The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: txradioguy on June 23, 2013, 02:22:46 PM
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(Reuters) - Fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden is seeking asylum in Ecuador, the Quito government said on Sunday, after Hong Kong let him leave its territory despite Washington's efforts to extradite him on espionage charges.
An aircraft believed to be carrying Snowden landed in Moscow, and the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said in a statement he was "bound for the Republic of Ecuador via a safe route for the purposes of asylum".
Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino, visiting Vietnam, tweeted: "The Government of Ecuador has received an asylum request from Edward J. #Snowden."
Ecuador is sheltering WikiLeaks' founder Julian Assange at its London embassy, and Ecuador's ambassador to Russia said he expected to meet Snowden in Moscow on Sunday.
Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa has good ties with WikiLeaks and is in a politically confident mood after his recent landslide re-election.
Snowden's departure from Hong Kong, a former British colony that returned to China in 1997, is likely to be highly embarrassing for the administration of President Barack Obama. U.S. authorities had said only on Saturday they were optimistic Hong Kong would cooperate over Snowden, who revealed extensive U.S. government surveillance in the United States and abroad.
Earlier, a source at the Russian airline Aeroflot had said Snowden would fly on from Moscow within 24 hours to Cuba, although the source said he planned to go on to Venezuela.
Venezuela, Cuba and Ecuador are all members of the ALBA bloc, an alliance of leftist governments in Latin America that pride themselves on their "anti-imperialist" credentials.
Ecuadorean Ambassador Patricio Alberto Chavez Zavala told reporters at a Moscow airport hotel that he would hold talks with Snowden and Sarah Harrison, a WikiLeaks representative. "We're waiting for Sarah. We're going to talk to them," he said, without revealing what the discussion would cover.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623
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We're supposed to believe that a stop in MOSCOW is supposed to be, oh hell, just sorta "on the way?"
:whatever:
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Obumbles is concerned and disappointed.
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I guess this is just another sign of how much more the world respects us since 2009 right?
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We're supposed to believe that a stop in MOSCOW is supposed to be, oh hell, just sorta "on the way?"
:whatever:
The Moscow route is because Aeroflot is a state owned, whereas, other airlines could bow to political pressure and land in a deportation friendly country
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The Moscow route is because Aeroflot is a state owned, whereas, other airlines could bow to political pressure and land in a deportation friendly country
all the more reason why a flight on Aeroflot doesn't just "bow" to political pressure, but supplicates itself to it. Your point doesn't make sense in that light.
Now, if you'd like to tell me that Putin and his cronies just might sweeten Snowden's pot by a couple of stolen million dollars or rubles or dinars or Hong Kong dollars, in exchange for a brief stopover and just a little chat with Vlad and the boys, then I'd say you're on to something.
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all the more reason why a flight on Aeroflot doesn't just "bow" to political pressure, but supplicates itself to it. Your point doesn't make sense in that light.
Now, if you'd like to tell me that Putin and his cronies just might sweeten Snowden's pot by a couple of stolen million dollars or rubles or dinars or Hong Kong dollars, in exchange for a brief stopover and just a little chat with Vlad and the boys, then I'd say you're on to something.
Then I should clarify that Aeroflot answers only to the current government, whereas other airlines belong to a body that are subject to international agreements.
It is obvious that a deal was made between the Chinese and Putin, and to a lesser extent Ecuador
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Then I should clarify that Aeroflot answers only to the current government, whereas other airlines belong to a body that are subject to international agreements.
It is obvious that a deal was made between the Chinese and Putin, and to a lesser extent Ecuador
What kind of "international agreements" are you talking about? And which airlines?
Specifics, please.
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What kind of "international agreements" are you talking about? And which airlines?
Specifics, please.
I don't have time to detail but IIRC, it is called a Red Corner Notice
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I don't have time to detail but IIRC, it is called a Red Corner Notice
Okay, after several Googles, I'm seeing that Interpol's involved and it's essentially an international arrest warrant by Interpol to arrest and extradite an individual from one country to another.
I'm not seeing anything in there about airlines. And their policies. And how government controls or does not control airlines.
When you've got some time, please enlighten me.
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What kind of "international agreements" are you talking about? And which airlines?
Specifics, please.
Ding, ding, back of brain is jumping about because something just ain't right here.
What are we dealing with here, we got a weird one with Snowden, everything seems out of kilter.
Like a bad B movie script this male without a High School Diploma, a GED he most likely received in the military, goes in 8-9 years to a job where he has access to top secret information ???? How on earth did he go from being a security guard to this big high technological expert ????
So far he has to our knowledge never married or has children. We know nothing about his parents, dead or alive. We do not know if Snowden is even his real name.
What possessed him to blow the whistle, can't be love of country as he knew he would never be a free man in the USA after he `put out the yell to the press.
