The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on May 21, 2013, 09:23:10 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022879941
Tue May 21, 2013, 04:36 PM
Star Member ScreamingMeemie (60,847 posts)
ACLU of Florida Statement on Prosecution of 18-Year-Old Kaitlyn Hunt
Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 05:18 PM USA/ET - Edit history (3)
http://aclufl.org/2013/05/21/aclu-of-florida-statement-on-prosecution-of-18-year-old-kaitlyn-hunt/
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he following is a statement from the ACLU of Florida on the case of Kaitlyn Hunt, a Sebastian, Florida high school student who faces felony charges for having a relationship with a 15-year-old female schoolmate.
The ACLU of Florida condemns the prosecution of 18-year-old Kaitlyn Hunt. The facts as we understand them suggest that the state is prosecuting Kaitlyn for engaging in behavior that is both fairly innocuous and extremely common. Such behavior occurs every day in tens of thousands of high schools across the country, yet those other students are not facing felony convictions (and, in Florida, the lifetime consequences of a felony conviction) and potential lifelong branding as sex offenders. This is a life sentence for behavior by teenagers that is all too common, whether they are male or female, gay or straight. High-school relationships may be fleeting, but felony convictions are not.
While effective laws are certainly needed to protect Florida’s children from sexual predators, one cannot seriously maintain that Kaitlyn’s behavior was predatory. Application of this law to Kaitlyn’s conduct is another example of the troubling trend in Florida and across the country of criminalizing teenagers. The school-to-prison pipeline is filled with students whose behavior is better addressed by school officials and parents, not by a criminal justice system that turns ordinary teenagers into convicted felons who are prevented from meaningfully contributing to society because of their unjust convictions. Even if Kaitlyn is able to avoid sex-offender registration, a felony conviction will harm her for the rest of her life, catastrophically damaging her employment prospects and even her right to participate in her community as a citizen and vote.
Her promising future could be ruined merely because she engaged in behavior that countless other students in every school operating under the state attorney’s jurisdiction also engage in. This prosecution does nothing to protect Florida’s young people but instead causes a great deal of harm.
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http://www.change.org/petitions/assistant-state-attorney-brian-workman-stop-the-prosecution-of-an-18-year-old-girl-in-a-same-sex-relationship
On edit: It has also come out today that the state attorney has dropped charges in a similar case (same ages/same district) just today.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreeKate/
http://www.freekate.net/
Her mother's words on how this came about, for those concerned about the facts:
As the summer of 2012 came to an end, the future looked bright for 17-year-old Sebastian River High School senior Kaitlyn Hunt. Voted the student with "Most School Spirit" by her peers, Kaitlyn was an active cheerleader, a basketball player, a camp counselor and cheering coach, and a medical assistant training to join the nursing program at Valencia College after graduation. She looked forward to a career helping others and a memorable final year of high school.
"At the beginning of the school year, Kaitlyn made friends with a 14-year-old freshmen girl in Sebastian River High's IB program who played varsity sports and took classes with upper classmen. The girls were peers in the same social circle, and as happens every day high schools across America, their friendship eventually developed into more. In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.
When the girls' basketball coach found out that two of her players were dating, she kicked Kaitlyn off the team and informed her girlfriend's parents that their daughter was in a same-sex relationship. The parents then conspired with police to entrap Kaitlyn and press charges.
The police recorded a phone conversation between the two girls, who today are 18 and 15, in which they discussed their relationship. Kaitlyn was arrested and charged with two counts of felony lewd and lascivious battery on a child 12-16. Kaitlyn's girlfriend denies that Kaitlyn ever pressured her and is adamant that their relationship is entirely consensual, but her parents are out to destroy Kaitlyn's life. After two separate judges ruled that Kaitlyn could finish her senior year with her peers, her girlfriend's parents appealed to the Indian River County School Board, who expelled Kaitlyn sent her to the alternative school.
The law is designed to protect our children, but the law does not serve its purpose when it is applied to consensual behavior between peers."
Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #1)
Tue May 21, 2013, 04:54 PM
Star Member ScreamingMeemie (60,847 posts)
4. There is a window of opportunity that was used here...
The girls met on the same basketball team when Kaitlyn was 17 and the other girl was 14. The basketball coach (I might add "Coach of the Year" in FL this year) kicked Kaitlyn off the team and called the other child's parents. the parents (Pentecostals, I might add) called the police instead of Kaitlyn's parents (which is what normal parents would do if face with a situation and they didn't want their child dating someone older), and had Kaitlyn arrested when she turned 18.
They felt that Kaitlyn had "turned their daughter gay."
Just when we think we're getting somewhere.
When she turned 18, she became an adult. She had two options, either wait until the other girl turned 18 or find another adult to taste.
Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #4)
Tue May 21, 2013, 05:45 PM
Yo_Mama (3,670 posts)
11. This law is often used against older boyfriends of whom the parents disapprove
This is their law:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0800/Sections/0800.04.html
If you're 18, you cannot have sex with a person under 16. It's a second degree felony. Yes, most parents won't report it, but threatening to report it allows them to stop a consensual relationship of a 13, 14 or 15 year-old with an older person of whom they disapprove.
I don't think the age of consent is going to be lowered in Florida
Seems clear to me.
Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #16)
Tue May 21, 2013, 07:32 PM
Bully Taw (87 posts)
18. do you believe that...
this woman did not know the child's age? Of course she did. Going to school together (18+ and under age kids) does not mean they have to have sex. Restraint is the word I'm looking for. Some students graduate when they are 19, and they go to school with freshmen who often are 15. Because they go to school together does not mean that they can have sex. If my 15 year old daughter came home with an 18 year old boyfriend/girlfriend, i would most certainly have a problem with it. these laws are in place to protect children that do not have parents that are looking out for their well being.
Not in a liberals vocabulary.
