The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Texacon on March 11, 2013, 11:46:33 AM
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022489260
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:23 PM
Star Member Stinky The Clown (50,287 posts)
This thread is about a dog that was once known as the Nanny Dog for its gentle nature.
The dog was once the gold standard for family pets. One was portrayed as "Petey" in The Little Rascals. The many individual animals who played him on film had a black circle painted around one eye. Another was known as Tige and was half of the boy/dog duo who were the face of Buster Brown shoes.
These dogs were the breed known widely at the time as the Nanny Dog. These dogs were routinely left to watch for children who might experience distress while sleeping. The dogs were known to alert Momma and Papa should Junior not be well.
No one feared their kids being attacked.
Fast forward to the last few decades.
That VERY SAME BREED is now seen as somehow inherently dangerous. Many jurisdictions are trying to ban them. Think about that. They are trying to ban a breed that, not long ago, certainly within the lifetimes of many of us, was called a Nanny Dog and entrusted with the care of children.
That dog, of course, is the American Bull Terrier. The "feared" "Pit Bull".
Why? What happened?
Bad breeding. Thugs. Intimidation. A desire to walk along with the baddest of the badass dogs on *your* leash, under *your* control. Breed them mean. Train them to fight. Abuse them.
These dogs don't hurt US. **WE** hurt *THEM*. WE threaten their existence. WE ****ed with their genes. WE bred mean dogs. WE trained them to bite and lock. WE DID THAT.
Shame on us.
This thread was inspired by multiple recent events:
My own state is considering legislation to declare the dogs inherently dangerous, to prohibit keeping them and to make those who do keep them (including landlords of houses and apartments where they're kept) responsible for damages and for punitive judgements based solely on the animal's breed.
There were two stories in the news of children attacked without provocation by family pet ABTs.
Our visit, just yesterday, to a local shelter to visit the dogs and give a few of them a few minutes outdoors, on a leash, but walking and getting scratched. One was a Pit Bull mix who, they say, will be very hard to adopt out. Fortunately, this is a 100% no kill shelter.
Anyway, I just had to vent.
I have no problem with these dogs, I just think it's strange they will call for the banning of an inanimate object yet weep over a ban on dogs that have been known to take things into their own ... paws, so to speak.
While I can leave my home knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt my guns will not go out and kill or injure someone can you say the same about your beloved pet?
RedstDem (599 posts)
4. It is pretty stupid to ban pit bulls, or any animal.
I can see only one instance to ban an animal, if that animal is an invasive species. that's it IMO.
a while ago ,my Aussie just about tore a pit bull apart, that easily had 20lbs on her.
the pit bull was just so docile, thru a normal upbringing, that it was a surprise to me.
thought when my Aussie went after the pit, I would be taking her away in pieces..
just goes to show, a weapon in one's hand, is not the same in all hands.....
Imagine that ...
New thread so there isn't much there but I'm sure it'll blossom.
KC
-
I've yet to see a firearm dig under a fence, then run around the neighborhood, shooting people.
StinkDUde is trying to be relevant again. :lmao:
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
The lion was too busy licking its' chops to comment.
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
How sad for the breed, but then some judge allowed Michel Vicks to own dogs again. :censored: :censored: :censored:
My homeowners policy will not allow some breeds of dogs, Rottweiler and pit bulls, also a few others that are thought to be vicious.------It was a few years after my Rotti died that on reading the policy I found out that for I for 8 years still paying for the insurance was totally unprotected by just having the dog.
Now how about landlords renting to well know Paedophiles or Rapists ???
A pit bull can grow to be 40 pounds or so but a grown human monster 5 times the size and they wander about with no supervision.
I would prefer a neighbor with 4 Pit Bulls to live next to me than someone with no dogs that moves in a criminal. Don't care what kind of criminal, maker of Meth, drug seller or a history of breaking and entering.
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
Pit Bulls are no more gentically pre-disposed to being a vicious animal than any other breed. The problem is that a bunch of malcontents decided to take these animals, basically traumautize them severely and not properly socialize them and then let the survivors breed in the hope of producing a meaner dog...which is about as stupid a way to breed as it sounds.
I've known some of these dogs to be really about the best representative of their species as there is.