WHO ARE YOU, WHERE DID YOU COME FROM AND WHAT KIND OF FUTURE DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE ?
Why is China and Russia all so ready to help him?
Put him in the dead pool for sometime this year.
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Okay, after several Googles, I'm seeing that Interpol's involved and it's essentially an international arrest warrant by Interpol to arrest and extradite an individual from one country to another.
I'm not seeing anything in there about airlines. And their policies. And how government controls or does not control airlines.
When you've got some time, please enlighten me.
http://www.rednoticelawjournal.com/interpols-tools-and-practices/ -If you would like something to read
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http://www.rednoticelawjournal.com/interpols-tools-and-practices/ -If you would like something to read
I waded through that site & saw nothing about airlines either Eupher.
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Bottom line--he's screwed. In a manner of his own making.
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Bottom line--he's screwed. In a manner of his own making.
Well, Ecuador is a socialist paradise so, he's got that going for him.
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Well, Ecuador is a socialist paradise so, he's got that going for him.
Ecuador also granted Julian Assange asylum. No surprise they're gonna let Snowden do the same thing.
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What kind of "international agreements" are you talking about? And which airlines?
Specifics, please.
"The United States continued efforts to prevent Snowden from gaining asylum. It warned Western Hemisphere nations that Snowden "should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel, other than is necessary to return him to the United States," a State Department official said...U.S. sources familiar with the issue said Washington had revoked Snowden's U.S. passport. State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said revoking the passport of someone under a felony arrest warrant was routine and does not affect citizenship status." http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/23/us-usa-security-flight-idUSBRE95M02H20130623
But at least as a transit point, Russia was likely a reliable bet. It has no extradition treaty with Washington" http://world.time.com/2013/06/23/russian-hospitality-why-snowden-picked-moscow-as-his-transit-point/
The international warrant is executed by Interpol; the site I linked to gave a case example of travel issues. Julian Assange is the subject of a red warrant and the member counties are listed here (http://www.interpol.int/News-and-media/News-media-releases/2012/PR065)
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I think I am confused. The State Department has revoked Snowden's passport while he is in a country that has no extradition with the United States? Washington WANTS him to stay in Moscow? :confused:
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here, please use the quote feature.
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http://www.rednoticelawjournal.com/interpols-tools-and-practices/ -If you would like something to read
So what's your deal, here?
Why would you make some weird assertion about governments and airlines and red notice and interpol and then utterly fail to prove your point?
Do you normally make a practice out of talking out of your ass?
Believe me, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I do it sometimes too. But at least you know when I'm talking out of my ass. You, on the other hand, cloak your bullshit with half-truths and obfuscation.
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I think I am confused. The State Department has revoked Snowden's passport while he is in a country that has no extradition with the United States? Washington WANTS him to stay in Moscow? :confused:
The State Department revoked his passport because in theory, no one can travel without; ergo, the government was preventing Snowden from exiting Hong Kong. Diplomatically, the US informed Hong Kong about Snowden's
wanted status and they slow-played the request by stating the paperwork was not in order.
Snowden must either have left the country with his 'invalid' passport or possibly the Ecuadorians issued a new passport. -an assumption
Airlines are not independent governing bodies and are subject to their country's rules. I don't understand why this is confusing as we have had many examples of this authority since 9-11. There is not an 'international waters' type of understanding with respect to their licensing.
Sorry, CG6468, my quote feature was not working; I think a Tor browser issue.
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Sorry, CG6468, my quote feature was not working; I think a Tor browser issue.
Ok, it just makes things simpler to decipher. TOR browser? What's that?
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Ok, it just makes things simpler to decipher. TOR browser? What's that?
It's software for enabling online anonymity and It interferes when I dual
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The Moscow route is because Aeroflot is a state owned, whereas, other airlines could bow to political pressure and land in a deportation friendly country
This is what you said. When pressed for examples you spouted some kind of "Red Dawn" code and sent us to links that had nothing to do with airlines. Unless there is a flight safety issue, airlines will land at the airport they filed to. INTERPOL has no authority to interfere with any commercial flight.
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Interesting that we do have a Ecuador/US extradition treaty (http://www.scribd.com/doc/149517429/US-Ecuador-Extradition-Treaty).
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Interesting that we do have a Ecuador/US extradition treaty (http://www.scribd.com/doc/149517429/US-Ecuador-Extradition-Treaty).
We also have one with Hong Kong. Your point?
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Interesting that we do have a Ecuador/US extradition treaty (http://www.scribd.com/doc/149517429/US-Ecuador-Extradition-Treaty).
Nice try, but if you'd read the document, you'd note that the crimes indicated therein do not specify "espionage" or "treason" or anything remotely along those lines. Embezzlement? Check. Abortion? Check. But espionage and treason? Ain't in the document, hon.
Go to the back of the line and try again.