Response to ScreamingMeemie (Reply #16)
Tue May 21, 2013, 07:39 PM
shawn703 (1,666 posts)
22. Freshmen are generally 14-15 years old
An 18 year old senior doesn't need to see proof of age to know that someone in the freshman class should be off limits by subtracting three years from their own age.
I think most people can get through their senior year of high school without taking advantage of freshmen, so there's no need to kick them out once they reach 18.
A DUmmy and math don't go together.
Response to shawn703 (Reply #22)
Tue May 21, 2013, 07:46 PM
Star Member ScreamingMeemie (60,847 posts)
27. My son's freshman class is made up of 14-17 year olds.
I think most parents don't flip out and call the police when their children have relationships with fellow classmates. (My son went to homecoming with a girl 2.5 years older than him) They speak with the child or the parents if they have a problem. It really is that simple. I think most of the time we don't hear about this because most parents aren't idiots.
In case you question the age differences in my son's class, Bush's Texas NCLB EOC testing has led to major age discrepancies, along with ending age restrictions on public school attendance.
Bullshit.
Response to Bully Taw (Reply #26)
Tue May 21, 2013, 09:02 PM
Star Member ScreamingMeemie (60,847 posts)
33. Please reread our discussion.
Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 09:03 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Here is how I would handle it when it involves two high school kids (no, she isn't an adult).
1-I don't like it that my son is seeing an 18 year old in his class or in his group of friends so I...
2-Tell him to stop. And if he doesn't stop I then...
3-Talk to the child and his/her parents...
I would then...if this does not end (and it rarely comes to this)
contact the school and then the police to issue a warning.
Sorry, but they're peers.
I'm not in the habit of ruining the future of a good student, etc.
I would also not demand that the school board expel her once a judge has put a restraining order in place and said she could return to school.
Sorry. But, I'd rather the courts prosecute actual adult criminals.
And that, as the facts state, is NOT what happened here.
The police are not going to issue a warning. They are going to arrest her as a sexual deviant.
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Well, bitch slap if you must, but I find this ridiculous, too. Plenty of freshmen girls date seniors who are or turn 18 while they're together. Whether we like it or not, even if our children wouldn't do it, they are having sex. I dated a senior when I was in 9th grade and our middle schools are grades 7-9. Every gay person I know, knew they were gay when they were teens. Honestly, most people don't think twice about some cute little freshman cheerleader dating a senior football player. The two started dating when one was 15 and the other was 17. Now, the parents may have not liked their daughter dating another woman but they should have at least talked to their daughter first, especially since the dating was consensual.
Cindie
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I think the operative phrases were "age of consent" and "intimate relationship".
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Well, bitch slap if you must, but I find this ridiculous, too. Plenty of freshmen girls date seniors who are or turn 18 while they're together. Whether we like it or not, even if our children wouldn't do it, they are having sex. I dated a senior when I was in 9th grade and our middle schools are grades 7-9. Every gay person I know, knew they were gay when they were teens. Honestly, most people don't think twice about some cute little freshman cheerleader dating a senior football player. The two started dating when one was 15 and the other was 17. Now, the parents may have not liked their daughter dating another woman but they should have at least talked to their daughter first, especially since the dating was consensual.
Cindie
I still wonder if the parents of the younger girl tried to break them up before the older one turned 18. If the other parents didn't go along, maybe they just waited until it became illegal. Supposedly they didn't complain before, but how many times have gays or lesbians claimed victimhood when it didn't exist?
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Response to shawn703 (Reply #22)
Tue May 21, 2013, 07:46 PM
Star Member ScreamingMeemie (60,847 posts)
In case you question the age differences in my son's class, Bush's Texas NCLB EOC testing has led to major age discrepancies, along with ending age restrictions on public school attendance.
You retards do realize that the author of that piece of legislation was the drunken Oldsmobile salesman, right?
Right? Sure. The liberal whoremonger who drives off bridges. Drunk. At night. Was he from Texas, too?
Ringing a bell yet?
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You retards do realize that the author of that piece of legislation was the drunken Oldsmobile salesman, right?
Right? Sure. The liberal whoremonger who drives off bridges. Drunk. At night. Was he from Texas, too?
Ringing a bell yet?
You left off the "...with his secretary in the car, who he leaves to suffocate in a submerged car." part that goes between "bridges" and "Drunk".
Did you mention he was married at the time? (Not to the dead secretary).
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I agree with Cindie. My daughter is dating a senior now, well as few opportunities we and his parents allow as a date and they met when he was 17. They went to prom together. I
disagree on the gay thing though. I knew some that I would say I knew were gay in high school bit two very close gay friends were interested in females as teens. Both went on and were preyed and groomed as late teens by older gay men and both lacked a good male role model growing up. It's why I don't fully subscribe to the 'born that way' theory.
In this case I do happen to agree with some duers that this is probably more about the parents objection to the same sex relationship then the age however the adult ie 18 year old should always be cognoscent that once they turn 18 they are taking a risk with over zealous parents.
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If this were a story about a stright couple, and the senior was male, there would have been a ton of posts about 'abusing a position of power'
Where are all those posts now ?
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If this were a story about a stright couple, and the senior was male, there would have been a ton of posts about 'abusing a position of power'
Where are all those posts now ?
Exactly.
Their double standard is showing.
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Illegal, maybe; paedophilia, definitely not. It's an extremely misused word on this board for some reason.
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Exactly.
Their double standard is showing.
BINGO!!
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If this were a story about a stright couple, and the senior was male, there would have been a ton of posts about 'abusing a position of power'
Where are all those posts now ?
What position of power does a senior hold?
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Illegal, maybe; paedophilia, definitely not. It's an extremely misused word on this board for some reason.
I disagree; in fact, due to personal experience with this breed of pervert, I really think the identifier probably isn't used often enough.
