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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 27, 2013, 05:51:54 PM

Title: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 27, 2013, 05:51:54 PM
Quote
goodthanksandyou (93 posts)

What the holy ****??????

New medical insurance plan kicking in on May1.

$5,000 deductible.

I have to pay full retail price on prescriptions until the deductible is met. That's about $2,100 per month. After the deductible is met, you STILL have to pay full retail price unless you go to generic drugs. Even when you go on generics, which generally don't work as well for me, the maximum co-pay after you meet your deductible can be as high as $70 per script.
 
Maximum yearly cash outlay under this plan is $11,000 every year (including doctor and hospital visits) which I will certainly meet.
 
This has a very real possibility of bankrupting me.

Quote
Deep13 (36,798 posts)

1. Yeah, Obamacare is starting to look like it's going to suck for a lot of people.

Thanks Rs. for making this law impossible to fine-tune.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022576288
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: DLR Pyro on March 27, 2013, 05:52:49 PM
Quote
This has a very real possibility of bankrupting me.
:ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: JohnnyReb on March 27, 2013, 05:55:31 PM
Thanks Rs. for making this law impossible to fine-tune....fine-tune...to a DUmmie that means making it free.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Delmar on March 27, 2013, 05:59:51 PM
Quote
Deep13 (36,800 posts)
1. Yeah, Obamacare is starting to look like it's going to suck for a lot of people.


And nobody could've seen it coming.
 :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :ownit: :ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: BattleHymn on March 27, 2013, 06:03:01 PM
 :popcorn: :ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Dori on March 27, 2013, 06:07:01 PM
All I can say is.........Schadenfreude

 :tongue: :fuelfire:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: JohnnyReb on March 27, 2013, 06:09:04 PM
And nobody could've seen it coming.
 :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :ownit: :ownit:

Well, we had to pass it to find out what was in it.....and now that we're finding out little bits and pieces of what was in it.....the DUmmiesw don't like it... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Oh, I think I may have hurt myself.....that's OK Obamacare will pay for it.....right?
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Ballygrl on March 27, 2013, 06:20:38 PM
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj140/RepublicanandProud/Obamacare_zps62248322.jpg)

:ownit:

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/03/27/hhs-secretary-finally-admits-obamacare-is-raising-insurance-costs/

Sebelius: Yep, ObamaCare is raising insurance costs

Quote
A watershed moment in the ongoing disaster of ObamaCare, as Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius finally admits that health insurance premiums are rising because of the President’s health insurance takeover

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/study-health-overhaul-raise-claims-cost-32-pct-1

Study estimates Obamacare could raise individual claim costs 32 percent

(http://www.washingtonguardian.com/sites/default/files/styles/story-page/public/photos/2013/03/screen_shot_2013-03-26_at_10.35.54_pm.jpg)

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/26/seen-at-11-groups-of-adults-turn-to-cooperative-households-to-save-money/

Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Ballygrl on March 27, 2013, 06:26:57 PM
Quote
upaloopa (1,636 posts)
3. Do you work can you get a HSA

I have a health savings account along with a high deductable plan. My health savings account covers my meds and the cost goes to reduce my deductable. Also the money is tax free and if you don't use it it builds up

Quote
goodthanksandyou (95 posts)
4. I have an FSA I think it is called...

but the maximum contribution on that is $2,500 per year. I eat that up in about a month.

Quote
slackmaster (60,089 posts)
7. Yes, medical costs are going to be more expensive for everyone from now on but we'll make it up...

...in volume so there is really nothing to be concerned about.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: JohnnyReb on March 27, 2013, 06:29:44 PM


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/26/seen-at-11-groups-of-adults-turn-to-cooperative-households-to-save-money/



The next TV reality show, "Moonbats Cohabiting".....the objective is to see once one comes out alive.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Freeper on March 27, 2013, 06:30:52 PM
Quote
Deep13 (36,798 posts)

1. Yeah, Obamacare is starting to look like it's going to suck for a lot of people.

Thanks Rs. for making this law impossible to fine-tune.

Yep damn all those repukes who voted against it, it's their fault!

Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Freeper on March 27, 2013, 06:35:12 PM
Quote
Demo_Chris (1,751 posts)
10. And if they double the deductable and cost from there, and they eventually will...

You will still have to buy it. Because that's what Obamacare does.

The only mandate is on you. You have to buy it. No choice.

It doesn't matter what it costs...
It doesn't matter what it covers...
It doesn't matter what the co-pay is...
It doesn't matter how they treat you...
It doesn't matter if you cannot afford it...
It doesn't matter if they refuse to pay even a single claim...
It doesn't matter if you don't want to do business with these jackals...

You have to buy it or YOU are breaking the law.

If only someone would have warned the smartest people ever about this.
Oh wait we did, and we were called racist bigoted homophobes for our trouble.