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Nice try, but if you'd read the document, you'd note that the crimes indicated therein do not specify "espionage" or "treason" or anything remotely along those lines. Embezzlement? Check. Abortion? Check. But espionage and treason? Ain't in the document, hon.
Go to the back of the line and try again.
What do you think embezzlement of public property defines?
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Bottom line--he's screwed. In a manner of his own making.
True, but at this point he's an idiot if he actually ever does decide to come back here and face trial. As far as Kerry and all the Seniletors and Congresscritters (On both sides) weeping huge hypocritical crocodile tears about other countries ignoring the 'Rule of law' for not turning him over, it's pretty obvious our hands aren't remarkably cleaner and they're tired of putting up with out bullshit about it.
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What do you think embezzlement of public property defines?
Like I said, keep trying. But go back to the end of the line first and wait your turn.
Again. :-)
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What do you think embezzlement of public property defines?
It means he took a stapler with him...and possibly some other stuff, which the Government can neither confirm nor deny, at this point in time. Doesn't have anything to do with espionage, treason, or classified material by nature of the charge, though.
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It means he took a stapler with him...and possibly some other stuff, which the Government can neither confirm nor deny, at this point in time. Doesn't have anything to do with espionage, treason, or classified material by nature of the charge, though.
Theft of government property is in the arrest warrant
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Theft of government property is in the arrest warrant
So? Probably refers to a laptop and the hard drives, but the same charge covers anything all the way down to a stapler (Though to be a felony, it does have to add up to over $100 in value). The charge still has Jack to do with treason or espionage, as you seem to think.
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So? Probably refers to a laptop and the hard drives, but the same charge covers anything all the way down to a stapler (Though to be a felony, it does have to add up to over $100 in value). The charge still has Jack to do with treason or espionage, as you seem to think.
The theft/embezzlement comment is under the context of enforcing a Ecuadorian extradiction warrant but interestingly political persecution is an out. Though, the data theft falls under treason/espionage
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Theft of government property is in the arrest warrant
Ecuador has no intention of complying with the treaty bonehead. They have refused to turn over Jullian Asswipe for rape so I don't think stapler theft is going to impress them. You can dice mouse turds till the cows come home but, if they chose not to comply (like China) Kerry & Obummer are simply screwed.
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Sorry, CG6468, my quote feature was not working; I think a Tor browser issue.
just type the code "quote" what your quoting "/quote". But in place of the " put the quote signs [ and ] around them.
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just type the code "quote" what your quoting "/quote". But in place of the " put the quote signs [ and ] around them.
just type the code "quote" what your quoting "/quote". But in place of the " put the quote signs [ and ] around them
test
Thanks
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The theft/embezzlement comment is under the context of enforcing a Ecuadorian extradiction warrant but interestingly political persecution is an out. Though, the data theft falls under treason/espionage
Asylum determinations (Which trump extraditions), here or anywhere else in the world, are not bound by what the country that wants a guy extradited claims he did. There wouldn't be any point in them otherwise.
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Asylum determinations (Which trump extraditions), here or anywhere else in the world, are not bound by what the country that wants a guy extradited claims he did. There wouldn't be any point in them otherwise.
I agree but politics trumps both. Ecuador may not want to get into an extradition battle with the U.S. that could effect their trade.
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I agree but politics trumps both. Ecuador may not want to get into an extradition battle with the U.S. that could effect their trade.
Ah, speculation is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
:-)
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I agree but politics trumps both. Ecuador may not want to get into an extradition battle with the U.S. that could effect their trade.
Now there's a great argument to prove what legally-principled, high-minded sonsabitches we are when our sovereign authority wants something changed that another sovereign authority did within its international legal rights. I'm sure it'll be played back to us the next time we're over a barrel and try to make a humanitarian appeal to get our way on something, or grant asylum to a Russian or Chinese activist.
Seriously, getting him back is just an issue of retribution, whatever cats he had are completely out of the bag and have been for awhile. There's nothing that's going to actually be improved by getting him back. The only remaining purposes to putting the habeus grabbus on him now are to stop the PR bleeding for Obama and the NSA, and beat the crap out of him (In a legal sense). Fox and the rest of the MSM are focused on how shameful it is that he doesn't turn himself in, which frankly he'd have to be a total moron to do, since the DOJ will devote literally-limitless resources to imprisoning him for the rest of his life, with the press baying for his blood (On the right, for the national security issue, and on the left more for embarassing Obama) rather than even pretending to show a whole picture, and no resources to defend himself.
'Way too much is being made of this guy, he isn't actually important anymore, just another fugitive that better never set foot in the US again if he knows what's good for him.
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Now there's a great argument to prove what legally-principled, high-minded sonsabitches we are when our sovereign authority wants something changed that another sovereign authority did within its international legal rights. I'm sure it'll be played back to us the next time we're over a barrel and try to make a humanitarian appeal to get our way on something, or grant asylum to a Russian or Chinese activist.
