The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Archives => Politics => Election 2008 => Topic started by: miskie on June 10, 2008, 03:22:36 PM
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Ive spent sime time poking about on the web as people are up-in-arms over Obama's citizenship, and why he won't release his birth records blah blah blah.. Its funny how everyone went after McCain because he was born overseas on a military base, but not about the Barackstar!
Anyway -- Poking about and some accidental help from a DUer pointed me to this...
Obama's Birth record (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=Search&includedb=&lang=en&ti=&surname=Obama&stype=Exact&given=Barack&bplace=Hawaii&byear=1961&brange=0&dplace=&dyear=&drange=0&mplace=&myear=&mrange=0&father=&mother=&spouse=&skipdb=&period=All&submit.x=Search) Which is fine -- shows his birthdate, who his mom and dad are, everything is in order...
But this...
Barack's Mom. (http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=labron00&id=I103513)
Look at her birthday, then consider her age when Barack was born.-- 19 (though I could have sworn it was 16, but that doesn't matter here)
now consider this..
U.S. Citizenship by Birth or Through Parents
(http://immigration.findlaw.com/immigration/immigration-citizenship-naturalization/immigration-citizenship-naturalization-did-you-know(1).html)4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986
If, at the time of your birth, both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.
If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimation occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.
Read the line in red several times.. And let that sink in. All the crap about his name as 'Barry" and not Barack, his being Muslim, Anti-white, Michelle's mythical "whitey tape" all mean nothing compared to those red words.
So, what do you think ? And will anyone do anything about it ?
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Good question -- have you sent this to the press or the McCain campaign? or better yet, the clinton campaign...
I think I will cross-post it there...
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Good question -- have you sent this to the press or the McCain campaign? or better yet, the clinton campaign...
I think I will cross-post it there...
Ive not sent it anywhere yet -- I am hoping others here who know better that I can confirm or deny this before I make an Ass out of myself or CC -- I'm not an expert in these matters, but from what I see there is a MAJOR problem with Obama's candidacy.
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Good question -- have you sent this to the press or the McCain campaign? or better yet, the clinton campaign...
I think I will cross-post it there...
Ive not sent it anywhere yet -- I am hoping others here who know better that I can confirm or deny this before I make an Ass out of myself or CC -- I'm not an expert in these matters, but from what I see there is a MAJOR problem with Obama's candidacy.
Request an FOIA on his Citizenship Records first maybe?
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I've seen blurbs on this at a few other conservative blogs. Given that they gave McCain so much trouble over his birth, I would think this would be getting more play. Apparently the Obama campaign has refused to release his birth cert. and the state of Hawaii doesn't make such records public.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTgxZmIwNTg0OWVhMWJkODNmZjI4ZjY4Mjg2OWRmNzI=
Her age could easily by a mistake on the ancestry page. A certified copy would clear that up though. Something tells me that the Hillary campaign explored this when they were doing the proverbial poke through the Obama trash cans and they determined it lacking.
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I would have to say that this isn't somthing that is gonna gain ground. If I recall correctly, there are a number of things you have to do before you can legally become a Presidential candidate. I may be going out on a limb here, but I do believe that proving you where a US Citizen at birth would be one of those.
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I would have to say that this isn't somthing that is gonna gain ground. If I recall correctly, there are a number of things you have to do before you can legally become a Presidential candidate. I may be going out on a limb here, but I do believe that proving you where a US Citizen at birth would be one of those.
I agree completely -- this however is less a glaring omission, and more a technical foul. I dont think anyone actually considered his moms age at the time of his birth, But the law is the law.
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^totally agree djones. That would be so elementary and hard to overlook. They have been hyping Oooobama since his 2004 convention speech. No way this didn't get checked out.
And U.S. code says -
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html
I didn't wade through it to compare with the OP statement in red though.
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I've seen blurbs on this at a few other conservative blogs. Given that they gave McCain so much trouble over his birth, I would think this would be getting more play. Apparently the Obama campaign has refused to release his birth cert. and the state of Hawaii doesn't make such records public.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTgxZmIwNTg0OWVhMWJkODNmZjI4ZjY4Mjg2OWRmNzI=
Her age could easily by a mistake on the ancestry page. A certified copy would clear that up though. Something tells me that the Hillary campaign explored this when they were doing the proverbial poke through the Obama trash cans and they determined it lacking.
Im glad to see Im not the only one who noticed this :) I was getting a bit worried :p
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I'm glad this is coming up as a campaign issue again - I also think there's something off and I don't buy for a minute the argument that he won't and shouldn't release the birth records because he's afraid of identity theft - who in the HELL would use such a well-known but rare name as Barack Hussein Obama?
And I have heard there was a "Muhammed" in the birth name - also that his real first name could have been Hussein by the way Muslims traditionally name their eldest sons. Then I've also heard he wasn't even born here, but in Kenya. Yes, this is all just rumor, but he won't even try to address the issue like Juan did, he just runs to his pals in the MSM, crying unfairness.
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This is kinda getting off into conspiracy corner but Hillary didn't end her candidacy she just suspended it ?????
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This is kinda getting off into conspiracy corner but Hillary didn't end her candidacy she just suspended it ?????