-
Pit Bulls are no more gentically pre-disposed to being a vicious animal than any other breed. The problem is that a bunch of malcontents decided to take these animals, basically traumautize them severely and not properly socialize them and then let the survivors breed in the hope of producing a meaner dog...which is about as stupid a way to breed as it sounds.
I've known some of these dogs to be really about the best representative of their species as there is.
And that sounds exactly like every parent just before their toddler is torn to pieces by their gentle pet.
Hundreds of generations of selective breeding does have an effect, whether it's a pointer freezing at the scent of a gamebird, or a pit bull tearing apart other animals.
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
I wonder if it was the time of the month for the recently deceased?
I'm reminded of hippy that took his girlfriend to Alaska to live with the bears. When she had her period, they became lunch.
-
I always figured that was an Internet myth. She was in no condition for an autopsy.
It was a very interesting documentary, though. It's hard to believe there are people
that crazy until you see them.
-
Pit Bulls are no more gentically pre-disposed to being a vicious animal than any other breed. The problem is that a bunch of malcontents decided to take these animals, basically traumautize them severely and not properly socialize them and then let the survivors breed in the hope of producing a meaner dog...which is about as stupid a way to breed as it sounds.
I've known some of these dogs to be really about the best representative of their species as there is.
So have I. I have found Pit mixes to be some of the most empathic and loyal dogs around. It's the upbringing and interaction (lack thereof) that will determine a dogs temperament.
-
I wonder if it was the time of the month for the recently deceased?
I'm reminded of hippy that took his girlfriend to Alaska to live with the bears. When she had her period, they became lunch.
(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4892368119007399&pid=1.7)
-
And that sounds exactly like every parent just before their toddler is torn to pieces by their gentle pet.
Hundreds of generations of selective breeding does have an effect, whether it's a pointer freezing at the scent of a gamebird, or a pit bull tearing apart other animals.
They haven't been bred for hundreds of generations to "tear apart other animals". The fact is that German Shepherds and Doberman Pinschers were preferred as fighting dogs as recently as the early 1990s. It has always involved the same pattern necessary to produce dangerous animals of these breeds. That is the animal is not socialized with other dogs and humans, is in no degree trained, and is abused to the point that it will attack other animals because that is what it has been conditioned to do to receive food.
Doberman Pinschers generally have an extremely playful personality. German Shepherds are a bit more businesslike. Either breed that is trained and socialized properly is a safe breed. They both have fearsome reputations, but people don't try to ban them.
The American Bull Terrier is a strong, smart dog that is naturally eager to please. If it is trained properly, it's the kind of companion that dog lovers dream about having. The poodle is more dangerous than the American Bull Terrier. All dogs have to be handled with caution and they all have to be taught who is the "alpha dog" and that has to be reinforced daily.
I can teach an average dog two tricks in about an hour. It's more than can be said for the average human.
-
They haven't been bred for hundreds of generations to "tear apart other animals". The fact is that German Shepherds and Doberman Pinschers were preferred as fighting dogs as recently as the early 1990s. It has always involved the same pattern necessary to produce dangerous animals of these breeds. That is the animal is not socialized with other dogs and humans, is in no degree trained, and is abused to the point that it will attack other animals because that is what it has been conditioned to do to receive food.
Doberman Pinschers generally have an extremely playful personality. German Shepherds are a bit more businesslike. Either breed that is trained and socialized properly is a safe breed. They both have fearsome reputations, but people don't try to ban them.
The American Bull Terrier is a strong, smart dog that is naturally eager to please. If it is trained properly, it's the kind of companion that dog lovers dream about having. The poodle is more dangerous than the American Bull Terrier. All dogs have to be handled with caution and they all have to be taught who is the "alpha dog" and that has to be reinforced daily.
I can teach an average dog two tricks in about an hour. It's more than can be said for the average human.
There's females/males/its at the DUmp that can do more than two tricks in an hour.
-
Dogs are about the most genetically malleable species around. It only take a few breeding cycles to change everything about one - So, since people wanted badass pitbulls, they bred the most ill-tempered ones they could find to make the species into what it is today.
Of course, the opposite could be accomplished as well, but for now many of the Pitbulls bred in the United States are bred to be dangerous. So a ban makes sense. In the '70s it was the Doberman. In the '80s it was the German Shepard. And I'm certain it will be something else in the future.
edit : Nadinesque spelling error.