You idiots can not blame this on the repukes, it was repealed by the house and saved by the senate. The senate lead by Harry Reid a democrat.
This is all on you fools and your desire for free health care.

:ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 27, 2013, 06:54:32 PM
Quote
This has a very real possibility of bankrupting me.

It was always supposed to. You and generations of children not yet born. Those, like you, stupid enough to want it as well as those like me who never wanted anything to do with such idiocy. This is what you Progressive-Fascists call 'egalitarianism.'

 :ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Ptarmigan on March 27, 2013, 06:56:53 PM
Uh gees. I thought you wanted it. You got what you wanted. Getting tired of this routine. So...........
:ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Carl on March 27, 2013, 07:12:58 PM
Is there a language they will understand to say...

You stupid,dumbass,fuking idiots  :banghead:

And a 13.9% decrease in NY?
Not in my world.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Dori on March 27, 2013, 07:18:23 PM
:

And a 13.9% decrease in NY?
Not in my world.

Good point.  The chart I saw there were no decreases.  All the states showed increases.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: WinOne4TheGipper on March 27, 2013, 07:30:25 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022576288

Words fail me.  Science taught me that this level of stupidity should be impossible to achieve. :banghead::banghead:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: thundley4 on March 27, 2013, 07:30:57 PM
Quote
goodthanksandyou (95 posts)
4. I have an FSA I think it is called...

but the maximum contribution on that is $2,500 per year. I eat that up in about a month.

Prior to ObamaCrap, FSA contributions were unlimited, but Obama needed that money to be taxed to pay for his plan, so he lowered the limit to $2500. Sucks to be you.

 :bwah:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Conservative Libertarian on March 27, 2013, 07:31:15 PM
This year they lowered the max FSA from $5,000 to $2,500. That was a huge tax increase because my wife has been in chemotherapy.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Ballygrl on March 27, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
Good point.  The chart I saw there were no decreases.  All the states showed increases.

Actually some states according to the chart are suppose to see decreases but that's only because they have things like pre-existing conditions still in place, no freaking way do I believe it though, we just got an almost 20% increase for our renewal, and we average anywhere from 8-16% increases every year. We're getting to the point where we can't afford it anymore.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: GOBUCKS on March 27, 2013, 07:44:43 PM
It isn't stupid or an oversight, it was precisely the democrat plan.

This system will increase costs until they are unbearable for tens of millions of people.

At that point, the democrats will be able force through a fully socialized system like Cuba or Britain.

That is the objective. This 0bamacare is just a temporary tool to reach the goal.

The huge increases in cost are exactly what was intended.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Carl on March 27, 2013, 07:51:09 PM
Actually some states according to the chart are suppose to see decreases but that's only because they have things like pre-existing conditions still in place, no freaking way do I believe it though, we just got an almost 20% increase for our renewal, and we average anywhere from 8-16% increases every year. We're getting to the point where we can't afford it anymore.

All I know is my rates have gone up double digits since O care and now my current plan is going to be garbage canned when it expires.
No idea what will or if anything will be a replacement.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: dixierose on March 27, 2013, 07:52:28 PM
It isn't stupid or an oversight, it was precisely the democrat plan.

This system will increase costs until they are unbearable for tens of millions of people.

At that point, the democrats will be able force through a fully socialized system like Cuba or Britain.

That is the objective. This 0bamacare is just a temporary tool to reach the goal.

The huge increases in cost are exactly what was intended.

^This
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: dixierose on March 27, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
It isn't stupid or an oversight, it was precisely the democrat plan.

This system will increase costs until they are unbearable for tens of millions of people.

At that point, the democrats will be able force through a fully socialized system like Cuba or Britain.

That is the objective. This 0bamacare is just a temporary tool to reach the goal.

The huge increases in cost are exactly what was intended.

I found this quote on another DUmmie thread on the subject.

Quote
Selatius (20,410 posts)
2. On the other hand, it might provide even more fuel for real, comprehensive health care reform.

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:27 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Because costs will skyrocket to the point where it would start crippling economic activity in general. People would be spending less on products and services because so much of their income is devoted to medical debt. At that point, the nation would be screaming for health care overhaul.

Here's the link to the other thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014436020

Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: thundley4 on March 27, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
It isn't stupid or an oversight, it was precisely the democrat plan.

This system will increase costs until they are unbearable for tens of millions of people.

At that point, the democrats will be able force through a fully socialized system like Cuba or Britain.

That is the objective. This 0bamacare is just a temporary tool to reach the goal.

The huge increases in cost are exactly what was intended.

And then  taxes will go up on everyone to the breaking point.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: dixierose on March 27, 2013, 08:29:12 PM
From yet another thread on this topic.

Quote
dawg (5,170 posts)
10.
But seriously, I agree with you. Everything that insurance does could be done much cheaper and fairer by the government. I am hoping that our society eventually figures that out. It will be a gradual process if it ever happens.