My sister was 14 when her 20-year old "boyfriend" impregnated her with my niece. Because of the "kids will be kids" mindset, the state of Washington declined to prosecute the lad for statutory rape, a crime for which he was clearly guilty, and in fact, later granted him joint custody of my niece. Well, come to find out later, that his predilection for younger than legal poontang didn't end when he "became a daddy"; starting about the time my niece was 12, the lad's neighbors were filing complaints that he was molesting her. It took until she was 17 before the prosecutor's office was willing to step in and charge him - they charged him with 2nd degree molestation, and my niece was prepared to testify that he'd raped her as well. Then, the day before she was supposed to appear in court to testify against him, he had her disappeared - with the assistance of his father, a county sheriff's dispatcher. Surprise; prosecution's key witness isn't there to testify, the judge "was forced" to dismiss the case. Two years after my niece reappeared, we're still waiting for the prosecutor to pull his head out of his ass and do his job, and my niece's sperm donor has skipped the state.
Point of the story is that the lad was a pedophile when he committed his original act of statutory rape, and if the hand wringers had only properly identified him as such and prosecuted him on it instead of looking the other way, a whole lot of heartache might have been avoided.
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Stone the lesbian. The Religion of Peace demands it. While you've got the stones out - stone the DUmmie goons too. Logic demands it.
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Stone the lesbian. The Religion of Peace demands it. While you've got the stones out - stone the DUmmie goons too. Logic demands it.
Just tell the DUmmies "let's go get stoned", and they'd show up in droves.
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I disagree; in fact, due to personal experience with this breed of pervert, I really think the identifier probably isn't used often enough.
In this case, the 18 year old woman did not commit acts of pedophilia, as the 14 year old had reached puberty. She did commit statutory rape even though the 14 year old was participating voluntarily.
My sister was 14 when her 20-year old "boyfriend" impregnated her with my niece. Because of the "kids will be kids" mindset, the state of Washington declined to prosecute the lad for statutory rape, a crime for which he was clearly guilty, and in fact, later granted him joint custody of my niece. Well, come to find out later, that his predilection for younger than legal poontang didn't end when he "became a daddy"; starting about the time my niece was 12, the lad's neighbors were filing complaints that he was molesting her. It took until she was 17 before the prosecutor's office was willing to step in and charge him - they charged him with 2nd degree molestation, and my niece was prepared to testify that he'd raped her as well. Then, the day before she was supposed to appear in court to testify against him, he had her disappeared - with the assistance of his father, a county sheriff's dispatcher. Surprise; prosecution's key witness isn't there to testify, the judge "was forced" to dismiss the case. Two years after my niece reappeared, we're still waiting for the prosecutor to pull his head out of his ass and do his job, and my niece's sperm donor has skipped the state.
Point of the story is that the lad was a pedophile when he committed his original act of statutory rape, and if the hand wringers had only properly identified him as such and prosecuted him on it instead of looking the other way, a whole lot of heartache might have been avoided.
Although you wrote "he had her disappeared", your niece, at the age of 17, voluntarily left and was unavailable to testify. She returned later and now wants to testify. Is that correct?
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Just tell the DUmmies "let's go get stoned", and they'd show up in droves.
The National Anthem of DUmmytopia:
[youtube=425,350]BI-H_27NptM[/youtube]
"Everybody must get stoned!"
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Just tell the DUmmies "let's go get stoned", and they'd show up in droves.
Mention that you'll supply the rocks and DUmmydom would shut down as there would be no one left to post.
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Although you wrote "he had her disappeared", your niece, at the age of 17, voluntarily left and was unavailable to testify. She returned later and now wants to testify. Is that correct?
No, she did not "go voluntarily", BD. She was taken, and held against her will by "a third party", for about 3 months. According to my sister's attorney, if the sperm donor ever shows up on the grid again, they have enough evidence to add kidnapping to his list of charges.
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Illegal, maybe; paedophilia, definitely not. It's an extremely misused word on this board for some reason.
I think some are confused by the actual definition of pedophilia.
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Sorry, I'm having a hard time getting worked up over this one. The parents of the younger child did in fact overreact.
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Sorry, I'm having a hard time getting worked up over this one. The parents of the younger child did in fact overreact.
Yeah, that's how I see it, too.
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No, she did not "go voluntarily", BD. She was taken, and held against her will by "a third party", for about 3 months. According to my sister's attorney, if the sperm donor ever shows up on the grid again, they have enough evidence to add kidnapping to his list of charges.
Thanks for clarifying.
If the state has sufficient evidence to add a kidnapping charge, why is there currently no arrest warrant for the ex-boyfriend or the third party?
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Thanks for clarifying.
If the state has sufficient evidence to add a kidnapping charge, why is there currently no arrest warrant for the ex-boyfriend or the third party?
The "third party" got a deal in exchange for "testifying" against the lad.
As for the lad himself, two words.
"He skipped."
I know there is a warrant for his arrest, but the word is they have no idea where to serve it.
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Two words.
"He skipped."
I'm not being an asshole, but that doesn't make sense.
If the police have sufficient evidence that he committed the felony to meet the legal standard of "probable cause", then why is there no arrest warrant? The suspect's presence in, or absence from, the jurisdiction does not matter.
An arrest warrant for a felony would cause the suspect to be held after any traffic stop in the United States, and be extradited back to Washington.
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I'm not being an asshole, but that doesn't make sense.
If the police have sufficient evidence that he committed the felony to meet the legal standard of "probable cause", then why is there no arrest warrant? The suspect's presence in, or absence from, the jurisdiction does not matter.
An arrest warrant for a felony would cause the suspect to be held after any traffic stop in the United States, and be extradited back to Washington.
Please see the revised post. No offense taken, bro.
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"While effective laws are certainly needed to protect Florida’s children from sexual predators,"
The ACLU and other liberals fight tooth and nail against any law needed to protect children from sexual predators.
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Please see the revised post. No offense taken, bro.