-
The nuts who defend pit bulls remind me of that idiot girl in California who just got eaten by a lion.
He's so gentle! His loving, gentle upbringing has offset his genetic disposition toward savagery.
See how sweet and gentle he is? I would trust him with my child or with my own li........
My cousin's dog is half pit bull, and it is one of the most gentle dogs I know. However, my cousins live in the country, and their dog has also taken on strange dogs that came into the yard, especially if the kids are out. Training and socialization are the key elements in the behavior of any dog.
-
Sorry ahead of time for going all Vesta here but this is something I feel kind of strongly about. :thatsright:
Breed bans hurt more than just those breeds. Any dog that even resembles what could be a pit mix can get caught up in the net. I have seen it happen in the liberal haven of PG county, MD. Nice boxer mix at the shelter there was put down because she looked like she could be a pit mix even though she obviously was not. She looked like a boxer with longer hair.
We can thank the worship of the so called 'thug culture' for quite a bit of this. Any dog can be a problem. My cousin was mauled and required hundreds of stitches in her face and head because of a golden retriever. She was 5 at the time. Well bred and socialized PBT are not bad dogs. But those who are into nefarious dealings in the first place breed/teach them to be overly aggressive and have ruined the reputation of the breed. They need early socializing and training by someone who knows dogs and the breed. I remember what the shelters looked like after Babe and 101 Dalmatians came out. Tons of Border Collies and Dalmatians were surrendered because people got them because of a movie and had no clue about the breed. Good dogs that were in the wrong situations.
-
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/404778_2948424424323_605761103_n.jpg)
That's a pitbull I'm using as a pillow. She would also sneak her way into your lap. And no, not my dog, was the neighbor's, she just loved everyone.
Dogs will do what you train them to do. Period. Train them to fight, they'll fight. Train them to herd animals, they'll herd. Train them to hunt, they'll hunt. It's people who screw them over by mistreating them, not the dog itself.
-
Doberman Pinschers generally have an extremely playful personality. German Shepherds are a bit more businesslike. Either breed that is trained and socialized properly is a safe breed. They both have fearsome reputations, but people don't try to ban them.
I had a Doberman who rode with me on the job. I adopted Zeus from a farm family who had adopted him as a pup. He was a cropped black-and-tan, with a sweet and fun-loving disposition. He wore a sheriff's star on his collar.
Zeus only bit one person in all the years he was with me- and that was me. I excused that bite, as my house was on fire at the time and he was scared.
Zeus had one weapon in his arsenal- chemical warfare. No matter what I fed him, that dog had the worst farts. I was forced to drive with my window down, even during a blizzard. He was known as "Zeus the Farting Dog" all over the county. Our associate circuit court judge once laughed at a suspect who accused Zeus of being a vicious animal. :-)
-
I had a Doberman who rode with me on the job. I adopted Zeus from a farm family who had adopted him as a pup. He was a cropped black-and-tan, with a sweet and fun-loving disposition. He wore a sheriff's star on his collar.
Zeus only bit one person in all the years he was with me- and that was me. I excused that bite, as my house was on fire at the time and he was scared.
Zeus had one weapon in his arsenal- chemical warfare. No matter what I fed him, that dog had the worst farts. I was forced to drive with my window down, even during a blizzard. He was known as "Zeus the Farting Dog" all over the county. Our associate circuit court judge once laughed at a suspect who accused Zeus of being a vicious animal. :-)
My last three Dogs have been Terriers, and Doberman's are terriers. Mine are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I have Yorkies.
Still, they love to dig. Their paws smell like dirt and their nose is always on/in the ground.
-
I am biased. I have been attacked by 3 different pits, at 3 different times of my life, once at 12, once at 28, and once at 40. I don't care for them. I don't wish them dead, but I don't like them.
-
I am biased. I have been attacked by 3 different pits, at 3 different times of my life, once at 12, once at 28, and once at 40. I don't care for them. I don't wish them dead, but I don't like them.
I don't like the government banning them, but I'll never leave my children alone with one--nothing against those who love the breed.