Yes, and her supporters are raising holy hell about it, and Barack Hussein Obama is totally trashed by the lot of them - they think he's a sexist loser of a pig. I hope it's okay to throw up a link here:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/index.php
Read it, it's full of pissed-off soccer moms - some are going to Juan, others want her to run third party. There's several threads just like the OP:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=16046
They don't tolerate trolls, and I've never been a Hillary supporter, although I do like her better than him, but that's not saying much.
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I'm glad this is coming up as a campaign issue again - I also think there's something off and I don't buy for a minute the argument that he won't and shouldn't release the birth records because he's afraid of identity theft - who in the HELL would use such a well-known but rare name as Barack Hussein Obama?
And I have heard there was a "Muhammed" in the birth name - also that his real first name could have been Hussein by the way Muslims traditionally name their eldest sons. Then I've also heard he wasn't even born here, but in Kenya. Yes, this is all just rumor, but he won't even try to address the issue like Juan did, he just runs to his pals in the MSM, crying unfairness.
See, I don't think we will ever get an answer to any of that, and honestly, I suspect if any of that stuff was accurate it would have surfaced by now.
My interest is in knowing when Obama's mother was born. Thats all.
I suppose it would be a matter of attempting to gather the records from Kansas, I don't know if they have the same law involving that information as Hawaii, and if that law covers the deceased (She passed in '95, Ovarian Cancer.. RIP ) We know Obama's Birthday. We know what the law involving Natural Born citizenship was at the time of his birth (Once findlaw's data is verified) If she was too young at the time he was born, that would make him a Naturalized Citizen, and disqualify him for running for POTUS.
As I said earlier, this would be a technical foul, and if there is any meat to it, I would not be surprised to see something get quietly pushed through congress to 'correct' this oversight.
At the very worst, this info adds an air of illegitimacy to his campaign, without spreading lies. And that ain't bad.
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This is kinda getting off into conspiracy corner but Hillary didn't end her candidacy she just suspended it ?????
Yes, and her supporters are raising holy hell about it, and Barack Hussein Obama is totally trashed by the lot of them - they think he's a sexist loser of a pig. I hope it's okay to throw up a link here:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/index.php
Read it, it's full of pissed-off soccer moms - some are going to Juan, others want her to run third party. There's several threads just like the OP:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=16046
They don't tolerate trolls, and I've never been a Hillary supporter, although I do like her better than him, but that's not saying much.
A good chunk of those pissed off Hillary supporters will eventually get over their tantrum and fall in Behind the Barackstar, A good chunk of the pissed of Hillary supporters won't though. They will either stay home or pull the lever for McCain, Obama does have his work cut out for him. Especially since he got to calling people angry Backwoods ignorant gun totting religious freeks
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More research Done :
After doing alot more research into this issue ( See the original post ) Its not as simple as it looks -- BUT it does explain alot.
The Section 4 quote refers to Americans born outside of American soil, territorries, or military bases/locations , and it applied until 1986 when most age provisions were lifted. What I dont yet know is if the change in provisions were retroactive and ended up making Natural Born Citizens out of former Naturalized Citizens.
Upon Statehood, Hawaii gave Natural born status to all those born in Hawaii as far back as 1900.
So now, we are back to WHY Obama wont release his birth record.. All sensitive data could be Redacted (SSN, Home address etc.) and all the people would need to know is Name, Birthdate, and birth location (meaning state). If it turns out , for example, he was born on a cruise ship chartered from Hawaii outside of territorial waters, Section 4 applies.
Now for some Tinfoil conspiracy..
Is this what 'Passportgate' was really all about ? To get this dirt on Obama ? Or maybe Passportgate was a failed attempt to scrub/alter data ?
The truth is, we will never know.
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More research Done :
After doing alot more research into this issue ( See the original post ) Its not as simple as it looks -- BUT it does explain alot.
The Section 4 quote refers to Americans born outside of American soil, territorries, or military bases/locations , and it applied until 1986 when most age provisions were lifted. What I dont yet know is if the change in provisions were retroactive and ended up making Natural Born Citizens out of former Naturalized Citizens.
Upon Statehood, Hawaii gave Natural born status to all those born in Hawaii as far back as 1900.
So now, we are back to WHY Obama wont release his birth record.. All sensitive data could be Redacted (SSN, Home address etc.) and all the people would need to know is Name, Birthdate, and birth location (meaning state). If it turns out , for example, he was born on a cruise ship chartered from Hawaii outside of territorial waters, Section 4 applies.
Now for some Tinfoil conspiracy..
Is this what 'Passportgate' was really all about ? To get this dirt on Obama ? Or maybe Passportgate was a failed attempt to scrub/alter data ?
The truth is, we will never know.
I think Passportgate was a disinformstion ploy that backfired. Ya know smear yourself with some thing petty and irrelevant but its a smear all the same & blame it on the opposition. It wasn't suppose become known the guys were obama operatives.
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This is still a topic of speculation at the NRO:
Already the query about Barack Obama's birth certificate is being declared ipso facto evidence of "xenophobia" by those who see a "racist America." Well, I did grow up in a small town...
