again.
As additional issues arise over the next few hours and days, we will be sure to keep you up to date.