-
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/404778_2948424424323_605761103_n.jpg)
That's a pitbull I'm using as a pillow. She would also sneak her way into your lap. And no, not my dog, was the neighbor's, she just loved everyone.
Dogs will do what you train them to do. Period. Train them to fight, they'll fight. Train them to herd animals, they'll herd. Train them to hunt, they'll hunt. It's people who screw them over by mistreating them, not the dog itself.
Thinking about this, as some are born with a personality disorder, so may animals also. Then there is the wiring of the brain that can lead to subconscious reactions that people or animals have, the fight or flight responce.
I have some knowledge of pound puppy's of different breeds. The biggest bitters are the little guys and gals that are 18 months +. The big fellows are easier for me to watch and note their reactions to sudden loud noises, and strangers.
A 3 pound Taco Bell dog growl at the mail man and everyone laughs, be this a 30 pound Pitt bull, no one laughs, this can be dangerous.
Doc the picture of you and the neighbors pit bull says it all for me.
Dogs at 3 pounds to 200 pounds need to be trained and make sure they know you, family and friends are the Alpha in the group.
A small dog needs just as much training as a big brute if not more. It is like having a 2 year old child allowing them to do as they please. More little guys slip between our legs and get out to be killed in traffic then the big guys. Somebody left the gate open.-------Clinton's first dog, Buddy was dispatched that way.
Obamas dog BO needs more training, but he still gets on our dime a motorcade and protection when he is taken to Pets R Us.
Train, train, train the little ones for their sake. A big dog we watch but the tiny ones -------Anyone remember Jane Mansfield and her love of the Taco Bell dogs ?????? Story went that she would stuff a few inside her bosom to pop out at odd times.
-
Thinking about this, as some are born with a personality disorder, so may animals also. Then there is the wiring of the brain that can lead to subconscious reactions that people or animals have, the fight or flight responce.
I have some knowledge of pound puppy's of different breeds. The biggest bitters are the little guys and gals that are 18 months +. The big fellows are easier for me to watch and note their reactions to sudden loud noises, and strangers.
A 3 pound Taco Bell dog growl at the mail man and everyone laughs, be this a 30 pound Pitt bull, no one laughs, this can be dangerous.
Doc the picture of you and the neighbors pit bull says it all for me.
Dogs at 3 pounds to 200 pounds need to be trained and make sure they know you, family and friends are the Alpha in the group.
A small dog needs just as much training as a big brute if not more. It is like having a 2 year old child allowing them to do as they please. More little guys slip between our legs and get out to be killed in traffic then the big guys. Somebody left the gate open.-------Clinton's first dog, Buddy was dispatched that way.
Obamas dog BO needs more training, but he still gets on our dime a motorcade and protection when he is taken to Pets R Us.
Train, train, train the little ones for their sake. A big dog we watch but the tiny ones -------Anyone remember Jane Mansfield and her love of the Taco Bell dogs ?????? Story went that she would stuff a few inside her bosom to pop out at odd times.
H5 for a coherent thought
-
I grew up with Dobermans. Great family dogs and very protective. They can also be mean without proper training. But I think it's a shame Pit Bulls have been bred to be vicious fighting dogs. Put the breeders and owners in jail, not the dog. A fighting dog can be gentled and learn to trust humans, though I don't know that I'd take one of them if I had children at home because a dog that's been treated badly will always have a problem with trust. If you get one from a reputable breeder it's no different than getting any other breed. Bull dogs get a hold of something and won't let go, but they're relatively stupid.
I have Australian Cattle Dogs. ACD's are the most butt-headed, head strong breed I've ever met. And they're tenacious, they'll go until they drop. They're a mixture of a few different breeds. At one time they were crossed with Bull Terriers. Their foundation breed is Dingo. You can see it strongly in their features...face & body type. These are wild dogs with an extremely strong prey instinct and in Australia they're a huge problem for ranchers because they attack their sheep.