 :banghead:

Link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022574653
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Freeper on March 27, 2013, 08:31:12 PM
Quote
Selatius (20,410 posts)
2. On the other hand, it might provide even more fuel for real, comprehensive health care reform.

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:27 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Because costs will skyrocket to the point where it would start crippling economic activity in general. People would be spending less on products and services because so much of their income is devoted to medical debt. At that point, the nation would be screaming for health care overhaul.

And yet when I said that on Facebook a few months ago some lib told me I was a conspiracy theorist.

What amuse me, is the most bestest brightest people in the galaxy always seem to be way behind us knuckle dragging freepers. We all were discussing how 0bamacare is nothing but a scheme to push the country on to single payer, before the bill was passed. The whole idea was to make health care so horrible that the low information voters will be begging for the government to fix it and give us government health care.

I would warn them about the dangers of single payer, but they won't listen, just like they didn't for 0bamacare.

Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Freeper on March 27, 2013, 08:32:06 PM
From yet another thread on this topic.

 :banghead:

Link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022574653

Quick name the last government takeover of anything that resulted in fairer and cheaper service.

Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on March 27, 2013, 08:37:04 PM
Quote
This has a very real possibility of bankrupting me.

Well......well......well.......

says the guy in the corner who told you a loooong time ago about consequences.

Quote
Thanks Rs. for making this law impossible to fine-tune.

Explain that, helmet child.  How does that work?

Quote
Selatius (20,410 posts)
2. On the other hand, it might provide even more fuel for real, comprehensive health care reform.

Last edited Wed Mar 27, 2013, 12:27 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Because costs will skyrocket to the point where it would start crippling economic activity in general. People would be spending less on products and services because so much of their income is devoted to medical debt.


Uh-huh...and what were we telling you three and half years ago?

Quote
At that point, the nation would be screaming for health care overhaul  Obingacare repeal.

There.  Fixed.

Doesn't it suck when your entire worldview is coming crashing down around you and you don't even realize it?
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: GOBUCKS on March 27, 2013, 08:38:51 PM
Quick name the last government takeover of anything that resulted in fairer and cheaper service.


Hospitals will be operated on the Amtrak model.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Traveshamockery on March 27, 2013, 08:41:47 PM
The original post has been deleted.   :whistling:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 27, 2013, 08:42:58 PM
Hospitals will be operated on the Amtrak model.


(http://images.inmagine.com/img/iris/blendimagesrm-008/ptg00932059.jpg)

Outpatient Care



The original post has been deleted.   :whistling:

The Ministry of Truth strikes again.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on March 27, 2013, 08:45:23 PM
Hospitals will be operated on the Amtrak model.

Bar cars?

 :cheersmate:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Freeper on March 27, 2013, 08:49:19 PM
Hospitals will be operated on the Amtrak model.

Well it will be like getting hit by a train.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Gern on March 27, 2013, 08:54:49 PM

Pfhahaha!

 :ownit:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Zathras on March 27, 2013, 09:16:55 PM
All I can say is.........Schadenfreude

 :tongue: :fuelfire:

Why just say it when you can sing it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fzXL3uc1s
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Big Don on March 27, 2013, 09:20:03 PM
Quote
Even when you go on generics, which generally don't work as well for me
Because chemically identical drugs don't work without a brand name?!
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Dori on March 27, 2013, 09:23:53 PM
Why just say it when you can sing it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55fzXL3uc1s

that was funny.... :rofl:

Who is that group?
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Duke Nukum on March 27, 2013, 09:25:53 PM
that was funny.... :rofl:

Who is that group?

A Sesame Street parody show that runs in New York. Some cast members were on Greg Gutfeld's show several years ago.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Dori on March 27, 2013, 09:27:06 PM
A Sesame Street parody show that runs in New York. Some cast members were on Greg Gutfeld's show several years ago.

I like Gutfeld.   :-)
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: BEG on March 27, 2013, 09:38:52 PM
This year they lowered the max FSA from $5,000 to $2,500. That was a huge tax increase because my wife has been in chemotherapy.

I'm sorry CL. :(
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: BEG on March 27, 2013, 09:39:55 PM
I like Gutfeld.   :-)

I saw him first.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Dori on March 27, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
I saw him first.

He's probably too short for us?  :wink:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Chris_ on March 27, 2013, 09:51:29 PM
I'm sorry CL. :(
They = Obama.  The Obama administration did this so they could tax the "rich".
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: BEG on March 27, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
He's probably too short for us?  :wink:

That is what I'm told but I don't care. I'd do him.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: USA4ME on March 27, 2013, 10:09:34 PM
I would warn them about the dangers of single payer, but they won't listen, just like they didn't for 0bamacare.

I agree, but just for the record let's state it again on this thread.