OK, I understand now. Thanks!
It sounds tough for your niece. Good thing she has you and the rest of your family.
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Sorry, I'm having a hard time getting worked up over this one. The parents of the younger child did in fact overreact.
Maybe true. Maybe not. Point is that the DUmmies overacted. If it enrages them, causing them to get into a poop flinging episode, facts are of secondary importance.
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I agree with Cindie. My daughter is dating a senior now, well as few opportunities we and his parents allow as a date and they met when he was 17. They went to prom together. I
disagree on the gay thing though. I knew some that I would say I knew were gay in high school bit two very close gay friends were interested in females as teens. Both went on and were preyed and groomed as late teens by older gay men and both lacked a good male role model growing up. It's why I don't fully subscribe to the 'born that way' theory.
In this case I do happen to agree with some duers that this is probably more about the parents objection to the same sex relationship then the age however the adult ie 18 year old should always be cognoscent that once they turn 18 they are taking a risk with over zealous parents.
But one day she's 17 and in love and the next day she's 18 and in love and she's supposed to be cognisant of the law? She's in high school and not even thinking about it. There's a bazillion things on her mind: tests, finals, getting into college, what she thinks she wants to do for the rest of her life, sports (if she plays), homework, friends, etc.
Cindie
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In Florida this is very common especially in your ghettos. Men with young girls. Only difference with this case is someone was vocal about it. Someone showed a concern.
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But one day she's 17 and in love and the next day she's 18 and in love and she's supposed to be cognisant of the law? She's in high school and not even thinking about it. There's a bazillion things on her mind: tests, finals, getting into college, what she thinks she wants to do for the rest of her life, sports (if she plays), homework, friends, etc.
Cindie
....the parents of her Juliet telling her to stay the hell away from their daughter. I don't buy what the media has said because the media has an agenda in cases like this. Regardless that she was still in high school, not a classmate of her girlfriend, she had turned eighteen. In her case fifteen could get her twenty. She should have known better but apparently not. If she were a guy absolutely no one would have much pity.
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....the parents of her Juliet telling her to stay the hell away from their daughter. I don't buy what the media has said because the media has an agenda in cases like this. Regardless that she was still in high school, not a classmate of her girlfriend, she had turned eighteen. In her case fifteen could get her twenty. She should have known better but apparently not. If she were a guy absolutely no one would have much pity.
So what do you call 2 high school students who attend the same school? I've always called them "classmates". They were also "peers in the same social circle". I'd bet that included students of all ages. Mine did. When my oldest son was in 2nd grade one of the kids in the school had cancer. Her "classmates" who were not all from the same class, but were friends would go visit her in the hospitals. When she was gone for a while because she was so sick the teachers had their students make get well cards for her. They were from her "classmates" even though they were in grades K-6.
Still, I don't expect a kid that is 17 one day (and able to legally be with a girlfriend/boyfriend) and 18 the next day and understand it's illegal to date the same person. How many 18 year olds that are in high school do think about that? How many parents (whether their daughters/sons are dating someone 18 or younger) tell them to not see whoever they're dating? My guess, the majority don't listen. If we were talking a 20 year old or someone who'd been out of high school for a while that would be one thing but these two hung out together before they started dating. Didn't you ever date someone who was in the same social circle you were?
Cindie
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Hmm, we have an array of differing opinions in this thread, and no 1 has become uncivil, and no 1 threatened to put those they disagree with on the iggy list. Will DU notice that?
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Still, I don't expect a kid that is 17 one day (and able to legally be with a girlfriend/boyfriend) and 18 the next day and understand it's illegal to date the same person. How many 18 year olds that are in high school do think about that? How many parents (whether their daughters/sons are dating someone 18 or younger) tell them to not see whoever they're dating? My guess, the majority don't listen. If we were talking a 20 year old or someone who'd been out of high school for a while that would be one thing but these two hung out together before they started dating. Didn't you ever date someone who was in the same social circle you were?
Cindie
Cindie,
The 18 year old woman was not arrested for dating a 14 year old, she was arrested for engaging in sexual contact or intercourse with a 14 year old.
I disagree with you: the 18 year old was responsible to know she was breaking the law, and it is reasonable to expect her to know the law and to follow it. It's reasonable to blame her mother and father for poor parenting, but the ultimate responsibility falls on the young woman, who is an adult in the eyes of the law. If she had killed the 14 year old, she would not be able to plead ignorance of the law.
Using examples from my own life:
*Before I turned 14, I knew the voting age was 18.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal drinking age was 18, and the punishment for Minor in Possession of Alcohol.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal smoking age was 18, and the punishment I could expect from my father if I was caught with cigarettes.
*Before I turned 14, I knew I was eligible for a farm driving permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was eligible for a learner's permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was required to take Hunter's Safety class before I could get a hunting license.
*Before I turned 16, I knew I was eligible for a driver's license on my birthday.
*Before I turned 17, I knew I was eligible to enlist in the Armed Forces on my birthday.
*At the age of 17 years, 1 month, and 15 days I was standing in formation at Ft Dix, NJ with my first Army haircut.
*At the age of 17 years, 3 months, I was responsible for safely and effectively operating an M16 rifle, hand grenade, M60 machine gun, M2 machine gun, Claymore mine, and M203 grenade launcher.
*At the age of 17 years, 7 months, I completed Army medic school, with all the responsibilities of that job.
*At the age of 17 years, 9 months I completed the Army flight medic course, with all the responsibilities of that job.
If she's old enough to enjoy the benefits of adulthood (voting, smoking, buying a car, etc.), then she's old enough to be held responsible for being an adult (statutory rape). I have no sympathy for her.
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Hmm, we have an array of differing opinions in this thread, and no 1 has become uncivil, and no 1 threatened to put those they disagree with on the iggy list. Will DU notice that?
Sorry, I was ignoring you. What did you say?