They're extremely leery of strangers. Extremely! Because they're fiercely loyal to their family (in true working dogs their family includes their herd), I have to let them know a stranger is okay before they accept them, except for children, who they tend to instinctually protect. If not trained properly, they'll kill every chicken in the yard because their prey instinct is also what makes them good herders. For the first several months of their lives, they're on a rope tied to my belt loop and they're gradually given more and more rope. But watching them herd my goats, even after all these years, is just amazing. They're perfect for goats because goats tend to be as stubborn as they are and ACD's instinctually crouch low to the ground when a goat tries to butt or kick them. I say "herd home" and have to do nothing more than close the gait once they're in. Yet, without proper, continuous and intense training they have the potential to be as mean as an inbred, badly treated Pit. Yet, I still count on their prey instinct to chase wild turkeys, raccoons and other vermin.
Domino, below, was my hardest dog to train, but she's now my best worker. The smarter a dog (or breed) is, the harder they are to train because they think for themselves. I think this is probably true for Pit Bulls too. I have an ACD/Aussie mix that's almost 2, but during chick, duck & goose hatching season I still have to keep Zoe close to me and in control because she'll play with the babies until somebody dies. While I've seen a mother hen chase a hawk away, she's still no match for a dog. But, the Aussie in her makes her gentler with the herd and she's the perfect header. Training, training, training, treating them with respect and genuine love and affection is what matters, nothing more.
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m613/HighMaintenanceFarmWife/Farm%20Living/DominoandAshleyJune.jpg)
-
Seem every time I hear people talking about how sweet and loving pit bulls are, it's right after yet another toddler has been mutilated.
Whether he attacks or not, the genes are in there, intensified by generation after generation after generation of selective breeding.
Until recently, the only objective of pit bull breeders was savagery. Even today, dozens of underground breeders are doing the same thing, producing hundreds of puppies every year, with the excess going to the pet market.
You don't have to nadin very hard to find them.
I used to hunt with a man who bred fighting pit bulls for over thirty years. At the time, the fights were legal. The sport was kept in shadows because the gambling was illegal, and gambling is the only purpose of dog fights.
You just hope the trait that was the goal of all those breeders doesn't surface, or that if it does a child isn't around.
-
Yes, what you have to do is to breed the visciousness out of these dogs and that can be accomplished without having owning the breed banned. What I found strange is that StinkyTheClown is bragging that the pit bull was once known as the Nanny dog yet his nanny state (MD) is trying to outlaw them.
-
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:23 PM
Star Member Stinky The Clown (50,287 posts)
Bad breeding. Thugs. Intimidation. A desire to walk along with the baddest of the badass dogs on *your* leash, under *your* control. Breed them mean. Train them to fight. Abuse them.
Another product of liberal society...
Maybe we should be more worried about the breeding habits of liberals. If we can correct that, maybe the dogs can be saved. :fuelfire: :-)
-
Seem every time I hear people talking about how sweet and loving pit bulls are, it's right after yet another toddler has been mutilated.
Whether he attacks or not, the genes are in there, intensified by generation after generation after generation of selective breeding.
Until recently, the only objective of pit bull breeders was savagery. Even today, dozens of underground breeders are doing the same thing, producing hundreds of puppies every year, with the excess going to the pet market.
You don't have to nadin very hard to find them.
I used to hunt with a man who bred fighting pit bulls for over thirty years. At the time, the fights were legal. The sport was kept in shadows because the gambling was illegal, and gambling is the only purpose of dog fights.
You just hope the trait that was the goal of all those breeders doesn't surface, or that if it does a child isn't around.
[ Quote]--------I used to hunt with a man who bred fighting pit bulls for over thirty years. At the time, the fights were legal. The sport was kept in shadows because the gambling was illegal, and gambling is the only purpose of dog fights.
You just hope the trait that was the goal of all those breeders doesn't surface, or that if it does a child isn't around.
I believe I would be more frightened of your hunting partner then his dogs. What kind of human can spend 30 years breeding fighting dogs only to see them torn to pieces for money and amusement of what must be very sick individuals.?????
In Northern N. Carolina I took my dog to be neutered to a vet and his helper a young girl was on her last few days of work. She had wanted to become a Vet. herself but as she told me she was going into the Police to hopefully get on the Vice Squad to help shut down the dog fighters in the state, or any state.
She had worked as a Vet Assistant for over a year and had in 12 short months seen and heard enough to go on a crusader against the industry.
Industry it is from the Promoters, the crooked Vets, the cops on the take, Judges and DA's, she was heartbroken at the carnage she had seen.