Attn primitives:  National healthcare will mean you will be assigned a doctor, healthcare and medicines will be rationed more heavily than the insurance companies have ever done it, and the type of healthcare received by those who only receive the basic plan (IOW like Medicare you'll be able to buy up to better plans. Or at least we as conservatives will. You poor penniless schmucks will be stuck with the basics.) will have doctors offices and operation recovery rooms that make a filthy Texaco latrine look sanitary.

Welcome to what you wanted, though you'll complain about it just like you do everything else.

.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Chris_ on March 27, 2013, 10:12:51 PM
I agree, but just for the record let's state it again on this thread.

Attn primitives:  National healthcare will mean you will be assigned a doctor, healthcare and medicines will be rationed more heavily than the insurance companies have ever done it, and the type of healthcare received by those who only receive the basic plan (IOW like Medicare you'll be able to buy up to better plans. Or at least we as conservatives will. You poor penniless schmucks will be stuck with the basics.) will have doctors offices and operation recovery rooms that make a filthy Texaco latrine look sanitary.

Welcome to what you wanted, though you'll complain about it just like you do everything else.

.
We're already seeing it.  ObamaCare caps per-patient expenditures and penalizes doctors and hospitals that go over their "limit". 

It's here already.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Conservative Libertarian on March 27, 2013, 11:16:27 PM
I'm sorry CL. :(

The FSA is pre-tax income. It is lowers your AGI by that amount and you are taxed on less income. Her chemo treatments run $5-6K each before insurance. 0bama and his commie ilk ran with the ASSumption that anyone using an FSA is rich and needs to be punished. As if my wife hasn't been punished enough by her cancer.

If she had been diagnosed after 2014, we sould be making her funeral arrangements and opposed to slightly altered future plans.  People, like those that work at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, would be in position to automatically deny or delay every treatment.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on March 28, 2013, 12:05:49 AM
Because chemically identical drugs don't work without a brand name?!


(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4924803689089064&pid=1.7)

We're already seeing it.  ObamaCare caps per-patient expenditures and penalizes doctors and hospitals that go over their "limit". 

It's here already.

B-b-b-but, they've already posted wonderful tales of friends saved by Obingacare!!!111!!  For free!

Oh, wait....... :bouncy:
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: txradioguy on March 28, 2013, 03:36:32 AM
Quote
Deep13 (36,798 posts)

1. Yeah, Obamacare is starting to look like it's going to suck for a lot of people.

Thanks Rs. for making this law impossible to fine-tune.

Ummm...it wasn't the "R's" tht made the law inflecibile and "impossible".

Quote
WASHINGTON -- House and Senate Democrats intend to bypass traditional procedures when they negotiate a final compromise on health care legislation, officials said Monday, a move that will exclude Republican lawmakers and reduce their ability to delay or force politically troubling votes in both houses.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/04/democrats-plan-cut-gop-final-health-care-negotiations/

Kinda hard for Republicans to complicate something they had no hand in crafting.

Not that facts like that will stop the low information Libtards from blaming us anyway.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Karin on March 28, 2013, 08:56:31 AM
This guy has been beating the drum:

Quote
Response to Indykatie (Reply #13)
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 08:01 PM
Demo_Chris (1,768 posts)
17. There are lots of problems with this as well

There are going to be plenty of people who cannot afford to purchase one of these policies and yet will be unable to get a subsidy or qualify for medicare -- assuming they can find a provider that accepts medicare. Further, the dirt floor policies that everyone will eventually be forced to accept are going to have insane co-pays and deductibles that render the plan all but worthless. If you cannot afford the co-pay the money was wasted anyway.

 

As for the deletion, the OP deleted it himself.  WillPitt posted something, then deleted it.  So, OP says

Quote
Response to goodthanksandyou (Original post)
Wed Mar 27, 2013, 08:37 PM
goodthanksandyou (98 posts)
24. Thread deleted....see OP below.

I don't need people that I don't know rolling their eyes at me and then deleting their post. I'm having a hard enough time trying to deal with this ****ing bullshit. I'm not a rich guy, just kind of scraping by, and this insurance news was upsetting.

Of course it was upsetting, and Will Pitt is an asshole.  His family is loaded, he can afford anything.  Sucks to be you, though. 
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Conservative Libertarian on March 29, 2013, 04:57:44 AM
They = Obama.  The Obama administration did this so they could tax the "rich".

Agreed.

Rich = Anyone with a job that makes more than minimum wage.
Title: Re: ******* these f-ing Republicans and they're damned healthcare law!!!!
Post by: Zathras on March 29, 2013, 08:13:21 AM
that was funny.... :rofl:

Who is that group?

That was from the stage show "Avenue Q". It's a great show....I saw it when it came to San Jose a couple years ago and had a great time.

It's also where we learn just what the internet was made for....

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TA57L0kuc[/youtube]