:-)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us/florida-18-year-old-arrested-for-encounters-with-friend-14-gets-online-support.html?_r=0
A sheriff’s deputy interviewed Ms. Hunt. In a summary of her statement, he wrote that she had confirmed having a sexual encounter with the girl in the school bathroom and in her bedroom. The younger girl’s name is blotted out throughout the publicly released form, but the final line of the report tackles the difference in age. When he asked Ms. Hunt if she knew it was wrong to have sex with the 14-year-old, “Kaitlyn stated that she did not think about it because†the girl “acted older.â€
Many men are in prison for thinking that exact same thing.
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So what do you call 2 high school students who attend the same school? I've always called them "classmates". They were also "peers in the same social circle". I'd bet that included students of all ages. Mine did. When my oldest son was in 2nd grade one of the kids in the school had cancer. Her "classmates" who were not all from the same class, but were friends would go visit her in the hospitals. When she was gone for a while because she was so sick the teachers had their students make get well cards for her. They were from her "classmates" even though they were in grades K-6.
Still, I don't expect a kid that is 17 one day (and able to legally be with a girlfriend/boyfriend) and 18 the next day and understand it's illegal to date the same person. How many 18 year olds that are in high school do think about that? How many parents (whether their daughters/sons are dating someone 18 or younger) tell them to not see whoever they're dating? My guess, the majority don't listen. If we were talking a 20 year old or someone who'd been out of high school for a while that would be one thing but these two hung out together before they started dating. Didn't you ever date someone who was in the same social circle you were?
Cindie
An 18 year old in the Army with a 16 year old girlfriend has the same problem. When he joined the Army, that girl turned into jail bait even though he took her to the prom just a few months ago, even if he has her parents approval.
No, I didn't date within my social circle.
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Cindie,
The 18 year old woman was not arrested for dating a 14 year old, she was arrested for engaging in sexual contact or intercourse with a 14 year old.
I disagree with you: the 18 year old was responsible to know she was breaking the law, and it is reasonable to expect her to know the law and to follow it. It's reasonable to blame her mother and father for poor parenting, but the ultimate responsibility falls on the young woman, who is an adult in the eyes of the law. If she had killed the 14 year old, she would not be able to plead ignorance of the law.
Using examples from my own life:
*Before I turned 14, I knew the voting age was 18.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal drinking age was 18, and the punishment for Minor in Possession of Alcohol.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal smoking age was 18, and the punishment I could expect from my father if I was caught with cigarettes.
*Before I turned 14, I knew I was eligible for a farm driving permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was eligible for a learner's permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was required to take Hunter's Safety class before I could get a hunting license.
*Before I turned 16, I knew I was eligible for a driver's license on my birthday.
*Before I turned 17, I knew I was eligible to enlist in the Armed Forces on my birthday.
*At the age of 17 years, 1 month, and 15 days I was standing in formation at Ft Dix, NJ with my first Army haircut.
*At the age of 17 years, 3 months, I was responsible for safely and effectively operating an M16 rifle, hand grenade, M60 machine gun, M2 machine gun, Claymore mine, and M203 grenade launcher.
*At the age of 17 years, 7 months, I completed Army medic school, with all the responsibilities of that job.
*At the age of 17 years, 9 months I completed the Army flight medic course, with all the responsibilities of that job.
If she's old enough to enjoy the benefits of adulthood (voting, smoking, buying a car, etc.), then she's old enough to be held responsible for being an adult (statutory rape). I have no sympathy for her.
So, you're a Jr., that just turned 17, dating a freshman, who's 14-15. You date the girl for 2 years. Your 18th birthday is at the end of your Sr. year. The day before you turn 18, are you going to break up with your girlfriend of 2 years, minus a few days, because "it's the law"?
Are you guys sure you're not taking this position due to it being a lesbian? My father, USMC, 0811 '69-'73, was born in 1951. My mother, 1954. I was born in 1973. My mother was in H.S. when I was conceived. She was < 18. Is my father, who is STILL married to my mother, a pedophile?
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So, you're a Jr., that just turned 17, dating a freshman, who's 14-15. You date the girl for 2 years. Your 18th birthday is at the end of your Sr. year. The day before you turn 18, are you going to break up with your girlfriend of 2 years, minus a few days, because "it's the law"?
Are you guys sure you're not taking this position due to it being a lesbian? My father, USMC, 0811 '69-'73, was born in 1951. My mother, 1954. I was born in 1973. My mother was in H.S. when I was conceived. She was < 18. Is my father, who is STILL married to my mother, a pedophile?
Dating is not the issue. It's the sexual encounters.
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Dating is not the issue. It's the sexual encounters.
I was born in '73. My mother was in H.S. and under 18. She was 17 when I was conceived.
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In Florida this is very common especially in your ghettos. Men with young girls. Only difference with this case is someone was vocal about it. Someone showed a concern.
Yeah, well, there's a bit of difference between a relationship between a 15 and 18 year old, and the "relationships" between 30 year olds and 13 year olds of which you speak. And yeah, see that too when I lived in CA.
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Yeah, well, there's a bit of difference between a relationship between a 15 and 18 year old, and the "relationships" between 30 year olds and 13 year olds of which you speak. And yeah, see that too when I lived in CA.
Totally agree.
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I was born in '73. My mother was in H.S. and under 18. She was 17 when I was conceived.
I've read several accounts of this incident. Some report that the parents waited until the older girl was 18 to press charges. Others have said that the parents pressed charges before the younger girl turned 16. After she turned 16, the relationship would be legal.
That being said, being in a sexual relationship at 17 is a big difference than at 14 when the partner is over 18.
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Yeah, well, there's a bit of difference between a relationship between a 15 and 18 year old, and the "relationships" between 30 year olds and 13 year olds of which you speak. And yeah, see that too when I lived in CA.