Hawaii's State Department of Health explains the policy on releasing vital records here. Unless you're a relative of Obama, your request will be denied.*
A few readers and other bloggers have wondered aloud what information possibly could be on the birth certificate that would make it worth keeping from the public. Beyond yesterday's (mostly unlikely) possibilities — a foreign birth, a different middle name, or a different first name at birth — there are a few others. (I have been unable to determine precisely what information was recorded on a birth certificate in the state of Hawaii in 1961; any reader insight would be appreciated. I would note that what kind of information was on other state's certificates isn't all that helpful.)
rest: link (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDJhNmI5MDIwMjYwMDI3ZTE5NjQ1YmYyOWM3Nzc1Mzk=)
He still refuses to answer any questions about this, but that's not going to work so well for him this time.
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There are two possibilities at play here. The first is Obama knows he's Ineligable to run & the BC would prove it. The second is the BC would validate Obamas citizenship but let the opposition fling mud and suspicion for awhile & at the oppertune moment authorize release of the BC.
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If there is nothing to hide, then I say come out with it. He's treading dangerously close to that arrogant line again. Heck, he stays straddled on it daily and jumps up and down whenever you point it out. Bottom line: people with nothing to hide have nothing to worry about. Like we've said here, it's doubtful that it contains any bombshell. He had to be vetted in the early stages and you can't tell me they overlooked any birth cert. snafu.
He's used the audacious approach thus far on lots of personal issues. I can't figure out why he doesn't on this one. His minions eat up that stuff.
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A bit of necro posting here, but that original link lies.
I've checked against several differant universities law wesbites, and they all state that the parent must spend that 5 years in the US after the age of 14. Meaning that with Obama's mother being 19 when he was born, he would have just barely met the legal requirements for US citizenship.
Now this doesn't answer why he's being as tight lipped about his birth certificate as Kerry was about his military documents, but this route is a dead end.
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A bit of necro posting here, but that original link lies.
I've checked against several differant universities law wesbites, and they all state that the parent must spend that 5 years in the US after the age of 14. Meaning that with Obama's mother being 19 when he was born, he would have just barely met the legal requirements for US citizenship.
Now this doesn't answer why he's being as tight lipped about his birth certificate as Kerry was about his military documents, but this route is a dead end.
She was born in November 1942, he was born in Aug 1961. She would have been short of 19 years by about 3 months.
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A bit of necro posting here, but that original link lies.
I've checked against several differant universities law wesbites, and they all state that the parent must spend that 5 years in the US after the age of 14. Meaning that with Obama's mother being 19 when he was born, he would have just barely met the legal requirements for US citizenship.
Now this doesn't answer why he's being as tight lipped about his birth certificate as Kerry was about his military documents, but this route is a dead end.
She was still 18 at the time he was born - she missed the boat by a few months even with the 16 to 14 correction. Even the very left leaning Wikipedia article concurs.
Ann Dunham - (B) November 29, 1942
Barack Obama (B) August 4, 1961
(both dates taken from their respective Wiki articles.)
Anyway, he would have had to have been born on or after 11-29 for your point to be valid.
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She was born in November 1942, he was born in Aug 1961. She would have been short of 19 years by about 3 months.
Heh - same post from you & I
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Heh - same post from you & I
Not sure if you have seen this or not :
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/12/obama-is-an-american-no-really/
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Not sure if you have seen this or not :
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/12/obama-is-an-american-no-really/
Ive read it - I just actually made a comment in another post that this election seems to be driving everyone to tinfoil conspiracies - Id like there to be some real meat in some of this rumor and innuendo, but I'm not holding my breath.
The flip side that works to Obama's advantage to stonewall any further debate on his origins is it divides our attention. IMO we should continue with ACORN, Ayers, vote fraud, and other bad associates of The Chosen One.
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Ive read it - I just actually made a comment in another post that this election seems to be driving everyone to tinfoil conspiracies - Id like there to be some real meat in some of this rumor and innuendo, but I'm not holding my breath.
The flip side that works to Obama's advantage to stonewall any further debate on his origins is it divides our attention. IMO we should continue with ACORN, Ayers, vote fraud, and other bad associates of The Chosen One.
You know, that is so true (dividing attention). I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out why he won't just produce a real birth certificate and it may be as simple as a diversionary tactic.... I feel so used! :censored: :evillaugh:
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I'm glad this is coming up as a campaign issue again - I also think there's something off and I don't buy for a minute the argument that he won't and shouldn't release the birth records because he's afraid of identity theft - who in the HELL would use such a well-known but rare name as Barack Hussein Obama?
And I have heard there was a "Muhammed" in the birth name - also that his real first name could have been Hussein by the way Muslims traditionally name their eldest sons. Then I've also heard he wasn't even born here, but in Kenya. Yes, this is all just rumor, but he won't even try to address the issue like Juan did, he just runs to his pals in the MSM, crying unfairness.
I thought mumma was 17 at birth, that was the crux of the Kenya thing, law forced under 18 parent to cede birthright to the other parent.
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It would be a good issue to bring up and prove if God forbid he wins the election. I think Biden is terrible, but not as frightening as Obama.