Seriously, getting him back is just an issue of retribution, whatever cats he had are completely out of the bag and have been for awhile. There's nothing that's going to actually be improved by getting him back. The only remaining purposes to putting the habeus grabbus on him now are to stop the PR bleeding for Obama and the NSA, and beat the crap out of him (In a legal sense). Fox and the rest of the MSM are focused on how shameful it is that he doesn't turn himself in, which frankly he'd have to be a total moron to do, since the DOJ will devote literally-limitless resources to imprisoning him for the rest of his life, with the press baying for his blood (On the right, for the national security issue, and on the left more for embarassing Obama) rather than even pretending to show a whole picture, and no resources to defend himself.
'Way too much is being made of this guy, he isn't actually important anymore, just another fugitive that better never set foot in the US again if he knows what's good for him.
I agree with your political assessment and I doubt there is the political will to do a snatch mission. Though, I do think if he accidental dies from lead poisoning, this cat will have more than nine lives
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Ecuador has no intention of complying with the treaty bonehead. They have refused to turn over Jullian Asswipe for rape so I don't think stapler theft is going to impress them. You can dice mouse turds till the cows come home but, if they chose not to comply (like China) Kerry & Obummer are simply screwed.
I prefer tripping over my mouseturds.
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I agree with your political assessment and I doubt there is the political will to do a snatch mission. Though, I do think if he accidental dies from lead poisoning, this cat will have more than nine lives
He's not worth anything that justifies any covert efforts, dude. The beans have all been spilled and his access is over. He's a zero-value target, only an idiot like a journalist or Obama would see any point in throwing away black resources on him now.
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Here's a development:
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-edward-snowden-asylum-15-countries-20130701,0,1183893.story?track=rss
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Kinda looks like Snowden didn't think through this carefully enough.
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Kinda looks like Snowden didn't think through this carefully enough.
I think Snowden is a tool, but whose?
Has anyone besides me considered that maybe this was planned by someone inside our government and Russia?
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I think Snowden is a tool, but whose?
Has anyone besides me considered that maybe this was planned by someone inside our government and Russia?
:tinfoil:
No. The idea of a 29-year-old kid who happens to be a computer whiz kid but who has access to all manner of top secret information is too stupid for even the federal government to contemplate and shove down our throats.
No. Snowden is up to his neck in his own excrement.
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The most modern day definition of a useful idiot.
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Iceland proposal would grant NSA leaker Snowden citizenship
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/05/iceland-proposal-would-grant-nsa-leaker-snowden-citizenship/
Icelandic lawmakers have introduced a proposal in Parliament that would grant immediate citizenship to National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.
Ogmundur Jonasson, whose liberal Left-Green Party is backing the proposal along with the Pirate Party and Brighter Future Party, put the issue before the Judicial Affairs Committee Thursday, but the idea received minimal support.
Snowden is believed to be stuck in a Moscow airport transit area, seeking asylum from more than a dozen countries. At one point, he told the Guardian newspaper that he was inclined to seek asylum in a country that shared his values — and that "the nation that most encompasses this is Iceland."
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Snowden granted 1-year asylum in Russia, leaves airport
http://rt.com/news/snowden-entry-papers-russia-902/
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From the Wall Street Journal:
"We are extremely disappointed that the Russian government would take this step despite our very clear and lawful request" to have him expelled, said Mr. Obama's chief spokesman, Jay Carney. "Mr. Snowden is not a whistleblower—he is accused of leaking classified information."
Awwww, isn't that sweet?
Barry says that he's "extremely disappointed." :rotf: :lmao:
What about that, Vlad? Aren't you quaking in your boots now? Shouldn't you pick up the WH hotline and have a heart-to-heart with Barry? No? Not worth your time?
Kinda thought he'd say that....
Jay, your boss is a dipshit of the first order and you're his orifice. :whatever:
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Now Obama might cancel the one on one meeting with Putin at the G8 summit this year.
Neal Boortz â€@Talkmaster 2h
0bama is Putin's boy-toy, his ball of yarn, his own personal little punching bag.
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thundley4 â€@thundley4 2h
@Talkmaster I think the word you want is synonymous with female dog.
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Neal Boortz â€@Talkmaster 1h
@thundley4 Yup! Absolutely! Obama is Putin's bitch. Life must be tough in Putin's pressure cooker.
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Now Obama might cancel the one on one meeting with Putin at the G8 summit this year.
I'm sure that's the end of the world for the Russians. Obama needs the meeting a damn' sight more than Putin does, if anything such a move will just boost Putin's popularity.
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I'm sure that's the end of the world for the Russians. Obama needs the meeting a damn' sight more than Putin does, if anything such a move will just boost Putin's popularity.
I think Obummer is afraid of Putin. He'll just act like a pouty child.