Sometimes it's not even 30 year olds. Sometimes it's 18 with a 14 year old.
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Should I call the cops on my wife? She was 18 and I was 16. O-)
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So, you're a Jr., that just turned 17, dating a freshman, who's 14-15. You date the girl for 2 years. Your 18th birthday is at the end of your Sr. year. The day before you turn 18, are you going to break up with your girlfriend of 2 years, minus a few days, because "it's the law"?
Would I break up with my underage girlfriend? No. But, if I could go to prison for having sex with the girl, I wouldn't have sex with her. "Dating" and "having sex" are not the same thing.
Are you guys sure you're not taking this position due to it being a lesbian?
I won't speak for anyone else. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the 18 year old being a lesbian. She's 18, the girl is 14.
My father, USMC, 0811 '69-'73, was born in 1951. My mother, 1954. I was born in 1973. My mother was in H.S. when I was conceived. She was < 18. Is my father, who is STILL married to my mother, a pedophile?
Unless your father was sexually attracted to your mother before she had her first menstrual period, he was not a pedophile. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to a prepubescent child. I'm talking about statutory rape (sexual intercourse with a person below the legal age of consent).
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Should I call the cops on my wife? She was 18 and I was 16. O-)
Are you complaining, or bragging?
:lmao:
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Should I call the cops on my wife? She was 18 and I was 16. O-)
In the FL case, once the younger girl reached 16, she could give legal consent to the sexual aspect of the relationship.
There are women in prison for having a sexual relationship with a 14 year old boy.
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Unless your father was sexually attracted to your mother before she had her first menstrual period, he was not a pedophile. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to a prepubescent child. I'm talking about statutory rape (sexual intercourse with a person below the legal age of consent).
14 years old isn't prepubescence. But no, they started dating when she was 16. He was 19, IIRC. This was not all that uncommon until recently.
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BTW, it says she was 15. The other girl was 18. We're talking 3 years difference. Pedophilia? Hardly.
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BTW, it says she was 15. The other girl was 18. We're talking 3 years difference. Pedophilia? Hardly.
The choice of words used in my title, as in all of my titles, are chosen to increase the anger and further enrage lurking DUmmies.
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Should I call the cops on my wife? She was 18 and I was 16. O-)
Naw. Slap the cuffs on her, and tell her it's a citizen's arrest. Then proceed to use "enhanced interrogation techniques" to get to the bottom of things. :-)
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Sorry, I was ignoring you. What did you say?
:-)
:lmao:
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Completely disagree with some of the opinions here. No way would I want my 14 yr old dating an 18 yr old. There is a world of difference between those 2 ages, and the older will certainly have the power to manipulate and persuade, barring mental retardation. To say it is all OK because they attend the same school is ridiculous. There are some kids that start high school at 13, and some still languishing there at 19-20. (It is legal here to attend high school up to the age of 21). So, should a 19-20 yr old be allowed to date and have sex with a 13 yr old just because they both attend the same school?
This 18 yr old lesbian performed oral sex on the 14 yr old on the floor of the school bathroom. Who does that? Who would not be upset about their daughter engaging in such behavior, and enraged at the older teen for instigating it? If you found out your 14 yr old daughter was being boinked by an 18 yr old man on the bathroom floor, you'd be all cool with it, right? But it is OK because these are lezzies?
The whole "She has too much on her mind to realize it became illegal on her 18th b'day" excuse is ridiculous. It will become legal on a person's 21st birthday to buy alcohol. No judge is going to accept the excuse "I had too much on my mind to realize it was illegal" if they are caught purchasing it or in possession of it before then.
As for everyone saying "Oh yeah, well my daddy is 4 yrs older than my mother..." that is also ridiculous and comparing apples to oranges, assuming those relationships began at an appropriate age. There is a world of difference between a couple that is 14yrs old and 18 yrs old dating and having sex, and a couple that is say 22 yrs old and 26 yrs old. There is a huge difference between an 14 and an 18 yr old, not as much between a 22 yr old and 26 yr old. There isn't even as much difference between an 18 yr old and a 22 yr old as there is between a 14 yr old and 18 yr old. A 14 yr old is considered a minor, a child for a reason. They are not permitted to consent to sex.
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....the parents of her Juliet telling her to stay the hell away from their daughter. I don't buy what the media has said because the media has an agenda in cases like this. Regardless that she was still in high school, not a classmate of her girlfriend, she had turned eighteen. In her case fifteen could get her twenty. She should have known better but apparently not. If she were a guy absolutely no one would have much pity.
They absolutely have an agenda, and have distorted the hell out of the facts on this case intentionally. Kaitlyn's parents and the pro-gay, Christian-phobe MSM have done a great job of manipulating the information coming out. They have gone on a false smear campaign against the other girl's parents in an attempt to gather support for their daughter and put pressure on the authorities to drop the charges since she's clearly guilty of statutory rape under the law.
Here's a list of the false claims made by Kaitlyn's parents:
1) The other parents only are pushing charges because they're anti-gay. Truth is the parents came out today and said that they would have done the same thing if it was an 18 year old boy messing with their 14 year old daughter
2) The girls were 17 and 15. Truth is they were 18 and 14 per the arrest affidavit sited in the initial question
3) It started when they were minors and wasn't illegal then. False, Kaitlyn turned 18 in August and didn't even meet the other girl until the school year started later in the year
4) The other parents maliciously waited until Kaitlyn turned 18 so they could get her charged with a crime. Kaitlyn was 18 the entire time and the parents filed a complaint as soon as they learned about the sexual relationship following a January 4th incident when their daughter ran away and ended up at Kaitlyn's house where they had sex. There was no "waiting" as has been claimed
5) She's being charged just for things like holding hands and kissing. False, in the affidavit, both girls admit that there were 2 incidences in the school bathroom where there was manual sex (fingering) and oral sex, then the one at Kaitlyn's house where there was manual, oral and use of a vibrator.
People are jumping on the lesbian's side because the media loves a "poor, victimized gay girl" story, Kaitlyn's parents are running an effective media smear campaign on the other parents, and people are too lazy to do their homework and get the truth before lashing out. Every Gay is a victim, and they are never, ever responsible for their own behavior.
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Naw. Slap the cuffs on her, and tell her it's a citizen's arrest. Then proceed to use "enhanced interrogation techniques" to get to the bottom of things. :-)
Oh to be 16 again. :p
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Okay, peeps--you want to get upset over something? Get upset over THIS.
http://fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130524/GJNEWS_01/130529486
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Should I call the cops on my wife? She was 18 and I was 16. O-)
No.
But I'd have her involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation.
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No.
But I'd have her involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation.
Come on here everyone of us has to be introduced to sex in some manor at some time in our life.
My thinking on this is that if my daughter were targeted for sex by another female at 14 by a 17 year old girl what do you do ??? Options galore , hide and watch, get involved, thank God your child will not get pregnant, or destroy both of them and their lives by calling the cops ????
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Come on here everyone of us has to be introduced to sex in some manor at some time in our life.
My thinking on this is that if my daughter were targeted for sex by another female at 14 by a 17 year old girl what do you do ??? Options galore , hide and watch, get involved, thank God your child will not get pregnant, or destroy both of them and their lives by calling the cops ????
Kaitlyn was 18, the girl was 14, Full stop. The law does not care what the sex of the adult or the minor was. The minor could not legally give consent. Under that legal and fair standard, Kaitlyn is guilty of exactly what she is charged with and the prosecutor has all the evidence he will need to get a conviction. This is not the result of an overzealous prosecutor's office.
As far as your post....
Hide and watch....Uhm, disgusting and wrong.
Get involved...Possibly even more disgusting, unless you are talking about stopping them.
thank god your child will not get pregnant...Are you sure she is only banging girls if she's having sex? There are still diseases to worry about, and other issues to consider.
destroy both of them and their lives by calling the cops... The eighteen year old will be stopped, it is better for her if the cops do it.
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Come on here everyone of us has to be introduced to sex in some manor at some time in our life.
My thinking on this is that if my daughter were targeted for sex by another female at 14 by a 17 year old girl what do you do ??? Options galore , hide and watch, get involved, thank God your child will not get pregnant, or destroy both of them and their lives by calling the cops ????
This is crazy talk, vesta.
Time to put you in the Crazy Box!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/conscave/dump_catsmob_dot_com_02775_014-vi_zps0e8c18d0.jpg)
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Cindie,
The 18 year old woman was not arrested for dating a 14 year old, she was arrested for engaging in sexual contact or intercourse with a 14 year old.
I disagree with you: the 18 year old was responsible to know she was breaking the law, and it is reasonable to expect her to know the law and to follow it. It's reasonable to blame her mother and father for poor parenting, but the ultimate responsibility falls on the young woman, who is an adult in the eyes of the law. If she had killed the 14 year old, she would not be able to plead ignorance of the law.
Using examples from my own life:
*Before I turned 14, I knew the voting age was 18.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal drinking age was 18, and the punishment for Minor in Possession of Alcohol.
*Before I turned 14, I knew the legal smoking age was 18, and the punishment I could expect from my father if I was caught with cigarettes.
*Before I turned 14, I knew I was eligible for a farm driving permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was eligible for a learner's permit on my birthday.
*Before I turned 15, I knew I was required to take Hunter's Safety class before I could get a hunting license.
*Before I turned 16, I knew I was eligible for a driver's license on my birthday.
*Before I turned 17, I knew I was eligible to enlist in the Armed Forces on my birthday.
*At the age of 17 years, 1 month, and 15 days I was standing in formation at Ft Dix, NJ with my first Army haircut.
*At the age of 17 years, 3 months, I was responsible for safely and effectively operating an M16 rifle, hand grenade, M60 machine gun, M2 machine gun, Claymore mine, and M203 grenade launcher.
*At the age of 17 years, 7 months, I completed Army medic school, with all the responsibilities of that job.
*At the age of 17 years, 9 months I completed the Army flight medic course, with all the responsibilities of that job.
If she's old enough to enjoy the benefits of adulthood (voting, smoking, buying a car, etc.), then she's old enough to be held responsible for being an adult (statutory rape). I have no sympathy for her.
I didn't think of any of those things. I had very little guidance growing up. As long as I stayed out of the way and didn't embarrass my mom in front of her friends, I was on my own. And I'd bet just about anything the sex between the two was consentual. I was that 15 year old (only not with a girl). Had my mom (or rather her friends) found out what I was doing and the crowd I was running with, she would have been embarrassed enough to care.
I knew the legal age for drinking and smoking, too. I just didn't care.
I knew drugs were illegal. I just didn't care.
I knew the age I would be old enough to move out. I ended up moving out when I turned 17.
I worked when I was a teen, it was probably the most responsible part of my life, but if I didn't, I wouldn't have a car, clothes, birth control or money for lunch.
I learned responsibility the hard way. We don't really know either of these girls' personal situations. Because of my own experiences, I guess I can understand the situation these girls found themselves in. And if the 15 year old is gay, she'll be gay when she's 18, too. And teens are hardly rational when they're young and in love. Walk in another person's shoes and all that.
It's kinda like understanding that the majority of prostitutes were molested. You can judge them and think they're going to hell, but at least you have an understanding of why that is. No one respected them, their body or their virginity when they were children, where are they supposed to learn to respect themselves.
But this is one of those things where I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Cindie
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This is crazy talk, vesta.
Time to put you in the Crazy Box!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/conscave/dump_catsmob_dot_com_02775_014-vi_zps0e8c18d0.jpg)
Yup, Big Dog, this is such a crazy world perhaps I can hide and watch in a Crazy box.
I Big Dog never even met any kind of Gay person until I was in Nursing School at 28 years old. I was amazed at the life style and tried to understand them but had to give up after a year or so. Why and how had they come up to have the sexual life they had and then to question myself as to why I was never attracted to another female sexually. Interesting the male Gays but the Gay woman with children that hated men was another kettle of fish.
This was a long time ago, today I still don't understand any more then I could understand the problems of the crap my kids go through with their kids today. Lord help the next generation trying to raise kids in a world that will have progressed that far from mine as a child.
So back in the crazy box for me to sit, hide and watch, mutter to my self if I am still on the same planet I was born on and Wonder------What's the matter with kids today, why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way.
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I didn't think of any of those things. I had very little guidance growing up. As long as I stayed out of the way and didn't embarrass my mom in front of her friends, I was on my own. And I'd bet just about anything the sex between the two was consentual. I was that 15 year old (only not with a girl). Had my mom (or rather her friends) found out what I was doing and the crowd I was running with, she would have been embarrassed enough to care.
I knew the legal age for drinking and smoking, too. I just didn't care.
I knew drugs were illegal. I just didn't care.
I knew the age I would be old enough to move out. I ended up moving out when I turned 17.
I worked when I was a teen, it was probably the most responsible part of my life, but if I didn't, I wouldn't have a car, clothes, birth control or money for lunch.
I learned responsibility the hard way. We don't really know either of these girls' personal situations. Because of my own experiences, I guess I can understand the situation these girls found themselves in. And if the 15 year old is gay, she'll be gay when she's 18, too. And teens are hardly rational when they're young and in love. Walk in another person's shoes and all that.
It's kinda like understanding that the majority of prostitutes were molested. You can judge them and think they're going to hell, but at least you have an understanding of why that is. No one respected them, their body or their virginity when they were children, where are they supposed to learn to respect themselves.
But this is one of those things where I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Cindie
The minor was 14 at the time of the acts. If the people pushing this get their way, the age of consent laws will have been destroyed. Would it have been okay if the younger girl was 12 and the older 18? Would it have been okay if the older girl were 20? What's the difference?
Some people won't ever respect anybody else, they'll do what they want when they want to who they want. The only way to stop them is to put the dear of the Lord or the fear of the law into them. She is shortly going to learn she should have been afraid of the law.
I have been the eighteen year old guy. I had a real cute fourteen year old tell me that she was very interested when I gave her a ride home one day. I wouldn't even talk to ther after that, because I knew the law and what could happen, even if her parents approved of a relationship.
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The minor was 14 at the time of the acts. If the people pushing this get their way, the age of consent laws will have been destroyed. Would it have been okay if the younger girl was 12 and the older 18? Would it have been okay if the older girl were 20? What's the difference?
Some people won't ever respect anybody else, they'll do what they want when they want to who they want. The only way to stop them is to put the dear of the Lord or the fear of the law into them. She is shortly going to learn she should have been afraid of the law.
I have been the eighteen year old guy. I had a real cute fourteen year old tell me that she was very interested when I gave her a ride home one day. I wouldn't even talk to ther after that, because I knew the law and what could happen, even if her parents approved of a relationship.
When I got my first Bikini at 15 my dad raved at me that he after 22 years in the Navy knew how boys and men think. OK for me to wear the Bikini as under ware but in public a one piece swim suit preferably with a short skirt was acceptable.
In my day sex was not discussed in the home or at school much less the laws about when or where one could have sex.
To even imagine sex with the same sex was as foreign to us a Sushi or fried goat eyes.
These were the days when the sexes were divided, boys could not take Home EC or girls go into a Shop class. Girls who wanted to become Nurses became Candy Stripers to start off, the idea a boy wanted to become a nurse was unheard of. Girls who wanted to go into a shop class to become an auto mechanic were not allowed.
There were few people outside of the very rich that allowed the cross over from male jobs or female jobs. Few children were allowed to follow their dream and go into another sex claimed job.
Me, I wanted to drive the big earth moving machines, that sounded like more fun then working in an office. Today I have met 2 woman that work the huge cranes at ship yards and they had to fight tooth and nail for 15-20 years to get the job.
Life has sure changed in my time, darn I remember when Agnew resigned as vice president and Nixon also resigned. At that time with little kids I was not aware of the weird future or how to react to any kind of culture in the future that was in any way sexual and could involve MY children.
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When I got my first Bikini at 15 my dad raved at me that he after 22 years in the Navy knew how boys and men think. OK for me to wear the Bikini as under ware but in public a one piece swim suit preferably with a short skirt was acceptable.
In my day sex was not discussed in the home or at school much less the laws about when or where one could have sex.
To even imagine sex with the same sex was as foreign to us a Sushi or fried goat eyes.
These were the days when the sexes were divided, boys could not take Home EC or girls go into a Shop class. Girls who wanted to become Nurses became Candy Stripers to start off, the idea a boy wanted to become a nurse was unheard of. Girls who wanted to go into a shop class to become an auto mechanic were not allowed.
There were few people outside of the very rich that allowed the cross over from male jobs or female jobs. Few children were allowed to follow their dream and go into another sex claimed job.
Me, I wanted to drive the big earth moving machines, that sounded like more fun then working in an office. Today I have met 2 woman that work the huge cranes at ship yards and they had to fight tooth and nail for 15-20 years to get the job.
Life has sure changed in my time, darn I remember when Agnew resigned as vice president and Nixon also resigned. At that time with little kids I was not aware of the weird future or how to react to any kind of culture in the future that was in any way sexual and could involve MY children.
I'm a Dad with a ten year old that is probably going to be in the "Oh my Lord" category about the time she hits fifteen, I understand where you're dad was coming from and don't approve bikinis for my daughter either.
Things have changed a lot, some for the better. This whole sexualization that goes on with kids these days is just frightening and sick.